Nfcg duds and studs

[pfcmsh]

It wasn’t Rodgers who was awful. It was the defense that was awful. Our defense is still bad. Just not AS bad... and only because of the free agent signings. Yes, the turnovers were pretty much the difference, but they could have been overcome if the defense had been able to get more than just a few stops in this game. How can a defense not stop the run when they KNOW they are going to run on virtually every snap?

Roger's looked rattled out there. He held the ball too long because the coverage was great. He has recovered from many injuries including both clavicles. Once injured, your healing doesnt restore limbs, bones to a pre-injury state. 2 broken clavicles, the last was his throwing arm requiring 13 screws to repair has to affect certain passing arm motion and range. He has lost mobility too. He did the best he could given the pass rush. I do not feel turnovers were the difference. 49ers were not a good match up for us. They'd have run the ball down our throats even if we had zero turnovers.

 

[Do7]

Again I'm fine with laying SOME of the blame at Rodgers' feet, but let's not forget the fact that our defense made a man look like the second coming of Erik ****erson, and Garoppolo threw for around 80 yards in order to beat us.

 

[RepStar15]

San Fran was the better team and a matchup nightmare for us. We did not commit to stopping the run.

Overall, it was a fun season. Watching this team put out a product that was new and much improved from the last few seasons was a nice change. I expect the offseason to consist of a new stud WR and ILB.

There is a future for this team, and I’m excited to be in this position.

 

[elcid]

I don't mind people blaming this on Rodgers as he does deserve a fair share of the blame for how this game went, but to everyone questioning Rodgers ability, let alone his passion for the game, please stop.

As painful as this lost was need I remind some of you that the last two years we were missing out on the playoffs altogether and once again when Rodgers was healthy we made it back to the NFC Championship just like last time. Last year we were 6-9-1, and this year we more than doubled our wins with a rookie head coach, a new system, and with subpar talent. Rodgers had a lot of things working against him this season and yet he did pretty decent. Is it the "God mode" we've been accustomed to? Hell no, but just comes to show you how spoiled we are as a fanbase if we expect Rodgers to keep playing at that high of a level. It's just not realistic, especially for a man his age.
What's funny is that a large handful of you didn't expect us to make it this far, so this is an aberration. Yes we lost again, but to those who expected us to have a mediocre season and miss the post season, you guys don't get to complain, or shouldn't, especially considering we've passed expectations.

He'll have flashes and I think he has one more MVP season in him, but to for you guys to question his heart, I say get over yourselves. A part of me wishes Rodgers would retire simply because of how ungrateful some of you guys are. I get he didn't play well tonight, and again it's fine to criticize him on his performance for today as he deserves a fair share of the blame, but some of you guys are unbelievable.

I was hoping for but didn't count on the playoffs this season so personally I am very happy with how the season went. We have bounced back great after 2 down years, and are in prime position to become a powerhouse in the 2020 season. However I definitely question AR's ability and leadership at this point. For all he has accomplished over the years, he has done it with a great Oline and great receivers and I am willing to chalk up a lot of his success to these factors. But i definitely do not question his desire or passion, not at all. It's chip-on-his-shoulder Aaron of all people.

It is ok, but people should maintain some perspective when they do. like that botched snap. Linsley put it on his inner thigh. Looked to be very much like a center missing a snap, but according to some, our QB doesn't care anymore and it was his fault.

Every short pass was wrong because the 9ers have too fast of a defense to gain any yards and every long pass was a mistake because Rodgers isn't accurate anymore and he holds the ball too long. I'm sorry, but the pass to Graham was a good pass. Mahomes will put one off the defenders earhole and it won't get knocked away and everyone will salivate all over him. His receivers dive and fall and make great plays all over the field and he's the most accurate thing ever. Meanwhile it's nice to have a ILB that can run with a TE and knock it down, or it sucks to have TE that can't run away from an ILB, either way we lose the equation and it's Rodger's fault around here.

So if you want to put that first fumble on Rodgers when he ran out from pressure and then got it stripped as he went down, fine. He should have secured it better. He's been fumbling more than he used to. It needs to change. But it's getting to be that every play that doesn't work, Rodgers was at fault around here. Most QB's lose the battle when you leave a free rusher unfettered right up the middle on a 3rd and long.

