Successful season wo Rodgers

[G0P4ckG0]

For me a successful season is one that I enjoy. In the big scheme of things, the Packers success or failures only affect me as much as I allow them.

I like your answer. Success truly is subjective and mostly everyone has their own unique definition of success. Opinions are what make for great discussions

 

[XPack]

I'm actually excited to see what Bortles can do. 3rd pick in the draft. Had some decent stats in several years. A big guy. If Love should be sitting the bench awhile; I'd like to see what Bortles can do with some good protection and some good running and some good LaFleur game planning. Not saying I'm optimistic. But I am excited about that. Assuming ARod get shuffled off to Denver. Don't really want the Las Vegas QB. jmo He is decent but it would detract from Love's maturing imo.

Hmm, his best season is 10 wins and others average at about 4 or 5. Granted we overall are a better team...but still... anything over 8 would be beyond ordinary.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

Hmm, his best season is 10 wins and others average at about 4 or 5. Granted we overall are a better team...but still... anything over 8 would be beyond ordinary.

*His* best season.....

............please don't forget that there are 52 other players on the active roster, excluding coaches and other team members. Broken record, but modern Packers fans tend to be INFATUATED with one player and their fandom completely clouded by it.

Screw Rodgers. Screw Love. Screw Bortles. Screw MLF. Screw anyone on the team if they are put above anyone else. If you aren't a team player or team fan, get the F out.

*not directed at you personally*

 

[OldSchool101]

I think we can win 5-6 games just running the ball against lesser run D teams and leaning on what I believe will be a better then average TE group in 2021. As long as our D doesn’t regress, I imagine 2-4 additional wins in Loves first starting season, depending (10 ceiling and 6 floor).

That said, I also wouldn’t be surprised if teams eventually committed to stopping our solid Run game and in doing so, got burned by MVS or Davante deep. Love is very crafty at turning broken plays into big gains.

I noticed in film that one of Loves stronger assets was his ability to scramble and throw on the run with velocity (even under pressure) He’s got an exceptional arm and reminds me a little of young Favre (who started with more INT than TD)

Love is just good enough to surprise us and had better than a 2:1 TD /INT ratio in college and actually threw more TD (32) in the 2018 season than Trevor Lawrence or Herbert (Tied for 8th nationally). That isn’t an accident, he had a good supporting cast around him. The 17 INT were partly impacted by a new staff and entirely different team around him once his HC moved to TX.

If he gets his Rhythm he’s a young Favre. Love is also very confident and smart and highly competitive and he’ll excel with an above average supporting cast, which I believe GB has. He’s not Rodgers but he could become formidable in his own right. Love isn’t used to having this much talent around him. With arguably one of the best RB duos in the NFL, a top 10 OL and TE group? I think he’s going to surprise us.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

What say you? If no rodgers at all.. what will be a success forntou?

1 to 4 wins is a success?

5 to 8 is a success?

and so on

Who's the quarter back? When I know that I can answer the question

 

[longtimefan]

Who's the quarter back? When I know that I can answer the question

Love...Whats successful season

Brotles...Whats successful??

Other qb Whats successful?

 

[sschind]

I think we can win 5-6 games just running the ball against lesser run D teams and leaning on what I believe will be a better then average TE group in 2021. As long as our D doesn’t regress, I imagine 2-4 additional wins in Loves first starting season, depending (10 ceiling and 6 floor).

That said, I also wouldn’t be surprised if teams eventually committed to stopping our solid Run game and in doing so, got burned by MVS or Davante deep. Love is very crafty at turning broken plays into big gains.

I noticed in film that one of Loves stronger assets was his ability to scramble and throw on the run with velocity (even under pressure) He’s got an exceptional arm and reminds me a little of young Favre (who started with more INT than TD)

Love is just good enough to surprise us and had better than a 2:1 TD /INT ratio in college and actually threw more TD (32) in the 2018 season than Trevor Lawrence or Herbert (Tied for 8th nationally). That isn’t an accident, he had a good supporting cast around him. The 17 INT were partly impacted by a new staff and entirely different team around him once his HC moved to TX.

If he gets his Rhythm he’s a young Favre. Love is also very confident and smart and highly competitive and he’ll excel with an above average supporting cast, which I believe GB has. He’s not Rodgers but he could become formidable in his own right. Love isn’t used to having this much talent around him. With arguably one of the best RB duos in the NFL, a top 10 OL and TE group? I think he’s going to surprise us.

came close to ending that way too. I kid, I kid...but he did throw a lot of INTs.

