Nfccg duds

Dantés

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I think it is the going for two when there was no reason and we are lousy at it. And not going for the TD pass. We were not runniing very well so I did not mind going away from that. Probably should have helped out the tackles. For me, just put Turner on the right side and move Jenkins to L tackle. Turner is a different player on the right. And Wagner was no super star.

Ok. I didn't have a problem with his choices there, but I understand some might.

But the way I'm reading it, it seems like a lot of people have a problem with the way he planned and called this game and I don't see that.
 

XPack

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Stud:

MvS

Duds:

Everything and everyone else.


I honestly can't believe I typed that out and actually mean it. :eek:
 

adambr2

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Everybody blaming the refs are lazy. The refs were allowing both sides to play and both sides got away with a lot. The pass interference penalty should have been a holding calla nd not a PI but it was an easy call.

Packers won the turnover battle and time of possession and didn't take advantage.

Stop blaming the refs.

Your second and third sentences are totally contradictory. You can't say they were letting them play all game and then say "but it was an easy call!" It was no more egregious than everything that was let go the entire game.
 

MadCat

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One of the keys to our success on offense has been our run-pass balance. Once that went out the window, it just made things more difficult for the offense to be successful. One dimensional like in prior years under MM.
 

marksj

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Started being a Packer fan watching Bart Start. Have seen many GB teams since. So with age I have got to the point of not watching the live game for about 5 years, just easier.
MLF has gotten us to the NFCC in his first 2 years. Wasn't my fav choice at first but can you defend him ahead of MM? I can,,,sure he has things to learn but we did see an offensive spark this year. Felt better this year going in to the playoffs than last year because I thought defense was improving as opposed to last year. Biggest worry was losing our pro bowl left tackle going in, however we seemed to adjust and offense looked good against a tough Rams defense. Thought things were clicking at the right time of the year. This loss will never be as bad as the Giants loss at home a few years ago!! Only been a few years in my lifetime I felt good about our defense however felt confident in our offense Several years!! Will see how things play out in the next month, have to let this game sit awhile. Rodgers NFCC record isn't very impressive but I think the blame goes most to the defense in those losses.
 

rodell330

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I’m 100% sure Kevin King was on the take. I’m convinced He helped throw the game because no NFL corner can be that stupid on purpose. His lack of awareness and football IQ at some critical moments did it for me. He’s gotta go. There’s no way I can defend the guy anymore...I fully expect the Packers to part ways with him for sure now.
 

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I’m 100% sure Kevin King was on the take. I’m convinced He helped throw the game because no NFL corner can be that stupid on purpose. His lack of awareness and football IQ at some critical moments did it for me. He’s gotta go. There’s no way I can defend the guy anymore...I fully expect the Packers to part ways with him for sure now.
Same. I was someone who defended King in the past but after yesterday, and I am aware that he is a very good number 2 corner compared to most. Goodbye and good riddance.
 

Dantés

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Same. I was someone who defended King in the past but after yesterday, and I am aware that he is a very good number 2 corner compared to most. Goodbye and good riddance.

Here's the thing... King has never been good.

In his best season ever, a handful of good plays helped off-set consistently poor play. But when those dry up, he's just a bad corner.
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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I want to break down the end of half Brady to Miller TD.

At the 1:24 mark (Best view) Packers are in a 2-4-5 Dime Hybrid.

DL is Clark and Z - This is fine.

"LBs" are Preston, Gary, Barnes, and Savage - Why is a guy with a club playing an obvious passing down? Where is Kirksey? Or even Raven? This should have been Kirksey/Raven for Barnes and Amos for Savage.

CBs are King, Jaire, and Sully - This is fine.

Safeties are Redmond and Amos in single high coverage - WHERE IS TRAMON? This should have been Savage and Tramon. Or AT LEAST Savage and Amos.

The personnel use is questionable to say the least.



Ball is snapped.

From the 1:24-1:30 mark:

Z, Clark, Preston, and Gary rush. They get a decent push. But Gary kinda fouls this up as he and Z choose the same hole. Which could have been by design put probably was a situational football error as Z and Gary essentially negate each other and fall on top of each other in a double stuffed pancake. Had Gary stayed outside the tackle he would have drawn Fournette (who was looking right at him) into pass protection. Instead, Fournette steps up into the pocket and chips Preston, who has an almost PERFECT shot at Brady.


