The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Mondio]

He took plenty of chances, when he had guys he trusted to make plays, and usually gave them the best chance to make it. Guys that showed they were going to make the play more often than not. Guys that earned it.

He took more chances last year out of necessity. How’d that work out for us? I’d say his risk aversion helped us win a lot more than we lost because of it. And it’s not even close

 

[thequick12]

I don't understand your point about learning from Favre, unless you meant Rodgers did the opposite of Favre when it came to risk tolerance.

I do agree that while Rodgers INT numbers are incredibly low, it is a reflection of risk avoidance. Ya gotta take chances in almost all areas of life to get ahead, and Rodgers seemed to value a low pick stat over more production. That's amazing considering how productive he was, but he certainly could have taken more chances now and then.

Skipped a "can't" there. It was supposed to say..."I can't throw pics like that"

 

[OldSchool101]

He took plenty of chances, when he had guys he trusted to make plays, and usually gave them the best chance to make it. Guys that showed they were going to make the play more often than not. Guys that earned it.

He took more chances last year out of necessity. How’d that work out for us? I’d say his risk aversion helped us win a lot more than we lost because of it. And it’s not even close

I agree with some of that. Although I think he was talking about being ultra cautious across multiple seasons, not just last season (newer Receiving Roster). My opinion last season is that 2-3 INT were directly the cause of an injury. Had Rodgers been healthy he’s in that 8-10 INT range in 2022.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Skipped a "can't" there. It was supposed to say..."I can't throw pics like that"

Gotcha, thanks. Kinda like do as I say, not as I do.

 

[thequick12]

Gotcha, thanks. Kinda like do as I say, not as I do.

More that guy could be the best ever if he didnt throw so many picks. Im not gonna be so careless

 

[pacmaniac]

He took more chances last year out of necessity. How’d that work out for us?

He did have to take more chances, especially with the season on the brink, and he managed to win 4 out of the last 5 games.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Last season ss rookies, Watson and Doubs had 1036 yards and 10 receiving td's on about 130 attemps. Now that Lazard and Cobb are gone, they should get a lot of those throws. What's a realistic amount of production from the receiving corps from Love as qb? Watson and Doubs 1400 yards, 12 td's on 200 throws? RB's 750 yards and 6 td's. TE's 750 yards and 6 td's. Everybody else - 700 yards, 4 td's. I don't expect any receiver to go over 1,000 yards but if Watson stays healthy, Love should be able to find him for 900 yards and 8 tds which would make for a nice second season. He could explode and have a monster season but I wouldn't expect that with Love's inexperience and his inability to stay healthy.

With Lazard and Cobb gone opponents will put their best cornerbacks on Watson and Doubs as well. That might make it tougher for them to improve on their numbers from last season.

This whole "draft another QB" mentality is troubling for me. Go through the last 20 drafts and of all the QB's selected in the entire draft, how many worked out well? Maybe Packer fans are spoiled, because for the last 30 years, we have had back to back HOF QB's? Love may be the next guy or he may not be, but if he isn't, let the process of finding the next one begin.

We have no idea if Love ends up working out at this point. Therefore I consider the suggestion the Packers could have just drafted another quarterback to be legit. If Jordan ends up being a success I agree that argument to be moot though.

Yeah it would have been silly to use a high draft pick on a QB this year or in the prior two years. I'm pretty certain that the FO and coaches have enough confidence in Love to give him two years.

The poster was obviously talking that it would have been an option to select a quarterback early if the Packers didn't draft Love back in 2020.

I started from the '10 draft (13 yr history) and these are the "decent" QB's NOT drafted in the 1st round:
'11 - Dalton (Rnd 2, pick 3); Kaepernick (2,4)
'12 - Wilson (3,12); Foles (3,15); Cousins (4,7)
'13 - Geno Smith (2,7)
'14 - Carr (2,4); Garoppolo (2,30)
'16 - Brissett (3,29); Prescott (4,37)
'19 - Minshew (6,5)
'20 - Hurts (2,21)
'21 - Davis Mills (3,3)
Purdy (7,41) is the only QB from '22 or '23 with any success, so far.

