WR corps

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hell, Aaron Rodgers has 1 more catch than Sternberger for the season.

I don't think Sternberger was targeted or even hardly played in game 1, but he dropped both balls thrown at him yesterday.

So far not a good look for a 3rd rounder. Might be why the Packers doubled down this draft with yet another 3rd rounder being spent on Deguara.

 

[GleefulGary]

Hell, Aaron Rodgers has 1 more catch than Sternberger for the season.

I don't think Sternberger was targeted or even hardly played in game 1, but he dropped both balls thrown at him yesterday.

So far not a good look for a 3rd rounder. Might be why the Packers doubled down this draft with yet another 3rd rounder being spent on Deguara.

I think that might have more merit if Deguara played the same position as Sternberger. However, he does not.

 

[Mondio]

Sternberger may need to have a sit down chat with Romeo and Molly, it looks like he has a case of the yips

 

[Deleted member 6794]

MVS is on pace for 56/1280/8. He's also left a bit on the field too.

He looks better than he ever has. I think it's okay to be a little optimistic. His speed creates a lot of opportunities for this offense.

Two games are a pretty small sample size, especially considering the Packers played against terrible secondaries in both of them.

I agree there's reason to be optimistic about MVS but I want him to put up decent numbers against a good defense before getting too excited.

 

[thequick12]

The best ability is availability!

That's a total misnomer

 

[GleefulGary]

Two games are a pretty small sample size, especially considering the Packers played against terrible secondaries in both of them.

I agree there's reason to be optimistic about MVS but I want him to put up decent numbers against a good defense before getting too excited.

But yet two games is enough for you to be confident that another teams WR you haven't watched is better than Jordan Love!

You're talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

[Do7]

You're talking out both sides of your mouth.

Ooooooooo! Them fighting words! XD

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A lot of people, including myself, wondered if WR wasn't as much a point of emphasis as we all expected because the WR position wouldn't be featured as much in the offense. Through two weeks, that appears to be true. They've used a lot of 21, 12, 22, and 13 personnel.

While it might not be "featured" as much as Packer offenses in the past, it is still going to be needed to beat the better teams IMO. It would be great if the Packers could keep facing defenses like that of the Viking and the Lions, but eventually, they will run into much better defenses and it will be up to MLF and Rodgers to see what is working the best that day. I still think this receiving group has to step up a lot, in order to not be the offenses Achilles heel. Some of those dropped passes will be the difference between beating good teams and losing.

I will say this group of WR's is probably slightly better than the group that began 2019, but not much. Also, that "slightly better than" is mainly based on hopes/expectations.


2019 -WR's on opening day roster

• D. Adams: Still with the Packers
• GMO: Lions, sitting out season
• MVS: Still with the Packers
  
• Trevor Davis: Free Agent
• Jake Kumerow: Bill's Practice Squad
• Darrius Shepherd: GB Practice Squad

2020

• Adams
• Lazard
• MVS
  
• ESB
  
• Taylor

Right now the offense is ticking, but again they have not faced very good defenses. This kind of reminds me of a couple of seasons ago, when the defense wasn't giving up many yards on the ground through the first several games. Then reality hit and they faced teams with solid running games and they were exposed.

 

[Dantés]

While it might not be "featured" as much as Packer offenses in the past, it is still going to be needed to beat the better teams IMO. It would be great if the Packers could keep facing defenses like that of the Viking and the Lions, but eventually, they will run into much better defenses and it will be up to MLF and Rodgers to see what is working the best that day. I still think this receiving group has to step up a lot, in order to not be the offenses Achilles heel. Some of those dropped passes will be the difference between beating good teams and losing.

I will say this group of WR's is probably slightly better than the group that began 2019, but not much. Also, that "slightly better than" is mainly based on hopes/expectations.


2019 -WR's on opening day roster

• D. Adams: Still with the Packers
• GMO: Lions, sitting out season
• MVS: Still with the Packers
  
• Trevor Davis: Free Agent
• Jake Kumerow: Bill's Practice Squad
• Darrius Shepherd: GB Practice Squad

2020

• Adams
• Lazard
• MVS
  
• ESB
  
• Taylor

Right now the offense is ticking, but again they have not faced very good defenses. This kind of reminds me of a couple of seasons ago, when the defense wasn't giving up many yards on the ground through the first several games. Then reality hit and they faced teams with solid running games and they were exposed.

