Week 11 Minnesota Vikings [pregame and postgame thread]

[OldSchool101]

Crosby has had some great moments to be sure, but it's not like he's ever been Justin Tucker in terms of consistency.

I normally appreciate setting the bar high, but let’s be real, How many teams have a Kicker that’s comparable to Justin Tucker?

I’m open to suggestions. You’re our HC. Who would you bring in next week and what changes would you make specifically to make us “Justin Tucker” like?

 

[Mondio]

I can't argue or disagree with any of this, but couldn't it be derived that they're not using him properly, then? Why not run MVS across the middle where he can expand the cushion that DB's are already giving him (assuming man coverage)? I would think crossers or 3-5 step slants & breaking back outside would free up MVS for short/mid-level patterns. Would also force DB's a bit tighter in an attempt to keep up. Watching Tyreek Hill most of his patterns are not fly deep patterns, but crosses and quick breaking across the middle patterns. MVS & Hill aren't the same players, but both are extremely fast and are used differently.

He does at times, caught a big 3rd or 4th down plays yesterday going across. I do think his role is deeper though to help create space for guys like Adams, Cobb and take defenders far away from LOS for run game too.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Much like the way we beat Seattle, we lost to the Vikings at the LOS on both sides of the ball yesterday. The Packers were not as good at putting pressure on Cousins, as the Vikings were at putting pressure on Rodgers. Cousins is a pretty decent QB, when given time and having 2 guys like Jefferson and Thielen doesn't hurt either. We have seen this scenario too often (Tampa Bay 2020, 49'ers a few years back, Saints week 1). Injuries definitely explain a lot of what happened yesterday and the Packers actually played about as well as can be expected, given all the key players out. That said, I hope both MLF and Barry can come up with ways to beat the Rams, knowing they will have to do so without key players on the OL, RB, OLB and CB. Yesterday, I didn't feel like Rodgers and MLF adjust very well to a defense that was in his face most of the day. On defense, I felt Barry just gave up and hoped for better pass coverage, instead of dialing up something different.

 

[Mondio]

On defense, I felt Barry just gave up and hoped for better pass coverage, instead of dialing up something different.

I agree with most of what you said, just wanted to touch on this part. One of the parts I caught from the announcers was in their pre-game stuff they were asking Barry about defending MN and he said, we're going to give them some openings at times basically because they had good outside guys and a really good RB and we were shorthanded, but then they were going to take their shots (on defense)

But he knew they couldn't defend it all. Looking back I think that's kind of what they did and we did have our chances, lots of them we missed. That could have easily been a 10+pt win for us yesterday even with a slow starting offense. 2 TD's and the go ahead FG each had multiple opportunities within each of those drives for turnovers we didn't make. 17pts because we didn't capitalize and that doesn't even account for the extra opportunity for our offense that started finding it's groove.

I'm not so sure the plan was bad as much as it was the execution again.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not so sure the plan was bad as much as it was the execution again.

I agree with this. I missed the pregame, so didn't hear the interview with Barry. That approach you described makes sense, since the Packers were definitely short some key players. I suppose they could have made it their goal to try and shut down Jefferson and Thielen and then Cook runs wild for 150 yards on the ground and 100 receiving. Holding him to 115 total was probably considered a win for the defense.

I will say though that it is frustrating and hard to watch when opponents have wide open receivers and it seems like the DC is not dialing up any kind of stunts to put more pressure on the QB. Meanwhile, the Vikings D, had Rodgers on edge most of the afternoon. So, whether it is bad execution by players, poor game planning, not enough altering of plans, etc., it typically ends in a loss when you can't control the LOS on either side of the ball.

 

[Pkrjones]

Much like the way we beat Seattle, we lost to the Vikings at the LOS on both sides of the ball yesterday. The Packers were not as good at putting pressure on Cousins, as the Vikings were at putting pressure on Rodgers. Cousins is a pretty decent QB, when given time and having 2 guys like Jefferson and Thielen doesn't hurt either.