Seriously though I think a lot of people are simply assuming Love will suck. They may be basing that on the idea that we can't catch lightning in a bottle three times in a row or they just don't like him or they are Rodgers fans and thought of not having Aaron makes them angry. He may suck or he may actually be good enough to win in this league. I've never seen him play but he obviously had some strengths that made/makes more than a few people think he can be successful. With a solid team behind him who knows?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I will still contend that any team is capable of winning with proper coaching and strategy. That is why I cannot agree that we have no chance without Rodgers and also why there is no guarantee we even make the playoffs WITH Rodgers.

Coaching and strategy only takes you that far in the NFL. A team needs to have a certain talent level to contend for a Super Bowl title and the Packers don't have enough of it without Rodgers.

Personally I would never expect the Packers to win it all. There are simply too many variables involved on our own team let alone 31 other teams all competing for the same goal for that to be a reasonable expectation. Heck, a team can even do everything right but still lose if other team does one thing just a little bit better or they could simply have a bad break and lose.

I agree that expecting the Packers to win the Super Bowl entering a specific season might be unrealistic. But with them having had the most efficient quarterback in NFL history over the past 10 years and being a legit contender every single year it's fair to consider it a disappointment they haven't won at least another one.

I'm actually excited to see what Bortles can do. 3rd pick in the draft. Had some decent stats in several years. A big guy. If Love should be sitting the bench awhile; I'd like to see what Bortles can do with some good protection and some good running and some good LaFleur game planning.

Bortles is 24-49 as a starter in the NFL. Nuff said.

Love isn’t used to having this much talent around him.

On the other side he isn't used to facing opponents featuring that much talent coming out of the Mountain West.

Seriously though I think a lot of people are simply assuming Love will suck.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting Love will suck at the pro level. It's realistic to expect a signifcant drop-off in performance compared to Rodgers though.

 

[gbgary]

if Love is at least competent in his first year i think they can win 8+. if he's better than that...great. it won't be a SB winning season but that wasn't happening anyway. it's a new era. the cap will explode in 23 and getting ahead of that is a priority. massive opportunity to actually have a kickass, complete, roster. they're really not that far off now.

 

[rmontro]

Packers Have Shocking Finish to 2021 Season After Trading Aaron Rodgers in 'Madden' Simulation (popculture.com)

That's hilarious, really. Interesting that in the simulation where the Packers won the Super Bowl, Love was the quarterback. Calling it now: Third straight HOF QB, baby!

 

[OldSchool101]

On the other side he isn't used to facing opponents featuring that much talent coming out of the Mountain West.

I know you say that and we can go back n forth, but in 2018 Utah State (led by QB Jordan Love) tied a ranked team (#21 Boise State) for 1st place in their conference. Utah State was nationally ranked floating between #14-#22 that season.
They finished by outscoring those weak opponents by a points margin of 618-289 or averaging 48pts per game. As a sophomore, the Jordan Love led Offense ranked #2 out of 130 Division 1 football programs. I know you are stuck in the MW thing, however NFL scouts use evaluators to project success. It was the way Utah State handled their business against lower competition.. scoring 50+ points 7 times in the 2018 campaign. That gets the attention of the scouting community real quick.

Further, those naysayers who deflect that success by using his 2019 campaign always seem to conveniently forget that all but 1 other Offensive player was gone in 2019. Thats 90% of his remaining Offense. Not only that, but he had a completely new coaching staff top to bottom.
Can you imagine if an NFL team lost 90% of the Offense one year to the next + took on an entirely different HC and staff on down? I honestly don’t think Aaron Rodgers in his prime could overcome that.

 

[XPack]

*His* best season.....

............please don't forget that there are 52 other players on the active roster, excluding coaches and other team members. Broken record, but modern Packers fans tend to be INFATUATED with one player and their fandom completely clouded by it.

Screw Rodgers. Screw Love. Screw Bortles. Screw MLF. Screw anyone on the team if they are put above anyone else. If you aren't a team player or team fan, get the F out.

*not directed at you personally*

I understand, but again, idealism shouldn't replace reality. (not directed at you too!). It is a fact that most team build around the QB and QB is probably the most important player. Not saying that is the right way, but just that it is the current way. Screw QB is easy to say when in reality teams gamble multiple year picks on a top QB.

Even for us, ARod has been the most significant player who has kept us in the hunt even with crap D and supporting cast in previous years.

 

[OldSchool101]

It is a fact that most team build around the QB and QB is probably the most important player. Not saying that is the right way, but just that it is the current way.

you’re exactly correct. But the most important part of that is getting the correct fit. Obviously, not all O systems require the same style of QB.

Even for us, ARod has been the most significant player who has kept us in the hunt even with crap D and supporting cast in previous years.

