Week 11 Minnesota Vikings [pregame and postgame thread]

[Pugger]

all the accolades the D got over the past few weeks was way overrated. We have serious secondary issues. Go in with “stopping Cook” mentally is why Cousins carved our ***** up. Bad d coaching. One dimensional. High school coaching.

When you lose 2 pass rushers and can't get any pressure on the QB even Cousins can carve you up.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Jefferson learned that skill from Carter.

Yes, I saw him pushing off at least 3 times today, and the striped blind mice did not. I guarantee you going forward the officiating will be watching him closely though.

 

[diezman]

Seems like the Packers split with Minnesota every year in the NFC North. I'm not worried just yet. We'll see next week against the Rams.

 

[ctfxcwatcher]

Only so much you can do with all these injuries. Still has me thinking last season was the best shot for The Pack to win it all. Wayyy healthier. If only they took care of business .

 

[OldSchool101]

all the accolades the D got over the past few weeks was way overrated. We have serious secondary issues. Go in with “stopping Cook” mentally is why Cousins carved our ***** up. Bad d coaching. One dimensional. High school coaching.

While the D didn’t win the game, you can’t expect them to every week. They had several very close opportunities to close this game out and we’re inches from doing so.

Also. I think in your frustration, you fail to recognize we were playing without several key starters. I think people underestimate what Gary has done for this Defense. Also, if you sit Dalvin Cook? That alone would’ve decided the game. Aaron Jones and D. Cook are very comparable players. That’s a huge loss for us.

In addition, this was a Divisional game on the road and we were in it until the last play. The Vikings are an above average team and will likely be vying for a playoff spot in late December. This was not an easy opponent to play on the road.

On a good note. Our Offense finally started to spark. Now it’s time to get some players back each week and put it all together.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Yeah, he does. Just because he was good at one time doesn't mean it lasts forever.

He didn't suddenly lose the ability to kick after making a bazillion in a row before getting stuck with a new holder and snapper.

He's had a nice career. It's time to move on and look for our future kicker in the next draft. Things change over 14 years.

The lengths we go go make excuses for Crosby is incredible. He had a good snap and good hold on the 31 yarder today and he flat blew it.

No, his snapper threw back a wobbler, which caused our questionable holder to put it on the ground at the wrong angle and probably the wrong spot, which is more than enough to turn a close make into a miss. The kicker marks his steps in response the the "mark" that the holder indicates with his finger. That's where the ball is expected to be, because kicking is muscle memory. if the ball misses the mark it will be either pushed or pulled. The ball is only on the ground for .2-.3 seconds before it's kicked. The brain simply doesn't work fast enough for the kicker to change anything, and even if he did, he's already 80% through his motion.

As an aside, having a kicker who needs absolutely ideal execution to make a kick is not very desirable. There are kickers who can overcome an imperfectly executed snap and hold to make a kick.

There's a large gap between "imperfect" and "bad." Most of his misses have had holds and/or snaps when trended toward the BAD part of that spectrum. You might be surprised how perfect those guys have to be. People always underestimate their role in the kick.

 

[Sanguine camper]

No way Packers should even be in the game with 4 pro bowlers out. Injuries caught up to them today. With Alexander shutting down Jefferson and Z getting in the backfield, this would've been an easy victory had the team not been decimated by in juries.

 

[XPack]

You think 31 isn’t enough? Maybe the defense shouldn’t give up 34. The players on the field did not make plays today. Too many missed opportunities to get a turnover.

Not just today, but sometimes we need to carry the D (or ST) when they are riddled with injuries. At no game this season would I say the O had played to it's full potential. We lack conviction, we don't dominate. We just get by.

 

[Schultz]

Just too much to ask in a division game on the road dealing with all of those injuries and factoring in the Kyle Karma.

 

[OldSchool101]

Just too much to ask in a division game on the road dealing with all of those injuries and factoring in the Kyle Karma.

True. I know this is small consolation. But we played relatively sloppy from a disciplined standpoint(9-92 yds penalized)

We hung around and actually took the lead with under 7 minutes in the 4th quarter. We also went into the last drive tied with just over 2 minutes left and by a thread.. we could’ve been the ones rallying for the Win. These 2 teams were very even in strength imo.

That said. This game was played @US Bank stadium with a QB still recovering from covid..cough cough… I mean a hurt toe We played without several key members, including 1 of our best Offensive AND best Defensive players. The mere fact we just went toe to toe is impressive.

On a bright note. Both the Rams and Dallas lost their last games. The Browns and Ravens looked lackluster and appear as teams we should beat

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I think if there's a positive it's that MVS and Rodgers maybe are clicking better. Coming out passing was a surprise considering most felt Dillon would get fed (including me). We can't win them all and I like our chances against them in Lambeau. Especially if we can get our team back healthier.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think if there's a positive it's that MVS and Rodgers maybe are clicking better. Coming out passing was a surprise considering most felt Dillon would get fed (including me). We can't win them all and I like our chances against them in Lambeau. Especially if we can get our team back healthier.