What do you want? a QB that looks at the rush every play? Guaranteed you lose every offensive snap if you have that guy behind center. Your guard should be able to at least stand in the way of a DB rushing up the middle and give you 2 seconds to throw. But that's probably just me defending Rodgers. I should be more realistic in my expectations.

Rodgers isn't perfect, but every play isn't his fault either.

I don't fault Rodgers for the botched snap, or even Corey. It's just unlucky, plain and simple. But yes, Aaron has been worse at sniffing out and eluding pressure. He has also become way more hesitant to throw into tight windows. This year wasn't as easy as years prior for him when he had a solid stable of receivers. But every year it's the same; we are eliminated prior to the big game and it's due to the Packers failing Aaron in one way or another. His "unparalleled talent" is wasted duo to our team lacking a solid group of (take your pick: run defense, next year its pass defense, a stable running game, bad coaching, a shaky oline, or a subpar group of wide receivers). ANYTHING but Rodgers.

Look, I get that our receivers are inadequate, like reaaally inadequate. Or that our defense isn't top 3 or top 5. But chances of having a top 3, or even a top 5 defense in one QB's career are slim, ESPECIALLY when you pay said QB big, big bucks. And even then it would be hard to keep the Niners under 20 points, a team which scored 30 points per game on average. I am very happy with AR as our QB as I do not know how it is to support a team without a franchise QB and all I have known is Rodgers, but i'll take your guys' words for it (plus what I've seen on teams like the Bengals, Jaguars or Browns) that it stinks.

None of this is an emotional rant after yesterday's loss. When we finally faced arguably the best coached, most complete and most talented team in the league, of course we failed to keep up with them, as one would expect. I was prepared for a loss, be it a brutal one. But to chalk this loss mostly up to our D when our D, not our O, has kept us in most games this season seems very wrong to me. The failure to acknowledge that our problem at this point first and foremost is (passing) offense is ignorant imho.

I am willing to see how Aaron performs after attracting some new pass catchers before I would call him overrated. But at some point you should judge the QB's who are in the GOAT conversation by their crunch time performances, and while it has been good more often than not, it's not been as good as his status of "greatest QB talent ever" would suggest.

 

[Do7]

I was hoping for but didn't count on the playoffs this season so personally I am very happy with how the season went. We have bounced back great after 2 down years, and are in prime position to become a powerhouse in the 2020 season. However I definitely question AR's ability and leadership at this point. For all he has accomplished over the years, he has done it with a great Oline and great receivers and I am willing to chalk up a lot of his success to these factors. But i definitely do not question his desire or passion, not at all. It's chip-on-his-shoulder Aaron of all people.


I don't fault Rodgers for the botched snap, or even Corey. It's just unlucky, plain and simple. But yes, Aaron has been worse at sniffing out and eluding pressure. He has also become way more hesitant to throw into tight windows. This year wasn't as easy as years prior for him when he had a solid stable of receivers. But every year it's the same; we are eliminated prior to the big game and it's due to the Packers failing Aaron in one way or another. His "unparalleled talent" is wasted duo to our team lacking a solid group of (take your pick: run defense, next year its pass defense, a stable running game, bad coaching, a shaky oline, or a subpar group of wide receivers). ANYTHING but Rodgers.

Look, I get that our receivers are inadequate, like reaaally inadequate. Or that our defense isn't top 3 or top 5. But chances of having a top 3, or even a top 5 defense in one QB's career are slim, ESPECIALLY when you pay said QB big, big bucks. And even then it would be hard to keep the Niners under 20 points, a team which scored 30 points per game on average. I am very happy with AR as our QB as I do not know how it is to support a team without a franchise QB and all I have known is Rodgers, but i'll take your guys' words for it (plus what I've seen on teams like the Bengals, Jaguars or Browns) that it stinks.

None of this is an emotional rant after yesterday's loss. When we finally faced arguably the best coached, most complete and most talented team in the league, of course we failed to keep up with them, as one would expect. I was prepared for a loss, be it a brutal one. But to chalk this loss mostly up to our D when our D, not our O, has kept us in most games this season seems very wrong to me. The failure to acknowledge that our problem at this point first and foremost is (passing) offense is ignorant imho.

