The Weakest Link: Outside Linebacker

[Dantés]

Ted Thompson seems to be the most polarizing figure on this forum. Posters seem to want to categorize one another when it comes to the Packers' long time general manager as either haters or homers. Most of us, however, fall somewhere along a spectrum of satisfaction with the job Thompson does. I doubt anyone truly believes he's perfect, and no one (at least no one worth reading) actually thinks he's completely incompetent.

For myself, I tend to lean harder towards the side that's complimentary of the work he's done. On the whole, I think he's a great GM. However, this offseason, there has been one area on the roster where Thompson's decisions have been less than satisfactory to me, and that's at OLB. He basically had to keep Perry, and he did. I thought the contract was pretty fair, given Perry's ceiling when healthy coupled with his history with missing time. Thompson also chose to retain Matthews, which wasn't a shock-- this team rarely cuts players early.

Those moves left the Packers with two starting edge rushers who have been injured fairly often, and only actually played 59% and 46% of last year's defensive snaps respectively. They aren't horrible starters, but given their pasts and usages it would seem that depth is paramount. That's where Thompson lost me. I expected that Fackrell would be counted on more heavily, but that isn't going to be enough. Between Peppers and Jones, the team lost 1,135 snaps from the position. I expect some of those will be eaten up by increased DL usage, however the lion's share will remain to be accounted for by the remaining OLB's.

I theorized that the team might be wise to keep Jones on the cheap as he seemed to begin getting comfortable in an edge role last season. They chose not to. I thought they might pursue a mid level veteran such as Sheard, Simon, Okafor, or Barwin. They sniffed around Barwin, but otherwise they chose not to sign anyone. I thought they might invest in a pass rusher high in the draft. While I really like Biegel and was high on him heading into the draft, they chose to pass on any of the more valuable guys (e.g. Bowser, Willis, Rivers).

So all that said, they are in something of a precarious spot at a really important position. They have injury prone starters in front of inexperience. Even if you optimistically predict that Perry and Matthews will manage 60% of the defense snaps each and that the DL will take on more snaps, Fackrell, Elliott, and a currently lame Biegel are still going to have to account for roughly 1,000 snaps between them. That seems like a tall order.

So what are the options at this point?

Veterans: Obviously in August, this talent pool is all but dried up. Paul Kruger, Trent Cole, Dwight Freeney, and Mario Williams are the most notable names still out there. Those guys are pretty much done at this point. Additionally, the only real chance they have to contribute is as designated pass rushers, so they wouldn't be much help on early downs.

Trades?: Trades in the NFL are, by definition, highly improbable. A couple names that occur to me as even the slightest possibilities include the Jets' Lorenzo Mauldin and the Redskins' Trent Murphy. The Jets might take what they can get as this is clearly a tank year. But even if they did, Mauldin has only proven to be a 4th or 5th option at best. The Redskins have Kerrigan, an emerging Preston Smith, a 2nd round pick in Ryan Anderson, and apparently Junior Galette looks all the way back from injury this offseason. Murphy has to serve a 4 game suspension, so if their depth holds and he's not in their future plans, maybe they'd move him? Neither scenario is anything close to probable, but I would absolutely love to acquire Murphy.

Camp Cuts?: Lamarr Houston comes to mind as a guy who might be let go in Chicago and fits the mold of a Jones or a Peppers in terms of size and style. He's been a disappointment for the Bears, but perhaps could provide some decent snaps here and there? Wes Horton might be the victim of a numbers game in Carolina.

UDFA: While not the most likely avenue to seriously help, this is the most likely avenue for the Packers to take. The only guy out of their current undrafted edge rushers that I can see making any sort of impact is Johnathan Calvin. He's 6'3" 266 lbs, he jumped a 34" vertical (58th% for EDGE) and a 115" broad (67% for EDGE), and he had a 7.08 3C (76th% for EDGE). His forty time and short shuttle were poor, though I tend to put the most stock in the jumps and the 3C. Additionally, he was actually pretty productive for Mississippi State. 55 total tackles, 11.5 for a loss, 7 sacks, 1 INT, 5 QB Hurries, 1 PBU, and 2 FF in 2016. That's nothing to sneeze at in the SEC. He was much quieter in 2015, with 27 tackles, 5.5 TFL, 1.5 Sacks, and 5 QB Hurries. So perhaps it's meant to be for John Calvin.

