Packers trade Damarious Randall to Browns

[bigbubbatd]

I thought we just swapped 4's and 5's, so we moved up in 4 and 5 and they move back. but i haven't seen anything official

That seems right according to this - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...fifth-rounds-of-draft-in-kizer-randall-trade/

I am interested to see what picks the Packers swapped. If they swapped 4.14 and 5.13 for the 4.1 and 5.1 that is fine. If they swapped the 4.33 and 5.37 for the 4.1 and 5.1 that would pretty solid value for a guy like Randall. This trade is very much dependent on what the packers do at cb now. I still wish they could have got a true position of need for randall - te or guard but maybe his value is that low. Probably can get a solid guard prospect with the better value in pick

4.1 to 4.14 difference is valued at the 140th pick which is an early 5th
5.1 to 5.13 difference is valued at the the 213th pick which is a 6th round comp pick

So gaining an early 5th and late 6th

4.1 to 4.33 difference is valued at the 117th pick which is a mid 4th
5.1 to 5.37 difference is valued at the 186th pick which is a mid 6th

So gaining a mid 4th and mid 6th

 

[GleefulGary]

Wow. Pretty surprised by this.

With some reports coming out, clear that Randall was more of a locker room issue than we realized. When a group of veterans tells McCarthy to cut him, that speaks a lot. Pretty obvious we weren't going to re-sign him, so they traded him for a backup QB with loads of potential that the Packers like. We also move up 24 total slots. So that's nice.

Time will tell how this works, but if you wanted confirmation we're signing a FA CB...here ya go!

 

[thisisnate]

The silver lining with the trade is that we are all but certain to aggressively address the position now.

never good to be in a position where you pretty much have to find a starter at a position in FA, but i appreciate your optimism

 

[Bagadeez04]

If Kizer was closer to being ready to assume the backup role I'd be on board, I don't see what we have to gain from taking on a project at quarterback.

Who knows, maybe in five years it looks like a good move, not seeing it now though.

 

[easyk83]

If Kizer was closer to being ready to assume the backup role I'd be on board, I don't see what we have to gain from taking on a project at quarterback.

Who knows, maybe in five years it looks like a good move, not seeing it now though.

If he develops successfully he'll be gone by then. If we're lucky he develops well and we can trade him for... something.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Reasons I like the trade
- Kizer can be our backup. The Browns were a disaster. I think he has a chance to develop into an ok qb here
- I like the pick swaps. Nice value for a guy like Randall who didnt have much value
- I think even those who rated Randall as an average cb overrated him. He looked better because toward the end of the year we had no one. He was soft, small, and not super fast. Very replaceable

Reasons i dont like the trade
-Back up qb wasnt the position I would have targeted. TE or guard or even slot wr would have made way more sense
-CB depth was already bad. Even though I didnt like Randall he would have been fine depth

 

[GleefulGary]

If Kizer was closer to being ready to assume the backup role I'd be on board, I don't see what we have to gain from taking on a project at quarterback.

Who knows, maybe in five years it looks like a good move, not seeing it now though.

Well...he's already better than Hundley.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well...he's already better than Hundley.

The numbers from last season don't support that statement by any means.

 

[GleefulGary]

The numbers from last season don't support that statement by any means.

You have to look at more than numbers. Context is needed.

1) He was a rookie that came out of college too early, and flat out wasn't ready.
2) His coach was Hue Jackson. Hue Jackson is awful.
3) He was pretty much always playing from behind, and didn't exactly have a lot of offensive options. Jordy and Cobb aren't what they used to be, but at least they're veterans who know what they're doing.
4) McCarthy coddled Hundley in regards to play calling, Hue Jackson...he did not. He literally let Kizer rip it up.

Context, as always, is important. PFF doesn't always know.

 

[sschind]

Don't know if it's been posted but we got Deshon Kizer, a guy who I believe would've been a 2nd rounder for us in 2017. Yes he didn't do hardly anything in Cleveland but he didn't have McCarthy. McCarthy is the QB guru. He's good insurance I think by mid-season if Aaron ends up on the IR a 4th time. Definite upgrade from Hundley from what I saw of both last year and Kizer in college at ND. This definitely changes every mock draft I believe, and it changes Green Bay's draft board as well. Good mood by Guttenkunst.

He sure gurued the hell out of Hundley didn't he. Still, McCarthy aside I agree that Kizer is an upgrade over Hundley. I see potential for improvement, maybe a lot of improvement from Kizer. I'm not sure Hundley had that in him. We have Kizer for 3 more years on a rookie deal. By that time Rodgers cap hit will be about a gajillion dollars and Kizer might be the only other player we can afford. Maybe we can convert him to corner.

 

[Lawdog]

I have to trust there is an offseason plan and this was phase one. I don't expect this to be the last trade. Excited to see the reshaping of this roster.

 

[sschind]

Initially it sounds like a poor deal. There’s more than meets the eye here. As I said a few days ago, Cleveland has been a loyal trade partner (think big brother alliance for a minute) and I expected them to let us trade up later rounds, that part was not a surprise. If you’re going to partner, this is the team you want to shack up with right now. They own this draft.

We also might not be done trading with them, this could be a precursor to more trades both before, during or after the draft. We don’t know what’s been talked about behind closed doors.
Im sniffing and something don’t smell right. Were not getting the whole story, maybe on purpose we’re being spoon fed.

Maybe John Dorsey is secretly the new Packers GM after all and we will be getting the #1 and #4 picks for Nelson, Cobb and Matthews next.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You have to look at more than numbers. Context is needed.

