The Jordan Love Era Begins

[OldSchool101]

Is somebody channeling Jeff Fisher and claiming that running more often leads to wins?

Nope. I never said that. Show me the post where I said in some global format. It’s not there. you’re just frustrated because you have no evidence to support your claim on this specific argument.

Stick to the topic. GB. 2022.


Funny how everyone tries to minimize an effective running game, but noone can support it with anything but hyperbole and innuendo and evolves to misrepresenting a poster instead of showing us evidence otherwise.
0-7

I just had someone in here tell me OBJ Jr. has never been anything but a 500 yards wideout. That he’s never surpassed 1,000 yards. I understand things have been a little uncomfortable in GB and that’s caused some undue stress. Yet people are really going wayward when it comes to sports!
Rich Eisen recently proposed that the Jets should send the Packers a conditional future draft Selection in trade for Aaron Rodgers. What??!

Next thing you’ll have me believing is that Princeton has gone Mad in March

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I've long said at the cost of low INTs Rodgers left yards on the table he otherwise would have produced - which is just crazy.

Spot on. Have said the same thing several times myself as well. I get the not wanting to throw picks, but in some situations, you just gotta take those chances and hope your WR wins the battle or pass interference.

 

[OldSchool101]

Spot on. Have said the same thing several times myself as well. I get the not wanting to throw picks, but in some situations, you just gotta take those chances and hope your WR wins the battle or pass interference.

It is true.

-Aaron had 4 seasons where he was top 5 in yards (2008,2009,2011,2016).
*Notice they are all long ago and far away.

Rodgers never finished better than #4 in the league in yards and averaged #8.46 per season against the league (excluding injury seasons)

As a comparison Tom Brady finished 8 for 21 (healthy seasons only) over 4,500 yards

Rodgers is 1 for 13 in 4500 yard seasons (healthy).

 

[Half Empty]

I get it but someone also has to recognize that as Packer fans we have been insanely spoiled with watching a QB for years that just simply didn't turn the ball over...so trust me I fully expect we will see more turnovers happening, but when you are comparing it to literally an outlier in Rodgers' we need to have some perspective on it as well.

I thought we had Favre as the QB for part of that time?

 

[Schultz]

You really just don’t want to face the facts. I actually believed you mid-season, thinking we might actually not perform better once we started running the ball more, because. Respected your aggressive arguing of the topic. Then your argument completely let us down. we ran more and started winning.

Oh oh. Then we doubting ourselves again and resorted back to a near season low 20 Runs against Detroit. How did that work out??
I suppose you’ll tell us it’s because we were so far behind in score again?
Or I suppose you’ll say Detroit was impenetrable on Defense again?
Your argument lost ALL credibility once Matt went full throttle in the RUN game mid season.
31.4 rushes per contest.
Hawaii 5-0 record

I’ll take you for your word.
The fact remains. Your way was WINLESS.
Would you rather Win
7/10?

Or Lose every last game doing it your way?
0/7

Btw I could care less about stats if they result in Losses. I’m here to WIN not trade that for some YPC argument and lose


Bennett? You mean that
286 yards
0 TD’s

Mr. Attitude lockerroom Cancer Bennett??
It’s bordering on disgraceful to even bring Martellus up as the reason why other TE’s weren’t used more.

IMO you have to at least factor in that the defense played much better during that winning streak.

 

[rmontro]

Rodgers never finished better than #4 in the league in yards and averaged #8.46 per season against the league (excluding injury seasons)

As a comparison Tom Brady finished 8 for 21 (healthy seasons only) over 4,500 yards

Rodgers is 1 for 13 in 4500 yard seasons (healthy).

This is something I've always noticed about Rodgers but I don't think I've ever seen it discussed before. You always expected to see Favre at or near the top of the league in yards, he would make for an interesting comparison.

 

[Schultz]

Trying to isolate one factor for a loss or win outside of how many points each team had I see as a frivolous exercise. You can extract tendencies, correlations but we cannot speak definitively that do this (run more, pass more, have more left handed TEs...) and you won because of it.

In your next TE draft update could you please include how many of them are Left handed? Asking for a friend. Thanks in advance.

 

[mradtke66]

This is something I've always noticed about Rodgers but I don't think I've ever seen it discussed before. You always expected to see Favre at or near the top of the league in yards, he would make for an interesting comparison.

