Comparing 2008 Packers Roster vs 2023 Packers Roster

[OldSchool101]

The REAL problem with Burks is we should've drafted Cunningham

We traded a 4th and 5th Rounder to move up to #88. That tells me we likely had him as an earlier 3rd rounder. I still think we tried too hard to mold him into a LB. He was really a Big Safety there at Vanderbilt, where he could use his speed and athleticism keeping things in front of him Vs relying on slower instincts.
I always saw him as a Safety anyway and it showed up on ST coverage units, where he was pretty good coming downhill from afar. Burks still outdid Amari Rodgers (#85 overall) who was drafted similar area, whereas Amari was a detriment on ST. When you’re top 100 and you can’t even excel at ST that’s not good.

Are you talking about Zach
Cunningham from Vanderbilt? If so. Good LB, although He was a year earlier and Round sooner. He’s expected to be a good iLB at #57 overall

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

We traded a 4th and 5th Rounder to move up to #88. That tells me we likely had him as an earlier 3rd rounder. I still think we tried to hard to mold him into a LB. He was really a Big Safety where he could use his speed and athleticism keeping things in front of him. I always saw him as a Safety.

Cunningham was a FREAK...and ended up a starter something Burks really didn't do

 

[mradtke66]

I'm on Tyni's side on Harrell, and I'll go a step further. Ted had NO BUSINESS making him a #1 because didn't he have injury issues at UT as well?

Meh, I think it was overblown. He had a ruptured bicep his senior year, if I recall correctly. Never had back or lower body issues in college. Then ruptured a disc (going from memory, damn, that was a long time ago!) lifting weights. Back injuries aren't kind to anyone, least of all big men in the 300 pound-plus range.

Honestly read good things about his last training camp with us (Capers' first or second season as DC) and he looked great as a 5T DE. Made it out of training camp healthy...and the pulled his ACL blocking for a field goal. Not a defensive play, one of the linemen blocking for Crosby.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have a hard time holding anything against Sherrod, Murphy, and even Harrell.

Wasn't Sherrod's fault he got blindsided and then had some of the worst luck getting surgery.

How can you blame Murphy get literally breaking his neck on a kick off?

Harrell's back injury, which is what ended his career, was caused in the weight room. I remember hearing rumors ( I cannot find the link anymore ) that the injury was caused by the SAC coach. Interestingly, said SAC coach got fired.

I guess really it all depends on how you want to define "bust" and the things you include or don't include in that definition. I also wouldn't necessarily attach a "fault" label with the definition, but use the reasons the pick was a bust, as footnotes. Perhaps a career ending injury prevented them from ever playing, not their fault, but since the Packers got nothing, after investing something (draft pick and money), I would contend those picks busted out.

I view Henry Ruggs as a total bust for the Raiders, some may say "had he not driven that car at high speeds, he would have been a great player." Right, but he didn't and he wasn't. Yes, he put himself in that position, but he also could have been in an accident that wasn't his fault, yet it took away his ability to ever play again.

 

[mradtke66]

I guess really it all depends on how you want to define "bust" and the things you include or don't include in that definition. I also wouldn't necessarily attach a "fault" label with the definition, but use the reasons the pick was a bust, as footnotes. Perhaps a career ending injury prevented them from ever playing, not their fault, but since the Packers got nothing, after investing something (draft pick and money), I would contend those picks busted out.

I view Henry Ruggs as a total bust for the Raiders, some may say "had he not driven that car at high speeds, he would have been a great player." Right, but he didn't and he wasn't. Yes, he put himself in that position, but he also could have been in an accident that wasn't his fault, yet it took away his ability to ever play again.

To be, a bust has a connotation of fault. Ruggs and Russel fall into that camp. One made a horrible decision, one wouldn't work. Jamal Reynolds would be a bust on the GM side--undersized, didn't fit the scheme, just generally washed out, but nothing obviously wrong with the person. The term is harsh, so I want it reserved for obvious screwups. Players getting hurt is just life, not a mistake.

You can do everything right and still lose.

