The path for Aaron Rodgers to become the GOAT

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think commenting on a point of fact equates to whining.

It's a fact the Packers weren't one of the most injured teams in the league last season and that they only missed a single week 1 starter on defense entering the NFCCG. On top of that the front office had 19 weeks to make up for the loss of Shields but decided it was best to stand pat although the cornerbacks struggled mightily all season.

It's a subjective opinion the team wasn't able toovercome an insurmountable number of injuries and a pretty lame excuse for not having enough talent on the roster.

 

[rmontro]

Even if Rodgers is the best quarterback ever, if you can't convert that into championships, what good is it? All you've done is waste the opportunity. We're supposed to have one of the best franchises and administrations in football, let's prove it.

Starr's record over 3 years before Lombardi. 3-15-1. Not a QB most coaches today would keep.

And some say coaches don't make a difference, it's all the players.

It's a fact the Packers weren't one of the most injured teams in the league last season and that they only missed a single week 1 starter on defense entering the NFCCG. On top of that the front office had 19 weeks to make up for the loss of Shields but decided it was best to stand pat although the cornerbacks struggled mightily all season.

I agree with that assessment, although maybe he thought Capers should have adjusted better. Someone, might have even been you, noted that Capers doesn't like to give his corners help.

 

[BrokenArrow]

It's a fact the Packers weren't one of the most injured teams in the league last season and that they only missed a single week 1 starter on defense entering the NFCCG. On top of that the front office had 19 weeks to make up for the loss of Shields but decided it was best to stand pat although the cornerbacks struggled mightily all season.

It's a subjective opinion the team wasn't able toovercome an insurmountable number of injuries and a pretty lame excuse for not having enough talent on the roster.

...which has exactly what to do with Rodgers being the greatest?

 

[SoonerPack]

Did any of you hear Colin Cowherd's argument today as to why Rodgers' TD to INT ratio is overrated?

Utter blasphemy.

Cowturd is both a hack and a complete and utter contrarian. He chooses opposite sides of nearly every reasonable thought and does it for a reason, shock value. He bangs on AR every chance he can and his personal animus comes through the mic in living color. AR is a different cat and does things his way when dealing with the media very similarly to Russ Westbrook, who CC hates as well. I understand if you don't want to rate AR12 as the best ever but to discredit such an amazing statistic shows how petty the man truly is. I have friends ranging from Cowboy fans (living in OK, I am surrounded by them!), Steeler fans to Bucs fans. Every single one of them that have seen the stat just shake their head and comment on how ridiculous it is considering the throws he makes. I like fresh content with fresh opinions and that is something a guy like Turd rarely offers. If I already know what you are going to say before you say it, you are stale. Next time you listen to him just choose the contrarian side of the argument and listen to CC ramble on with the same contrived take you already knew he was about to drop. H A C K. He even gets onto AR for the same stuff he gives his boy TB a pass on. I used to like listening to him but the bigger he has gotten the worse he has become. 297/72 is amazing. Period.

 

[rmontro]

Cowturd is both a hack and a complete and utter contrarian. He chooses opposite sides of nearly every reasonable thought and does it for a reason, shock value. He bangs on AR every chance he can and his personal animus comes through the mic in living color.

I don't think Cowherd "bangs on AR every chance he can" at all. Skip Bayless does. Cowherd has said repeatedly that if he was starting a team and could draft any player first, it would be Aaron Rodgers. My observation is that he is usually quite complimentary of Rodgers. Rodgers is an amazing quarterback, maybe the best ever, but I don't think that means he should be above criticism. CC was correct in saying that QBs these days are not throwing as many INTs as they used to.

That doesn't mean I agree with what he said, but he's not the first person to say that Rodgers holds the ball too long. People have said that for years, especially when the sack totals pile up.