Per the Packerswire article grading players: "Aaron Rodgers was under pressure on 10 of 37 dropbacks (27 percent). Kirk Cousins was under pressure on 16 of 37 dropbacks (43.2 percent)." https://packerswire.usatoday.com/li...s-best-worst-players-from-week-11-at-vikings/

Would've been nice to pressure Cousins 75% of the time but minus our OLB's as we were that is a much better stat than I was expecting. Per that article 4 of the 5 lowest grades on offense were Turner, Newman, Patrick & Runyan which supports your comment on Rodgers being under pressure, but IMHO MLF has gone away from what worked against AZ ~ get the ball OUT of AR's hands and into a RB or WR's quickly. MLF can devise a scheme that will work to that end, but it seems that he isn't.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Per the Packerswire article grading players: "Aaron Rodgers was under pressure on 10 of 37 dropbacks (27 percent). Kirk Cousins was under pressure on 16 of 37 dropbacks (43.2 percent)." https://packerswire.usatoday.com/li...s-best-worst-players-from-week-11-at-vikings/

Would've been nice to pressure Cousins 75% of the time but minus our OLB's as we were that is a much better stat than I was expecting. Per that article 4 of the 5 lowest grades on offense were Turner, Newman, Patrick & Runyan which supports your comment on Rodgers being under pressure, but IMHO MLF has gone away from what worked against AZ ~ get the ball OUT of AR's hands and into a RB or WR's quickly. MLF can devise a scheme that will work to that end, but it seems that he isn't.

Good stuff and I don't know what goes into the "pressure" stat., but it sure felt like Rodgers was under more pressure than Cousins. Could be my Packer fan bias.

I agree with you, that when Rodgers is facing a defensive front like that, they need to go to plays that get the ball out quicker and stop looking for the perfect long pass or the second or third guy. Settle for 2-3 plays to pick up each first down. Requires the offense to play pretty much mistake free, which backfired a few times yesterday due to penalties or bad throws.

 

[El Guapo]

Vikings fans around me complained the entire time that Rodgers continually had all day to pass the ball. Obviously that is not true on every play but I agree with the stats that Rodgers had more time than Cousins. The difference is that Rodgers wisely through the ball towards a receiver's feet when under duress, Cousins through the ball towards Savage in those situations.

 

[adambr2]

I normally appreciate setting the bar high, but let’s be real, How many teams have a Kicker that’s comparable to Justin Tucker?

I’m open to suggestions. You’re our HC. Who would you bring in next week and what changes would you make specifically to make us “Justin Tucker” like?

Nobody. I'd stick with Crosby for this season and move on to either Molson next year or look at options late in the draft.

 

[OldSchool101]

Nobody. I'd stick with Crosby for this season and move on to either Molson next year or look at options late in the draft.

If Crosby continually improves towards the end of the season, would you cut him regardless or what's your threshold for replacing him?

 

[OldSchool101]

Did anyone else notice that Sullivan got noticeably held on the 2pt Vikings conversion? It was very obvious and 100% affected that play. Should've been a 7 yard try

After watching the replay,
I also disagree with the reversal of Savages last INT, as he came down with it, he made a football move by turning his body completely around after planting both feet to free himself. He had control as is knee hit first And then maintain said control all the way through until it's elbow hit. At that point he was already tackled. Not even close enough to reverse the call on the field.

Even past that I never saw the football move with any aid of the ground. It appeared pinned between his arm and leg and he pinched it back up. Had the ground not been there? He would've still maintained control. I will note the camera angle was poor and you lost visual of the ball for a millisecond. But at no time did it appear to be aided by the ground.

Anyone see a better angle that was conclusive to overturn the ruled catch?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I can't argue or disagree with any of this, but couldn't it be derived that they're not using him properly, then? Why not run MVS across the middle where he can expand the cushion that DB's are already giving him (assuming man coverage)? I would think crossers or 3-5 step slants & breaking back outside would free up MVS for short/mid-level patterns. Would also force DB's a bit tighter in an attempt to keep up. Watching Tyreek Hill most of his patterns are not fly deep patterns, but crosses and quick breaking across the middle patterns. MVS & Hill aren't the same players, but both are extremely fast and are used differently.