 

[tynimiller]

To be, a bust has a connotation of fault. Ruggs and Russel fall into that camp. One made a horrible decision, one wouldn't work. Jamal Reynolds would be a bust on the GM side--undersized, didn't fit the scheme, just generally washed out, but nothing obviously wrong with the person. The term is harsh, so I want it reserved for obvious screwups. Players getting hurt is just life, not a mistake.

You can do everything right and still lose.

To be a bust - is a multi-faceted answer.

What did the team invest or spend to get you?
Did you provide any return at all?
What was the general concensus about the prospects NFL future?

Some of those things are simply out of the prospects control and some are...fact is you spend Day 1 asset and get "nothing" sadly means you were a busted investment. Doesn't mean it was a bad pick or anything like that.

 

[AmishMafia]

I guess really it all depends on how you want to define "bust" and the things you include or don't include in that definition. I also wouldn't necessarily attach a "fault" label with the definition, but use the reasons the pick was a bust, as footnotes. Perhaps a career ending injury prevented them from ever playing, not their fault, but since the Packers got nothing, after investing something (draft pick and money), I would contend those picks busted out.

I view Henry Ruggs as a total bust for the Raiders, some may say "had he not driven that car at high speeds, he would have been a great player." Right, but he didn't and he wasn't. Yes, he put himself in that position, but he also could have been in an accident that wasn't his fault, yet it took away his ability to ever play again.

By all accounts, Ruggs was a very decent guy with no character concerns coming out of college. At least I couldn't find any. I recall at the time of the accident teammates saying the behavior was out of character. So, you can call the pick a bust, but I couldn't hold it against the GM. How was he to anticipate that event? Ruggs was looking like he could really impact games. And for the record, I didn't think much of Mayock as a GM.

I dont even hold the Harrell pick against Wolf. Sure he was injured in college. But man, was he Explosive! No injury history and he is long gone by our pick. So, in a poor draft year, why not grab a guy who has HOF potential rather than hope to get an average starter? It's a no brainer to take that risk in that situation.

Look at the 2007 draft. There were just a few really good players after Harrell, but a bunch of average to below average guys.

 

[OldSchool101]

To be a bust - is a multi-faceted answer.

What did the team invest or spend to get you?
Did you provide any return at all?
What was the general concensus about the prospects NFL future?

Some of those things are simply out of the prospects control and some are...fact is you spend Day 1 asset and get "nothing" sadly means you were a busted investment. Doesn't mean it was a bad pick or anything like that.

It’s a good point. I’d be willing to bet if we each defined what a “BUST” is to us personally? We’d have 143 different individual answers

 

[tynimiller]

It’s a good point. I’d be willing to bet if we reached defined what a busy is to us? We’d have 143 different answers

Exactly. That all said however, I bet you poll 100 Packer fans to build a list of 10 to 15 guys to put on the list over the last 20 years...I bet you would get nearly a 90% or better agreement on who it is. Especially if you said have to be a top 100 pick or 3rd or higher.

 

[OldSchool101]

Exactly. That all said however, I bet you poll 100 Packer fans to build a list of 10 to 15 guys to put on the list over the last 20 years...I bet you would get nearly a 90% or better agreement on who it is. Especially if you said have to be a top 100 pick or 3rd or higher.

Yeah. Because we basically lived with these busts for a few years. It was like the Bad Roomate you couldn’t ditch!

We all have our favorite.

Spriggs really disappointed for a guy we traded up for in Round 2. Although he was oft injured too.

Quinten Rollins. What the hell it’s like he got worse with experience

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like I said, the term "bust", means different things to different people. For me it all comes down to what resources were invested into a player by a team VS what the team gets back from said player.

I get people saying "oh but he got injured, it wasn't his fault." Right, he did, but was the injury due to something the player did or didn't do? Maybe he lacked good conditioning and/or stretching? Bad diet? Bad technique, etc. Maybe just an accident/tough break. Bottom line, the teams return on their investment declined.

Do you give a player a pass when he mentally isn't as focused as he should be? How do you tell when a player checks out or gives less than he should? Is a lack of effort and dedication an "injury"? Is a persons brain not fully functioning the same as a guy that is 100% all in all the time?

Lots of things to look at when fully evaluating a player over his career. Some of it is obvious, some not. Some of it is measurable, some not. So yeah, dice up what the meaning of "bust" is for you, but I bet the fan sitting next to you might have a different opinion.