While not a popular pick Love at #26 was playing the odds. Not much QB success after round 1 so Gute took a shot... couldn't leave the cupboard bare, IMHO.

Going back earlier than 2010 VERY FEW QB's after round 1 did anything in the NFL except for Josh McCown, Brady, and maybe even Schaub & Garrard. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

It's interesting to take a look at quarterbacks selected outside of the top 10 picks since 2010 before Love was selected and see how that worked out. Here's the list:

2010 - Tim Tebow (25)
2011 - Christian Ponder (12)
2012 - Brandon Weeden (22)
2013 - EJ Manuel (16)
2014 - Johnny Manziel (22), Teddy Bridgewater (32)
2016 - Paxton Lynch (26)
2017 - Deshaun Watson (12)
2018 - Lamar Jackson (32)
2019 - Dwayne Haskins (15)

Only two out of those 10 players ended up being a success. Therefore the Packers weren't actually playing the odds when drafting Love.

Good stuff and seems to be inline with my general "feeling" of just how difficult it is to land a quality QB in the draft. Even in Free Agency it can be a total crap shoot. Look at what Denver did last season.

It's true that it's extremely difficult to find a franchise quarterback even by using a first rounder on the position. Therefore it's not smart to select one that early coming off making it to the NFCCG while having a HOFer at the position who was adamant about wanting to play into his 40s with your team at that point.

Agreed. Something which people that continue to express their unhappiness with the Love pick don't really consider. Imagine had the Packers not drafted Love in 2020, but waited and selected a QB in the 2022 draft. So instead of selecting Quay Walker, they move up and grab Kenny Pickett. Packers go 8-9 and the critics go nuts, pointing to the selection of Pickett as a big reason why the Packers failed in 2022.

I would have been fine with waiting until Rodgers was gone to select a QB early in the draft.

When Rodger first followed the MLF scheme, it was effective. Prior to seasons we were sub 500. We won 13 games each of the next 3 seasons. It was tough to know what play was coming as AR was taking the ball from under center. Freezing the ILBs for 0.5 sec because they didn't know pass or rush was big. We ran less of that because I think Rodgers wanted to see the playing field as things develop from the shotgun. Just my hunch.

Actually the percentage of snaps Rodgers lined up under center didn't change a whole lot over the four seasons since MLF took over.

2019 23.85%
2020 26.54%
2021 24.54%
2022 21.41%

I guess the number mainly dropped last season because of him having suffered a broken thumb.

I think Love has lots of good qualities. I’m not sure why some people are so down on him.

I haven't seen anyone being down on Love at this point. Actually that would be foolish. I'm not ready to announce him a success either though.

 

[Heyjoe4]

More that guy could be the best ever if he didnt throw so many picks. Im not gonna be so careless

I've thought about that. But Favre chose to take a lot of chances. If he had tried to be more careful with the ball, and I'm not even certain that was possible, he wouldn't have been Favre.

Interesting though that Favre has the most INTs for a HOF QB, Rodgers will have the least, and they both won one SB. And Favre made it to two SBs.

 

[AmishMafia]

I've thought about that. But Favre chose to take a lot of chances. If he had tried to be more careful with the ball, and I'm not even certain that was possible, he wouldn't have been Favre.

Interesting though that Favre has the most INTs for a HOF QB, Rodgers will have the least, and they both won one SB. And Favre made it to two SBs.

Some of Favres picks were just really stupid. I didnt mind so much the 'extend the play and then try a tight window for a huge play', that was exciting and had better than 50/50. What needed fixing was the really bad dumb rookie level throws into triple coverage when someone else was open kind of stupid plays. It was like a 12 year old saying "watch this, this will be so cool!", to his buds.

As far as SBs go, I think both of Favres SBs can be more attributes to an outstanding defenses than great QB play.

Interesting now that Favre has turned the whole intercepting thing around now that HE intercepts welfare funds meant for the poor and give to entertain wealthy sports enthusiasts. A reverse Robin Hood if you will.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Some of Favres picks were just really stupid. I didnt mind so much the 'extend the play and then try a tight window for a huge play', that was exciting and had better than 50/50. What needed fixing was the really bad dumb rookie level throws into triple coverage when someone else was open kind of stupid plays. It was like a 12 year old saying "watch this, this will be so cool!", to his buds.

