The Weakest Link: Outside Linebacker

[Dantés]

"Not a bad career" is not what the team needed from a #9 pick. Those guys are counted on to be core players for (imho) more than 6 years. TT had to use multiple high picks (Worthy, Daniels, Thornton, Jones) because GB didn't have that interior DL stud for years. It IS on TT (& Capers for whatever input he had) for whiffing on most of those "replacement" picks, however.

On topic - TT relies on these guys developing and stepping-up in years 2 & 3. Time for Elliot and Fackrell to step-up or move along. I'm guessing TT will be watching the preseason intently for OLB's to scoop-up when cuts happen.

It's kind of hard to be too tough on the pick in the context of the entire top 10 that year:

1. Matthew Stafford
2. Jason Smith
3. Tyson Jackson
4. Aaron Curry
5. Mark Sanchez
6. Andre Smith
7. Darrius Heyward-Bey
8. Eugene Monroe
9. B.J. Raji
10. Michael Crabtree

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My concern for the OLB position is based on last year, a year that most everyone was saying "We need to improve at OLB to be better on defense". So what happens in the offseason to "improve it"? TT lets Peppers and Jones walk and drafts Biegel. So either TT once again is extremely confident in improvement from his reserves (Fackrell and Elliott) or he is counting on Perry and Matthews to not only stay healthy, but for both to play at a level equal to what they are being paid, something Matthews hasn't done in a few years and Perry has done it once, his contract year.

So yes, the concern is warranted IMO. Can we pick-up castoffs from other teams? Of course we can, but what are the odds they are any good and if that need exists now, didn't it exist during the Free Agency period? I don't consider drafting Biegel a full answer to the need (especially for the 2017 season), even had he not gotten injured.

If the OLB's fail this year, many will be quick to blame Capers once again, but IMO, that failure would fall squarely on the shoulders of Mr Ted Thompson for not recognizing a need before it became a thorn.

 

[rodell330]

Maybe if the olbs could stay healthy this wouldn't be the weak link on defense. Sad thing is they can't. Maybe they need to reduce Clays role by taking away some of his snaps. I'd really look into limiting his snap count by as much as 15-20 less per game. Even In some points in the game I'd only use him on obvious passing downs for a couple series. Rather have him fresh down the stretch... vs him having some lingering shoulder, knee, or hamstring issue.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe if the olbs could stay healthy this wouldn't be the weak link on defense. Sad thing is they can't. Maybe they need to reduce Clays role by taking away some of his snaps. I'd really look into limiting his snap count by as much as 15-20 less per game. Even In some points in the game I'd only use him on obvious passing downs for a couple series. Rather have him fresh down the stretch... vs him having some lingering shoulder, knee, or hamstring issue.

Agreed. The problem is, who picks up his snaps along with the ones already lost when Peppers and Jones weren't resigned?

Clay is 2 years out from a new contract.......he might play like a stud this year with an eye on that, as well as to avoid being just outright cut next year to save 100% of his $11.4M cap hit in 2018, but I wouldn't bank on seeing the old #52.

 

[PikeBadger]

Eh. We won a Super Bowl with him being a key part of the team.

Sucks that we didn't get a proper second contract out of him (proper as in ignoring the 2x 1-year rental deals), but he did play 6 years for us.

You want more, but his was not a bad career.

Agree that he was an important cog in the 2010 defense. Imo, we only got about 2 and a half seasons of good play out of Raji. He was dismal for most of the remainder of his 6 years here. I believe that mgmt and staff were relying on good production out of him. He was undependable and unreliable and the defense suffered because of it. It's very possible he was misused but I can see where the staff would expect consistently good play from a #9 pick.

 

[PikeBadger]

"Not a bad career" is not what the team needed from a #9 pick. Those guys are counted on to be core players for (imho) more than 6 years. TT had to use multiple high picks (Worthy, Daniels, Thornton, Jones) because GB didn't have that interior DL stud for years. It IS on TT (& Capers for whatever input he had) for whiffing on most of those "replacement" picks, however.

On topic - TT relies on these guys developing and stepping-up in years 2 & 3. Time for Elliot and Fackrell to step-up or move along. I'm guessing TT will be watching the preseason intently for OLB's to scoop-up when cuts happen.

It's Fackrell's second season. I think he's going to be given more time to improve than Elliot.

 

[Sky King]

Today's Cohen podcast broaches the subject, at least regarding Fackrell it does:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...ck-down-before-1st-exhibition-game/543700001/
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...ck-down-before-1st-exhibition-game/543700001/
It's going to be a problem if Fackrell does not live up to obvious expectations.