Tony Mandarich was a huge bust, but I put that more on the Packers for not doing their homework before drafting the guy.

 

[OldSchool101]

Like I said, the term "bust", means different things to different people. For me it all comes down to what resources were invested into a player by a team VS what the team gets back from said player.

I get people saying "oh but he got injured, it wasn't his fault." Right, he did, but was the injury due to something the player did or didn't do? Maybe he lacked good conditioning and/or stretching? Bad diet? Bad technique, etc. Maybe just an accident/tough break. Bottom line, the teams return on their investment declined.

Do you give a player a pass when he mentally isn't as focused as he should be? How do you tell when a player checks out or gives less than he should? Is a lack of effort and dedication an "injury"? It's a persons brain not fully functioning the same as a guy that is 100% all in all the time.

Lots of things to look at when fully evaluating a player over his career. Some of it is obvious, some not. Some of it is measurable, some not. So yeah, dice up what the meaning of "bust" is for you, but I bet the fan sitting next to you might have a different opinion.

Tony Mandarich was a huge bust, but I put that more on the Packers for not doing their homework before drafting the guy.

This reminded me also of players getting put out of position or poor scheme utilization. Yes, they are still busts, but I sometimes wonder if theres a few where coaching was the real bust.

On that same note we’ve walked DB’s and then they go on to Lucrative or high production careers elsewhere. That’s another matter but it feels good to complain!

 

[AmishMafia]

Mandarich was a huge bust. PEDs were in their infancy and not understood completely.

This reminded me also of players getting put out of position or poor scheme utilization. Yes, they are still busts, but I sometimes wonder if theres a few where coaching was the real bust.

On that same note we’ve walked DB’s and then they go on to Lucrative or high production careers elsewhere. That’s another matter but it feels good to complain!

Coaching is huge. 15 players in the HOF or all pro on a team that only won 1 game for the last place Packers. Had Lomabardi not come to town, most would be forgotten or be considered busts.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This reminded me also of players getting put out of position or poor scheme utilization. Yes, they are still busts, but I sometimes wonder if theres a few where coaching was the real bust.

Agree and that one is somewhat easy to follow.

I think Damarious Randall is a good example to use of playing a guy out of position, coaching and player psyche. Randall played safety at Arizona State, but TT saw a guy he felt would excel at CB, so he drafted him in the first round. Randall had his moments playing CB in GB, but ultimately wasn't consistent enough and the Packers moved on by trading him to the Browns for DeShone Kizer. The Browns moved him back to Free Safety and initially it looked like a smart move. Randall appeared to be a better S than a CB in the NFL. Not sure if success went to his head (we all saw his personality when at GB), but he flamed out a few years later. So one would have to ask, was it playing out of position, coaching or Randall himself, that was the reason he had such a short career? I would view him as a small bust for the Packers. High draft pick, had his moments, but all and all, not a good return on their investment.

 

[tynimiller]

My problem with your theory of secretly wanting Love to fail is then they are not really Packer fans.

I had this thought cross my mind when I had an exchange with a couple lifelong Packer fans…one was my age mid 30s other in 50s.

BOTH so vehemently despise how Gute has operated and Rodgers forced out in their opinion that they want the whole franchise to do autrocious and force Gute/Murphy/MLF out of town and hit reset.

Now it is the extreme for sure, but it is exchanges like this or similar but massively less severe that make the claim that these type of fans existing actually be true - they do exist and some are truly Packer fans.

However, yes there are tons of lukewarm Packer fans at best that I try to ignore. These types are usually easy to spot however in my experience.

 

[tynimiller]

Agree and that one is somewhat easy to follow.

I think Damarious Randall is a good example to use of playing a guy out of position, coaching and player psyche. Randall played safety at Arizona State, but TT saw a guy he felt would excel at CB, so he drafted him in the first round. Randall had his moments playing CB in GB, but ultimately wasn't consistent enough and the Packers moved on by trading him to the Browns for DeShone Kizer. The Browns moved him back to Free Safety and initially it looked like a smart move. Randall appeared to be a better S than a CB in the NFL. Not sure if success went to his head (we all saw his personality when at GB), but he flamed out a few years later. So one would have to ask, was it playing out of position, coaching or Randall himself, that was the reason he had such a short career? I would view him as a small bust for the Packers. High draft pick, had his moments, but all and all, not a good return on their investment.