I am not saying it's not important, needed, or a potential issue. I'm just saying that in the off-season, when we were all surprised that the position wasn't pursued more aggressively, some wondered if part of the reason was that they wouldn't be featuring the position as heavily in the offense as GB has traditionally. In the early portion of the season, that seems to be the case.

My own opinion, I think not addressing it with more than Funchess was primarily for two reasons: 1) Not quite as high a priority as we imagined, and 2) The guys they eyes in rounds 1 and 2 did not make it to their pick, and the guys available thereafter struck them as lesser options than the young receivers already in house.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My own opinion, I think not addressing it with more than Funchess was primarily for two reasons: 1) Not quite as high a priority as we imagined, and 2) The guys they eyes in rounds 1 and 2 did not make it to their pick, and the guys available thereafter struck them as lesser options than the young receivers already in house.

I would add a third: "Gute and the Packers have a lot more confidence in the growth of their young receivers than I do."

Also, I have seen a few people make mention of "rookie WR's haven't looked that great so far". Really? 2 games in and we are saying the Packers were smart for not investing a top pick for the future? I haven't seen the Packers get much (yet) out of their 3 top rookies either.

Again, I think in the MLF system, with AR, AJ, DA and the OL, the Packers will be able to have a top 15 offense this year. However, I do think they may run out of gas/answers when they face top 10 defenses and they might not be able to keep up on the scoreboard against top 10 offenses. I strongly believe that this offense is a WR and a TE away from being a consistently high end top 5 offense. We will only see that if MVS and Lazard continue to improve quite a bit and we actually get a TE that defenses fear.

Not sure who watched the Saints-Raiders game last night but both teams TE's (Waller and Cook) reminded me just how poor our TE play has been over the last few years.

 

[Dantés]

I would add a third: "Gute and the Packers have a lot more confidence in the growth of their young receivers than I do."

Also, I have seen a few people make mention of "rookie WR's haven't looked that great so far". Really? 2 games in and we are saying the Packers were smart for not investing a top pick for the future? I haven't seen the Packers get much (yet) out of their 3 top rookies either.

Again, I think in the MLF system, with AR, AJ, DA and the OL, the Packers will be able to have a top 15 offense this year. However, I do think they may run out of gas/answers when they face top 10 defenses and they might not be able to keep up on the scoreboard against top 10 offenses. I strongly believe that this offense is a WR and a TE away from being a consistently high end top 5 offense. We will only see that if MVS and Lazard continue to improve quite a bit and we actually get a TE that defenses fear.

Not sure who watched the Saints-Raiders game last night but both teams TE's (Waller and Cook) reminded me just how poor our TE play has been over the last few years.

Yeah, I would distance myself from people saying that they were "smart" to not take one. I'm merely saying that there may have been a logical reason why they weren't as eager to pursue one at all costs, as many fans thought they should be.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah, I would distance myself from people saying that they were "smart" to not take one. I'm merely saying that there may have been a logical reason why they weren't as eager to pursue one at all costs, as many fans thought they should be.

Well the good news, if we don't see a lot of growth from WR's and TE's not named Davante Adams, some of us didn't expect much. The bad news, we will be into year 7 of not investing much draft or Free agent capital into the WR position and we will have yet another offseason to debate on how Gute needs to make it a priority, while Rodgers has a few good seasons left in him. Pile on top of that, Adams contract is up at the end of next season.

 

[Dantés]

Well the good news, if we don't see a lot of growth from WR's and TE's not named Davante Adams, some of us didn't expect much. The bad news, we will be into year 7 of not investing much draft or Free agent capital into the WR position and we will have yet another offseason to debate on how Gute needs to make it a priority, while Rodgers has a few good seasons left in him. Pile on top of that, Adams contract is up at the end of next season.

The other good news is that the the #2 and #3 options at WR have played well thus far, and are young players who one could reasonably expect to be improving.