So there you have it-- a long winded lament with some theorizing regarding what I perceive to be the Packers' weakest link. May the starters stay healthy and the young guys step up.

 

[PikeBadger]

Ted Thompson seems to be the most polarizing figure on this forum. Posters seem to want to categorize one another when it comes to the Packers' long time general manager as either haters or homers. Most of us, however, fall somewhere along a spectrum of satisfaction with the job Thompson does. I doubt anyone truly believes he's perfect, and no one (at least no one worth reading) actually thinks he's completely incompetent.

For myself, I tend to lean harder towards the side that's complimentary of the work he's done. On the whole, I think he's a great GM. However, this offseason, there has been one area on the roster where Thompson's decisions have been less than satisfactory to me, and that's at OLB. He basically had to keep Perry, and he did. I thought the contract was pretty fair, given Perry's ceiling when healthy coupled with his history with missing time. Thompson also chose to retain Matthews, which wasn't a shock-- this team rarely cuts players early.

Those moves left the Packers with two starting edge rushers who have been injured fairly often, and only actually played 59% and 46% of last year's defensive snaps respectively. They aren't horrible starters, but given their pasts and usages it would seem that depth is paramount. That's where Thompson lost me. I expected that Fackrell would be counted on more heavily, but that isn't going to be enough. Between Peppers and Jones, the team lost 1,135 snaps from the position. I expect some of those will be eaten up by increased DL usage, however the lion's share will remain to be accounted for by the remaining OLB's.

I theorized that the team might be wise to keep Jones on the cheap as he seemed to begin getting comfortable in an edge role last season. They chose not to. I thought they might pursue a mid level veteran such as Sheard, Simon, Okafor, or Barwin. They sniffed around Barwin, but otherwise they chose not to sign anyone. I thought they might invest in a pass rusher high in the draft. While I really like Biegel and was high on him heading into the draft, they chose to pass on any of the more valuable guys (e.g. Bowser, Willis, Rivers).

So all that said, they are in something of a precarious spot at a really important position. They have injury prone starters in front of inexperience. Even if you optimistically predict that Perry and Matthews will manage 60% of the defense snaps each and that the DL will take on more snaps, Fackrell, Elliott, and a currently lame Biegel are still going to have to account for roughly 1,000 snaps between them. That seems like a tall order.

So what are the options at this point?

Veterans: Obviously in August, this talent pool is all but dried up. Paul Kruger, Trent Cole, Dwight Freeney, and Mario Williams are the most notable names still out there. Those guys are pretty much done at this point. Additionally, the only real chance they have to contribute is as designated pass rushers, so they wouldn't be much help on early downs.

Trades?: Trades in the NFL are, by definition, highly improbable. A couple names that occur to me as even the slightest possibilities include the Jets' Lorenzo Mauldin and the Redskins' Trent Murphy. The Jets might take what they can get as this is clearly a tank year. But even if they did, Mauldin has only proven to be a 4th or 5th option at best. The Redskins have Kerrigan, an emerging Preston Smith, a 2nd round pick in Ryan Anderson, and apparently Junior Galette looks all the way back from injury this offseason. Murphy has to serve a 4 game suspension, so if their depth holds and he's not in their future plans, maybe they'd move him? Neither scenario is anything close to probable, but I would absolutely love to acquire Murphy.

Camp Cuts?: Lamarr Houston comes to mind as a guy who might be let go in Chicago and fits the mold of a Jones or a Peppers in terms of size and style. He's been a disappointment for the Bears, but perhaps could provide some decent snaps here and there? Wes Horton might be the victim of a numbers game in Carolina.