Revert to 0:11 and play to 0:13 mark:

King has Miller.
Sullivan has Godwin.
Savage has Gronk.


Revert back to 1:24 mark and play to 1:30 mark:

Gronk is in to block so he negates Savage. Barnes has a middle zone and kind of roams and rushes(well attempts to) when he sees Gronk isn't on a delayed release but at 1:30 mark the ball is already out.

Jaire takes Evans out of the play. Brady never even looked that way, or if he did it was just with his eyes and not his helmet.


Here's where it goes horrifically wrong:

1:26 to 1:28 mark:

Amos, just like he did later on in the 3rd Quarter, just stares Brady down without getting any real depth. Godwin is already behind him by the time he bails.


0:11 to 0:15 mark:

Sullivan does his best Saban Shuffle and bails. This is exactly what you're supposed to do. The slowest CB on the field(4.60 40) never let Godwin, a much faster WR(4.42 40) get past him as you can see at the 0:15 mark.


0:40 mark:

Redmond is lined up on the right hash on the 19 almost directly on top of Amos who's at the 28 and slightly to the right of the right hash. The ball is placed on the right hash but why 2 safeties would be directly on top of each other (especially given their coverage roles as the play happened) doesn't make sense to me. Had Redmond been on the left hash that would have made sense to me....and possibly changed the results of this play.


1:27 to 1:31 mark:

Just like Amos, Redmond is staring down Brady, meanwhile gaining very little depth. From 1:28 to 1:30, Brady is CLEARLY looking at Miller, and Amos and Redmond are in the ALMOST EXACT same spots they were in before the ball was snapped, just maybe 5-7 yards deeper.


0:40 mark:

King is lined up right on the 35 and Miller is roughly at the 41. The speed difference is not as big as some would claim it to be, King's 4.43 against Miller's 4.39. The cushion is acceptable given situational football.


0:41 to 0:47 mark and simultaneously 0:15 to 0:17 mark:

When the ball is snapped, King is still in his transition phase all the way to roughly the 20 yard line. All the while CONSTANTLY looking back at Brady. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to run at full speed while your torso is turned.

Redmond comes back into focus and while I get you don't run to where the ball is at in pursuit you run to where it's going, but just like Amos he clearly let the offensive player get on top of him. Had he already been getting adequate depth while angling his backpedal towards Miller in those 2 seconds that Brady looked at him before he released the ball, instead of being 12 yards away from the play he probably would have been no more than 4.

For King as an NFL CB, you have to know your backpedal/shuffle should be no more than 3-5 yards and then flip your hips and run with the WR. As a pro CB, you should also know that the WR will tell you everything that's going on behind you....when he turns his head he's tracking the ball, when he moves his hands up that means the ball is probably right behind you. Then it's up to you to either just put your hands up or turn around and make a play on the ball.

King is 6'3, Miller is 5'9. Even if King just runs next to Miller and does nothing, he probably could have gotten a deflection off his shoulder pads or helmet, or at least prevented Miller from properly tracking the ball and positioning himself for the catch.



For Pettine, I question the personnel and I even further question the scheme in this particular situation. The man coverage was fine, but the what I would call the "double single-high" safety look was perplexing. The only alibi would be that Redmond had no clue what he was doing, he probably didn't.

But for the scheme miscues, the execution on the field was much worse. Redmond and Amos breaking the cardinal rule of Safeties: "don't let anyone past you" and of course Kevin King's abysmal CB fundamentals.



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scotscheese

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I want to break down the end of half Brady to Miller TD.

At the 1:24 mark (Best view) Packers are in a 2-4-5 Dime Hybrid.

DL is Clark and Z - This is fine.

"LBs" are Preston, Gary, Barnes, and Savage - Why is a guy with a club playing an obvious passing down? Where is Kirksey? Or even Raven? This should have been Kirksey/Raven for Barnes and Amos for Savage.

CBs are King, Jaire, and Sully - This is fine.

Safeties are Redmond and Amos in single high coverage - WHERE IS TRAMON? This should have been Savage and Tramon. Or AT LEAST Savage and Amos.

The personnel use is questionable to say the least.



Ball is snapped.

From the 1:24-1:30 mark:

Z, Clark, Preston, and Gary rush. They get a decent push. But Gary kinda fouls this up as he and Z choose the same hole. Which could have been by design put probably was a situational football error as Z and Gary essentially negate each other and fall on top of each other in a double stuffed pancake. Had Gary stayed outside the tackle he would have drawn Fournette (who was looking right at him) into pass protection. Instead, Fournette steps up into the pocket and chips Preston, who has an almost PERFECT shot at Brady.


