The Jordan Love Era Begins

[milani]

I would also add that during each QB's time as a backup, Rodgers was working with a much better receiving room.

Well, the call for Love was slightly different from Rodgers in that Favre started every game after Majik went down as a GB Packer. Rodgers got in due to an injury in the Dallas game and due to injury and in 06 against the Pats in a game we lost like 35-0. I believe when he went into the Viking game we were up like 34-0. And in Mike Sherman's final game as our HC Favre started in a meaningless game against Seattle when our record was 3-12. Whereas Love got a few bits and pieces like half the Lion finale but got a truly meaningful start against KC.

 

[milani]

Wow, you don't even remember the 2010 season.

And in 07 and 11 I believe the Giants won a SB without a very impressive regular season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As far as impact of Jordan Love, you have statistics to support your view that he has had no impact.

I have my perception and judgement that picking Love motivated Rodgers to perform better. I also have knowledgable football people close to the situation who have expressed a similar opinion.

Neither of us can prove our opinions as the truth lies in the brain of Rodgers.

Well, I can support by point of view with facts. You, on the other hand, need to make things up solely based on random speculations that fit your narrative.

Unfortunately we're living in a time when both are weighted equally for some stupid reason.

I never said they wouldn't be happy. I stated they would say "Ya but.."

No matter the success of Love, there will be people that will die on the hill of 'Jordan Love should have never been drafted'. I don't think this is any great insight.

I highly doubt there will be a single Packers fan suggesting Love should have never been drafted if he ends up winning a Super Bowl with the Packers.

There were people who were upset when Green Bay "wasted" a first-round draft pick on Rodgers as well.

As they say, if you listen to the fans, you'll end up sitting with them.

Rodgers developing into a HOFer means diddly-squad for how Love will end up working out though.

That really would be insane, as Rodgers' is one of the greatest of all time. Us older guys may never see anyone as good on the Packers.

It's even possible for young fans that they will never experience another quarterback as good as Rodgers playing for the Packers.

 

[Mondio]

Wow, you don't even remember the 2010 season.

again, he was specifically talking about the team that got destroyed by the Vikings in an embarassing home loss 30 something to 10's of somethings. THAT team was not a super bowl team. The team GB put on the field the season before Rodgers was drafted. not the 2010 team who was clearly much better on paper and when it counted. One old and declining in need of reset, the other ascending and young. as evidenced by their respective following seasons. One team mustered 4 wins, the other was again a super bowl favorite with 15 wins. There are vast differences between the 04 and the '10 team Sunshine wasn't comparing them. It was the season before Love was drafted vs the team before Rodgers was drafted.

a roster that goes 10-6 early exit then 4- and whatever is a poor roster, a roster in need of change vs a team that wins 13, they draft a replacement and goes 13 wins in the next 2 seasons. That is what was being compared. Everyone should keep that in mind.

There is the consistent presence that introduces something into an argument or debate then completely moves on from the point they themselves were making to try and throw shade at someone who effectively refutes it.

Sunshines entire point was the season before Rodgers was drafted was not a super bowl caliber team. not that 10-6 teams an not be super bowl caliber teams

 

[AmishMafia]

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What's truly appropriate about this picture, is you chose a species that throws its own feces as a defense mechanism.

Post of the week!

 

[Krabs]

Pat Mahomes threw 7 picks in his first 6 training camps as a rookie.

So, again, I said games are not won in OTA's. It's just offseason chatter. My only point was that I would rather be hearing he is doing really well. Regardless, I agree that it's only OTAs. Just something to talk about in a long offseason.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That really would be insane, as Rodgers' is one of the greatest of all time. Us older guys may never see anyone as good on the Packers.

Don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes I think "older" Packer fans are still suffering from 70's and 80's Packer PTSD. Sometimes change is good and it was definitely time to change QB's.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nope. Not what I said at all.

He was, of course, in decline for several years. Arm strength, accuracy, and pocket movement decline was obvious. It was his decline in attitude that mostly affected the success of the team. It was the drafting of Love that had the affected his attitude. Rodgers attitude went from spoiled petulant child to a spoiled petulant older child with something to prove. Not ideal, but at least it spurred him on. Although his success was chiefly attributable to having a stellar WR in Adams, once Adams left, Rodgers strugggled.

Adams was the exception to the WR rule in GB - that rule was that Rodgers made all the WRs look good to great. It certainly helped Adams' stellar development to have Rodgers as his QB, but Adams is a unique talent all on his own.