 

[rodell330]

Agreed. The problem is, who picks up his snaps along with the ones already lost when Peppers and Jones weren't resigned?

Clay is 2 years out from a new contract.......he might play like a stud this year with an eye on that, as well as to avoid being just outright cut next year to save 100% of his $11.4M cap hit in 2018, but I wouldn't bank on seeing the old #52.

That's where you'd hope guys like Elliott and Fackrell can emerge. Maybe you get create in your scheme and use Morgan Burnett and Jones more in the box. Guys who can tackle
And help defend the pass. On third down and passing downs I'd honestly have matthews or perry as the only lbs on the field anyways and have four safeties in the game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's where you'd hope guys like Elliott and Fackrell can emerge. Maybe you get create in your scheme and use Morgan Burnett and Jones more in the box. Guys who can tackle
And help defend the pass. On third down and passing downs I'd honestly have matthews or perry as the only lbs on the field anyways and have four safeties in the game.

Sounds vaguely familiar to the strategy on defense for the past......6 or 7 years. "Hope this guy steps up", "maybe we can slide this guy over to this position", repeat and rinse. No wonder our defense can't get the job done under Capers complicated schemes.

 

[PikeBadger]

It's kind of hard to be too tough on the pick in the context of the entire top 10 that year:

1. Matthew Stafford
2. Jason Smith
3. Tyson Jackson
4. Aaron Curry
5. Mark Sanchez
6. Andre Smith
7. Darrius Heyward-Bey
8. Eugene Monroe
9. B.J. Raji
10. Michael Crabtree

Good point. We could have nabbed Ziggy Hood at pick 30? He is still playing. Wasn't near as productive as Raji in 2010 though. Bet he outplayed Raji in 11,12 & 13 though when Raji was in hibernation.

 

[Dantés]

The Patriots have apparently put Kony Ealy on the block. That they're willing to deal him after just trading for him obviously isn't a mark in his favor, but he's talented and has been reasonably productive. He would certainly be an upgrade to the Packers' rotation. I wonder what New England would take for him.

 

[easyk83]

Snark aside, I agree with your position on this one. It's like TT has refused to take the OLB group in for an oil change, and now that the engine blew he's being forgiven for not having the proper parts to do an engine swap. I actually really, really like TT. I think that he was the GM we needed and has remained so for several years. Both he, and MM in my opinion though, along with the bulk of MM's coaching tree, ceased to be the most effective group for this team around 2011-2013.

There isn't a ton better out there of the usual stock of names, but these guys are also no longer effective in providing what this team needs to be successful.

Letting Peppers go, fine. But how does he not keep Datone Jones on a short 1-2 year deal?

 

[easyk83]

My concern for the OLB position is based on last year, a year that most everyone was saying "We need to improve at OLB to be better on defense". So what happens in the offseason to "improve it"? TT lets Peppers and Jones walk and drafts Biegel. So either TT once again is extremely confident in improvement from his reserves (Fackrell and Elliott) or he is counting on Perry and Matthews to not only stay healthy, but for both to play at a level equal to what they are being paid, something Matthews hasn't done in a few years and Perry has done it once, his contract year.

So yes, the concern is warranted IMO. Can we pick-up castoffs from other teams? Of course we can, but what are the odds they are any good and if that need exists now, didn't it exist during the Free Agency period? I don't consider drafting Biegel a full answer to the need (especially for the 2017 season), even had he not gotten injured.

If the OLB's fail this year, many will be quick to blame Capers once again, but IMO, that failure would fall squarely on the shoulders of Mr Ted Thompson for not recognizing a need before it became a thorn.

I didnt see the outside rush as a problem last year, hard to rush the passer when receivers are consistently getting open within 2 seconds of the snap. But it certainly is a concern this year, weak depth and two injury prone starters.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Patriots have apparently put Kony Ealy on the block. That they're willing to deal him after just trading for him obviously isn't a mark in his favor, but he's talented and has been reasonably productive. He would certainly be an upgrade to the Packers' rotation. I wonder what New England would take for him.

If it´s true that Belichick is ready to trade Ealy only a few months after acquiring him the Packers should be extremely cautious giving up anything in return for the edge rusher.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Letting Peppers go, fine. But how does he not keep Datone Jones on a short 1-2 year deal?

It was definitely a mistake to let both Peppers and Jones walk away in free agency and only add Biegel to the depth chart at outside linebacker.