Revert to 0:11 and play to 0:13 mark:

King has Miller.
Sullivan has Godwin.
Savage has Gronk.


Revert back to 1:24 mark and play to 1:30 mark:

Gronk is in to block so he negates Savage. Barnes has a middle zone and kind of roams and rushes(well attempts to) when he sees Gronk isn't on a delayed release but at 1:30 mark the ball is already out.

Jaire takes Evans out of the play. Brady never even looked that way, or if he did it was just with his eyes and not his helmet.


Here's where it goes horrifically wrong:

1:26 to 1:28 mark:

Amos, just like he did later on in the 3rd Quarter, just stares Brady down without getting any real depth. Godwin is already behind him by the time he bails.


0:11 to 0:15 mark:

Sullivan does his best Saban Shuffle and bails. This is exactly what you're supposed to do. The slowest CB on the field(4.60 40) never let Godwin, a much faster WR(4.42 40) get past him as you can see at the 0:15 mark.


0:40 mark:

Redmond is lined up on the right hash on the 19 almost directly on top of Amos who's at the 28 and slightly to the right of the right hash. The ball is placed on the right hash but why 2 safeties would be directly on top of each other (especially given their coverage roles as the play happened) doesn't make sense to me. Had Redmond been on the left hash that would have made sense to me....and possibly changed the results of this play.


1:27 to 1:31 mark:

Just like Amos, Redmond is staring down Brady, meanwhile gaining very little depth. From 1:28 to 1:30, Brady is CLEARLY looking at Miller, and Amos and Redmond are in the ALMOST EXACT same spots they were in before the ball was snapped, just maybe 5-7 yards deeper.


0:40 mark:

King is lined up right on the 35 and Miller is roughly at the 41. The speed difference is not as big as some would claim it to be, King's 4.43 against Miller's 4.39. The cushion is acceptable given situational football.


0:41 to 0:47 mark and simultaneously 0:15 to 0:17 mark:

When the ball is snapped, King is still in his transition phase all the way to roughly the 20 yard line. All the while CONSTANTLY looking back at Brady. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to run at full speed while your torso is turned.

Redmond comes back into focus and while I get you don't run to where the ball is at in pursuit you run to where it's going, but just like Amos he clearly let the offensive player get on top of him. Had he already been getting adequate depth while angling his backpedal towards Miller in those 2 seconds that Brady looked at him before he released the ball, instead of being 12 yards away from the play he probably would have been no more than 4.

For King as an NFL CB, you have to know your backpedal/shuffle should be no more than 3-5 yards and then flip your hips and run with the WR. As a pro CB, you should also know that the WR will tell you everything that's going on behind you....when he turns his head he's tracking the ball, when he moves his hands up that means the ball is probably right behind you. Then it's up to you to either just put your hands up or turn around and make a play on the ball.

King is 6'3, Miller is 5'9. Even if King just runs next to Miller and does nothing, he probably could have gotten a deflection off his shoulder pads or helmet, or at least prevented Miller from properly tracking the ball and positioning himself for the catch.



For Pettine, I question the personnel and I even further question the scheme in this particular situation. The man coverage was fine, but the what I would call the "double single-high" safety look was perplexing. The only alibi would be that Redmond had no clue what he was doing, he probably didn't.

But for the scheme miscues, the execution on the field was much worse. Redmond and Amos breaking the cardinal rule of Safeties: "don't let anyone past you" and of course Kevin King's abysmal CB fundamentals.



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tynimiller

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Not at all, to be fair that is the kind of breakdown expression more fans need....vastly too many see something bad happen and label one player blindly with fault or one factor the sole reason. He lays out multiple issues and some of largest factors...which I'd categorize as catastrophic by some involved.
 

easyk83

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Dud: Packerforum just lost an entire writeup.

Studs:

MVS
Jaire Alexander
Amos
Kenny Clarke
AJ Dillon


Duds:

Kevin King- the worst game Ive seen from him, have to wonder about how much his back was bothering him.