As far as SBs go, I think both of Favres SBs can be more attributes to an outstanding defenses than great QB play.

Interesting now that Favre has turned the whole intercepting thing around now that HE intercepts welfare funds meant for the poor and give to entertain wealthy sports enthusiasts. A reverse Robin Hood if you will.

All good points Amish. The best example of a totally needless pic was when the Vikings played the Saints in the NFCCG, I think it was 2008 or 2009. The Vikes were in range and only needed a FG to win. For some reason, a pass was called or Favre audibles to it. No one was open and all he had to do was fall down. Nope, he threw a short pass with no upside even if it was caught. Well it was caught, by the Saints and they went on to win the SB.

And then he threw a game ending pic against the Giants in OT, again in the NFCCG at Lambeau. The Giants went on to win on a bitter cold night and then they won the SB.

And it's disgusting to steal from anyone, but the poor? Maybe he didn't know initially what was going on. He is not an intellectual. But by now he knows and I don't recall any public apology or return of funds. Maybe that has happened, but it's a huge and deserved cloud over his HOF head.

 

[AmishMafia]

And it's disgusting to steal from anyone, but the poor? Maybe he didn't know initially what was going on. He is not an intellectual. But by now he knows and I don't recall any public apology or return of funds. Maybe that has happened, but it's a huge and deserved cloud over his HOF head.

They recovered his text messages to the other conspirators saying "and nobody can find out about this?" And other messages clearly showing he knew it was wrong and worried he could be caught.

He was paid a million dollars by the state for making speeches which he in turn donated to Southern Miss for a volleyball stadium. He never made the speeches - they were never even scheduled (but he was paid) and he did return the money.

 

[Heyjoe4]

They recovered his text messages to the other conspirators saying "and nobody can find out about this?" And other messages clearly showing he knew it was wrong and worried he could be caught.

He was paid a million dollars by the state for making speeches which he in turn donated to Southern Miss for a volleyball stadium. He never made the speeches - they were never even scheduled (but he was paid) and he did return the money.

Interesting. So he actually did pay for the volleyball stadium, well indirectly.

 

[OldSchool101]

With Lazard and Cobb gone opponents will put their best cornerbacks on Watson and Doubs as well. That might make it tougher for them to improve on their numbers from last season.

It’s a good point and logical way to look at it. I’d even maybe adjust Watson/Doubs numbers down a smidge. On the contrary I could see that diverting some success to another target. Reed? A TE? I expect one of those Slot or TE to thrive.

That said. Naturally Watson or Doubs should see considerable more targets, thus they’ll have some increase but maybe a more modest increase.

I haven't seen anyone being down on Love at this point.

Really?? You have literally been nominated the Captain of “Anti-Jordan Love “. I’m glad to see you’re coming around some though.

Listen , I do get it though, many people operate “in the seen” and if we are not yet operating on Faith (notice I said yet) many of us need evidence at every corner. Well I’ve learned on my time here on Earth that the more knowledge I attain? the more I realize how little I actually know. Now Wisdom on the other hand is an entirely different matter. If they had a Wisdom cell phone (without using the original sin bitten apple as an icon, which for anyone who closely studies history knows it essentially represents deception) now I might invest heavily in that Wisdom technology

 

[mradtke66]

Really?? You have literally been nominated the Captain of “Anti-Jordan Love “. I’m glad to see you’re coming around some though.

Important distinction, because I'm sure I come across the same.

I am tentatively hopeful to pessimistic about Love the player. Mostly because how many QBs fail, regardless of how good they look. I was lukewarm on the timing of the pick. Somewhat still am.

Right now, he's our QB, so I'll cheer for him. The end.

 

[OldSchool101]

Important distinction, because I'm sure I come across the same.

I am tentatively hopeful to pessimistic about Love the player. Mostly because how many QBs fail, regardless of how good they look. I was lukewarm on the timing of the pick. Somewhat still am.