Rodgers has typically thrown the ball less that his contemporaries and (duh) total yards tends to be a function of how often you throw. He was particularly efficient in his younger years, but only had a bad year in 2022.

2022: 10th most attempts, 11th yards, 16th YPA
2021: 12th attempts, 10th yards, 6th YPA (MVP 4)
2020: 13th attempts, 7th yards, 3rd YPA (MVP 3)
2019: 8th attempts, 11th yards, 13th YPA (first year of MLF)
2018: 5th in attempts, 6th yards, 13th YPA (last year of MM)

Perhaps the most absurd examples is 2011, when he was 16th in attempts, 5th in yards, 1st YPA.

I don't typically value volume stats. In 2022, Brady had the most attempts, 3rd in yards, 23rd in YPA....one below Baker Mayfield.

 

[ARPackFan]

I've long said at the cost of low INTs Rodgers left yards on the table he otherwise would have produced - which is just crazy.

Spot on. Have said the same thing several times myself as well. I get the not wanting to throw picks, but in some situations, you just gotta take those chances and hope your WR wins the battle or pass interference.

With the defenses that the Packers fielded over Rodgers career I understand why he didn't like to throw interceptions. Chances are it would have led directly to points for the other team.

 

[OldSchool101]

IMO you have to at least factor in that the defense played much better during that winning streak.

I do recognize that. I never at anytime said their weren’t other factors in Wins.
That said, we need to consider that after 9 contests (over half season) we were averaging 17.11 points per game on OFFENSE. That changed pretty drastically for the better down the stretch though when we averaged 27.00 over the last 8 contests. That’s a 10 point increase per game which is massive Offensive points scored increase

Our DEFENSE over those same initial 9 games was a respectable 20.89 allowed per game. Our Defense regressed and allowed 22.88 points per contest over those last 8 games.
So with all due respect, our Defense actually backed up, they certainly don’t get rewarded primary credit for Wins as the season progressed.

My argument is if there’s a Win/Loss pie?
our Offense gets by far the biggest % credit of that for increased production the last 2 Quarters of our 2022 season. I just don’t know why that’s so hard for several posters (not necessarily you) in here to accept.

 

[longtimefan]

So

Love? When will he be top 10

 

[PackerDNA]

So

Love? When will he be top 10

I'd be willing to bet soon. We'll see flashes this season and by the second or third year he'll be there

 

[OldSchool101]

I'd be willing to bet soon. We'll see flashes this season and by the second or third year he'll be there

I think it’s great you think positive. Even if he doesn’t stroke in that top 10, it’s my opinion if we get him ramped up as a top 16 type QB passer rating, this system is robust enough to be successful. Matt’s formula is not as reliant on Pure QB production as many of the leagues Offenses.

That said, if we get a Top 10 Passer rating in a few years? Imo we can be very formidable in Offensive Points Scored. Somewhere in that 24-28 wouldn’t surprise me. We need our Defense to do the rest.

 

[OldSchool101]

This is something I've always noticed about Rodgers but I don't think I've ever seen it discussed before. You always expected to see Favre at or near the top of the league in yards, he would make for an interesting comparison.

Yeah it is interesting. Different styles. I think we all know agree that Rodgers efficiency is off the charts. Although I wouldn’t be super opposed to Jordan throwing for 4,500 yards more regular and in that 35 TD 15 INT area. Push it down the field aggressively and let rely on our Defense to make mostly stops on those extra 6-8 INT across a season.

 

[mradtke66]

I do recognize that. I never at anytime said their weren’t other factors in Wins.
That said, we need to consider that after 9 contests (over half season) we were averaging 17.11 points per game on OFFENSE. That changed pretty drastically for the better down the stretch though when we averaged 27.00 over the last 8 contests. That’s a 10 point increase per game which is massive Offensive points scored increase

I put most of that success on Watson's return/emergence. He went off on the Cowboys and suddenly defenses had to worry about deep passes.

His mere presence helped the run game. Defenses had to account for him and suddenly, heavy boxes disappear. They had to pick their poison--load up to stop the run and die by the big play or play coverage and let Jones and Dillon carve you up 4-5 yards a time.

I want to be clear that I don't dislike running, I just don't believe it is what drove the wins. The increase in runs was a symptom or an effect, not a cause. Having a more-complete offense that gave the defense more than 1 thing to worry about is what allowed the running to become a viable option. In the interest of being funny, call it Fear of Watson.

