The offense must run through Jones and Dillon

[Heyjoe4]

Agree. The third back next year should not be Taylor. I don't think he should even be the 4th back next year.

Yeah Taylor showed little to nothing with the opportunities he got.

Looking ahead, I think Gluten should use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a back who could ultimately replace Jones. Jones is probably the best player on the field when he is healthy. Problem is, his age started to show this year with the injuries. But damn, the guy is a total spark plug for that offense.

I'd try to keep Dillon in the $3 mil/year range. There won't be a lot of interest in him in FA. He serves a role to spell Jones, but he's never been a big-yardage guy. Dillon is closer to being a full back than half back.

RB will have to be addressed in the draft. GB has a pretty good history of selecting and coaching backs, although I think Jones was a TT pick and Dillon was a Gluten pick.

 

[games]

I'm a Dillon stan. But, this season showed me he probably doesn't fit the direction the Packers are taking.

Jones was highly effective for a half season of work. IMO, he would not have performed as well in the second half of the season had he played the first half.

I think we're going to see an add at RB to balance the load with Jones. Maybe a scatback like Bucky Irving from Oregon. I can't see Barkley or Henry behind this line, which is built for pass protection, not run blocking.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If GB is going to have a 230+ lb running back they need to be a hammer. Dillon was big & occassionally pushed the pile but couldn't get that tough yard on short yardage.

Draft a young, hard runner with a top 100 pick, and find a 240+ lb'er UDFA as #3. Use Jones for 12-15 touches/game, mix in the rookie, & use #3 for short yardage & ST plays.

I would love to see the Packers have a RB depth chart of 4 backs, 2 hammers, Jones and a speed guy. While you probably only suit 3 of them up for each game, it gives you options based on injuries and the defense that you are playing that week.

Something needs to change for the Packer offense when it comes to picking up a yard for a first down. I love Jones, but he isn't a sure thing on those 3rd or 4th and one, and as you point out, neither is Dillon. Unless they can perfect the Love Shove, find a back that you are suiting up each week that can power and muscle his way for that first down.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If GB is going to have a 230+ lb running back they need to be a hammer. Dillon was big & occassionally pushed the pile but couldn't get that tough yard on short yardage.

Draft a young, hard runner with a top 100 pick, and find a 240+ lb'er UDFA as #3. Use Jones for 12-15 touches/game, mix in the rookie, & use #3 for short yardage & ST plays.

Considering the lower body strength of Dillon, it's interesting that he couldn't be counted on to pick up that one, tough yard.

With Jones racking up mileage and injuries, and Dillon likely gone, Gluten is gonna need to be creative with rounding out the RB group. Some combination of draft, FA, and UDFA should do it. The hard part is finding the guys.

And I'm not crazy about Wilson.

 

[Pkrjones]

And I'm not crazy about Wilson.

Emmanuel Wilson is 5'-10", 230 lbs. and dominated at Fort Valley. He's still maturing as a runner against much better competition. He'll battle for a roster spot in '24 but would probably need to fill my "hammer" position & be our short yardage back.

Rookie, top 100 pick, should be similar to Jones around 210 lb. and quick/fast to hit a smaller hole & break away.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rookie, top 100 pick, should be similar to Jones around 210 lb. and quick/fast to hit a smaller hole & break away.

Agree. Sadly, it might be time to start looking for Aaron's eventual replacement or at least a guy that can fill in if Jones gets injured or needs a breather.

 

[milani]

Yeah Taylor showed little to nothing with the opportunities he got.

Looking ahead, I think Gluten should use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a back who could ultimately replace Jones. Jones is probably the best player on the field when he is healthy. Problem is, his age started to show this year with the injuries. But damn, the guy is a total spark plug for that offense.

I'd try to keep Dillon in the $3 mil/year range. There won't be a lot of interest in him in FA. He serves a role to spell Jones, but he's never been a big-yardage guy. Dillon is closer to being a full back than half back.