1) He was a rookie that came out of college too early, and flat out wasn't ready.
2) His coach was Hue Jackson. Hue Jackson is awful.
3) He was pretty much always playing from behind, and didn't exactly have a lot of offensive options. Jordy and Cobb aren't what they used to be, but at least they're veterans who know what they're doing.
4) McCarthy coddled Hundley in regards to play calling, Hue Jackson...he did not. He literally let Kizer rip it up.

Context, as always, is important. PFF doesn't always know.

You bring up some valid points but as of right now it's just a random guess on your part that Kizer is any better than Hundley.

By that time Rodgers cap hit will be about a gajillion dollars and Kizer might be the only other player we can afford.

The Packers will make sure they can afford Rodgers' cap hit going forward. It's the rest of the roster you should be worried about.

 

[sschind]

I wasn't analyzing the move itself, that already has been hashed and rehashed here in 7 pages of posts. Plus, nobody really knows how this move will play out over time. All I am saying is this isn't a TT like move, getting rid of 2 of "his own", so the underlying motivation of a move like this could be BG trying to do things his way.

I'm not sure if this qualifies as the big move I speculated about in the Does anyone think Gute will pull off a big trade? thread, but it does at least have undertones of BG making a statement. If you don't think Gute has more up his sleeve to address the loss of Randall you may be in for the big shocker I was talking about (Sherman perhaps, or one of the other top corners) As Edge said, "This is about as un-Thompson as you can get."

Whether this was the big move or it is just paving the way for the big move (my thinking) Gute will put his stamp on this team real quick. The good news is that for a GM wanting to put his mark on a team it helps to have other GMs wanting to do the same thing and it seems like that may be the case in the league; at least for now anyway. I don't recall this level of trading before with so many teams going nutso.

 

[GleefulGary]

You bring up some valid points but as of right now it's just a random guess on your part that Kizer is any better than Hundley.

It's not a random guess. It's called an evaluation.

And guess what? Our GM agrees with me.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's not a random guess. It's called an evaluation.

And guess what? Our GM agrees with me.

You don't have any facts supporting your claim that Kizer is any better than Hundley therefore it's a guess on your part.

The Packers haven't released or traded Hundley therefore I expect him and Kizer to battle for the backup spot all offseason long. That doesn't mean that Gutekunst considers Kizer an upgrade over Hundley but simply that he brought in competition for the roster spot.

 

[Dantés]

This occurred to me this morning and I found it kind of funny.

One of the biggest criticisms of the Packers is that they don’t operate enough like the Patriots.

The Patriots are known for being willing traders, often move on from players early if they aren’t in their long term plans, often ship out players who aren’t assignment sound, and place a premium of QB’s behind Brady.

This move checks all of those boxes. Packer fans by and large seem to be ticked. Hmmm.

 

[GleefulGary]

You don't have any facts supporting your claim that Kizer is any better than Hundley therefore it's a guess on your part.

The Packers haven't released or traded Hundley therefore I expect him and Kizer to battle for the backup spot all offseason long. That doesn't mean that Gutekunst considers Kizer an upgrade over Hundley but simply that he brought in competition for the roster spot.

Do you really think that we traded away a starting CB for a guy that they don't think is better than Hundley? Really?? I'm sure there will be a competition bc cutting Hundley only saves us $700k and we need training camp arms, but I am 100% certain that Kizer will win that "competition" because he is the better QB.

 

[GleefulGary]

This occurred to me this morning and I found it kind of funny.

One of the biggest criticisms of the Packers is that they don’t operate enough like the Patriots.

The Patriots are known for being willing traders, often move on from players early if they aren’t in their long term plans, often ship out players who aren’t assignment sound, and place a premium of QB’s behind Brady.

This move checks all of those boxes. Packer fans by and large seem to be ticked. Hmmm.

Belicheck is a master of realizing that when you're contending, rounds 5-7 essentially don't matter.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If this trade pans out the way some are reporting it, I think the real hidden value will be the 2 move ups in draft picks. Using one of the draft value charts, that has a value of around 35 points, which is the equivalent of an early 5th round pick. Having the first pick in any round is a nice place to be, but especially that 4th rounder, since it is the start of day 3. With as many picks as the Packers have, I expect them to be trading some of them in order to move up or maybe in a player trade. Gute just made his draft pick arsenal more valuable.

 

[Raptorman]

The numbers from last season don't support that statement by any means.

Quick, name the top WR on the Browns. Yeah, I can't either.

 

[Dantés]

You don't have any facts supporting your claim that Kizer is any better than Hundley therefore it's a guess on your part.

The Packers haven't released or traded Hundley therefore I expect him and Kizer to battle for the backup spot all offseason long. That doesn't mean that Gutekunst considers Kizer an upgrade over Hundley but simply that he brought in competition for the roster spot.

Of course it’s guesswork, but it isn’t random.

Kizer was evaluated as a borderline 1st/2nd round prospect with starting level talent. Hundley was an athletic project that went in the fifth round. They played comparably last year, but Hundley was much deeper in the system on a much better team. Kizer was a rookie who the evaluators actually said wouldn’t be ready to start.

Take this for example. Kevin King struggled as a rookie. I could probably find some mid round pick in his third season who played comparably. And yet if I created a poll between King and said player regarding who people expect to be better in the future, King would win in a land slide. It wouldn’t just be a pick ‘em.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Do you really think that we traded away a starting CB for a guy that they don't think is better than Hundley? Really?? I'm sure there will be a competition bc cutting Hundley only saves us $700k and we need training camp arms, but I am 100% certain that Kizer will win that "competition" because he is the better QB.

I think we traded a guy the new regime does not view as a starter for a reasonably priced back up they hope they can develop

 

[HardRightEdge]

Quick, name the top WR on the Browns. Yeah, I can't either.

Josh Gordon.

 

[gbgary]

I hope we stay at 14 and get an impact player. There should be one available.

i hope we move up.