A significant reason GB can’t get over the D hump is the lack of proper resources to sustain or even improve that group. Rodgers counting $40mil against the total picture annually is cap strapping the entire team. So much so.. that we are now resorting to pushing monies into future years. Basically he’s unintentionally robbing us of our future, when he wouldn’t even be playing. Has he considered that? He’s now whining that our FO doesn’t care about people! They can treat me like a rat for $40mil annual ! Give me just a 1 year deal

 

[OldSchool101]

Here’s an interesting take. While it’s obviously a year old, it’s entirely relevant. It talks a bit about adapting to a QB who can carry you too a SB even if in unconventional ways in relation to the O system. Rodgers did just that by absolutely walloping this system over Matt’s head as the 2020 MVP and record results. They couldn’t have expected that.

Consider this.. even as league MVP we didn’t make the SB????
What the heck happens if he’s NOT league MVP?

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[Sunshinepacker]

you’re exactly correct. But the most important part of that is getting the correct fit. Obviously, not all O systems require the same style of QB.

A significant reason GB can’t get over the D hump is the lack of proper resources to sustain or even improve that group. Rodgers counting $40mil against the total picture annually is cap strapping the entire team. So much so.. that we are now resorting to pushing monies into future years. Basically he’s unintentionally robbing us of our future, when he wouldn’t even be playing. Has he considered that? He’s now whining that our FO doesn’t care about people! They can treat me like a rat for $40mil annual !

I would add that using decent draft picks on Josh Jackson, Burks, King, Jones, Adams, Biegel, Randall, and Rollins are bigger issues for the defense than Rodgers' salary.

Edit: yes, it's easier to build other positions when the GM doesn't have to spend a lot at one position but that just sort of means the GM has to work harder and better, no?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

massive opportunity to actually have a kickass, complete, roster. they're really not that far off now.

The Packers lack talent at several positions to be considered having a complete roster. Without Rodgers they face a question mark at the most important one as well.

I know you say that and we can go back n forth, but in 2018 Utah State (led by QB Jordan Love) tied a ranked team (#21 Boise State) for 1st place in their conference. Utah State was nationally ranked floating between #14-#22 that season.
They finished by outscoring those weak opponents by a points margin of 618-289 or averaging 48pts per game. As a sophomore, the Jordan Love led Offense ranked #2 out of 130 Division 1 football programs. I know you are stuck in the MW thing, however NFL scouts use evaluators to project success. It was the way Utah State handled their business against lower competition.. scoring 50+ points 7 times in the 2018 campaign. That gets the attention of the scouting community real quick.

One again, the Aggies scored that many points mostly based on facing terrible opponents. Those seven teams they scored 50+ points against were a combined 29-57 while playing in weak conferences as well. Tennessee Tech even managed to finish 1-10 in the FCS!!!

Love struggled against the only Power 5 conference teams he faced, which in my opinion shouldn't be ignored.

A significant reason GB can’t get over the D hump is the lack of proper resources to sustain or even improve that group. Rodgers counting $40mil against the total picture annually is cap strapping the entire team. So much so.. that we are now resorting to pushing monies into future years. Basically he’s unintentionally robbing us of our future, when he wouldn’t even be playing. Has he considered that? He’s now whining that our FO doesn’t care about people! They can treat me like a rat for $40mil annual ! Give me just a 1 year deal

The Packers have used their first selection on a defensive player in nine of the last 10 drafts. In addition they signed the Smiths and Amos to lucrative contracts in free agency since Gutekunst took over. They definitely have spent enough resources on that side of the ball but unfortunately haven't been able to put together an elite defense anyway.

 

[Sanguine camper]

There should be plenty of data to show what happens to the win loss record when a HOF qb leaves. I think in most cases, most teams see drop off 5-7 wins from the previous several years win total.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would add that using decent draft picks on Josh Jackson, Burks, King, Jones, Adams, Biegel, Randall, and Rollins are bigger issues for the defense than Rodgers' salary.

I don’t really like your argument on a topic that pertains to our immediate and near future. Those decisions were largely made by the previous administration, the vast majority which either don’t work here anymore, passed away or retired. It’s unfair to use that to reference this current FO as an evaluation to be project their ability to succeed.

Edit: yes, it's easier to build other positions when the GM doesn't have to spend a lot at one position but that just sort of means the GM has to work harder and better, no?

I don’t care how hard you work or research a commodity.. if your pocket book is empty and you want favorable merchandise, when you show up to and bargain for that merchandise, no matter how smart you are the cashier will still eventually tell you to go away.

In any case, the current FO has done better than
the average team in attaining good valued players (IMO). Their would likely be a marginal difference in getting “better” without having the capital to back it up. I like your idea about working smarter, but I like it better with an extra $37mil annual budget to back me up.

 

[OldSchool101]

Love struggled against the only Power 5 conference teams he faced, which in my opinion shouldn't be ignored.