I believe MVS isn't a good enough route runner to use him in the way you suggested on the majority of snaps.

Yesterday, I didn't feel like Rodgers and MLF adjust very well to a defense that was in his face most of the day.

I don't agree with that at all as the Packers scored 31 points on the road while missing several key players on offense.

Per the Packerswire article grading players: "Aaron Rodgers was under pressure on 10 of 37 dropbacks (27 percent). Kirk Cousins was under pressure on 16 of 37 dropbacks (43.2 percent)." https://packerswire.usatoday.com/li...s-best-worst-players-from-week-11-at-vikings/

Would've been nice to pressure Cousins 75% of the time but minus our OLB's as we were that is a much better stat than I was expecting. Per that article 4 of the 5 lowest grades on offense were Turner, Newman, Patrick & Runyan which supports your comment on Rodgers being under pressure, but IMHO MLF has gone away from what worked against AZ ~ get the ball OUT of AR's hands and into a RB or WR's quickly. MLF can devise a scheme that will work to that end, but it seems that he isn't.

As mentioned above I have a hard time understanding any Packers fan being disappointed with the offense against the Vikings.

After watching the replay,
I also disagree with the reversal of Savages last INT, as he came down with it, he made a football move by turning his body completely around after planting both feet to free himself. He had control as is knee hit first And then maintain said control all the way through until it's elbow hit. At that point he was already tackled. Not even close enough to reverse the call on the field.

Even past that I never saw the football move with any aid of the ground. It appeared pinned between his arm and leg and he pinched it back up. Had the ground not been there? He would've still maintained control. I will note the camera angle was poor and you lost visual of the ball for a millisecond. But at no time did it appear to be aided by the ground.

Anyone see a better angle that was conclusive to overturn the ruled catch?

Take off your Packers glasses and take a look at it once again. It was the right call to overturn the interception.

 

[Voyageur]

I'd like to believe it was an INT, but I'm afraid it wasn't. I just wish Savage could hold onto the ball better. That was game right there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't agree with that at all as the Packers scored 31 points on the road while missing several key players on offense.

Yet they lost the game, one in which they had opportunities to score enough points to win. I think the offense is capable of more points, they just seem to bog down in the red zone or shoot themselves in the foot with mistakes.

It was nice to see the Packers put up more points than what they have in the past, but on those days when your defense isn't having a good day, it is time for the offense to bail them out.

 

[OldSchool101]

Take off your Packers glasses and take a look at it once again. It was the right call to overturn the interception.

Take off your anti-Packer apologist glasses. The Green Bay Packers just appealed to the NFL for a detailed explanation of that play after I wrote my post. How often do they appeal to the league for Referee infractions? give me a guess in the % in regard to flags thrown?
I’ll answer that.. less than 1%

You obviously don’t understand the rule or are just quick to jump on posters for their personal evaluation. However. As of today, You’re beef is now also directly adverse with MLF and the Packers organization. But you are obviously an expert and you should reach out to him snd tell him how you feel.

 

[Voyageur]

Yet they lost the game, one in which they had opportunities to score enough points to win. I think the offense is capable of more points, they just seem to bog down in the red zone or shoot themselves in the foot with mistakes.

It was nice to see the Packers put up more points than what they have in the past, but on those days when your defense isn't having a good day, it is time for the offense to bail them out.

The loss of Tonyan has really hurt our red zone offense. I don't believe we have the push in our offensive line to make us a running threat down there, so we're pretty much a weak sister.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The loss of Tonyan has really hurt our red zone offense. I don't believe we have the push in our offensive line to make us a running threat down there, so we're pretty much a weak sister.

I could be wrong, but I think it was worse prior to Tonyan's injury?

In either case, the Packers are currently 24th (54.76%). Last season they were one of the best offenses in the NFL at scoring a TD inside the redzone. (76.81%).