I am willing to see how Aaron performs after attracting some new pass catchers before I would call him overrated. But at some point you should judge the QB's who are in the GOAT conversation by their crunch time performances, and while it has been good more often than not, it's not been as good as his status of "greatest QB talent ever" would suggest.

Rodgers' leadership is STILL being questioned? Especially after this season? Enlighten me as to why that is still the case?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I wonder if Mostert topped Kaepernick's 170 yards (or whatever the exact number was) before contact in the 2012 season playoff game. Maybe Mostert + Samuel topped that number. A self-driving truck with defective software could have found those holes.

I wonder when was the last time a team threw only 1 pass per 4.625 points scored. 1970s?

The Packers have certainly found some unique ways to lose playoff games since 2010.

Anyway, this team went farther that I expected, with 2020 being their prime window. 2 months to free agency, 3 months to the draft. Onward and upward.

 

[elcid]

Rodgers' leadership is STILL being questioned? Especially after this season? Enlighten me as to why that is still the case?

We have had this discussion before. Aaron seems to deflect blame whenever things are going completely wrong (eyerolling, hands in the air). His body language speaks for itself. I concede that it has been less common/apparent this season. But then again, we have been mostly winning this season. And yes, that does not necessarily mean that he is a bad leader. I could be completely wrong. Just my observations over the past seasons (and somewhat confirmed by media stories of last season - Sure, I believe these were somewhat exaggerated. But I also believe that where there is smoke there is fire).

I would like to counter the question though. What makes you convinced that he is a good leader? How come his leadership should not be questioned after this particular season? Its great that he takes responsibility for his own failures in post-match pressers but at that point the victory (and hence stress) has already evaporated. Show me one clip of Aaron rallying the troops on the sideline when the Packers are behind. Or him having a productive sideline exchange with one of his receivers, in which it is clear that he is offering constructive feedback. Just one. I've personally never seen footage suggesting he does these kind of things.

That does not necessarily make him a bad leader. But definitely not a good one. A trait you do wish your oldest and arguably most talented player to have (especially when he is your QB).

 

[HardRightEdge]

Rodgers' leadership is STILL being questioned? Especially after this season? Enlighten me as to why that is still the case?

After the defense getting beat down historically by a ground game, with the opposing QB just handing the ball off all day, you're not going to convince anybody who put Rodgers on the dud list.

 

[XPack]

We have had this discussion before. Aaron seems to deflect blame whenever things are going completely wrong (eyerolling, hands in the air). His body language speaks for itself. I concede that it has been less common/apparent this season. But then again, we have been mostly winning this season. And yes, that does not necessarily mean that he is a bad leader. I could be completely wrong. Just my observations over the past seasons (and somewhat confirmed by media stories of last season - Sure, I believe these were somewhat exaggerated. But I also believe that where there is smoke there is fire).

I would like to counter the question though. What makes you convinced that he is a good leader? How come his leadership should not be questioned after this particular season? Its great that he takes responsibility for his own failures in post-match pressers but at that point the victory (and hence stress) has already evaporated. Show me one clip of Aaron rallying the troops on the sideline when the Packers are behind. Or him having a productive sideline exchange with one of his receivers, in which it is clear that he is offering constructive feedback. Just one. I've personally never seen footage suggesting he does these kind of things.

That does not necessarily make him a bad leader. But definitely not a good one. A trait you do wish your oldest and arguably most talented player to have (especially when he is your QB).

Much ado about nothing. He's well respected by rest of team. And I always see him accept he had a bad game. All this body language/eye rolling accusations are just people reading too much into nothing. Everybody is frustrated after a loss and being put to question immediately after a tough loss ain't easy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

OK....had to laugh at this....well done whoever made it!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[HardRightEdge]

We have had this discussion before. Aaron seems to deflect blame whenever things are going completely wrong (eyerolling, hands in the air). His body language speaks for itself.

Well, you have to subtract the ones that are self-directed. Then there are the ones that are generalized disgust, pending that look at the replay board. As for the rest, did you happen to see Brady working over Harry a couple of times in that playoff loss? Receivers sometimes run bad routes. It's a "do your job" kind of thing.