UDFA: While not the most likely avenue to seriously help, this is the most likely avenue for the Packers to take. The only guy out of their current undrafted edge rushers that I can see making any sort of impact is Johnathan Calvin. He's 6'3" 266 lbs, he jumped a 34" vertical (58th% for EDGE) and a 115" broad (67% for EDGE), and he had a 7.08 3C (76th% for EDGE). His forty time and short shuttle were poor, though I tend to put the most stock in the jumps and the 3C. Additionally, he was actually pretty productive for Mississippi State. 55 total tackles, 11.5 for a loss, 7 sacks, 1 INT, 5 QB Hurries, 1 PBU, and 2 FF in 2016. That's nothing to sneeze at in the SEC. He was much quieter in 2015, with 27 tackles, 5.5 TFL, 1.5 Sacks, and 5 QB Hurries. So perhaps it's meant to be for John Calvin.

So there you have it-- a long winded lament with some theorizing regarding what I perceive to be the Packers' weakest link. May the starters stay healthy and the young guys step up.

If they do pick up another guy off the scrap heap, it would mean to me that Elliot and Fackrell aren't progressing as quickly as the staff hoped. It's not out of the realm of possibility that a UDFA like Calvin might become a backup that the staff likes. They might decide to go with just 5 OLB until Biegel comes back.

 

[AmishMafia]

Ted Thompson seems to be the most polarizing figure on this forum. Posters seem to want to categorize one another when it comes to the Packers' long time general manager as either haters or homers. Most of us, however, fall somewhere along a spectrum of satisfaction with the job Thompson does. I doubt anyone truly believes he's perfect, and no one (at least no one worth reading) actually thinks he's completely incompetent.

For myself, I tend to lean harder towards the side that's complimentary of the work he's done. On the whole, I think he's a great GM. However, this offseason, there has been one area on the roster where Thompson's decisions have been less than satisfactory to me, and that's at OLB. He basically had to keep Perry, and he did. I thought the contract was pretty fair, given Perry's ceiling when healthy coupled with his history with missing time. Thompson also chose to retain Matthews, which wasn't a shock-- this team rarely cuts players early.

Those moves left the Packers with two starting edge rushers who have been injured fairly often, and only actually played 59% and 46% of last year's defensive snaps respectively. They aren't horrible starters, but given their pasts and usages it would seem that depth is paramount. That's where Thompson lost me. I expected that Fackrell would be counted on more heavily, but that isn't going to be enough. Between Peppers and Jones, the team lost 1,135 snaps from the position. I expect some of those will be eaten up by increased DL usage, however the lion's share will remain to be accounted for by the remaining OLB's.

I theorized that the team might be wise to keep Jones on the cheap as he seemed to begin getting comfortable in an edge role last season. They chose not to. I thought they might pursue a mid level veteran such as Sheard, Simon, Okafor, or Barwin. They sniffed around Barwin, but otherwise they chose not to sign anyone. I thought they might invest in a pass rusher high in the draft. While I really like Biegel and was high on him heading into the draft, they chose to pass on any of the more valuable guys (e.g. Bowser, Willis, Rivers).

So all that said, they are in something of a precarious spot at a really important position. They have injury prone starters in front of inexperience. Even if you optimistically predict that Perry and Matthews will manage 60% of the defense snaps each and that the DL will take on more snaps, Fackrell, Elliott, and a currently lame Biegel are still going to have to account for roughly 1,000 snaps between them. That seems like a tall order.

So what are the options at this point?

Veterans: Obviously in August, this talent pool is all but dried up. Paul Kruger, Trent Cole, Dwight Freeney, and Mario Williams are the most notable names still out there. Those guys are pretty much done at this point. Additionally, the only real chance they have to contribute is as designated pass rushers, so they wouldn't be much help on early downs.

Trades?: Trades in the NFL are, by definition, highly improbable. A couple names that occur to me as even the slightest possibilities include the Jets' Lorenzo Mauldin and the Redskins' Trent Murphy. The Jets might take what they can get as this is clearly a tank year. But even if they did, Mauldin has only proven to be a 4th or 5th option at best. The Redskins have Kerrigan, an emerging Preston Smith, a 2nd round pick in Ryan Anderson, and apparently Junior Galette looks all the way back from injury this offseason. Murphy has to serve a 4 game suspension, so if their depth holds and he's not in their future plans, maybe they'd move him? Neither scenario is anything close to probable, but I would absolutely love to acquire Murphy.