Right now, he's our QB, so I'll cheer for him. The end.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with balancing expectations, we should all do that. I don’t recall you incessantly and similarly going after Jordan Love is some seeming attempt to diminish him.
However once a particular fan (Captain) intentionally draws up a superfluous level of negative posts in relation to our QB across a broad spectrum of time? then I’ll occasionally call said poster out or tease them a little when they backslide some and try to pretend it didn’t happen. It’s simply called recalling factual history to keep people on the level.

Ironically (unintentionally or unknowingly or otherwise) taking negative, repetitive and abundant “slights” against Jordan are as much “making predictions” as any other example I could think of (not inferring you at all). It’s Possibly even more predictive than someone being overly optimistic.

 

[mradtke66]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with balancing expectations, we should all do that. I don’t recall you incessantly and similarly going after Jordan Love is some seeming attempt to diminish him.
However once a particular fan (Captain) intentionally draws up a superfluous level of negative posts in relation to our QB across a broad spectrum of time? then I’ll occasionally call said poster out or tease them a little when they backslide some and try to pretend it didn’t happen. It’s simply called recalling factual history to keep people on the level.

Ironically (unintentionally or unknowingly or otherwise) taking negative, repetitive and abundant “slights” against Jordan are as much “making predictions” as any other example I could think of (not inferring you at all). It’s Possibly even more predictive than someone being overly optimistic.

I'd say I don't think Cap is going after Love. I do think he and I are of similar minds about the timing of drafting Rodgers' replacement. The pick will always be under greater scrutiny.

As far as how will the team fare, I'm also of a similar mind as Cap that I worry about the flaws on offense, specifically our pass catchers. I don't know if the shortcomings from 2022 have been addresses or if they can even be addressed in just one offseason. We're more or less going to live or die based on how well Watson plays/grows/is available.

As far as the player, I have no idea on Love. He's following similarly to Rodgers' path, but obviously it's different. Rodgers in 2007 (that was 2007, right?) against the Cowboys gave me legitimate hope. Love in 2022 against the Eagles gave me, "He has demonstrated that he is a professional quarterback." That's faint praise, but it's still the safe money to be pessimistic.

 

[gopkrs]

The Packers lack proven talent at pass catchers compared to most other teams in the league. While the youngsters might develop into a good unit at some point down the road I fully expect them to have a hard time performing at a decent level this season.

So we all have to go to the same old dog and pony show again this year dad?

 

[lambeaulambo]

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Is that Grambling?

 

[JK64]

You're correct but you seem to want it both ways. If he's terrible then Gluten should have known that and drafted another QB in the last couple of years. If he's good then Gluten made the right call in 2020. Can't have it both ways, and Gluten can't see into the future.

Why not? If Love is good, then it's hats off to Gluten. If he blows then who do we blame?

 

[OldSchool101]

I'd say I don't think Cap is going after Love. I do think he and I are of similar minds about the timing of drafting Rodgers' replacement. The pick will always be under greater scrutiny.

Thank you. You just solidified what I already pretty much knew. The repeated rebuttals to anything positive about Love had to do more with the disappointment of the draft pick. It’s pretty obvious no poster could hate on Love to that extent unless there were more personal reasons behind the motivation. It didn’t fit someone’s personal desires and thus someone else was going to pay for it in pounds of flesh.

I Might add though that going about repeated attempts at diminishing a player over some personal desire shows an gross inability to use discernment and that leads to mischaracterization of Love.
In short form.. it leads to a biased evaluation or prejudicial judgement of a player.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Really?? You have literally been nominated the Captain of “Anti-Jordan Love “. I’m glad to see you’re coming around some though.

That's because a lot of posters don't read (or comprehend) what I'm actually posting.

I have never mentioned anything about Love ending up being a bust. I have pointed out that him throwing the most interceptions in the FBS in 2019 as well as his inability to read the Chiefs' defense in his only start so far is reason for concern. With that being said, I have absolutely no idea how he will end up working out as a starter. And neither do any of you.