The one oddity in those wins late in the season is the Miami game. By offense, we should not have won that game. We didn't run well, we didn't pass well, though coincidently, Watson played less than 30% of the snaps. While not a smoking gun, I argue this is evidence is evidence that he ended up being the key to our 2022 offense, even if we're not throwing it to him. If not for Tua's concussion, Miami is a loss.

 

[OldSchool101]

I want to be clear that I don't dislike running, I just don't believe it is what drove the wins.

That’s Fair. You have your opinion I have mine. I think it was a combination of Rodgers getting acclimated, WR getting confidence, our OL finding their way with si many gyrations and our RB’s getting more involved and Aaron Rodgers finger healing up some.
The whole time I suggested us Running more was to do that EARLY in the season, until our WR/WB/TE/OL found their way. It was obvious we were struggling.

I’m not sure how that got misconstrued to “QB’s Rushing, QB’s Kneeling, Passing game isn’t important, ST isn’t important, Defense is irrelevant, Coaching is unnecessary, Turf is better than grass, Hotdogs should have Mustard not Ketchup! or Other ridiculous sideshows that evolved from this that were completely baseless replies.

 

[rmontro]

Perhaps the most absurd examples is 2011, when he was 16th in attempts, 5th in yards, 1st YPA.

That year was crazy. Too bad they couldn't have kept the offense at such a high level. I guess part of it was the league figured out how to stop what GB was doing. Then they got so focused on fixing the defense, eventually the offense started to suffer. I wonder what Rodgers would think if the Packers pick a WR in the first round this year?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You really just don’t want to face the facts. I actually believed you mid-season, thinking we might actually not perform better once we started running the ball more, because. Respected your aggressive arguing of the topic. Then your argument completely let us down. we ran more and started winning.

Take a look at the facts I presented in post #179 of this thread. The Packers started running more because they were winning, they weren't winning because they ran the ball more often.

Oh oh. Then we doubting ourselves again and resorted back to a near season low 20 Runs against Detroit. How did that work out??

The facts clearly show the Packers ran the ball 28 times vs. the Lions in week 18.

Your argument lost ALL credibility once Matt went full throttle in the RUN game mid season.
31.4 rushes per contest.
Hawaii 5-0 record

Once again, you're off. The Packers didn't win five games in a row last season.

Bennett? You mean that
286 yards
0 TD’s

Mr. Attitude lockerroom Cancer Bennett??
It’s bordering on disgraceful to even bring Martellus up as the reason why other TE’s weren’t used more.

I'm not suggesting Bennett put up decent numbers. But it's a fact he was the Packers' #1 tight end for the first seven games of the 2017 season.

That said, we need to consider that after 9 contests (over half season) we were averaging 17.11 points per game on OFFENSE. That changed pretty drastically for the better down the stretch though when we averaged 27.00 over the last 8 contests. That’s a 10 point increase per game which is massive Offensive points scored increase

Our DEFENSE over those same initial 9 games was a respectable 20.89 allowed per game. Our Defense regressed and allowed 22.88 points per contest over those last 8 games.
So with all due respect, our Defense actually backed up, they certainly don’t get rewarded primary credit for Wins as the season progressed.

My argument is if there’s a Win/Loss pie?
our Offense gets by far the biggest % credit of that for increased production the last 2 Quarters of our 2022 season. I just don’t know why that’s so hard for several posters (not necessarily you) in here to accept.

It's weird to compare the performance by the defense over the first nine games to the last eight as no one is suggesting the unit improved in the games vs. the Cowboys, Titans or Eagles. In addition the Packers lost two of those games. There's no doubt the defense improved over the last five games, allowing an average of only 17.6 points with the team winning four of those games.

Just to clarify, there's no doubt the offense played at a higher level as well. We just disagree on the reasons for it.

 

[mradtke66]

That year was crazy. Too bad they couldn't have kept the offense at such a high level. I guess part of it was the league figured out how to stop what GB was doing. Then they got so focused on fixing the defense, eventually the offense started to suffer. I wonder what Rodgers would think if the Packers pick a WR in the first round this year?

I don't so much think the league figured out what they were doing so much as time moved on. 2011 had Cobb as our 5th WR, iirc. (Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, and then Finley) that roster was just stacked. Players got old and moved on.

Once we were no longer so stacked at pass catcher, the lack of a running game hurt us. It was basically the reverse of 2022. Consider:

Teams would sit in a 2-deep shell, pin their ears back, and rush Rodgers. The line wasn't quite good enough to pass block the whole game and we didn't run well. There was no real downside to not playing Cover-2/Man-2.