Camp Cuts?: Lamarr Houston comes to mind as a guy who might be let go in Chicago and fits the mold of a Jones or a Peppers in terms of size and style. He's been a disappointment for the Bears, but perhaps could provide some decent snaps here and there? Wes Horton might be the victim of a numbers game in Carolina.

UDFA: While not the most likely avenue to seriously help, this is the most likely avenue for the Packers to take. The only guy out of their current undrafted edge rushers that I can see making any sort of impact is Johnathan Calvin. He's 6'3" 266 lbs, he jumped a 34" vertical (58th% for EDGE) and a 115" broad (67% for EDGE), and he had a 7.08 3C (76th% for EDGE). His forty time and short shuttle were poor, though I tend to put the most stock in the jumps and the 3C. Additionally, he was actually pretty productive for Mississippi State. 55 total tackles, 11.5 for a loss, 7 sacks, 1 INT, 5 QB Hurries, 1 PBU, and 2 FF in 2016. That's nothing to sneeze at in the SEC. He was much quieter in 2015, with 27 tackles, 5.5 TFL, 1.5 Sacks, and 5 QB Hurries. So perhaps it's meant to be for John Calvin.

So there you have it-- a long winded lament with some theorizing regarding what I perceive to be the Packers' weakest link. May the starters stay healthy and the young guys step up.

Well done and thorough. Keeping my fingers crossed that Perry and Clay make it the whole season. If we have great play from our OLBs, that's the most likely scenario. Next would be the emergence of Biegel. Getting beyond that gets rather doubtful

 

[Mondio]

It's the position i'm am most worried about as well for many of the same reasons you've stated. Injury to our bigger name guys, a lot of unknown, underpeforming younger guys etc. It's an important position in this defense and i have a lot f questions about it.

That said, outside of Barwin, I didn't see much to get excited about out there to get. Perry was signed and we needed to. Compared to other similar guys he got like half the guaranteed money or less even, so considering the circumstances it was a good signing I think.

I thought Jones would be retained, but he wasn't. He had quality snaps, but I don't think he was an answer. I hope Reggie Gilbert can at least provide a Frank Zombo type role this year and give us some quality from a young guy that was on the PS last year.

Outside of that, I think we'll be better in teh 2ndary and I do think we can expect more consistent push from interior of the DL this year as well. It will help, but I don't know if it can fully account for our seeming weakness at OLB. I don't think help will come from anywhere other than maybe some camp cuts.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There's absolutely no doubt in
my mind that quality depth at outside linebacker is a major concern entering this season, especially as Matthews and Perry mostly haven't been able to stay healthy for most of their careers.

That said, outside of Barwin, I didn't see much to get excited about out there to get.

What a surprise, while you admit that Thompson hasn't adequately addressed the position this offseason you had to add the caveat that there was once again nothing he could have done about it, just like at cornerback during the 2016 season.

 

[RepStar15]

Outside linebacker is by far our greatest concern. With so much of the cap spent at this position, this should not be the case. That is Ted Thompsons fault. We have spent in the top 5 in the league at the position, next to Denver, KC, Rams and the Bears but the production is not top 5 quality. Ted should have restructured CM3's contract a year ago.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

What a surprise, while you admit that Thompson hasn't adequately addressed the position this offseason you had to add the caveat that there was once again nothing he could have done about it, just like at cornerback during the 2016 season.

Snark aside, I agree with your position on this one. It's like TT has refused to take the OLB group in for an oil change, and now that the engine blew he's being forgiven for not having the proper parts to do an engine swap. I actually really, really like TT. I think that he was the GM we needed and has remained so for several years. Both he, and MM in my opinion though, along with the bulk of MM's coaching tree, ceased to be the most effective group for this team around 2011-2013.

There isn't a ton better out there of the usual stock of names, but these guys are also no longer effective in providing what this team needs to be successful.