I have said that a lot of times, I definitely didn't like that the Packers selecting a quarterback in the first round of the 2020 draft. That has nothing to do with Love but in my opinion it was a waste of a pick to spend it on the position.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with balancing expectations, we should all do that. I don’t recall you incessantly and similarly going after Jordan Love is some seeming attempt to diminish him.
However once a particular fan (Captain) intentionally draws up a superfluous level of negative posts in relation to our QB across a broad spectrum of time?

Please, link to a single post in which I diminished Love so far.

 

[PikeBadger]

With Lazard and Cobb gone opponents will put their best cornerbacks on Watson and Doubs as well. That might make it tougher for them to improve on their numbers from last season.



We have no idea if Love ends up working out at this point. Therefore I consider the suggestion the Packers could have just drafted another quarterback to be legit. If Jordan ends up being a success I agree that argument to be moot though.



The poster was obviously talking that it would have been an option to select a quarterback early if the Packers didn't draft Love back in 2020.



It's interesting to take a look at quarterbacks selected outside of the top 10 picks since 2010 before Love was selected and see how that worked out. Here's the list:

2010 - Tim Tebow (25)
2011 - Christian Ponder (12)
2012 - Brandon Weeden (22)
2013 - EJ Manuel (16)
2014 - Johnny Manziel (22), Teddy Bridgewater (32)
2016 - Paxton Lynch (26)
2017 - Deshaun Watson (12)
2018 - Lamar Jackson (32)
2019 - Dwayne Haskins (15)

Only two out of those 10 players ended up being a success. Therefore the Packers weren't actually playing the odds when drafting Love.

Or Rodgers.

The Falcons also drafted Favre outside the top 10 and the Packers also gave up an outside the top 10 pick in the 1st round for Favre.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Thank you. You just solidified what I already pretty much knew. The repeated rebuttals to anything positive about Love had to do more with the disappointment of the draft pick. It’s pretty obvious no poster could hate on Love to that extent unless there were more personal reasons behind the motivation. It didn’t fit someone’s personal desires and thus someone else was going to pay for it in pounds of flesh.

I Might add though that going about repeated attempts at diminishing a player over some personal desire shows an gross inability to use discernment and that leads to mischaracterization of Love.
In short form.. it leads to a biased evaluation or prejudicial judgement of a player.

While I agree with you, this is a forum and if some of the player critiques get personal, get used to it. Commenters are free to like and dislike the player or the player's performance and pretty much for any reason. It's not necessary to agree and it's probably best to leave it behind. Personally, I have enough going on without letting a sports forum occupy time in my head.

As an example, I cringe at posters referring to players by their first names. Many times it's just confusing, and on other occasions it suggests a degree of closeness with the player that does not exist. It's just kind of creepy. I've learned to look past it and life is much better.

I don't have a hissy fit or give a second thought to someone who has a different opinion than mine on the same player or subject (well ok, I've had some hissy fits). That said, there is one commenter who will argue for the sake of arguing, or to "prove" they know more. We've almost all had interactions with this guy (I think he's a guy). This is just deep insecurity and after a while, it's just easier to Ignore them.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Why not? If Love is good, then it's hats off to Gluten. If he blows then who do we blame?

Good point. If Love sucks we'll all blame Gluten.

 

[AmishMafia]

While I agree with you, this is a forum and if some of the player critiques get personal, get used to it. Commenters are free to like and dislike the player or the player's performance and pretty much for any reason. It's not necessary to agree and it's probably best to leave it behind. Personally, I have enough going on without letting a sports forum occupy time in my head.

As an example, I cringe at posters referring to players by their first names. Many times it's just confusing, and on other occasions it suggests a degree of closeness with the player that does not exist. It's just kind of creepy. I've learned to look past it and life is much better.

I don't have a hissy fit or give a second thought to someone who has a different opinion than mine on the same player or subject (well ok, I've had some hissy fits). That said, there is one commenter who will argue for the sake of arguing, or to "prove" they know more. We've almost all had experience interact with this guy (I think he's a guy). This is just deep insecurity and after a while, it's just easier to Ignore them.

I have forwarded to the Pulitzer folks.

Well stated and something I need to keep in mind as well.