Lazard's 7/108/1 would come out to 56/864/8

MVS's 7/160/1 would come out to 56/1280/8

Now you would be right to point out that the sample size is small and skewed by poor opponents. But even if you project 75% of these totals, that's great return out of your WR2 and WR3.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The other good news is that the the #2 and #3 options at WR have played well thus far, and are young players who one could reasonably expect to be improving.

Lazard's 7/108/1 would come out to 56/864/8

MVS's 7/160/1 would come out to 56/1280/8

Now you would be right to point out that the sample size is small and skewed by poor opponents. But even if you project 75% of these totals, that's great return out of your WR2 and WR3.

You are most definitely correct in pointing out the small sample size as well as the poor defenses it is against. When you have a QB like #12, I don't worry too much about the stats of the receivers. What I worry more about are dropped passes, blown routes and not being able to muster up enough offense against the better teams.

I hope I am wrong and these younger guys keep progressing and can play equally well against the better defenses. Rodgers and the Packer offense seem to stumble when they play defenses that have a very good front 7, one that can get consistent pressure on Rodgers. We haven't seen that yet this season. When we finally do, if his receivers aren't on the same page as Rodgers and/or playing well, might be game over.

 

[Dantés]

You are most definitely correct in pointing out the small sample size as well as the poor defenses it is against. When you have a QB like #12, I don't worry too much about the stats of the receivers. What I worry more about are dropped passes, blown routes and not being able to muster up enough offense against the better teams.

I hope I am wrong and these younger guys keep progressing and can play equally well against the better defenses. Rodgers and the Packer offense seem to stumble when they play defenses that have a very good front 7, one that can get consistent pressure on Rodgers. We haven't seen that yet this season. When we finally do, if his receivers aren't on the same page as Rodgers and/or playing well, might be game over.

To be fair, all offenses tend to struggle against teams with great defenses that can consistently create pressure. Mahomes & Co were stuck in neutral for most of the time on Sunday.

But I know what you're saying-- in the critical moments, can they do enough to help? Certainly that question isn't always going to be "yes" or "no." But will it be "yes" more often? We'll see.

Weeks 1-2 prove nothing, but if they suggest anything, it has to be positive.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Weeks 1-2 prove nothing, but if they suggest anything, it has to be positive.

The Good news that I see coming out of Weeks 1-2 in regards to the offense:

1. Aaron Jones Play
2. Aaron Rodgers Play
3. Davante Adams Play
4. OL Play (both pass and run blocking)
5. TE's and WR's are getting open and appear to be in the right place (running good routes), just need to clean up the drops.

 

[Dantés]

The Good news that I see coming out of Weeks 1-2 in regards to the offense:

1. Aaron Jones Play
2. Aaron Rodgers Play
3. Davante Adams Play
4. OL Play (both pass and run blocking)
5. TE's and WR's are getting open and appear to be in the right place (running good routes), just need to clean up the drops.

In general, yes, they need to clean up the drops.

In regards to MVS, I'm not excusing his drops, but people also need to understand the nature of his role. His depth of target is going to be a low % proposition.

There are currently 11 players in the league whose average depth of target is above 16 yards downfield. MVS is 6th at 17.3 yards per target. Of those 11, his catch percentage, 54% is 4th.

The top four goes:

1. Julio Jones: 16 targets, 11 receptions, 16.7 yd avg, 68.8%
2. Jalen Reagor: 8 targets, 5 receptions, 19.59 yd avg, 62.5%
3. Adam Thielen: 16 targets, 9 receptions, 17.5 yd avg, 56.3%
4. Marquez Valdes-Scantling: 13 targets, 7 receptions, 17.3 yd avg, 53.9%

And then no one else is over 50%.

So again, when the ball hits him in the hands and he doesn't catch it, that's on him. But fans will also need to realize that his role is going to be lower %, or else they'll be perpetually frustrated because of unrealistic expectations.

 

[PikeBadger]

Well the good news, if we don't see a lot of growth from WR's and TE's not named Davante Adams, some of us didn't expect much. The bad news, we will be into year 7 of not investing much draft or Free agent capital into the WR position and we will have yet another offseason to debate on how Gute needs to make it a priority, while Rodgers has a few good seasons left in him. Pile on top of that, Adams contract is up at the end of next season.