And Rodgers did struggle with an all new cast of receivers, I guess Cobb and Lazard excluded. His reluctance to throw INTs and mistrust of rookies, while admirable, probably left a lot of yards/TDs to be gained over his career. A little more risk taking on Rodgers' part likely would have yielded better results over the years.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Let's face it. The Packers blew it big time not winning more than one SB with a QB of Rodgers' talent.

If your only measurement of success is Super Bowls, I might somewhat agree with you. However, winning just one SB, is more than a lot of teams and players have done in the same time frame.

In my opinion, the Packers were very successful during Rodgers time in Green Bay and he was a big part of it. The organization itself has flourished under the current management. TitleTown is in great shape, with or without 1 player, even when his name is Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So, again, I said games are not won in OTA's. It's just offseason chatter. My only point was that I would rather be hearing he is doing really well. Regardless, I agree that it's only OTAs. Just something to talk about in a long offseason.

I get your point, but sometimes the best way to learn is through our mistakes. I remember one article a week or two ago talking about Love breaking one of MLF's cardinal rules and that was throwing a ball late. Love did and it was picked off. Guessing lesson learned and it didn't cost the team anything to learn it at OTA's.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I guess you forgot that the 2010 Packers went 10-6, before going on to win The Superbowl? No optimism or pessimism there, just facts.

I'm ecstatic they won! They went 11-5 in 2009 and THEN DRAFTED TWO PLAYERS IN THE FIRST ROUND TO HELP THEM WIN A SUPERBOWL!!!! That's the strategy I support, not the "who needs a Super Bowl in the short term when we can have an unknown player in the long-term" strategy.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Wow, you don't even remember the 2010 season.

My wording was extremely poor. I didn't think going into the 2010 they were a favorite to win the Super Bowl. According to Vegas odds in the pre-season, they were given the 12th best odds of winning the Super Bowl.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm ecstatic they won! They went 11-5 in 2009 and THEN DRAFTED TWO PLAYERS IN THE FIRST ROUND TO HELP THEM WIN A SUPERBOWL!!!! That's the strategy I support, not the "who needs a Super Bowl in the short term when we can have an unknown player in the long-term" strategy.

LOL....love how your narrative rolls with all the changes, you should have been a drummer for REO!

So how did you feel about last season? The Packers were coming off of another 13 win season, used 2 first round picks on "players to help them win a SB" and they go 8-9, with Aaron Rodgers as their QB. Guessing that in your eyes, the player they would have picked instead of Love, would have been the difference last season too?

You never addressed my comparing the stats of Lazard and your "alternate pick", Pittman. Why not? Because you saw they were basically the same and Pittman wouldn't have made a difference?

The point I am trying to make is that your convenient "argument" that the drafting of Jordan Love cost the Packers potential SB's is a silly one. I can point to several things that "cost the Packers SB's" and they would be a lot more specific then pinning it on one player, one draft pick. I get it, you hated the pick and that dislike makes you want to take anything bad that has happened and use it to back up your feelings.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

LOL....love how your narrative rolls with all the changes, you should have been a drummer for REO!

So how did you feel about last season? The Packers were coming off of another 13 win season, used 2 first round picks on "players to help them win a SB" and they go 8-9, with Aaron Rodgers as their QB. Guessing that in your eyes, the player they would have picked instead of Love, would have been the difference last season too?

You never addressed my comparing the stats of Lazard and your "alternate pick", Pittman. Why not? Because you saw they were basically the same and Pittman wouldn't have made a difference?

The point I am trying to make is that your convenient "argument" that the drafting of Jordan Love cost the Packers potential SB's is a silly one. I can point to several things that "cost the Packers SB's" and they would be a lot more specific then pinning it on one player, one draft pick. I get it, you hated the pick and that dislike makes you want to take anything bad that has happened and use it to back up your feelings.

I absolutely compared Pittman to Lazard. As I said, specifically, Pittman is a better receiever (he managed over 1,000 yards with Wents as his QB) though he's a lesser blocker. You say my criticism of the Love pick is silly but I would argue that your constant defense of "nobody else could have helped the Packers more in 2020 or 2021 than a player who didn't help at all" is just a touch more ridiculous. Many fans, and intelligent media members (e.g., Mina Kimes, PFF, bill barnwell), criticized the Love selection because there were numerous reasons to imagine that Rodgers would improve markedly in the 2020 season, and it turns out that those reasons were accurate and that those who disagreed were wrong.