 

[elcid]

Much ado about nothing. He's well respected by rest of team. And I always see him accept he had a bad game. All this body language/eye rolling accusations are just people reading too much into nothing. Everybody is frustrated after a loss and being put to question immediately after a tough loss ain't easy.

Im not going to pretend like that's the reason we lost, not one bit. @Do7 did ask me to explain why I question his leadership, so I did. And like I said, my comments were more in regard to Aaron's ability to keep his teammates motivated during matches, not his demeanor before or after the game. Also, the body language/eye rolling wasn't particularly noteworthy yesterday. So in no regards were my comments specifically about yesterday.

 

[elcid]

Well, you have to subtract the ones that are self-directed. Then there are the ones that are generalized disgust, pending that look at the replay board. As for the rest, did you happen to see Brady working over Harry a couple of times in that playoff loss? Receivers sometimes run bad routes. Its a "do your job" kind of thing.

Fair point. I might be too harsh on the AR's body language thing. You could indeed have a tougher QB (TB, Big Ben). Still, I'd love to see Aaron try to motivate the troops. Go Remember the Titans or Coach Carter on them. Russell Wilson being the best example of one of the greatest talents and motivators to ever play the game.

Again a disclaimer, I was asked to explain why I (and probably some other fans) do not have this unwavering faith in the leadership qualities of AR so I did. In no way was this the reason we lost yesterday and of all the deficiencies our team has this is definitely one of the most minor.

 

[Mondio]

That's not Rodger's style, he shouldn't try to adopt it. I don't think i've ever seen the offense quit. I don't care how he leads his troops. Even when they're doing everything wrong, they get back up and try to do better. if that team quit 1/16th as easily as many fans do around here that game would have been over halfway thru the first quarter, yet they played on.

 

[PackAttack12]

Wasn't great, are you actually serious mate? The different lenses through which we look to our offense (or I should say, Rodgers' team) and defense is LUDICROUS. It really never can be Rodgers and our (passing) offense right? Come on dude, just like you can say that if our D could get a few stops we would still be in the game, you can say the same thing about the Packers O scoring some points. Instead they couldn't even gain yardage consistently. Just like our defense fails to show up in the big games (nfc championship games), so has our O for the last 3 times. Plus our defense was on the field a lot of the time, while often also having to defend a very short field.

The units were both trash and this loss is as much on the offense as it is on the defense.

Did you miss the part where I said everyone was awful in the first half? Keep reading what you want to read.

 

[Do7]

We have had this discussion before. Aaron seems to deflect blame whenever things are going completely wrong (eyerolling, hands in the air). His body language speaks for itself. I concede that it has been less common/apparent this season. But then again, we have been mostly winning this season. And yes, that does not necessarily mean that he is a bad leader. I could be completely wrong. Just my observations over the past seasons (and somewhat confirmed by media stories of last season - Sure, I believe these were somewhat exaggerated. But I also believe that where there is smoke there is fire).

I would like to counter the question though. What makes you convinced that he is a good leader? How come his leadership should not be questioned after this particular season? Its great that he takes responsibility for his own failures in post-match pressers but at that point the victory (and hence stress) has already evaporated. Show me one clip of Aaron rallying the troops on the sideline when the Packers are behind. Or him having a productive sideline exchange with one of his receivers, in which it is clear that he is offering constructive feedback. Just one. I've personally never seen footage suggesting he does these kind of things.

That does not necessarily make him a bad leader. But definitely not a good one. A trait you do wish your oldest and arguably most talented player to have (especially when he is your QB).

Ok I call ********. Name a time when Rodgers has deflected blame to someone else when things go completely wrong? Don't give me this body language bs, because all the greats have expressed frustration in some form or fashion, especially when receivers don't do their job correctly, or when things aren't going the way they would've liked. This whole body language is EXTREMELY exaggerated.

So your definition of a leader is someone who has to go to the sideline and have exchanges with his teammates in order to fire them up? Gimme a break dude. If that's your definition then there are a lot of people in the league that are not good leader, including Brees, who I deem as the best leader for the QB position. I've never seen Brees do that. Rodgers isn't a raw raw person, nor should he have to be, he's the one that leads by example. Always have, always will. He holds people accountable for doing their job, just like he holds himself to that same accountability. Will he show signs of frustrations at times? Sure, but then again EVERY QB has, so how come Rodgers is getting flak?

