The offense must run through Jones and Dillon

[Voyageur]

Love will have to throw and complete the occasional deep ball to keep defenses honest early in the season though. Otherwise he will have a tough time completing the short ones as well.



My point was that you need to include the numbers from all running backs. The Packers ranked fourth in the league in yards from scrimmage from the RBs.



It's true that having a contingency plan is important. That doesn't change my opinion that they simply can't let Gary walk away next offseason.

Of course he'll throw one occasionally. But that won't be the bread and butter for this team. It's going to be a heavy dose of short passes, and outlet passes, because there's obviously going to be a lack of chemistry that develops with familiarity between QB and receivers.

I coached way too long to start believing that there's some magic potion, or fairy dust, that automatically makes things the best they can be. Even Rodgers had that first year of feeling out the guys around him, and not really testing himself more than necessary.

For those who don't agree, that's fine. Just don't expect your QB to lead the league in fewest INTs, if you start throwing the ball around more than what's really comfortable.

 

[Mondio]

I don't expect him to be fewest INT's in the league regardless. This offense is not in a good place at the moment. They are going to have to flip the script pretty early, or suffer through a lot of disappointment.

Having Doubs and Watson in year 2 and hopefully both healthy and both on the field at the same time will help. Having Jenkins and BakhT back on holding down the left side will help. Going to need some guys on the right to step up and at least1 of the young TE's to be better than your average rookie but we should be looking better from a personnel point than last year if that stays true.

BUT, they still will have to prove they can take advantage of things down field or the check downs and short passes are going to end up a lot like they did the past 2 seasons. Blown up more times than not. Defense don't need to respect anything going away from the LOS, they've been playing us that way for a while. Teams with crappy defenses won't matter as much but if we can't prove we can protect and go down field, I foresee too many 3 yard passes and tackled when we needed 5 and a punt, tipped passes, jumping routes and a RB blown up by a freight train heading downhill resulting in more than a fumble or 2 if we can't.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Which is exactly why I say that Love won't be throwing those longer timing routes early in the season. He's going to opt down to safety valve throws, until after he's convinced himself that they'll be where they should be, when they should be. Even the long breakaway speed throw is a timed throw, where you expect the receiver to be a certain place, breaking containment.

It will be a learning curve for all of them, related to each other, in game conditions, not the same as practice, which is controlled.

Yes you are correct again V! For the long throws to work as I suggested, the receiver needs to be on the right route, headed for the right place, and ideally with a blown S coverage. That requires a lot of work between the QB and the WR just to recognize such an opportunity, much less execute.

And with Watson's speed pretty well known now, I expect he'll get safety coverage behind the CB on just about every route beyond 10 yards. So yeah, the long passes will be even more difficult to execute. A you note, better to check down and get a short completion, or QB run, than a wasted down or worse. And that's fine with me. I saw Rodgers overthrow way too many receivers last year.

 

[gopkrs]

I'm also hoping Love sees open receivers mid range when 1 or 2 others are going deep. More than ARod seemed to do last year. Maybe the new TEs will help out there ala Kelsey. And Mondio is correct to point out that you can't really do much of anything if the O line doesn't protect well.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm also hoping Love sees open receivers mid range when 1 or 2 others are going deep. More than ARod seemed to do last year. Maybe the new TEs will help out there ala Kelsey. And Mondio is correct to point out that you can't really do much of anything if the O line doesn't protect well.

Yeah the O line looks pretty good on paper. They of course have to stay healthy, and there's a decent amount of depth.

I'd love to see more short screens, crossing routes, and use of the slot receiver and TEs. Those are higher percentage plays than the bombs Rodgers was mostly throwing too far (or the receiver wasn't finishing his route). Who cares? Move the ball, control TOP, wear down a D and win. Avoid the 3 and outs we saw last season (well it seemed like there were a lot).

 

[Voyageur]

Yeah the O line looks pretty good on paper. They of course have to stay healthy, and there's a decent amount of depth.

I'd love to see more short screens, crossing routes, and use of the slot receiver and TEs. Those are higher percentage plays than the bombs Rodgers was mostly throwing too far (or the receiver wasn't finishing his route). Who cares? Move the ball, control TOP, wear down a D and win. Avoid the 3 and outs we saw last season (well it seemed like there were a lot).

Short passes that spread out defenses, and draws ILBs away from the box can help the run game. That said, there's a big difference between desperation outlet passes and a controlled short game.

 

[Mondio]

Short passes that spread out defenses, and draws ILBs away from the box can help the run game. That said, there's a big difference between desperation outlet passes and a controlled short game.

There is, and when teams can rush with 4 and get pressure consistently and can flood throwing lanes and keep everyone up tight it's nowhere as easy at it sounds and TO's become more of the norm especially with an inexperienced QB. When you get all 11 guys within 10 yards of the LOS and playing towards it and are not worried about downfield its very hard to run an offense. As we've seen

 

[Voyageur]

There is, and when teams can rush with 4 and get pressure consistently and can flood throwing lanes and keep everyone up tight it's nowhere as easy at it sounds and TO's become more of the norm especially with an inexperienced QB. When you get all 11 guys within 10 yards of the LOS and playing towards it and are not worried about downfield its very hard to run an offense. As we've seen

And when the pass rush is extreme, the CBs and Safeties can play center field, and run to the ball for INTs, if the QB is desperate.