 

[Dantés]

Snark aside, I agree with your position on this one. It's like TT has refused to take the OLB group in for an oil change, and now that the engine blew he's being forgiven for not having the proper parts to do an engine swap. I actually really, really like TT. I think that he was the GM we needed and has remained so for several years. Both he, and MM in my opinion though, along with the bulk of MM's coaching tree, ceased to be the most effective group for this team around 2011-2013.

There isn't a ton better out there of the usual stock of names, but these guys are also no longer effective in providing what this team needs to be successful.

So what then, they keep falling *** backwards into the playoffs by accident?

 

[Dantés]

There's absolutely no doubt in
my mind that quality depth at outside linebacker is a major concern entering this season, especially as Matthews and Perry mostly haven't been able to stay healthy for most of their careers.



What a surprise, while you admit that Thompson hasn't adequately addressed the position this offseason you had to add the caveat that there was once again nothing he could have done about it, just like at cornerback during the 2016 season.

What a surprise, while he agrees with the basic premise of this thread you had to pick a fight because you caught a whiff of positive spin, just like always it would seem.

 

[C-Lee]

What we need to happen with the OLB core:

- Clay bounce back. You're making too much money to be this average. Step up, big guy.
- Perry to stay healthy. Last season proved he's NICE when healthy.
- Jayrone Elliot has a breakout year. I feel like every time this guy has played, he's done something productive, but he can't seem to stay healthy.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

So what then, they keep falling *** backwards into the playoffs by accident?

It's a fallacy to presume that if you are good enough to go part of the way, you are good enough to go all of the way. You can have the opinion that there are no better options to give this team the best chance to go all the way. That's fine. I do not have that opinion. I think that the fit for what this team need and what TT/MM and Co provide no longer fit well.

I think that TT is an all time great administrator, and a well above average talent scout. I think that TT is bad at higher level negotiating and anticipating roster needs, both facets of the personnel movement and management department. What we need right now is a guy who is equal or better at talent scouting while being far better at personnel management and accrual. I don't mean going and getting big name FAs, but it does require a bit more looking outside than this group does. I think MM is great at tactical playcalling and finding coaching talent, but I think he is terrible at strategic thinking during games and gets far too attached to his coaches and is unwilling to institute turnover within "his" guys. I also think that he is not very good at enforcing getting the best production from his position coaches. We need a guy who can get better enforce the work of the position coaches, and can also work the strategic end of the game better. Or, if not the latter, a guy who is willing to bring in better O and D coordinators (given that MM is pretty much also O coordinator) to do the strategic work. DC is another tactical guy, not a strategic guy, imo.

Thus, while they are very good at some things and fantastic at others, those things they have already imparted the results to this team to a high level. Those bars are filled. On the other hand, the areas where they lack our team lacks heavily, and could certainly do with better management in those areas.

I don't see how this is controversial.

 

[Sky King]

What a surprise, while he agrees with the basic premise of this thread you had to pick a fight because you caught a whiff of positive spin, just like always it would seem.

It's a getting in the last word thing.

 

[Dantés]

It's a fallacy to presume that if you are good enough to go part of the way, you are good enough to go all of the way. You can have the opinion that there are no better options to give this team the best chance to go all the way. That's fine. I do not have that opinion. I think that the fit for what this team need and what TT/MM and Co provide no longer fit well.

I think that TT is an all time great administrator, and a well above average talent scout. I think that TT is bad at higher level negotiating and anticipating roster needs, both facets of the personnel movement and management department. What we need right now is a guy who is equal or better at talent scouting while being far better at personnel management and accrual. I don't mean going and getting big name FAs, but it does require a bit more looking outside than this group does. I think MM is great at tactical playcalling and finding coaching talent, but I think he is terrible at strategic thinking during games and gets far too attached to his coaches and is unwilling to institute turnover within "his" guys. I also think that he is not very good at enforcing getting the best production from his position coaches. We need a guy who can get better enforce the work of the position coaches, and can also work the strategic end of the game better. Or, if not the latter, a guy who is willing to bring in better O and D coordinators (given that MM is pretty much also O coordinator) to do the strategic work. DC is another tactical guy, not a strategic guy, imo.