It's fine if Rodgers' style of leadership isn't your cup of tea, but to question his leadership is silly especially when most times than not we are winning. If his leadership is not as great as you make it then tell me a time when you have seen any of his teammates quit on him. Because I sure as hell can't recall a time.

 

[Do7]

After the defense getting beat down historically by a ground game, with the opposing QB just handing the ball off all day, you're not going to convince anybody who put Rodgers on the dud list.

I mean I considered Rodgers as a dud, but I'm not questioning the dude's leadership. Let alone his heart. He had a bad game, it's unfortunate but it happens.

 

[PackAttack12]

The defense made it such that we would have to win a shootout against the #1 defense in the NFL. I’ll say it a million times until I am blue in the face, Rodgers and the offense wasn’t very good for much of the first half. Even when we moved the ball down the field, we shot ourselves in the foot. Turnovers, penalties, etc.

But we were never...NEVER going to win a shootout against this defense.

We were drawing dead. But just like it’s been for the entire history of the league, defenses keep you in football games to where offenses don’t have to be perfect. That’s the point. A couple of mistakes and boom you’re down three scores.

Hold a team to a respectable number and it gives you a fighting chance.

 

[XPack]

Im not going to pretend like that's the reason we lost, not one bit. @Do7 did ask me to explain why I question his leadership, so I did. And like I said, my comments were more in regard to Aaron's ability to keep his teammates motivated during matches, not his demeanor before or after the game. Also, the body language/eye rolling wasn't particularly noteworthy yesterday. So in no regards were my comments specifically about yesterday.

I agree with your underlying view (just not the AR part)...we do have a problem with mental fortitude during games which go against us. It goes more deeper than the need for pick me up sideline pep talks, but the mentality of the team that ideally should be instilled by the coach.

 

[elcid]

Did you miss the part where I said everyone was awful in the first half? Keep reading what you want to read.

My apologies, believe it or not but I actually read over your first post.

Ok I call ********. Name a time when Rodgers has deflected blame to someone else when things go completely wrong? Don't give me this body language bs, because all the greats have expressed frustration in some form or fashion, especially when receivers don't do their job correctly, or when things aren't going the way they would've liked. This whole body language is EXTREMELY exaggerated.

So your definition of a leader is someone who has to go to the sideline and have exchanges with his teammates in order to fire them up? Gimme a break dude. If that's your definition then there are a lot of people in the league that are not good leader, including Brees, who I deem as the best leader for the QB position. I've never seen Brees do that. Rodgers isn't a raw raw person, nor should he have to be, he's the one that leads by example. Always have, always will. He holds people accountable for doing their job, just like he holds himself to that same accountability. Will he show signs of frustrations at times? Sure, but then again EVERY QB has, so how come Rodgers is getting flak?

I've seen Brees do this. Not that it matters, my point is that AR is terribly lacking in this department, one which I hold in high regard to leadership. Others (including you) don't. That is fine, to each their own. We don't have to agree on how good a leader Aaron is. Like I said, this is an inferior point and one that is not the reason for us not reaching the SB. And you are right, a lot of people in the world aren't good leaders. Even people who are in positions where they should lead.

It's fine if Rodgers' style of leadership isn't your cup of tea, but to question his leadership is silly especially when most times than not we are winning. If his leadership is not as great as you make it then tell me a time when you have seen any of his teammates quit on him. Because I sure as hell can't recall a time.

Explain to me how wins and AR's teammates not quitting on him equates to him being a good leader? These variables are probably better estimators of overall team talent and the tolerability of AR's behavior. He would have to be an absolute ******* in order for his teammates to quit on him during games.

I mean I considered Rodgers as a dud, but I'm not questioning the dude's leadership. Let alone his heart. He had a bad game, it's unfortunate but it happens.

I'm not questioning his heart or desire.

EDIT: Oh and btw @Do7, AR does not play as great as he used to do. AR is probably adequate to pretty good (at best) right now, a C+ to B-. Wouldn't call that leading by example anymore. So if he is not leading through his excellence anymore, than how is he leading?