If Randall had been even a second round pick he may not have made my top ten, had he been a third he wouldn’t have been even considered

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Randall had been even a second round pick he may not have made my top ten, had he been a third he wouldn’t have been even considered

Agree. I think he was his own demise, but being moved to CB didn't help.

There was what, a 5 year or so period, that TT and the Packers really struck out with drafting DB's. First was Ha-Ha (2014 Pick #21), then Randall (#30) and Rollins (#62) both in 2015. Then Kevin King (#33) and Josh Jones (#61) in 2017. Finally, Josh Jackson (#45) in 2018. Jackson was a Gute pick, but he also selected Alexander (#18) that year, so it balanced out a bit.

As you alluded to with Randall, some of those guys contributed, but were way too inconsistent, given where they were drafted. I still contend that those 5 years, of 6 high investments in DB's, were ultimately what drained the WR and TE rooms, amongst other positions (ILB, OLB, OL). In doing so, TT's misses cost the team quite a bit over his final years and into Gute's rein. Fortunately, the Packers were able to maintain a pretty decent OL, by having mid to late round guys return more on what was invested. They also had an aging Clay Matthews and Julius Peppers play well at OLB, just no depth to speak of behind them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My problem with your theory of secretly wanting Love to fail is then they are not really Packer fans.

While I think you can be both (a Packer fan and wanting to see Love fail), ultimately Love failing would only be bad for the team, but it would reinforce some fans views that they were right. Being right on that, really only serves an ego, not the team. Then again, what you, I or any other fan "thinks and hopes for", doesn't have any direct influence on the outcome.

 

[Schultz]

What. Are you trying to tell me that my yelling at the TV has no outcome on the games?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What. Are you trying to tell me that my yelling at the TV has no outcome on the games?

Only the ones that you are playing inside your mind.

 

[milani]

Mandarich was a huge bust. PEDs were in their infancy and not understood completely.


Coaching is huge. 15 players in the HOF or all pro on a team that only won 1 game for the last place Packers. Had Lomabardi not come to town, most would be forgotten or be considered busts.

That is a very fair analysis. The great Paul Hornung said many years after Lombardi that of those teams Herb Adderley and Forrest Gregg would have gone on to greatness and the HOF. But as for the rest of us, we needed Lombardi. It is great coaching that makes average players good and good players great.

 

[Schultz]

Only the ones that you are playing inside your mind.

Possibly, or maybe the ones I am playing inside your mind.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Possibly, or maybe the ones I am playing inside your mind.

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[Deleted member 6794]

On that same note we’ve walked DB’s and then they go on to Lucrative or high production careers elsewhere. That’s another matter but it feels good to complain!

While that's true for Hayward and Hyde I understood the reasons behind letting both of them walk away in free agency at the time it happened. The other defensive backs mentioned didn't have a lot of success outside of Green Bay either.

BOTH so vehemently despise how Gute has operated and Rodgers forced out in their opinion that they want the whole franchise to do autrocious and force Gute/Murphy/MLF out of town and hit reset.

Now it is the extreme for sure, but it is exchanges like this or similar but massively less severe that make the claim that these type of fans existing actually be true - they do exist and some are truly Packer fans.

In my opinion fans that want the team to struggle aren't truly Packers fans. That's just my two cents on it though.

 

[Pugger]

It’s such an unusual season for a 1st year QB. No formal long-Tenured veteran at WR or TE. Solid RB group, but everything else is completely up for grabs. To the point we could have a Rookie at both WR or TE steal the show. That really a rarity.

We’re the 2020 Dolphins Offense but lose Gesicki

One positive is they will all grow together - either up or down. This is one of the more interesting seasons for us if we think about it. Nobody knows what we have, especially offensively. I too think Dillion and Jones are superior. Heck, they may be one of the top RB tandems in the league right now. I hope MLF puts both of them out their together more than he has in the past. Give DC's more to worry about.