My main criticism of Cowherd is that he is inconsistent. He'll spout one opinion, then contradict himself months or even days later. Maybe he just changes his mind. Probably what happens with these talking heads is they talk about a subject, and they're on a panel, and someone agrees to argue a certain position. Sort of like debate class. But I don't think he slams on Rodgers just to slam on him, like Skip Bayless does routinely.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I have heard Colin Blowhard praise AR, it usually is at a moment in the season where he would look like an even bigger idiot than he already is, if he didn't. I have to agree with Sooner, some of these guys like Blowhard and Skip ****less can be mildly entertaining at first, but after awhile I start hearing Charlie Brown's teacher doing nothing but self flatulating weak or baseless points about guys they just don't like. Why don't they like them? Probably because players like AR are not kissing their butts and aren't afraid to call them out.

One of the most classic moments in my mind of "Aaron Rodgers VS the media" was when he made CBS reporter Dennis Dodd look like a total fool on Twitter after a Badger Basketball game.

http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-shuts-down-manbaby-reporter-1694493911

 

[SoonerPack]

I don't think Cowherd "bangs on AR every chance he can" at all. Skip Bayless does. Cowherd has said repeatedly that if he was starting a team and could draft any player first, it would be Aaron Rodgers. My observation is that he is usually quite complimentary of Rodgers. Rodgers is an amazing quarterback, maybe the best ever, but I don't think that means he should be above criticism. CC was correct in saying that QBs these days are not throwing as many INTs as they used to.

That doesn't mean I agree with what he said, but he's not the first person to say that Rodgers holds the ball too long. People have said that for years, especially when the sack totals pile up.

My main criticism of Cowherd is that he is inconsistent. He'll spout one opinion, then contradict himself months or even days later. Maybe he just changes his mind. Probably what happens with these talking heads is they talk about a subject, and they're on a panel, and someone agrees to argue a certain position. Sort of like debate class. But I don't think he slams on Rodgers just to slam on him, like Skip Bayless does routinely.

We must be listening to different shows. "AR is aloof." "AR isn't much of a leader." "AR is Jay Cutler with a ring." His compliments are typically backhanded which in my eyes negates the "compliment." Hell, my buddy Ben, who is a die-hard Pats fan, messages me once a week during the season asking what CC has against AR. I am not here saying AR is above reproach. Hammer him all you want when it's called for but the constant jabs about his attitude, leadership skills, etc. get old. He constantly refers to the Jennings comments as the backbone of his argument. The same Jennings that was jaded over being released, which was the proper decision. He even had AJ Hawk on his show and kept trying to bait him until finally AJ told him he was off base with his synopsis of AR and his leadership abilities. Again, hammer him all you want but try and use fact and not conjecture is all I ask...

As to the statement of less INT's being thrown thereby lessening the wow factor of AR's #'s:

Last Two Seasons:

Ben Roethlisberger: 29 INT's and he missed 7 games
Eli Manning: 30 INT's
Andrew Luck: 25 INT's and he missed 10 games
Philip Rivers: 34 INT's
Drew Brees: 26 INT's
Matt Ryan: 23 INT's
Cam Newton: 24 INT's
Matthew Stafford: 23 INT's
Carson Palmer: 25 INT's
Joe Flacco: 27 INT's

The guys above are considered some of the best in the game. Between them all the average is 26.6 INT's over the last two seasons or 13.3 per. Over the course of his starter career, AR has averaged 7.8 INT's per season and those numbers are skewed a little against him as I didn't eliminate the 7 games he missed in 09. Guys are still turning the ball over plenty and it's not like AR doesn't put the ball in some crazy tight spots. The throws he makes all while protecting the rock is like nothing the league has ever seen before and trying to diminish the accomplishment is silly bordering on stupid IMO.

 

[SoonerPack]

While I have heard Colin Blowhard praise AR, it usually is at a moment in the season where he would look like an even bigger idiot than he already is, if he didn't. I have to agree with Sooner, some of these guys like Blowhard and Skip ****less can be mildly entertaining at first, but after awhile I start hearing Charlie Brown's teacher doing nothing but self flatulating weak or baseless points about guys they just don't like. Why don't they like them? Probably because players like AR are not kissing their butts and aren't afraid to call them out.