 

[LetzBreel]

I don't mind people blaming this on Rodgers as he does deserve a fair share of the blame for how this game went, but to everyone questioning Rodgers ability, let alone his passion for the game, please stop.

As painful as this lost was need I remind some of you that the last two years we were missing out on the playoffs altogether and once again when Rodgers was healthy we made it back to the NFC Championship just like last time. Last year we were 6-9-1, and this year we more than doubled our wins with a rookie head coach, a new system, and with subpar talent. Rodgers had a lot of things working against him this season and yet he did pretty decent. Is it the "God mode" we've been accustomed to? Hell no, but just comes to show you how spoiled we are as a fanbase if we expect Rodgers to keep playing at that high of a level. It's just not realistic, especially for a man his age.
What's funny is that a large handful of you didn't expect us to make it this far, so this is an aberration. Yes we lost again, but to those who expected us to have a mediocre season and miss the post season, you guys don't get to complain, or shouldn't, especially considering we've passed expectations.

He'll have flashes and I think he has one more MVP season in him, but to for you guys to question his heart, I say get over yourselves. A part of me wishes Rodgers would retire simply because of how ungrateful some of you guys are. I get he didn't play well tonight, and again it's fine to criticize him on his performance for today as he deserves a fair share of the blame, but some of you guys are unbelievable.

Can you honestly say that Aaron Rodgers is playing and acting the way he always has? I just don't see it. I see a guy that seems conflicted with what and where he wants to be. I really could see him calling a news conference and saying he is done. He is one person that cannot hide his feelings. They are written all over his face. So yes, I do question his passion. I thought that's what this forum was for - opinions.

 

[elcid]

I agree with your underlying view (just not the AR part)...we do have a problem with mental fortitude during games which go against us. It goes more deeper than the need for pick me up sideline pep talks, but the mentality of the team that ideally should be instilled by the coach.

Completely agree, it starts with the coaching staff. I think MLF can be a good coach in that regard, but ideally you also want your most veteran players to instil hope and fire among your younger players. And that is precisely the problem I think. In general we are always one of the younger teams in the league, hence less experienced and more uncertain/scared.

 

[Pugger]

1st half Rodgers wasn't great, but some people are little overboard. He played pretty well, and better the 2nd half. You'd like to think your starting guard can pick up a blitzing DB 1 on 1 and not let him run free to the QB. I need another replay on that fumbled snap, but did it even hit his hands? He had one questionable to Allison, made worse by Aikman and his comments, but he couldn't lead him up the field anymore because of the safety being right freaking there. Maybe he should have went elsewhere, and it wasn't a good ball, but when you throw it 40 times you're going to have a bad one against a defense like that.

We lost because they couldn't stop the run. Gashed time and time again. I've never seen a game with such gaping running lanes and even when they'd get it bottled up, he still runs in for a TD from 20 out. Redman buries his head in the back of someone and he just runs right around him. They were pathetic on defense. No 2 ways about it. All those sacks and nobody can tackle a RB anymore. The middle layer was exposed yet again. There is NOBODY there once they get thru the line, ever.

And this is because the middle of this defense is poor outside of Kenny Clark. The others on the DL are JAGs and ILB has been a weak spot for a while.

 

[Pugger]

Because they're a way better football team than us and preparation can't overcome that. We needed to be at our best tonight and they needed to be at their worst for us to have a shot. Didn't happen.

This!!!

It isn't a sin to admit when one team is better than you. Did anyone here really believe we were going to win unless we were perfect and they screwed up?

 

[lambeaulambo]

Hey hey hey, I stopped reading after page 3. People please, I know we are disappointed here but look seriously, WE got to a championship game with a team who were coached by a rookie coach. After a season when we were written off by many coming into the season after last seasons performance !!! We shouldn`t have even been there but we were !!! I for one am proud. I can walk with my head held up. We are moving forward no matter how slowly.
There were flashes that made my heart jump and last year I couldn`t honestly say that. I`m totally behind the Chiefs now if only for Andy Reid.

one thing to point out, this is a forum and peeps should voice it out, its good therapy, as long as it is not personal. I am with you on Reid. Hopefully he gets his due as he is and always has been an excellent coach.