Thus, while they are very good at some things and fantastic at others, those things they have already imparted the results to this team to a high level. Those bars are filled. On the other hand, the areas where they lack our team lacks heavily, and could certainly do with better management in those areas.

I don't see how this is controversial.

You don't see how it's controversial as in, it's just your opinion or as in, this opinion is self-evidently true?

Because I don't see how we can judge that a GM/HC/QB combination that actually has won a Super Bowl is necessarily not the right group to do it again.

I'm pretty sure that since these guys got together, they're 2nd in the NFL in wins. They've only failed to reach double digits twice, 2008 and 2013. They've made the playoffs 8 straight seasons. As mentioned, they have the one ring, and they have an overall winning record in the playoffs (9-7). It's true that they haven't won another ring-- yet. But they've been knocking on the door. Even the Patriots, the greatest dynasty of all time and the indisputable class of the league, went 10 years between SB wins. I'm guessing that there were some Patriot fans who felt about BB/TB the way that you do about TT/MM/AR during that dry spell.

I respect that you have your own opinions of these guys. I likewise see some shortcomings. I agree that Thompson needs to open things up a little bit in free agency (as he did this offseason). I would also argue that MM is too tied to specific formations/approaches on offense and that he probably needs to move on from his DC.

However, the list of people who are better than these guys at their jobs is pretty dang short. If you let one of them go because you like your chances of finding someone who's actually better, you're most likely going to end up disappointed.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

You don't see how it's controversial as in, it's just your opinion or as in, this opinion is self-evidently true?

I'm having a week of terrible communication skills all around. The "not controversial" comment was meant to be attached to my last statement, about the 'they've already made us good at the things they are good at, and we have gotten worse at the things they are bad at' piece - and, honestly, it seems less incontrovertible now than when I wrote it, but whatever - I woke up to my work alarm this morning and though how it was a lovely rainy saturday morning and maybe Id sleep in for another hour or two and then make some breakfast and enjoy coffee on the porch. Was still confused when work called - and that has been the theme of my day XD

I need to just read and lurk again for a while lol. If I'm feeling brave/foolish enough, Ill comment on the rest of your post later - it was a good one.

 

[Dantés]

I'm having a week of terrible communication skills all around. The "not controversial" comment was meant to be attached to my last statement, about the 'they've already made us good at the things they are good at, and we have gotten worse at the things they are bad at' piece.

I need to just read and lurk again for a while lol. If I'm feeling brave/foolish enough, Ill comment on the rest of your post later - it was a good one.

No, it's all good. We get a lot of fodder out of the misunderstandings. I felt pretty darn impressive arguing against what you didn't mean.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I actually really, really like TT. I think that he was the GM we needed and has remained so for several years. Both he, and MM in my opinion though, along with the bulk of MM's coaching tree, ceased to be the most effective group for this team around 2011-2013.

I truly believe the Packers are absolutely fine with McCarthy being the head coach. The proof is in the pudding that Thompson and Capers aren't a good fit on the defensive side of the ball.

What a surprise, while he agrees with the basic premise of this thread you had to pick a fight because you caught a whiff of positive spin, just like always it would seem.

It seems that I missed the memo about you having been named a moderator around here. I wasn't replying to one of your posts so there's no need for you to intervene for the upteenth time by any means.

Because I don't see how we can judge that a GM/HC/QB combination that actually has won a Super Bowl is necessarily not the right group to do it again.

The 2010 roster was heavily influenced by the work of Schneider, McKenzie and Dorsey as well. Thompson hasn't been able to provide the defense with sufficient talent since all of them left though.

 

[Dantés]

I truly believe the Packers are absolutely fine with McCarthy being the head coach. The proof is in the pudding that Thompson and Capers aren't a good fit on the defensive side of the ball.



It seems that I missed the memo about you having been named a moderator around here. I wasn't replying to one of your posts so there's no need for you to intervene for the upteenth time by any means.



The 2010 roster was heavily influenced by the work of Schneider, McKenzie and Dorsey as well. Thompson hasn't been able to provide the defense with sufficient talent since all of them left though.

Lol Captain... as if you only ever reply to posts directed at you.

