The offense must run through Jones and Dillon

[sschind]

I guess I don't have an issue with it. How many times have you seen defensive players pile in to help make a tackle? Had they not piled in, would the ball carrier have been stopped? The main objective of football is to advance the ball forward, if it takes a ball carrier following or being followed by a blocker, let em' play.

more specifically the object of football is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line. (Rip Mr. Carlin)



I agree on the push. Its like saying if you don't like the other team running up the score then stop them. If its OK for a guy to lead a runner through the line to knock defenders out of the way why not let someone shove them through the line.

Kinda the opposite but I recall Larry Csonka, (I think it was Csonka) saying all he did was grab Larry Little's belt and let him pull him through the crowd.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

more specifically the object of football is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line. (Rip Mr. Carlin)

I miss George, absolutely loved his comedy. I'm glad I got to see both him and Robin Williams in person.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[sschind]

I miss George, absolutely loved his comedy. I'm glad I got to see both him and Robin Williams in person.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Thats the one I was going to post but I was looking for the part with the object of football specifically

 

[gopkrs]

more specifically the object of football is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line. (Rip Mr. Carlin)



I agree on the push. Its like saying if you don't like the other team running up the score then stop them. If its OK for a guy to lead a runner through the line to knock defenders out of the way why not let someone shove them through the line.

Kinda the opposite but I recall Larry Csonka, (I think it was Csonka) saying all he did was grab Larry Little's belt and let him pull him through the crowd.

And you believe that about Csonka?

 

[milani]

I seem to recall that WATSON and A Jones were lined up behind J Love as well for the "shove"! A guy with a current hamstring issues and a smaller back who was also out with injuries aren't who I would want running up behind me to help gain a few more inches on a critical down. MLF may have been trying to create the illusion of a different play call on 4th with them lined up that way, but had they worked on that play more in the past why not just get a wide body back there for the shove...or like the Bears did in '85 with #72 the Fridge. I'll never forget how they rubbed it in our faces with him on MNF and then a couple weeks later again throwing to him.

If you recall on the 1st Bear possession of the season they were 4th and less than one and did the exact same thing as we did. And we actually stopped Fields. Maybe the only stop of the season.

 

[milani]

I miss George, absolutely loved his comedy. I'm glad I got to see both him and Robin Williams in person.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

I met George's nephew a few years ago. He was an OTR driver. He could not believe I could recite word for word Carlin's songs and mimics from his very first live album called " Take Offs and Put Ons " from 1965.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I guess I don't have an issue with it. How many times have you seen defensive players pile in to help make a tackle? Had they not piled in, would the ball carrier have been stopped? The main objective of football is to advance the ball forward, if it takes a ball carrier following or being followed by a blocker, let em' play.

As far as the "shove" and pushing a runner forward, I agree. As far as the shove, you rightly point out that the Eagles linemen get way low and still find the leverage to push the D backwards. No easy feat. If the Packers or any other team wanna run it successfully, they need the horses and they have to practice it, just like the Eagles.

As far as pushing a pile forward, that's fine with me. And yeah, it's done on both sides of the ball. And if there's a rule that it isn't legal, how do the refs determine exactly when/where forward motion is stopped? That becomes a ball-placement nightmare. Until a guy is stood up for some period of time, let the play finish.

 

[milani]

As far as the "shove" and pushing a runner forward, I agree. As far as the shove, you rightly point out that the Eagles linemen get way low and still find the leverage to push the D backwards. No easy feat. If the Packers or any other team wanna run it successfully, they need the horses and they have to practice it, just like the Eagles.

As far as pushing a pile forward, that's fine with me. And yeah, it's done on both sides of the ball. And if there's a rule that it isn't legal, how do the refs determine exactly when/where forward motion is stopped? That becomes a ball-placement nightmare. Until a guy is stood up for some period of time, let the play finish.

There once was a penalty for pushing or driving a runner forward. Blocking was the means to advance the ball carrier. They should return to that rule. I for one do not watch rugby. But if I did it would not be on a football field. Anyone recall why Chuck Mercein put his hands up as Bart Starr crossed the goal line in the Ice Bowl? It was not a signal for a touchdown. It was to show the refs his hands were free from trying to push Starr forward which would have been illegal. Starr scored behind the blocks of Jerry Kramer and Ken Bowman. Now that is how football was meant to be played.

 

[Poppa San]

Now that is how football was meant to be played.

At what point? At one time the forward pass was illegal. At one time the ref stood in the huddle to make sure the coaches were not sending in the plays. The QB had to call them. At one time there was not a tee for kickoffs. Just because they played that way when you were a youngster does not mean that is how it was meant to be played. Really would slow down basketball if there was a jump ball after every made basket like it was in the early years of the sport.