RB will have to be addressed in the draft. GB has a pretty good history of selecting and coaching backs, although I think Jones was a TT pick and Dillon was a Gluten pick.

That is why Jones can last if he is not overused.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Emmanuel Wilson is 5'-10", 230 lbs. and dominated at Fort Valley. He's still maturing as a runner against much better competition. He'll battle for a roster spot in '24 but would probably need to fill my "hammer" position & be our short yardage back.

Rookie, top 100 pick, should be similar to Jones around 210 lb. and quick/fast to hit a smaller hole & break away.

Hmmm that's an interesting take on Wilson. He is a big back with more moves than Dillon. If Dillon walks then maybe Wilson takes his snaps and we see him used differently. He has flashed, just not nearly enough. Maybe defining his role leads to better production. Thanks Pk, good observation.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That is why Jones can last if he is not overused.

Agreed. I'd rather rest him to prevent injury than wait until he gets injured. That will require some discipline by MLF to keep his snaps around 15, maybe 20. They then have to get another true half back in the draft or, last resort, FA. I also lime the idea from Pk to think about Wilson as a runner closer to Dillon than Jones. (Well that's not exactly what Pk said, but the idea was in there.)

For me the jury is still out on Wilson. But if Dillon leaves and Wilson adds 10 lbs to replace him, it could be good.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agree. Sadly, it might be time to start looking for Aaron's eventual replacement or at least a guy that can fill in if Jones gets injured or needs a breather.

Correct. They have 5 picks in rounds 1-3. They should be able to find a solid RB in rounds 2 or 3 and still fill needs at LT, S, Edge, and probably CB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I would love to see the Packers have a RB depth chart of 4 backs, 2 hammers, Jones and a speed guy. While you probably only suit 3 of them up for each game, it gives you options based on injuries and the defense that you are playing that week.

Something needs to change for the Packer offense when it comes to picking up a yard for a first down. I love Jones, but he isn't a sure thing on those 3rd or 4th and one, and as you point out, neither is Dillon. Unless they can perfect the Love Shove, find a back that you are suiting up each week that can power and muscle his way for that first down.

The Brotherly Shove worlks so well in Philly because of 1) play design and 2) Hurts has incredible leg strength and knows how to get under the D line. Love is not big enough for that shove play to be a sure thing.

MLF should be able to draw up 2 or 3 plays to get that yard on 3rd or 4th down.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Brotherly Shove worlks so well in Philly because of 1) play design and 2) Hurts has incredible leg strength and knows how to get under the D line. Love is not big enough for that shoe play to be a sure thing.

MLF should be able to draw up 2 or 3 plays to get that yard on 3rd or 4th down.

I also have to wonder if a few other things are happening with the Love Shove in Green Bay. First, that took a lot of practice to run and something I am sure the Eagles worked on it quite a bit in practices before they perfected it. Second, given its newness, defenses have been trying to figure out just how to defense it. While I wouldn't give up on it completely if I was MLF, I would figure out some other ways to pick up those short yardage situations.

Let's face it, the 3rd/4th and 1 has always been a tough yard to gain for the Packers and for that matter a lot of teams in the NFL. Why? Defenses are about 90% sure it will be a running play and have 11 guys ready for it. I've always thought the key was to mixing up what you run, keep the defense guessing. Naked bootlegs, Fake handoff, flip the ball to tackle eligible, Fridge up the middle, brotherly shove, etc. But running Jones or Dillon straight up the gut, when they are starting 4-5 yards back from the line to gain for the first down, that's asking a lot of your runner and OL.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Emmanuel Wilson is 5'-10", 230 lbs. and dominated at Fort Valley. He's still maturing as a runner against much better competition.

You hammered it right there in bold. I looked at Fort Valley State's schedule for 2024. Now it doesn't include playing against the likes of The Brady Bunch or Jon and Kate Plus 8, but it wouldn't surprise me if they scrimmage against the Golden Girls from time to time.