I agree. I liked what I’m seeing from Deguara and EQ also. MVS looks the part for sure. 22+ MPH fasted recoded time this season

 

[Voyageur]

I think if there's a positive it's that MVS and Rodgers maybe are clicking better. Coming out passing was a surprise considering most felt Dillon would get fed (including me). We can't win them all and I like our chances against them in Lambeau. Especially if we can get our team back healthier.

The only shortcoming on this combo is that they had 4 connects on 10 targets. The percentage needs to move up some, but they need to keep him in the mix to keep defenders honest. His hands will get better - I hope.

 

[tynimiller]

The only shortcoming on this combo is that they had 4 connects on 10 targets. The percentage needs to move up some, but they need to keep him in the mix to keep defenders honest. His hands will get better - I hope.

His hands....show me one pass yesterday where he dropped the pass? Actually show me any drop he has been credited with this season? Last I checked he doesn't have any this year.

 

[Voyageur]

His hands....show me one pass yesterday where he dropped the pass? Actually show me any drop he has been credited with this season? Last I checked he doesn't have any this year.

Where did I say dropped passes? He hasn't "dropped" one this year, but dropped 7 last year. Better hands means that he can win the 50/50 tosses in his direction. He had two that could have been caught but weren't. They aren't classified as drops because they were contested. Adams, Jordy, receivers like them, make those catches. Hopefully he will in the future.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Just when you think MVS is a non factor, he pops a big game. Given his inconsistencies and injury history, I think Gute should only give him a very modest offer to come back next season. Same for Lazard. Vikings defense looked bad even though they were near full strength. It doesn't bode well for them in the playoffs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Better hands means that he can win the 50/50 tosses in his direction. He had two that could have been caught but weren't.

MVS is an interesting WR. On one hand you occasionally get the long bombs for a large gain/TD like we saw yesterday, but in between you get a lot of missed connections on the deep ones. Basically, boom or bust. Now as you said, if he can get better separation near the LOS and make the contested catches, he would be a dangerous WR and a legit #2 and even someday, maybe a #1. He is going to be a very interesting decision for the Packers to make in the offseason. If Adams walks, they might be forced into signing him, but if he wants too much, I would let him walk too.

I would think that defenses are more apt to defend MVS with the mindset that he is going to go deep, given that, I would like to see him running more 10-15 yard routes. Maybe he is and just not getting open enough? Have also wondered if he ever hits the weight room, maybe he fears adding too much muscle will slow him down, but it might help him in contested balls as well as yards after contact.

 

[tynimiller]

Where did I say dropped passes? He hasn't "dropped" one this year, but dropped 7 last year. Better hands means that he can win the 50/50 tosses in his direction. He had two that could have been caught but weren't. They aren't classified as drops because they were contested. Adams, Jordy, receivers like them, make those catches. Hopefully he will in the future.

LOL sorry in past seasons MVS's hands could be argued as being the primary issue besides being a deep end target (which always have lower catch percentages given distance of target)...but this year MVS's hands have not been the issue the majority or nearly all the times a failed connection has occurred. His separation has lacked sometimes, but majority of the misses have been just uncatchable balls honestly.

 

[tynimiller]

....and to be fair that comes with the nature of type of WR he is. His purest offering to any offense is the deep ball. Deep balls have crazy lower percentage of completions just in general before you even discuss drop issues.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

....and to be fair that comes with the nature of type of WR he is. His purest offering to any offense is the deep ball. Deep balls have crazy lower percentage of completions just in general before you even discuss drop issues.

Great points and I agree. I would say though that as of now, MVS is a guy you want on your team, at the right price. However, I don't think he is a solid #1 if Adams walks. He has improved a lot since year 1, but still needs to become a more complete WR.

EQ had a nice game yesterday. Maybe Lazard and Taylor being injured was a good thing? I have all but given up on Taylor, but Lazard offers a few things the others don't...blocking and pretty decent hands and ability after the catch.

 

[Mondio]

He hasn't dropped anything. The disconnects this year have been a function of 2 things IMO, 1 Rodgers being out the past 2 weeks really and our Oline. It's not good and it just go worse. Play calling and Rodgers have made them look better than they are.

Yesterday was kind of a prime example. One one play they had shown A gap blitzes coming and Rodgers knew he had to get the ball out quickly or risk a sack out of FG range on that first scoring drive we had.


There wasn't really time to use his speed when half of it is burned up just closing the distance with the DB playing deep so Rodgers has to really throw it out there and hope MVS is faster than he is.