I hope Love is terrific, but it's irrefutable that he didn't help the 2020 or 2021 teams advance to the Super Bowl while a player who made any impact on the field in either of those seasons would have made a larger impact. Those seasons are done though and now we can see if Love was worth the lack of production his draft slot has provided thus far.

 

[OldSchool101]

And in 07 and 11 I believe the Giants won a SB without a very impressive regular season.

Yes. At our expense!

OT loss with Favrey. So close and then the Giants went on to Win it all against an undefeated NE. Weird season, the Giants lost to Cowboys Packers early regular season and beat the Cowboys, Packers in postseason.

2011 Postseason we couldn’t do anything right. Probably the most disappointing Playoff loss I’ve witnessed. We certainly can’t complain that we didn’t have good WR weapons either. The Giants we’re very respectful with multiple players coming to our sideline to offer condolences to Coach Philbin. Including RB Bradshaw. There’s a great memory I have of A Bradshaw hugging J Philbin and I’ve always felt differently about the Giants after that.
Some things just transcend the score.

So there’s hope for Jordan. We can have a Sloppy regular season (Giants) and tear it up in the postseason!

 

[milani]

again, he was specifically talking about the team that got destroyed by the Vikings in an embarassing home loss 30 something to 10's of somethings. THAT team was not a super bowl team. The team GB put on the field the season before Rodgers was drafted. not the 2010 team who was clearly much better on paper and when it counted. One old and declining in need of reset, the other ascending and young. as evidenced by their respective following seasons. One team mustered 4 wins, the other was again a super bowl favorite with 15 wins. There are vast differences between the 04 and the '10 team Sunshine wasn't comparing them. It was the season before Love was drafted vs the team before Rodgers was drafted.

a roster that goes 10-6 early exit then 4- and whatever is a poor roster, a roster in need of change vs a team that wins 13, they draft a replacement and goes 13 wins in the next 2 seasons. That is what was being compared. Everyone should keep that in mind.

There is the consistent presence that introduces something into an argument or debate then completely moves on from the point they themselves were making to try and throw shade at someone who effectively refutes it.

Sunshines entire point was the season before Rodgers was drafted was not a super bowl caliber team. not that 10-6 teams an not be super bowl caliber teams

The 2004 team was certainly not a SB team. They had a porous defense under Slowik that got burned left and right. However, they did win both regular season contests vs. the Vikings 34-31 on game ending FGs before falling asleep in January. Now the 2003 team was capable of getting to the SB but very unlikely to win it. The NFC was not as strong as the AFC in that decade which had Brady and Manning.

 

[milani]

Yes. At our expense!

OT loss with Favrey. So close and then the Giants went on to Win it all against an undefeated NE. Weird season, the Giants lost to Cowboys Packers early regular season and beat the Cowboys, Packers in postseason.

2011 Postseason we couldn’t do anything right. Probably the most disappointing Playoff loss I’ve witnessed. We certainly can’t complain that we didn’t have good WR weapons either. The Giants we’re very respectful with multiple players coming to our sideline to offer condolences to Coach Philbin. Including RB Bradshaw. There’s a great memory I have of A Bradshaw hugging J Philbin and I’ve always felt differently about the Giants after that.
Some things just transcend the score.

So there’s hope for Jordan. We can have a Sloppy regular season (Giants) and tear it up in the postseason!

Coughlin truly outclassed MM. His game plan under those Arctic conditions worked well. His kicker kept us in the game long enough.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I wish more posters in this thread realized this 20 pages ago. And didn't spread it across half a dozen other threads. But it did keep the board more active than the past few seasons during the off season.

Posters :

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[pacmaniac]

The 2004 team was certainly not a SB team. They had a porous defense under Slowik that got burned left and right. However, they did win both regular season contests vs. the Vikings 34-31 on game ending FGs before falling asleep in January. Now the 2003 team was capable of getting to the SB but very unlikely to win it. The NFC was not as strong as the AFC in that decade which had Brady and Manning.

If Jake Delhomme could almost beat the Patriots, then maybe the Packers could have that year.

 

[milani]

If Jake Delhomme could almost beat the Patriots, then maybe the Packers could have that year.

We may have had a chance but the Panthers were a little better than us on defense that year. They were more physical and would bust people in the mouth. But with Favre under center anything big and surprising could happen.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And Rodgers did struggle with an all new cast of receivers, I guess Cobb and Lazard excluded. His reluctance to throw INTs and mistrust of rookies, while admirable, probably left a lot of yards/TDs to be gained over his career. A little more risk taking on Rodgers' part likely would have yielded better results over the years.