Against 2018 Michigan St? That a poor evaluation IMO and it is contrary to statements made by both head Coaches of Utah State and Michigan State post game.
You cant offer the 2019 argument as proof ... with a 1st year HC, 1st year DC, 1st year OC and 9 new players on Offense. Nobody is going to perform at a high level in that scenario, not even Tom Brady at his peak.

The reality is, Love actually played well against a power 5 team as Michigan State finished #11 . Ironically, I saw that they likely would’ve cracked the top 10 had Utah State not spoiled their ranking by nearly beating them in their house. It was a concern at that time because it would’ve likely knocked them out of a Bowl game. Love took the lead away several times all the way deep into quarter 4. Love had a pass tipped and INT on their final drive in the 4th quarter just across midfield. The score was 31-38 and Coach Matt Wells said after the game that they would’ve went for 2 on that last drive for the Win, because he believed they had the upper hand offensively. He was quoted as saying that after that game that he knew immediately he had a very good team and they could hold their heads high.

Michigan State (Power 5) had not lost a Home Opener in 20 years. Think about that. They came very close to losing that game to a little itty bitty MWC (other 5) Conference and even Dave Warner OC for Michigan St (due to being very close to losing) said they’d better step it up in that conference or they’d be in trouble. They would learn as the season progressed that they actually weren’t a bad team, they just played a very good team led by Love.
BTW, Utah State was playing on the road, week 1. I believe that is a significant party of why the GBP went after Love aggressively. Our FO knew all along that Love has ability, that was never in question, as much as he needs the other ingredient.. stability.

Love needs live game experience soon, that way they can clean up his weaknesses.. (consistency in decisioning reads etc..). With a tweaking here and a tweak there.. This kid has a very good chance at becoming successful. He ain’t no Brett Hundley

 

[OldSchool101]

The Packers have used their first selection on a defensive player in nine of the last 10 drafts. In addition they signed the Smiths and Amos to lucrative contracts in free agency since Gutekunst took over. They definitely have spent enough resources on that side of the ball but unfortunately haven't been able to put together an elite defense anyway.

Sorry ahead of time if it feels like I’m picking at you (that’s a prelude to I’m going to pick more )

You are 100% correct on the draft resources spent, but we’ve also allowed players to walk over dollars$ so it’s an offset there that has to be accounted for.

Also, when we were talking resources, we were primarily on the conversation referring to $$$.. not draft picks. We missed on guys like Fuller and Watt over $$. Those guys are high impact and we needed resources in $$ as a few extra $Mil$/season goes a long ways in recruiting them and locks them down
Look at the success we’ve had with Reggie, Woodson, Peppers.
Those guys are known game changers and we need to go after those more than one time per decade

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Against 2018 Michigan St? That a poor evaluation IMO and it is contrary to statements made by both head Coaches of Utah State and Michigan State post game.
You cant offer the 2019 argument as proof ... with a 1st year HC, 1st year DC, 1st year OC and 9 new players on Offense. Nobody is going to perform at a high level in that scenario, not even Tom Brady at his peak.

So what you want to tell me is that as long Love performed at a high level it should be considered but his poor outing should be ignored???

The reality is, Love actually played well against a power 5 team as Michigan State finished #11 . Ironically, I saw that they likely would’ve cracked the top 10 had Utah State not spoiled their ranking by nearly beating them in their house.[/quote|

Michigan State entered the 2018 season ranked 11th but finished it unranked after only posting a 7-6 record.

Also, when we were talking resources, we were primarily on the conversation referring to $$$.. not draft picks.

The Packers were among the league leaders in cap space spent on defense during several years with Thompson being their general manager. The unit has been mediocre at best for long stretches because the team has spent resources on the wrong players not because they didn't spent enough.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Love...Whats successful season

Brotles...Whats successful??

Other qb Whats successful?

My point is I can't answer this until I know who the starter is gonna be Week 1. We could be an 8 win team or a 0 win team depending on that.

 

[OldSchool101]

So what you want to tell me is that as long Love performed at a high level it should be considered but his poor outing should be ignored???

No. Provided you’re not using a 2019 completely revamped roster and all brand new coaching staff and system. Performances must be evaluated in context.
Which poor outing are you referring if not 2019?
The only one I saw was 2018 Michigan St?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

No. Provided you’re not using a 2019 completely revamped roster and all brand new coaching staff and system. Performances must be evaluated in context.
Which poor outing are you referring if not 2019?
The only one I saw was 2018 Michigan St?

In my opinion a revamped roster and new coaching staff doesn't explain Love throwing more interceptions than any other quarterback in the FCS though.

I'm talking about the game vs. Michigan State, the only decent team Utah State faced all season in 2018.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

If he doesn`t want to be here anymore, he`s of no use to us either way. Just move on.