 

[gopkrs]

You hammered it right there in bold. I looked at Fort Valley State's schedule for 2024. Now it doesn't include playing against the likes of The Brady Bunch or Jon and Kate Plus 8, but it wouldn't surprise me if they scrimmage against the Golden Girls from time to time.

More important is what he does on the field now. And he has looked pretty good to me. Deserves a shot. imho

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

More important is what he does on the field now. And he has looked pretty good to me. Deserves a shot. imho

I think he will get a shot to make the team again. However, with the limited amount of game data on him, it is most definitely too early to know if he will have a career in the NFL.

Seems every season, the Packers get 1 or 2 new RB's that start on the PS, play in a few games and then we don't hear much from them again. It really would be nice to have one of them overachieve and become a solid starting RB.

 

[mradtke66]

Let's face it, the 3rd/4th and 1 has always been a tough yard to gain for the Packers and for that matter a lot of teams in the NFL. Why? Defenses are about 90% sure it will be a running play and have 11 guys ready for it. I've always thought the key was to mixing up what you run, keep the defense guessing.

I even liked the way Brady ran it. A shift. Motion. Fake audibles. Hand signals to the receivers. Do every little thing you can do to plant the smallest sliver of doubt that maybe, just maybe, it isn't going to be a sneak. Then sneak it anyway.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I even liked the way Brady ran it. A shift. Motion. Fake audibles. Hand signals to the receivers. Do every little thing you can do to plant the smallest sliver of doubt that maybe, just maybe, it isn't going to be a sneak. Then sneak it anyway.

Agree, when you quickly line up, as the Packers did against the 49'ers and are in the formation the Packers were in, its too obvious what you are doing. It is the toughest 1 yard to gain in football and the Packers are going to need to figure out a way to be better at it.

 

[milani]

I even liked the way Brady ran it. A shift. Motion. Fake audibles. Hand signals to the receivers. Do every little thing you can do to plant the smallest sliver of doubt that maybe, just maybe, it isn't going to be a sneak. Then sneak it anyway.

Ironic that with the Packers dominant running attack during the 60s Starr threw some of his biggest TDs from his side of the field on 3rd and 4th and 1 with play action.

 

[mradtke66]

Ironic that with the Packers dominant running attack during the 60s Starr threw some of his biggest TDs from his side of the field on 3rd and 4th and 1 with play action.

It comes back the general issue--NFL defenses can stop any play, it's just a question of what they are willing to not defend in order to do so.

I'm honestly surprised the Eagles didn't develop a fake-sneak-jet-sweep to scare people. Just has to work once and you'll be in everyone's head until the end of time.

 

[DigRun]

Agree, when you quickly line up, as the Packers did against the 49'ers and are in the formation the Packers were in, its too obvious what you are doing. It is the toughest 1 yard to gain in football and the Packers are going to need to figure out a way to be better at it.

I seem to recall that WATSON and A Jones were lined up behind J Love as well for the "shove"! A guy with a current hamstring issues and a smaller back who was also out with injuries aren't who I would want running up behind me to help gain a few more inches on a critical down. MLF may have been trying to create the illusion of a different play call on 4th with them lined up that way, but had they worked on that play more in the past why not just get a wide body back there for the shove...or like the Bears did in '85 with #72 the Fridge. I'll never forget how they rubbed it in our faces with him on MNF and then a couple weeks later again throwing to him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I seem to recall that WATSON and A Jones were lined up behind J Love as well for the "shove"! A guy with a current hamstring issues and a smaller back who was also out with injuries aren't who I would want running up behind me to help gain a few more inches on a critical down. MLF may have been trying to create the illusion of a different play call on 4th with them lined up that way, but had they worked on that play more in the past why not just get a wide body back there for the shove...or like the Bears did in '85 with #72 the Fridge. I'll never forget how they rubbed it in our faces with him on MNF and then a couple weeks later again throwing to him.