One of the most classic moments in my mind of "Aaron Rodgers VS the media" was when he made CBS reporter Dennis Dodd look like a total fool on Twitter after a Badger Basketball game.

http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-shuts-down-manbaby-reporter-1694493911

Exactly. He throws out soft compliments when he knows he's about to wear some egg. Again, the compliment is typically accompanied by a subtle jab at AR's leadership flaws. Yeah, a guy that says "RELAX" and "we're going to run the table" only to have his team rally behind him obviously has no leadership ability.

Say it with me, C O N T R A R I A N

 

[rmontro]

Eh, all the sports shows gave a platform to Jennings' complaints. It's the kind of dirty laundry type stuff they love.
Cowherd may not be Rodgers biggest fan, but he's always said he would take him first in a draft, I've heard him say that repeatedly, so you can't tell me he doesn't respect him as a player. Not like Skip Bayless, who goes to ridiculous measures to dismiss him.

 

[PackAttack12]

Colin Cowherd isn't even on the same planet as Skip Bayless on mindless Rodgers bashing.

Lebron James and Aaron Rodgers might be the only reason this clown is still on TV.

 

[SoonerPack]

Saying he's not as bad as Skip isn't a particularly strong argument on CC's behalf. In the end it really doesn't matter at all what CC or any of us think. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and no matter how much I dislike the guy, he has a national show and I don't. Ha!

Lastly, there is NOTHING anyone could say to make me not say WOW when I look at AR's TD/INT ratio. It is out of this world and guys are still throwing plenty of picks as I showed above.

 

[SoonerPack]

Skip is the worst on-air personality in all of sports. I don't think that's debatable.

 

[PackAttack12]

Saying he's not as bad as Skip isn't a particularly strong argument on CC's behalf. In the end it really doesn't matter at all what CC or any of us think. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and no matter how much I dislike the guy, he has a national show and I don't. Ha!

Lastly, there is NOTHING anyone could say to make me not say WOW when I look at AR's TD/INT ratio. It is out of this world and guys are still throwing plenty of picks as I showed above.

It's utterly senseless to find fault with a TD to INT ratio of over 4 to 1. Football games in the NFL, more so than any other level, are won and lost on turnover margin. At the end of the day, he's scoring 28 points before he gives the opposition an opportunity to get even one additional score.

I haven't double checked on this, but Shannon Sharpe said that since winning the Super Bowl, his TD to INT ratio is over 5 to 1. That's a 6 year sample size.

Remarkable.

 

[SoonerPack]

The argument of the GOAT always comes down to rings and I can understand that but it doesn't paint the entire picture. I maintain if AR is given a half way decent D, the rings will follow. Brady has been the beneficiary of some really solid defenses and capitalized. I remain hopeful we can put a worthy defense on the field sooner rather than later thereby allowing AR a few more shots at more hardware. From a talent standpoint, I believe AR stands in a class all his own.

 

[Packer Brother]

We all know whose fault it is this team hasn't gotten further. It's the damm president & GM. Why the prez? Because he allows his gm to consistently ignore the D & have this weird obsession on " Draft and develop". That mantra is all well and good if your the Cleveland Browns. Not if your the Green Bay frickin Packers. Not if you have an all time HOF QB.

So unfortunately Rodgers has little chance of being the goat ( When you factor in titles), as long as this management team is around.

February 6th 2011 was a long time ago.

 

[Packer Brother]

The argument of the GOAT always comes down to rings and I can understand that but it doesn't paint the entire picture. I maintain if AR is given a half way decent D, the rings will follow. Brady has been the beneficiary of some really solid defenses and capitalized. I remain hopeful we can put a worthy defense on the field sooner rather than later thereby allowing AR a few more shots at more hardware. From a talent standpoint, I believe AR stands in a class all his own.