 

[PackAttack12]

Lol Captain... as if you only ever reply to posts directed at you.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Lol Captain... as if you only ever reply to posts directed at you.

I don't jump in to interfere in a discussion between two posters that has been going on for several years without being asked by anybody to though.

 

[Dantés]

I don't jump in to interfere in a discussion between two posters that has been going on for several years without being asked by anybody to though.

Oh you don't need to ask, bud!

 

[PikeBadger]

I truly believe the Packers are absolutely fine with McCarthy being the head coach. The proof is in the pudding that Thompson and Capers aren't a good fit on the defensive side of the ball.

The 2010 roster was heavily influenced by the work of Schneider, McKenzie and Dorsey as well. Thompson hasn't been able to provide the defense with sufficient talent since all of them left though.

They must have been a very good fit in 2010 when they had the #2 scoring defense in the league and the offense was the laggard.

The very next season with just about the exact same defensive starters except we had Burnett instead of Collins they finished 19th in scoring defense and blew a 15-1 season by getting blown out by the Giants.

So, the 2011 roster was heavily influenced as well by those three. It was the same talent and players.

Imo, the demise of the defense had less to do with talent and more to do with the complete collapse of Raji, and the decline in play from Matthews mostly due to injury.

Thompson's failure imo was Raji. He was being counted on heavily to be a lynchpin and he repeatedly failed to provide the effort needed from him. A truly exceptional talent wasted because he had a pathetic work ethic. He and Pickett would sit around and get fat and sloppy in the off-season. Both of them lacked professionalism and in retrospect I believe we would have been better off had Thompson found a way to get rid of both of them.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They must have been a very good fit in 2010 when they had the #2 scoring defense in the league and the offense was the laggard.

It's true that the defense was successful early during Capers' tenure with the Packers but there's no denying the unit has struggled over the past six seasons, making it a distinct memory that the combination of Thompson and DC was a decent fit. There's room for interpretation about the reasons for the regress though.

Thompson's failure imo was Raji. He was being counted on heavily to be a lynchpin and he repeatedly failed to provide the effort needed from him. A truly exceptional talent wasted because he had a pathetic work ethic. He and Pickett would sit around and get fat and sloppy in the off-season. Both of them lacked professionalism and in retrospect I believe we would have been better off had Thompson found a way to get rid of both of them.

Thompson drafted an extremely talented player in Raji. He's definitely not the one to blame for him not staying motivated in the long haul.

 

[PikeBadger]

It's true that the defense was successful early during Capers' tenure with the Packers but there's no denying the unit has struggled over the past six seasons, making it a distinct memory that the combination of Thompson and DC was a decent fit. There's room for interpretation about the reasons for the regress though.



Thompson drafted an extremely talented player in Raji. He's definitely not the one to blame for him not staying motivated in the long haul.

No doubt about the talent level of Raji. His intangible flaws were apparently not identified or taken into consideration during the scouting process. We paid dearly for that error imo.

 

[mradtke66]

No doubt about the talent level of Raji. His intangible flaws were apparently not identified or taken into consideration during the scouting process. We paid dearly for that error imo.

Eh. We won a Super Bowl with him being a key part of the team.

Sucks that we didn't get a proper second contract out of him (proper as in ignoring the 2x 1-year rental deals), but he did play 6 years for us.

You want more, but his was not a bad career.

 

[Pkrjones]

Eh. We won a Super Bowl with him being a key part of the team.

Sucks that we didn't get a proper second contract out of him (proper as in ignoring the 2x 1-year rental deals), but he did play 6 years for us.

You want more, but his was not a bad career.

"Not a bad career" is not what the team needed from a #9 pick. Those guys are counted on to be core players for (imho) more than 6 years. TT had to use multiple high picks (Worthy, Daniels, Thornton, Jones) because GB didn't have that interior DL stud for years. It IS on TT (& Capers for whatever input he had) for whiffing on most of those "replacement" picks, however.

On topic - TT relies on these guys developing and stepping-up in years 2 & 3. Time for Elliot and Fackrell to step-up or move along. I'm guessing TT will be watching the preseason intently for OLB's to scoop-up when cuts happen.