 

[Mondio]

And when the pass rush is extreme, the CBs and Safeties can play center field, and run to the ball for INTs, if the QB is desperate.

yes they can, so until GB proves they can beat that over the top and protect to do it, it's not going to run very well. As we've seen.

 

[Schultz]

I honestly believe the running game, throws to the backs, short completions to move the chains was the game plan last year. Now everyone is entitled to their opinion if Rodgers audibled out due to his ego, hero ball or years of experience reading defenses. Those deeper routes turned out to be mostly unsuccessful. Here is my fear. GB has the same very good backfield. The receiving core is IMO worse. The year (minus time missed pre-season and in-season ) of experience for Watson and Doubs and the potential of the TEs does not off set the losses of Lazard and Tonyan. IMO. The O-Line is also the same. I know there is rightfully so hope that fully healthy left side and another year of experience for the others leads to an impactful improvement. The loss of Big Dog will hurt a little. So once again my fear is that defenses will play even tougher against the run and the short game. IMO a first year starter is not going to be quick to audible out (assuming he is even allowed to). Love could be as good or even better than some think and the cards will still be stacked against him. Big year for the MLF offense, one way or the other. IMO.

 

[OldSchool101]

It's true that having a contingency plan is important. That doesn't change my opinion that they simply can't let Gary walk away next offseason.

I doubt that would happen on our account. It all comes ultimately down to the player/agent, not the team.

 

[OldSchool101]

I honestly believe the running game, throws to the backs, short completions to move the chains was the game plan last year. Now everyone is entitled to their opinion if Rodgers audibled out due to his ego, hero ball or years of experience reading defenses. Those deeper routes turned out to be mostly unsuccessful. Here is my fear. GB has the same very good backfield. The receiving core is IMO worse. The year (minus time missed pre-season and in-season ) of experience for Watson and Doubs and the potential of the TEs does not off set the losses of Lazard and Tonyan. IMO. The O-Line is also the same. I know there is rightfully so hope that fully healthy left side and another year of experience for the others leads to an impactful improvement. The loss of Big Dog will hurt a little. So once again my fear is that defenses will play even tougher against the run and the short game. IMO a first year starter is not going to be quick to audible out (assuming he is even allowed to). Love could be as good or even better than some think and the cards will still be stacked against him. Big year for the MLF offense, one way or the other. IMO.

I guess I see it more from a team perspective. We can have a conversation about the experience of our Offense and not have to ignore everything else about this team. The Jordan Love Packers don’t need him to play HOF. They need him to be efficient and keep his Turnover ratio 2:1 or better. As long as we achieve similar results from our RB backfield to 2022 we’ll be fine, which I fully expect.

Will there be growing pains? Sure. Rodgers and Herbert’s 1st year there were if I recall? Why wouldn’t there be some for Love and a bunch of Rookies and 1st year guys?
Yet somehow we’ve missed the big picture —-we don’t need peak Rodgers. We sure didn’t get him in 2022 from what I saw!!
We need a top #10 Defense, top #16 ST units, top #20 area Offense to cause problems and pose a threat in our division. Anything happens if we make a postseason appearance. It’ll scare the hell out of everyone if this team makes playoffs because even us Packer fans have counted ourselves out. Those are all completely attainable goals though. Jones and Dillon won’t be our problem this year. You can put 10 in the box it won’t matter. It’ll backfire pretty quickly once Love gets his footing.


In the meantime any intelligent team would lean on their strengths. Saying they can’t because our opponent is too good or because they can put 11 in the box is playing scared. You don’t win football games speaking to your fear of your opponents
You plan for it and execute that formula. I would hope if you or I can surmise what our opponent might do Matt might have considered it before we did

 

[Heyjoe4]

I honestly believe the running game, throws to the backs, short completions to move the chains was the game plan last year. Now everyone is entitled to their opinion if Rodgers audibled out due to his ego, hero ball or years of experience reading defenses. Those deeper routes turned out to be mostly unsuccessful. Here is my fear. GB has the same very good backfield. The receiving core is IMO worse. The year (minus time missed pre-season and in-season ) of experience for Watson and Doubs and the potential of the TEs does not off set the losses of Lazard and Tonyan. IMO. The O-Line is also the same. I know there is rightfully so hope that fully healthy left side and another year of experience for the others leads to an impactful improvement. The loss of Big Dog will hurt a little. So once again my fear is that defenses will play even tougher against the run and the short game. IMO a first year starter is not going to be quick to audible out (assuming he is even allowed to). Love could be as good or even better than some think and the cards will still be stacked against him. Big year for the MLF offense, one way or the other. IMO.

These are all good points and things to watch for, especially early. And as for last year, Rodgers certainly changed plays, probably a lot of them to unsuccessful long routes, but the number? Who knows.