VS.

Teams would site in a heavy box for most of the game. Clog the rushing lanes and the line wasn't quite good enough to win when the numbers weren't in their favor. And we couldn't win over the top. There was no real downside to not playing Cover-1/Cover-3.

Defenses can take away whatever they want, it's just a question what they are allowing in trade. If you cannot exploit what they are allowing, you're going to suffer.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Nope. I never said that. Show me the post where I said in some global format. It’s not there. you’re just frustrated because you have no evidence to support your claim on this specific argument.

Stick to the topic. GB. 2022.


Funny how everyone tries to minimize an effective running game, but noone can support it with anything but hyperbole and innuendo and evolves to misrepresenting a poster instead of showing us evidence otherwise.
0-7

I just had someone in here tell me OBJ Jr. has never been anything but a 500 yards wideout. That he’s never surpassed 1,000 yards. I understand things have been a little uncomfortable in GB and that’s caused some undue stress. Yet people are really going wayward when it comes to sports!
Rich Eisen recently proposed that the Jets should send the Packers a conditional future draft Selection in trade for Aaron Rodgers. What??!

Next thing you’ll have me believing is that Princeton has gone Mad in March

I never actually said anybody in particular. This topic is so over the map that I really can't keep track of who is saying what. But sure, I got the "L" about, the running game being super important to winning? i think?

 

[OldSchool101]

It's weird to compare the performance by the defense over the first nine games to the last eight as no one is suggesting the unit improved in the games vs. the Cowboys, Titans or Eagles.

I Think it was Schultz? that inferred our Winning run down the stretch was more due to our Defense playing better (he commented on me displaying our Offense playing better) That’s why I addressed that false interpretation as we actually got slightly worse on D. It definitely wasn’t the D winning games at 22+ points allowed.
Is that ok with you? May I still post please Daddy?

 

[Schultz]

You interpreted down the stretch (I don't even think I used that term) as to being the last 8 games. Since we (I thought) were discussing the running game correlating to late season wins I meant how the defense played in the wins late in the season should also be considered.

 

[OldSchool101]

You interpreted down the stretch (I don't even think I used that term) as to being the last 8 games. Since we (I thought) were discussing the running game correlating to late season wins I meant how the defense played in the wins late in the season should also be considered.

Yes other factors should be considered. Simply put Running the ball more helped us and I’m glad we didn’t keep trying that 18,23,21, runs per game stuff. It wasn’t working.

Interesting RG3 just brought up to Tim Hasselbeck that the Jets shouldn’t put the full weight of winning games on Aaron. He said Aaron should definitely manage the Offense, but distribute the ball some more in the Run game also.
I couldn’t help but think RG3 will get ridiculed for weeks in his inbox for suggesting such an audacious maneuver!
He obviously doesn’t value Defenses or QB’s to suggest such a thing!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I Think it was Schultz? that inferred our Winning run down the stretch was more due to our Defense playing better (he commented on me displaying our Offense playing better) That’s why I addressed that false interpretation as we actually got slightly worse on D. It definitely wasn’t the D winning games at 22+ points allowed.

What's the point of including two losses against the Titans and Eagles into consideration when talking about the reasons the Packers won four in a row? There's no doubt the defense improved during the winning streak, allowing an average of 17.0 points. On top of it the defense and special teams scored the first 14 points against the Vikings.

 

[OldSchool101]

What's the point of including two losses against the Titans and Eagles into consideration when talking about the reasons the Packers won four in a row? There's no doubt the defense improved during the winning streak, allowing an average of 17.0 points. On top of it the defense and special teams scored the first 14 points against the Vikings.

How in the world have you regressed to this? I’ll need a Sentential Derivative calculator to see how far you’ve spun from our original debate!

Check this out. RG3 said Aaron Rodgers better think about getting his derrière acclimated with his Receivers earlier this season to avoid a repeat of Week 1 of the last several seasons.
Then he went in to say the Jets should Run the ball more and not rely on Aaron Rodgers to carry the entire team on his shoulders!

Is that DUO crazy stuff or what! I couldn’t believe my ears he sounded like me in his thick black rimmed glasses! Can you believe his audacity to suggest what I’ve been saying to you since almost a year ago? He tripped me out with those totally rad ideas!