 

[Half Empty]

Ironic that with the Packers dominant running attack during the 60s Starr threw some of his biggest TDs from his side of the field on 3rd and 4th and 1 with play action.

Don't quite understand the ironic part. It's BECAUSE they had that running game that the passes were such a surprise to the D, and therefore often successful.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Thats the one I was going to post but I was looking for the part with the object of football specifically

Yeah, that part is right at the end of the video I posted.

This bit on Sports and how to make some Sports more "exciting and interesting" is classic.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[gopkrs]

As far as the "shove" and pushing a runner forward, I agree. As far as the shove, you rightly point out that the Eagles linemen get way low and still find the leverage to push the D backwards. No easy feat. If the Packers or any other team wanna run it successfully, they need the horses and they have to practice it, just like the Eagles.

As far as pushing a pile forward, that's fine with me. And yeah, it's done on both sides of the ball. And if there's a rule that it isn't legal, how do the refs determine exactly when/where forward motion is stopped? That becomes a ball-placement nightmare. Until a guy is stood up for some period of time, let the play finish.

Don't know why it's a ball placement problem. You put the ball where it is when the defense starts pushing from behind. At that point the runner is standing straight up. And most of the time his forward progress was already stopped. The defenders just got it going again. The only problem might be when a defender is pushing a tackler off the runner. And I didn't say it was illegal. I said it used to be illegal. At least on the QB sneak. And I never used to see it on the field with a RB. It's like a scrum in rugby and has no place on the gridiron imho. But the rules people will do whatever gets the crowds screaming. Or puts more points on the scoreboard.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

how do the refs determine exactly when/where forward motion is stopped?

I have been saying this for years, a GPS locator inside the ball would 100% improve the correct spotting of the ball after each and every play. Even in the case of forward progress, that would be an easy feat for the GPS and computer to instantly determine and relay to an official on the field. Did the ball cross the goal line? GPS. Where did the ball go out of bounds on the punt? GPS.

 

[Pkrjones]

I have been saying this for years, a GPS locator inside the ball would 100% improve the correct spotting of the ball after each and every play. Even in the case of forward progress, that would be an easy feat for the GPS and computer to instantly determine and relay to an official on the field. Did the ball cross the goal line? GPS. Where did the ball go out of bounds on the punt? GPS.

Yes, that is very possible for the NFL to do...but they won't. Fans & viewers will ALWAYS continue watching regardless of officiating accuracy. The NFL doesn't want to expend the money if there is NO PAYBACK. Also, controversy actually increases interest & potentially viewers so why should they reduce or eliminate it?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes, that is very possible for the NFL to do...but they won't. Fans & viewers will ALWAYS continue watching regardless of officiating accuracy. The NFL doesn't want to expend the money if there is NO PAYBACK. Also, controversy actually increases interest & potentially viewers so why should they reduce or eliminate it?

I found an interesting article on the subject, which is 6 years old and talks about how the NFL will probably "soon" catch up with technology. One thing sited in the article was that testing new technology becomes trickier with no official development league. Unlike Baseball, Hockey and Basketball, there are no lower leagues with ties to the NFL. I think that's just a fancy excuse of saying "We own the market and will do only what we want to do." Kind of inline of what you are saying.

The article also stated the reasons below, again, this article is 6 years old:

"According to the experts B/R spoke with, the reasons it's not a priority are:

1. teams (and advertisers) appreciate having the break in the game to measure the ball's distance from a first down;

2. the technology required is not yet reliable or precise enough for officiating purposes; and

3. the number of debatable calls is not statistically significant enough to force the league to act.

In other words, it's not worth the trouble or the cost."

I just think it is laziness on the part of the NFL. RFID chips designed to track position, speed and distance are already being used in players equipment and the ball. Currently, only for "fun stats" like miles per hour of a pass, player, etc.

I have looked at that 3rd down run of Aaron Jones against the 9'ers at least a dozen times and continue to wonder if the Umpire had spotted the ball correctly, how the outcome of the game might have differed.

Article on the subject

 

[milani]

Don't quite understand the ironic part. It's BECAUSE they had that running game that the passes were such a surprise to the D, and therefore often successful.

It was ironic because Lombardi prided his Packers with the running game. That was their trademark. And his. He even said when he got there that they would take a step back by emphasizing the run. Now teams DID make their name more with the QB and the pass back then. For Unitas, Tittle, and Bobby Layne throwing the football in those situations was not so surprising. But for Green Bay it was almost a rebuke of who they were and what they did. The most powerful running game in the NFL and you are going to risk a pass with one yard to go? That was always brought up in post games when it did happen.