In my opinion Rodgers not having trusted rookies is a bit overblown. Taking a look at targets by rookie receivers since 2008 the Packers rank 23rd in the league with 535. Considering they had one of the best WR corps for a large part of his career, being only one of three teams which didn't spend a first rounder on the position and being close to some other teams in front of them there might not be a lot of truth in it at all.

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So how did you feel about last season? The Packers were coming off of another 13 win season, used 2 first round picks on "players to help them win a SB" and they go 8-9, with Aaron Rodgers as their QB. Guessing that in your eyes, the player they would have picked instead of Love, would have been the difference last season too?

As several posters have pointed out repeatedly the Packers selecting another prospect in the first round of the 2020 wouldn't automatically have resulted in them winning the Super Bowl. But by drafting Love it all but guaranteed that their most precious asset that offseason wouldn't be of any help that year.

You never addressed my comparing the stats of Lazard and your "alternate pick", Pittman. Why not? Because you saw they were basically the same and Pittman wouldn't have made a difference?

While Pittman didn't put up significantly better numbers as a rookie compared to Lazard in 2020 he was a far superior player in '21. Might have helped having him against the Niners compared to Love sitting on the bench.

So there’s hope for Jordan. We can have a Sloppy regular season (Giants) and tear it up in the postseason!

Unfortunately I expect the Packers to have too much of a sloppy season to make it to the playoffs this year.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm ecstatic they won! They went 11-5 in 2009 and THEN DRAFTED TWO PLAYERS IN THE FIRST ROUND TO HELP THEM WIN A SUPERBOWL!!!! That's the strategy I support, not the "who needs a Super Bowl in the short term when we can have an unknown player in the long-term" strategy.

If this is true? Both the 2022 and 2024 drafts have TWO 1st Rounders and 2023 had TWO earlier 2nd Rounders. That’s 3 consecutive drafts with THREE top #50 selections (2022,2023,likely 2024)all just as Jordan Love takes Center stage.

You just might be onto something here this is very reminiscent of a repeat of 2008-2010. I’m hoping you are correct, that means ‘25 is our year! YEAH BABY!!You’ve got me pumped!

 

[OldSchool101]

Unfortunately I expect the Packers to have too much of a sloppy season to make it to the playoffs this year.

I can see that. There’s so many new guys there’s just too many unknowns. One things for sure, the Packers will either be really good or really bad.. or even possibly in between (I’m not feeling real confident either way)

 

[milani]

In my opinion Rodgers not having trusted rookies is a bit overblown. Taking a look at targets by rookie receivers since 2008 the Packers rank 23rd in the league with 535. Considering they had one of the best WR corps for a large part of his career, being only one of three teams which didn't spend a first rounder on the position and being close to some other teams in front of them there might not be a lot of truth in it at all.

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As several posters have pointed out repeatedly the Packers selecting another prospect in the first round of the 2020 wouldn't automatically have resulted in them winning the Super Bowl. But by drafting Love it all but guaranteed that their most precious asset that offseason wouldn't be of any help that year.



While Pittman didn't put up significantly better numbers as a rookie compared to Lazard in 2020 he was a far superior player in '21. Might have helped having him against the Niners compared to Love sitting on the bench.



Unfortunately I expect the Packers to have too much of a sloppy season to make it to the playoffs this year.

Now had Rodgers gone down to injury in 2020 just as he did in 2013 and 2017 Love would definitely have had to be of use to us.

 

[OldSchool101]

Now had Rodgers gone down to injury in 2020 just as he did in 2013 and 2017 Love would definitely have had to be of use to us.

These scenarios give us a glimpse of how they valued Love. Not much is more important to Brian than draft picks. A Day1 by itself is a very careful thought out plan. Using a 1st/4th when you know good and well he’s a project is very telling to me. Brian did say in an interview they didn’t have any other draft pick left that they felt strongly about. They felt strongly about Love though.

Imo. I truly think The Packers had Jordan graded top #15-#25 parameter range. When he got to past that and no other player was a bonafide top #30 it was already discussed beforehand. I also believe they were not at all afraid of Aaron as he looked to be 36 years old and shrinking a little bit. Had Aaron been 33 and coming off a All Pro season there’s zero chance we go QB. He was turning 37 and showing possible signs of tapering. He was probably good for another 2-3 seasons here. Time to groom a QB. Ok maybe 1 yearly early, but Love needed 2-3 years anyhow and he was a good value. That tells me they really think he’s a legit starting caliber QB