Let's also not forget NE is a Darrell Bevil brain fart, & Atlanta Falcons using common sense away from being 0-4 in the big game since 2005.

The Packers were a botched onside kick away from possibly meeting & beating NE that year. Remember they had beaten them two months prior. Others would look at Brady ( And AR) much differently.

 

[NJPackfan..]

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[ExpatPacker]

Skip is the worst on-air personality in all of sports. I don't think that's debatable.

Which is what he is counting on to keep him in business.

 

[ExpatPacker]

The argument of the GOAT always comes down to rings and I can understand that but it doesn't paint the entire picture. I maintain if AR is given a half way decent D, the rings will follow. Brady has been the beneficiary of some really solid defenses and capitalized. I remain hopeful we can put a worthy defense on the field sooner rather than later thereby allowing AR a few more shots at more hardware. From a talent standpoint, I believe AR stands in a class all his own.

Although I mostly agree, AR needs to show that he can deliver a truly great game in crucial playoff situations. He has to some degree, but poor playoff performances in 2011 (the debacle against the Giants), and the 2nd half against Seattle in 2015 (he was injured, however) did not help his case. On the other hand, his performances last year in the 2nd half of the season and in the first 2 playoff games was stellar, as was his performance against Dallas in the playoffs 2 years ago.

Brady may have had better defenses, but still when a player is in the situation he has to deliver. Brady has done that in enough cases.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree with that assessment, although maybe he thought Capers should have adjusted better. Someone, might have even been you, noted that Capers doesn't like to give his corners help.

While it's possible that Capers could have done a better job of adjusting to losing Shields in week 1 there's no doubt the team lacked talent in the secondary last season.

...which has exactly what to do with Rodgers being the greatest?

You replied to a post about injuries not being a valid excuse for the Packers coming up short and now that you run out of arguments refer to the thread being about a different topic. Classy.

That doesn't mean I agree with what he said, but he's not the first person to say that Rodgers holds the ball too long. People have said that for years, especially when the sack totals pile up.

While it's true that Rodgers holding on to the ball too long occasionally leads to him being sacked you have to realize that a lot of these plays result in huge gains for the Packers as well.

Over the course of his starter career, AR has averaged 7.8 INT's per season and those numbers are skewed a little against him as I didn't eliminate the 7 games he missed in 09.

Actually if you didn't eliminate the seven games Rodgers missed in 2013 the mumbers are a little skewed in his favor. I absolutely agree with your overall premise that he is taking care of the football better than any other quarterback in the league though.

I haven't double checked on this, but Shannon Sharpe said that since winning the Super Bowl, his TD to INT ratio is over 5 to 1. That's a 6 year sample size.

Rodgers has thrown 210 touchdowns and only 40 interceptions for a TD/INT ratio of 5.25 since the start of the 2011 season.

We all know whose fault it is this team hasn't gotten further. It's the damm president & GM. Why the prez? Because he allows his gm to consistently ignore the D & have this weird obsession on " Draft and develop". That mantra is all well and good if your the Cleveland Browns. Not if your the Green Bay frickin Packers. Not if you have an all time HOF QB.

So unfortunately Rodgers has little chance of being the goat ( When you factor in titles), as long as this management team is around.

February 6th 2011 was a long time ago.

I understand it's a common theme among Thompson supporters around this forum when they're out of reasonable arguments to ridicule other posters who dare to criticize the general manager but in this case I would love to hear your explanation for who else is mainly to blame for the Packers not being able to field a top 10 defense in any of the past six seasons???

Let's also not forget NE is a Darrell Bevil brain fart, & Atlanta Falcons using common sense away from being 0-4 in the big game since 2005.

The Packers were a botched onside kick away from possibly meeting & beating NE that year.

It doesn't matter at all as it didn't happen that way though.