Agreed. I was totally unimpressed with what they did in that situation. Not to mention that the Umpire came from behind the play and mismarked the ball a half yard shorter than where the linesman had marked it after Jones's 3rd down carry. Had they not rushed up to the LOS, I think someone notices the incorrect spot. I truly think rushing that play may have been a big factor in losing the game.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I also have to wonder if a few other things are happening with the Love Shove in Green Bay. First, that took a lot of practice to run and something I am sure the Eagles worked on it quite a bit in practices before they perfected it. Second, given its newness, defenses have been trying to figure out just how to defense it. While I wouldn't give up on it completely if I was MLF, I would figure out some other ways to pick up those short yardage situations.

Let's face it, the 3rd/4th and 1 has always been a tough yard to gain for the Packers and for that matter a lot of teams in the NFL. Why? Defenses are about 90% sure it will be a running play and have 11 guys ready for it. I've always thought the key was to mixing up what you run, keep the defense guessing. Naked bootlegs, Fake handoff, flip the ball to tackle eligible, Fridge up the middle, brotherly shove, etc. But running Jones or Dillon straight up the gut, when they are starting 4-5 yards back from the line to gain for the first down, that's asking a lot of your runner and OL.

All good points. And yeah, in addition to Hurts being a colossus, the Eagles practice and practice that sneak. I've seen them run it from two yards out and it still works. So it's not a matter of lining up and pushing, because there's a mountain on the other side. It is a lot of very strong guys. It's also a lot of technique and the ability to create the slightest crease.

I have always wondered why more teams don't run a naked bootleg left or right. That one yard, or one foot, is damn tough to get when the opponent sells out for it. And I've never liked the straight handoff when, to your point, the ball is handed off 5 yards behind the sticks.

But most teams do go straight ahead. It's just a lot harder than it looks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

All good points. And yeah, in addition to Hurts being a colossus, the Eagles practice and practice that sneak. I've seen them run it from two yards out and it still works. So it's not a matter of lining up and pushing, because there's a mountain on the other side. It is a lot of very strong guys. It's also a lot of technique and the ability to create the slightest crease.

I have always wondered why more teams don't run a naked bootleg left or right. That one yard, or one foot, is damn tough to get when the opponent sells out for it. And I've never liked the straight handoff when, to your point, the ball is handed off 5 yards behind the sticks.

But most teams do go straight ahead. It's just a lot harder than it looks.

I also think a lot of the success that the Eagles have with the Brotherly Shove can be contributed to their OL. I've watched those guys and they get down super low, use their legs and just bulldoze the DL. I also think that with enough film study, DC's are going to come up with better methods to stop it.

As both you and I have alluded to, the Eagles have made the play look super simple and effective, but other teams, like GB have tried and failed. It will be interesting to see if the NFL changes and rules in regards to running it and if they don't, how many teams work ******* it, on both sides of the ball for 2024.

 

[gopkrs]

I hope they get rid of all this shove/rugby crap. Including when the runner has the ball and he has already been stopped. They should blow it dead everytime someone pushes from behind imho. It used to be illegal. Every single idiot announcer says about the runner that he is staying on his feet and pushing forward. What a bunch of bull. He is being pushed forward and held up on his feet from both sides.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I hope they get rid of all this shove/rugby crap. Including when the runner has the ball and he has already been stopped. They should blow it dead everytime someone pushes from behind imho. It used to be illegal. Every single idiot announcer says about the runner that he is staying on his feet and pushing forward. What a bunch of bull. He is being pushed forward and held up on his feet from both sides.

I guess I don't have an issue with it. How many times have you seen defensive players pile in to help make a tackle? Had they not piled in, would the ball carrier have been stopped? The main objective of football is to advance the ball forward, if it takes a ball carrier following or being followed by a blocker, let em' play.