I don't agree that the receiving group, including TEs is worse than last year. Losing Lazard and Cobb certainly hurts, but with Watson and Doubs in year 2 and an improvement to the TE group (well, on paper), I expect the pass game to be more successful. I do wish they had kept Big Dog, but the movement is to youth and he just didn't fit.

We've been talking about Love a lot, and you rightly point out what opposing Ds might do. Valid comment. Another part of MLF's first real test as a HC.

 

[mradtke66]

These are all good points and things to watch for, especially early. And as for last year, Rodgers certainly changed plays, probably a lot of them to unsuccessful long routes, but the number? Who knows.

My thought here is "take what the defense gives you." The sneaky part is many assume that to mean "take the easy stuff."

I think most of what what given to us last year was the deep shots. Checking to those was often the right decision, but the whole thing didn't work out. Between Rodgers' thumb, Watson missing time, Lazard not actually being a number 1, and Sammy doing everything wrong, I'm not surprised.

 

[OldSchool101]

My thought here is "take what the defense gives you." The sneaky part is many assume that to mean "take the easy stuff."

I think most of what what given to us last year was the deep shots. Checking to those was often the right decision, but the whole thing didn't work out. Between Rodgers' thumb, Watson missing time, Lazard not actually being a number 1, and Sammy doing everything wrong, I'm not surprised.

True. I don’t recall a larger stretch of any season with #12 under Center that we looked so discombobulated. I would’ve never guessed that Sammy would be so disconnected, on paper Rodgers and Sammy was a match made in Heaven and what a cluster we were in live games

 

[Mondio]

My thought here is "take what the defense gives you." The sneaky part is many assume that to mean "take the easy stuff."

I think most of what what given to us last year was the deep shots. Checking to those was often the right decision, but the whole thing didn't work out. Between Rodgers' thumb, Watson missing time, Lazard not actually being a number 1, and Sammy doing everything wrong, I'm not surprised.

I don't mean to insult you, but sometimes it seems like we share a brain.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't mean to insult you, but sometimes it seems like we share a brain.

Hilarious. Does this mean you two would share brain farts?

 

[mradtke66]

on paper Rodgers and Sammy was a match made in Heaven and what a cluster we were in live games

Agreed. And was a special kind of terrible. I know I saw a lot of stopped routes, rounded off routes, just general sloppiness that you shouldn't see from an established vet.

I think Kurt Warner also laid into him during his video breakdowns, but I cannot recall with certainty.

 

[mradtke66]

I don't mean to insult you, but sometimes it seems like we share a brain.

Heh, no offense taken.

 

[OldSchool101]

Agreed. And was a special kind of terrible. I know I saw a lot of stopped routes, rounded off routes, just general sloppiness that you shouldn't see from an established vet.

I think Kurt Warner also laid into him during his video breakdowns, but I cannot recall with certainty.

Yes. It was Kurt. It’s hard to argue with a player of his magnitude, he probably has a pretty good feel due to his experience in film breakdown on QB-WR. So I respect his opinion

 

[OldSchool101]

Bills Want Dillon? Cook, Cowboys' Elliott Also on Radar?

As training camp commences, the Buffalo Bills are reportedly interested in adding a running back such as A.J. Dillon, Dalvin Cook or Ezekiel Elliott.

www.si.com

 

[Voyageur]

Bills Want Dillon? Cook, Cowboys' Elliott Also on Radar?

As training camp commences, the Buffalo Bills are reportedly interested in adding a running back such as A.J. Dillon, Dalvin Cook or Ezekiel Elliott.

www.si.com

For the heck of it, assume the Packers traded Dillon to Buffalo before the season starts, and got their 1st round pick. It would add to the picking power the Packers have next year, and if this team is going to fail, would actually enhance our own pick. Or, let's say we didn't get a first, let's say we got a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. Lots of options, if you're throwing in the towel.

Not saying the Packers are going to do this, just saying, "what if" they did.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Bills Want Dillon? Cook, Cowboys' Elliott Also on Radar?

As training camp commences, the Buffalo Bills are reportedly interested in adding a running back such as A.J. Dillon, Dalvin Cook or Ezekiel Elliott.

www.si.com

I don't see the Packers wanting to part with Dillion, for what would be no more than a 3rd round pick.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For the heck of it, assume the Packers traded Dillon to Buffalo before the season starts, and got their 1st round pick. It would add to the picking power the Packers have next year, and if this team is going to fail, would actually enhance our own pick. Or, let's say we didn't get a first, let's say we got a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. Lots of options, if you're throwing in the towel.

Not saying the Packers are going to do this, just saying, "what if" they did.

Might be overvaluing Dillon, at least IMO. Teams are hesitant to spend much on RB's these days, that goes for draft capital or salary. Bills might view it as a 1 year rental on a guy that is good, but so far, not great.

 

[OldSchool101]

It is fun to consider the possibilities.

I think the Bills would be looking for Dillon for what would amount to a later 4th rounder area (or less) I doubt the Packers want to let him go for that. It would breakup the only truly “known” part of our Offense.
It would take a 3rd Rounder at minimum for me and I don’t think Buffalo would part with that. I’d rather have a go at 2023 with our stellar RB1-2 punch intact.