 

[Dantés]

If it´s true that Belichick is ready to trade Ealy only a few months after acquiring him the Packers should be extremely cautious giving up anything in return for the edge rusher.

If they would take a late round pick, I'd be ok with it. We've seen enough of him on the field to know he is capable as a backup, even if he's an underachiever.

 

[easyk83]

It was definitely a mistake to let both Peppers and Jones walk away in free agency and only add Biegel to the depth chart at outside linebacker.

Ive been a steadfast TT backer but some of his moves or lack thereof mystify me, you'd think he'd be more careful with his position groups after what happened the last two years. True OLB wont start the year wont start the position of strength but it's a position that just scares me as a fan.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ive been a steadfast TT backer but some of his moves or lack thereof mystify me, you'd think he'd be more careful with his position groups after what happened the last two years.

Unfortunately it has taken Thompson way too long to adequately address several positions of obvious need in a timely fashion since the Packers won the Super Bowl six years ago. This season there are question marks about the quality depth at the offensive line as well as edge rusher and the overall talent level at cornerback and possibly inside linebacker although Capers heavily using the nitro package might take care of the latter.

 

[C-Lee]

Nick Perry is a beast when he's healthy, last year showed that.

If he stays healthy again, and Clay has a bounce back year, I think we'll be okay (I know it shouldn't come down to "ifs" but that's what it is right now, it could happen)

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Nick Perry is a beast when he's healthy, last year showed that.

If he stays healthy again, and Clay has a bounce back year, I think we'll be okay (I know it shouldn't come down to "ifs" but that's what it is right now, it could happen)

Even if Matthews and Perry perform at a high level while staying healthy all season the Packers need some quality depth as both starters won´t be able to play close to 100% of the defensive snaps.

 

[Dantés]

Nick Perry is a beast when he's healthy, last year showed that.

If he stays healthy again, and Clay has a bounce back year, I think we'll be okay (I know it shouldn't come down to "ifs" but that's what it is right now, it could happen)

Yeah, it's just that those two players don't have a great track record of staying healthy. That's fine, but it highlights the importance of depth. The Packers' depth is almost entirely unproven.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I didnt see the outside rush as a problem last year, hard to rush the passer when receivers are consistently getting open within 2 seconds of the snap. But it certainly is a concern this year, weak depth and two injury prone starters.

Ive been a steadfast TT backer but some of his moves or lack thereof mystify me, you'd think he'd be more careful with his position groups after what happened the last two years. True OLB wont start the year wont start the position of strength but it's a position that just scares me as a fan.

I am a bit confused by those 2 statements. Is your fear this year because we lost Peppers and Jones and only drafted Biegel?

While I agree with you that the OLB position last year wasn't helped out by a terrible secondary, I didn't really see it as being all that good or maybe I should say consistent. Perry was the only one who stood out to me.

At least we both share that same fear this year. Unless CMIII gets back to his old self and both him and Perry stay healthy and we get some production out of the backups, I think it could be a really long season for the OLB's.

 

[PackAttack12]

At least we both share that same fear this year. Unless CMIII gets back to his old self and both him and Perry stay healthy and we get some production out of the backups, I think it could be a really long season for the OLB's.

Clay needs to get back on the juice.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Clay needs to get back on the juice.

I'm thinking Prune juice!

 

[easyk83]

I am a bit confused by those 2 statements. Is your fear this year because we lost Peppers and Jones and only drafted Biegel?

While I agree with you that the OLB position last year wasn't helped out by a terrible secondary, I didn't really see it as being all that good or maybe I should say consistent. Perry was the only one who stood out to me.

At least we both share that same fear this year. Unless CMIII gets back to his old self and both him and Perry stay healthy and we get some production out of the backups, I think it could be a really long season for the OLB's.

I thought the group was a good one last year all things considered. I thought that Peppers still had game, Perry had a breakout year and while Matthews couldn't stay healthy, as usual him, and Peppers formed a solid platoon opposite of Perry. Jones also flashed ability outside although he was clearly still adjusting to the position change. We've lost our second and fourth best OLBs from last season, that hurts.

As for the unit it really tough to judge the pass rush when you're coverage is that bad. Perry produced rush, and a platoon of Matthews Peppers produced 12.5 sacks which combined with Perry's 11 is pretty good production from the position group given our putrid secondary. CMIII showed more natural ability than many acknowledge last year for the couple of games that he was healthyish and heck he even got pressure and hits against Atlanta and the playoffs. Truth is I think our pass rush helped cover up how awful our secondary really was, which is saying something.