This right here is the reason that I feel there is a good likelihood we will pick a WR in the first 75 picks next year. Gutekunst worked for Thompson for quite awhile and that is how Thompson prioritized his draft needs. Who’s contract was expiring at the end of the next season. It’s very logical to me that Gutekunst would use the same philosophy.

 

[rmontro]

Did anyone see this interview MVS did with Colin Cowherd (my apologies)? He starts talking about film study around the 4:19 mark. He says he basically breaks down film on his own, studying the defense and how they cover you. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what he's saying, but it sounds a little strange to me. Just because I would expect at least a WR coach to be involved more, but it sounds more independent.

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[XPack]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ac...ficient-wide-receivers-through-two-games-dvoa

Allen Lazard is among the NFL’s most efficient wide receivers through two games

The Alien Lizard’s third-down contributions are a huge reason why he is the league’s second-ranked receiver by DVOA so far.

The other factor that has made Lazard so impressive to start 2020 is his knack for moving the chains in critical situations. Four of his receptions have moved the chains on third or fourth downs, with three of them coming with at least six yards to go. That includes gains of 12 and 38 yards on 3rd-and-7, ten yards on 4th-and-6, and 25 yards on 3rd-and-2. Moreover, he has caught every one of his targets in those critical make-or-break situations, showing why Aaron Rodgers clearly trusts him on must-have plays.

 

[PikeBadger]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ac...ficient-wide-receivers-through-two-games-dvoa

Allen Lazard is among the NFL’s most efficient wide receivers through two games

The Alien Lizard’s third-down contributions are a huge reason why he is the league’s second-ranked receiver by DVOA so far.

The other factor that has made Lazard so impressive to start 2020 is his knack for moving the chains in critical situations. Four of his receptions have moved the chains on third or fourth downs, with three of them coming with at least six yards to go. That includes gains of 12 and 38 yards on 3rd-and-7, ten yards on 4th-and-6, and 25 yards on 3rd-and-2. Moreover, he has caught every one of his targets in those critical make-or-break situations, showing why Aaron Rodgers clearly trusts him on must-have plays.

Yeah but... but.... he’s only a former udfa and.... and so definitely cannot be as talented as all those great college WR’s that came out in the last draft class. He should be our #4 WR. <sarcasm>

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But yet two games is enough for you to be confident that another teams WR you haven't watched is better than Jordan Love!

You're talking out both sides of your mouth.

There's a huge difference between advising fans to be cautious about MVS' development by pointing out that the Packers have faced terrible secondaries so far and noting that Love hasn't been able to move past an undrafted player on the depth chart to at least be active on game day.

 

[gbgary]

I would also add that as they face better defenses/secondary's, they will need to get open. I don't really consider the Vikings or Lions as good tests of our receivers abilities, more a confirmation that Rodgers is still playing at a high level.

they were open last year, especially in the middle of the field, but the buy-in wasn't there like this year. he's used the middle of the field a lot more. his attitudinal reversal is striking. it's been talked about ad nauseum since camp began. reporters noticed it right away. he's spoken about it. from his comments about all the zoom meetings turning his head on the O, to his film study comments, to his appearance on pat mcafee's show mentioning his head being in a good place.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

they were open last year, especially in the middle of the field, but the buy-in wasn't there like this year

I think we could take that debate up again, but it might bore people. Often times some peoples interpretation of "open", isn't clearly looking at the play from the QB's point of view. Rather, its a media "expert" wanting to try and prove a point by showing a freeze frame of a guy seemingly wide open in the middle of the field and thus declaring...."Rodgers totally ignored him! He is so uncoachable and moody"

 

[gbgary]

A lot of people, including myself, wondered if WR wasn't as much a point of emphasis as we all expected because the WR position wouldn't be featured as much in the offense. Through two weeks, that appears to be true. They've used a lot of 21, 12, 22, and 13 personnel.

i think they thought they were ok at WR but circumstances (rodgers resistance) kinda forced them into the draft strategy they took. i know the rodgers cheerleaders here think it's BS but i believe the now obvious rodgers buy-in over the offseason caught them by surprise. had it come a year earlier the draft may have been different.