Later in the game, they were able to get a tick extra in protection. He could actually work across the field and deep and TD. Helped he was on a safety too, but if a DB just has to give a cushion and turn and run deep, most of them can do it with tight coverage for a bit. They know the first 10-15 not a concern, that next middle 20 they're very tight.

When the ball is coming out right a way and they're already in an area where it's going to be thrown, hard to create some separation. Now have some protection and let a guy with some speed actually work a route or give him time to run past or thru the area they're already defending and suddenly he has good separation.

Regardless, his hands have not been an issue since before this time last year.

 

[Pkrjones]

He hasn't dropped anything. The disconnects this year have been a function of 2 things IMO, 1 Rodgers being out the past 2 weeks really and our Oline. It's not good and it just go worse. Play calling and Rodgers have made them look better than they are.

Yesterday was kind of a prime example. One one play they had shown A gap blitzes coming and Rodgers knew he had to get the ball out quickly or risk a sack out of FG range on that first scoring drive we had.


There wasn't really time to use his speed when half of it is burned up just closing the distance with the DB playing deep so Rodgers has to really throw it out there and hope MVS is faster than he is.

Later in the game, they were able to get a tick extra in protection. He could actually work across the field and deep and TD. Helped he was on a safety too, but if a DB just has to give a cushion and turn and run deep, most of them can do it with tight coverage for a bit. They know the first 10-15 not a concern, that next middle 20 they're very tight.

When the ball is coming out right a way and they're already in an area where it's going to be thrown, hard to create some separation. Now have some protection and let a guy with some speed actually work a route or give him time to run past or thru the area they're already defending and suddenly he has good separation.

Regardless, his hands have not been an issue since before this time last year.

I can't argue or disagree with any of this, but couldn't it be derived that they're not using him properly, then? Why not run MVS across the middle where he can expand the cushion that DB's are already giving him (assuming man coverage)? I would think crossers or 3-5 step slants & breaking back outside would free up MVS for short/mid-level patterns. Would also force DB's a bit tighter in an attempt to keep up. Watching Tyreek Hill most of his patterns are not fly deep patterns, but crosses and quick breaking across the middle patterns. MVS & Hill aren't the same players, but both are extremely fast and are used differently.

 

[OldSchool101]

I can't argue or disagree with any of this, but couldn't it be derived that they're not using him properly, then? Why not run MVS across the middle where he can expand the cushion that DB's are already giving him (assuming man coverage)? I would think crossers or 3-5 step slants & breaking back outside would free up MVS for short/mid-level patterns. Would also force DB's a bit tighter in an attempt to keep up. Watching Tyreek Hill most of his patterns are not fly deep patterns, but crosses and quick breaking across the middle patterns. MVS & Hill aren't the same players, but both are extremely fast and are used differently.

I’d also add in a few, what we used to call, “inside/outside fishhooks” (faking a deep route only to turn and reel back to the ball). Those are great 10-20 yard chain movers that are hard to defend.

I do like more slants or crossing routes (similar to what Jefferson has been using) where we can utilize a 15 yard catch in motion and he can use his speed across the field to his advantage. Those would be higher probability 20 yard net pickups.

I like the deep ball occasionally though. It benefits not only MVS, but also commits the Safety and opens up the congestion underneath for Receivers like Adams.

 

[PikeBadger]

The only shortcoming on this combo is that they had 4 connects on 10 targets. The percentage needs to move up some, but they need to keep him in the mix to keep defenders honest. His hands will get better - I hope.

Has he dropped a pass in the last 12 months?

 

[adambr2]

He didn't suddenly lose the ability to kick after making a bazillion in a row before getting stuck with a new holder and snapper.


No, his snapper threw back a wobbler, which caused our questionable holder to put it on the ground at the wrong angle and probably the wrong spot, which is more than enough to turn a close make into a miss. The kicker marks his steps in response the the "mark" that the holder indicates with his finger. That's where the ball is expected to be, because kicking is muscle memory. if the ball misses the mark it will be either pushed or pulled. The ball is only on the ground for .2-.3 seconds before it's kicked. The brain simply doesn't work fast enough for the kicker to change anything, and even if he did, he's already 80% through his motion.



There's a large gap between "imperfect" and "bad." Most of his misses have had holds and/or snaps when trended toward the BAD part of that spectrum. You might be surprised how perfect those guys have to be. People always underestimate their role in the kick.

Yeah, it actually does happen. He was one of the worst kickers in football in 2012 despite being good before then. He is again one of the worst kickers in football now in 2021. Kickers are a volatile bunch. Crosby has had some great moments to be sure, but it's not like he's ever been Justin Tucker in terms of consistency.

The snap and hold yesterday were not "bad". He's had misses with bad snaps and/or holds but if we're throwing every miss into that category than the standard for his snaps and holds are clearly so high that you're not ever going to hold him accountable for any of his misses.