 

[Poppa San]

The most powerful running game in the NFL and you are going to risk a pass with one yard to go?

When you pass the ball three things can happen, and two of them are bad for the offense. (We'll leave officiating out of the discussion.)

 

[milani]

At what point? At one time the forward pass was illegal. At one time the ref stood in the huddle to make sure the coaches were not sending in the plays. The QB had to call them. At one time there was not a tee for kickoffs. Just because they played that way when you were a youngster does not mean that is how it was meant to be played. Really would slow down basketball if there was a jump ball after every made basket like it was in the early years of the sport.

Good analogy. But blocking and tackling have been fundamental to the game since its inception. They do not slow the game down. There is no clandestine deception. And if there is a violation there is something called a yellow flag. There is a reason scrums did not become a standard for the game of football. It was meant to distinguish itself from a sport such as rugby. And it promoted the team concept with the individual skills of blocking and tackling. There is no blocking and tackling in a scrum. It basically is equivocal to mob rule vs. the law and order of a civilized society. Or to put it bluntly, the difference between Neanderthals and **** Sapiens.

 

[milani]

When you pass the ball three things can happen, and two of them are bad for the offense. (We'll leave officiating out of the discussion.)

Woody Hayes. And he was even truer to the running game than Lombardi.

 

[sschind]

At what point? At one time the forward pass was illegal. At one time the ref stood in the huddle to make sure the coaches were not sending in the plays. The QB had to call them. At one time there was not a tee for kickoffs. Just because they played that way when you were a youngster does not mean that is how it was meant to be played. Really would slow down basketball if there was a jump ball after every made basket like it was in the early years of the sport.

exactly. I even say this about the "played outdoors like it was meant to be played" mantra. You don't think the pioneers of the NFL would have considered playing indoors if they could have built big enough stadiums. Many of the reasons the early games were played the way they were is not because that's the way they were meant to be played its because the guys who played it that way didn't think of playing it that way.

 

[Poppa San]

exactly. I even say this about the "played outdoors like it was meant to be played" mantra. You don't think the pioneers of the NFL would have considered playing indoors if they could have built big enough stadiums. Many of the reasons the early games were played the way they were is not because that's the way they were meant to be played its because the guys who played it that way didn't think of playing it that way.

If I read it right some time ago, the first indoor football game was during the 1930s. When many of the pioneers were still trying to fill the stands.

There is no clandestine deception.

Like the play action fake? Pump fake?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

When you pass the ball three things can happen, and two of them are bad for the offense. (We'll leave officiating out of the discussion.)

I guess you could say the same thing about running the ball. Gain yards, lose yards or fumble.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

When many of the pioneers were still trying to fill the stands.

I always love to read articles like this and I know some rank U.S. Bank Stadium ahead of Lambeau. Yes, its a nice stadium, but not nearly the history or quaintness of Lambeau. Not to mention that their Championship Trophy Case is still empty!

NFL Stadiums Ranked From Best to Worst (Updated 2023)

With many incredible NFL stadiums for fans to watch their favorite teams, these are the 30 NFL stadiums ranked from best to worst for 2023.

www.profootballnetwork.com

 

[milani]

If I read it right some time ago, the first indoor football game was during the 1930s. When many of the pioneers were still trying to fill the stands.


Like the play action fake? Pump fake?

A fake is merely mimicking a process in disguise. It is designed with options that can be taken by both sides. Deception involves unwarranted and unlicensed actions that negate the integrity of the game. Like secretly filming an opponent at practice, using under inflated footballs, or using a foreign substance. Why do you think Baseball banned the spitball or grease on the orb? ******* Perry found out. Or the corked bat? Sammy Sosa found out. That is deception. In other words the success is not determined by the individual's talents but by outside elements which makes the purpose of playing the sport meaningless. The scrum really turns football into another sport if that is what is desired. As John Madden said, " If you eliminate the extra point you don't have Football. "

 

[Poppa San]

I always love to read articles like this and I know some rank U.S. Bank Stadium ahead of Lambeau. Yes, its a nice stadium, but not nearly the history or quaintness of Lambeau. Not to mention that their Championship Trophy Case is still empty!

NFL Stadiums Ranked From Best to Worst (Updated 2023)

With many incredible NFL stadiums for fans to watch their favorite teams, these are the 30 NFL stadiums ranked from best to worst for 2023.

www.profootballnetwork.com

I've always wondered if Lambeau was 20 years old and not 60+, would it rank so high on these lists.