Not sure if it is the play calling, personnel or just bad luck. Just a personal observation, Rodgers doesn't seem to be himself in the redzone this year.

 

[KiDcUdI]

If Crosby continually improves towards the end of the season, would you cut him regardless or what's your threshold for replacing him?

I cut him because we are in cap hell next season.

 

[OldSchool101]

During the game, I was just saying how the Vikings were being innovative on Offense and we were not. We were really vanilla for the most part.

Then we did a pitch to Cobb who pitched it to Dillon for a nice chunk gain. Those are the type of plays we need more of in goal to go. Lineup Dillon and catch them with 6-7 down lineman.. then play for the pylon.

 

[Voyageur]

I cut him because we are in cap hell next season.

Cutting Crosby after this year would leave over $2 mill dead cap, and cut about a $2 mill off in salary. The replacement would cost about $1 mill, so you save $1 mill, but have an unknown commodity. It might happen.

 

[OldSchool101]

Cutting Crosby after this year would leave over $2 mill dead cap, and cut about a $2 mill off in salary. The replacement would cost about $1 mill, so you save $1 mill, but have an unknown commodity. It might happen.

Especially if they can draft a Kicker day 3. We’re talking somewhere in the 600-700K range for 4 seasons.

 

[KiDcUdI]

Especially if they can draft a Kicker day 3. We’re talking somewhere in the 600-700K range for 4 seasons.

I have heard really good things from the PS kicker. Not much experience but I would rather roll with him and bring in another UDFA or vet for competition.

 

[OldSchool101]

I have heard really good things from the PS kicker. Not much experience but I would rather roll with him and bring in another UDFA or vet for competition.

Yes. well, Point being we can’t afford $4.3mil annual for average to poor performance.
In my mind, Crosby will have the entire remainder of the season to figure things out. He’ll need to in order to justify that type $$.
On the high side we’d draft one (similar to drafting Crosby) and he’s a fraction of that $

 

[PackerDNA]

Glass half-full or half-empty?
Half full- despite all the injuries, digging a hole for themselves early, and all the costly penalties and dropped interceptions, they were still right in until the end and nearly won against a good team on the road and a desperate division rival. I would submit that they should have won, and did more to lose the game then the Vikings did to win it.
Just take the missed field goal and any one of the dropped or nullified interceptions, and they probably win by 10 points.
Half empty- sloppy play and the still haven't played their best game yet story finally caught up to them. The injuries are getting to be too much to overcome, and are threatening to derail a promising season. In my opinion the Rams game has become a must-win game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yet they lost the game, one in which they had opportunities to score enough points to win. I think the offense is capable of more points, they just seem to bog down in the red zone or shoot themselves in the foot with mistakes.

The Packers lost the game because of the defense giving up 34 points though.

Take off your anti-Packer apologist glasses. The Green Bay Packers just appealed to the NFL for a detailed explanation of that play after I wrote my post. How often do they appeal to the league for Referee infractions? give me a guess in the % in regard to flags thrown?
I’ll answer that.. less than 1%

You obviously don’t understand the rule or are just quick to jump on posters for their personal evaluation. However. As of today, You’re beef is now also directly adverse with MLF and the Packers organization. But you are obviously an expert and you should reach out to him snd tell him how you feel.

You probably have a hard time understanding it but it's possible to take an objective view on calls like it. Savage didn't make a football move and had to maintain control of the ball when going to the ground, which he didn't. Therefore ruling the pass incomplete was the correct decision.

For the record, MLF said he would like to receive an explanation from the league office on that play, there's no way for the Packers to appeal the ruling.

I could be wrong, but I think it was worse prior to Tonyan's injury?

In either case, the Packers are currently 24th (54.76%). Last season they were one of the best offenses in the NFL at scoring a TD inside the redzone. (76.81%).

Not sure if it is the play calling, personnel or just bad luck. Just a personal observation, Rodgers doesn't seem to be himself in the redzone this year.

I guess the injuries on the offensive line have something to do with the offense struggling in the red zone.