 

[rmontro]

We all know whose fault it is this team hasn't gotten further. It's the damm president & GM. Why the prez? Because he allows his gm to consistently ignore the D

I wouldn't say the GM has ignored the D, the defense has been the main focus of the draft for years and years now. Hasn't done much good though. Ted's made some mistakes though, like letting too much of our veteran secondary go via free agency. I know he was counting on Shields to stay healthy, and Randall and Rollins to come on, but he gambled and lost there.

The Packers were a botched onside kick away from possibly meeting & beating NE that year. Remember they had beaten them two months prior. Others would look at Brady ( And AR) much differently.

That game where we beat New England shows what a great defensive mind Belichick is. He had a completely logical plan to take away our strongest receivers. It just so happens Adams stepped up and had a huge day, and we won anyway. Would that have happened again if we had met in the Super Bowl, at a neutral site? Maybe, maybe not. But that was a solid plan.

Brady may have had better defenses, but still when a player is in the situation he has to deliver. Brady has done that in enough cases.

Brady has delivered. But he hasn't been expected to have to put up 45 points to win like Rodgers has, either.

One more word about Cowherd: As far as I know, he's a Giant fan. He has a national sports program, he doesn't run a Green Packers show. So he isn't required to always say nice things about Aaron Rodgers, and I wouldn't expect him to. LeBron James is the best player in the NBA, but he gets plenty of heat on these shows too. It's just the nature of the business. I usually find Cowherd's comments on Rodgers to be fairly neutral. Bayless, on the other hand, appears to have some sort of personal vendetta against him. All he cares about is his precious Cowboys and Tom Brady.

 

[Mondio]

he did "gamble" and lose, but let's not forget the previous year he let Tramon and House go and nobody even noticed when the season started, that's how well Randall and Rollins filled in. That season it was our defense that kept us in games a lot of times while our offense sputtered and looked out of place much of the season. They weren't completely shut down, but they were pretty much what they were the season before and Shields missed quite a bit of that season too. Injured a couple games and missed that last month of the season at least before coming back in the playoffs.

It's not like he just said, "oh well, let's see what the **** happens with this set up". But you're right. The defense needs to start paying dividends, because it's been invested in. I expect at least one if not both Randall and Rollins to bounce back to respectable or better levels of play. I think Clark is going to play a big role with Daniels too. I'm most worried about Matthews and Perry. But when you invest in a "star" and they start to fall, you kind of have to roll with it for a bit, specifically talking about Matthews. If we can get to middle of the road again in pass defense, I think it's good enough for this team. Will be interesting to see how things shake out.

 

[Half Empty]

Let's also not forget NE is a Darrell Bevil brain fart, & Atlanta Falcons using common sense away from being 0-4 in the big game since 2005.

The Packers were a botched onside kick away from possibly meeting & beating NE that year. Remember they had beaten them two months prior. Others would look at Brady ( And AR) much differently.

As always, have to also consider that the Pats were two once-in-a-lifetime catches away from being 4-0 in those same Super Bowls.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

he did "gamble" and lose, but let's not forget the previous year he let Tramon and House go and nobody even noticed when the season started, that's how well Randall and Rollins filled in. That season it was our defense that kept us in games a lot of times while our offense sputtered and looked out of place much of the season. They weren't completely shut down, but they were pretty much what they were the season before and Shields missed quite a bit of that season too. Injured a couple games and missed that last month of the season at least before coming back in the playoffs.

It was a gamble Thompson took last season though as the defense struggled in 2015 during the four games Shields missed as well. Considering the four reported concussions Sam had suffered entering the 2016 season not having a viable backup plan backfired.

I'm most worried about Matthews and Perry.

Matthews and Perry form a formidable starting tandem at edge rusher but I'm extremely worried about a lack of quality depth at the position.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

FWIW Rodgers has been selected as the first overall player in PFF's foundation draft, in which analysts select players to start a franchise around.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...aft-who-would-you-choose-to-start-a-franchise