MLF- Bad from a schematic standpoint bad from a preparation standpoint and bad personnel decisions. The team came out flat and played flat throughout the game. You have a mediocre pair of tackles, as soon as they started to struggle he should have schemed some relief, where were the chips TE bumps etc to slow down the outside rush? Im just a fan and not a particularly knowledgeable one, but I looked at TBs Defense and thought shoot they have a smallish but lightning fast LB corps... maybe we should try them out in the early going with our big fast 250 pound bull of a running back. Naturally Dillon barely played until Jones went out, but in his few snaps he was on a different level from Williams and Jones. Have to wonder how he would have faired had he gotten the call early. Also he, MLF, chickened out in the final drive. You fail on 4th can goal you have them backed up on their side of the field and a chance to get the ball back with favorable positioning. He played the lower percentage strategy. Yes I worry that he's a superb assistant but not a head coach yet if he ever will be one.

Mike Pettine- This has been done to death, nothing to say here. Where was the help for Kevin King?

Aaron Jones- those fumbles just cant happen.

Wagner/Turner although its not entirely their fault they are a bad OT tandem, coaching should have done more.

Aaron Rodgers situational football- two plays stand out. First on one of our stalled post pick drives Rodgers faces 2nd and 11. Now a qb like Tom Brady goes into this play knowing that he needs to get us either a first down or atleast set up third and manageable. But Aaron Rodgers isn't Tom Brady, Rodgers goes for a downfield low percentage throw for MVS which is something he's always done. Brady would have likely either gotten a first down on second or set up for a high percentage third down conversion. Rodgers set us up for a low percentage third and long and then a punt when that attempt predictably failed. This is partly why Brady has played in a historic number of SBs and has how many rings again and Rodgers only has one.

The Second play was when he checked to a run pass option on 2nd down at TBs 8. The call was for Dillon and who knows, if he gets say 3 yards our odds of scoring a tuddy on 3rd or 4th down markedly increases. The angles inside the 5 are much better than say from yards 7 to 10. Instead Rodgers checks to a throw in traffic, Lazard doesnt look for the ball and go figure we get a long 3rd and goal from the 8.
 
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Mondio

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why was the check to lazard the wrong choice? it was open. it's no different than if he stuck with the run, maybe it's a 2 yard loss with how they were destroying 3 of our 5 offensive linemen all day. You have to execute no matter what.
 

Dantés

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why was the check to lazard the wrong choice? it was open. it's no different than if he stuck with the run, maybe it's a 2 yard loss with how they were destroying 3 of our 5 offensive linemen all day. You have to execute no matter what.

I'm generally open to criticism of calls if it can be explained why they were fundamentally wrong, but most of the time criticisms boil down to "it didn't work."
 

Poppa San

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I don't recall seeing Tramon on the field at all. Sullivan was getting picked apart in the first half. Then TB turned their sights on King. Tramon's experience late in the first half would have helped, especially if he was replacing Redmond.
 

Mondio

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I want to break down the end of half Brady to Miller TD.

At the 1:24 mark (Best view) Packers are in a 2-4-5 Dime Hybrid.

DL is Clark and Z - This is fine.

"LBs" are Preston, Gary, Barnes, and Savage - Why is a guy with a club playing an obvious passing down? Where is Kirksey? Or even Raven? This should have been Kirksey/Raven for Barnes and Amos for Savage.

CBs are King, Jaire, and Sully - This is fine.

Safeties are Redmond and Amos in single high coverage - WHERE IS TRAMON? This should have been Savage and Tramon. Or AT LEAST Savage and Amos.

The personnel use is questionable to say the least.



Ball is snapped.

From the 1:24-1:30 mark:

Z, Clark, Preston, and Gary rush. They get a decent push. But Gary kinda fouls this up as he and Z choose the same hole. Which could have been by design put probably was a situational football error as Z and Gary essentially negate each other and fall on top of each other in a double stuffed pancake. Had Gary stayed outside the tackle he would have drawn Fournette (who was looking right at him) into pass protection. Instead, Fournette steps up into the pocket and chips Preston, who has an almost PERFECT shot at Brady.


Revert to 0:11 and play to 0:13 mark:

King has Miller.
Sullivan has Godwin.
Savage has Gronk.


Revert back to 1:24 mark and play to 1:30 mark:

Gronk is in to block so he negates Savage. Barnes has a middle zone and kind of roams and rushes(well attempts to) when he sees Gronk isn't on a delayed release but at 1:30 mark the ball is already out.

Jaire takes Evans out of the play. Brady never even looked that way, or if he did it was just with his eyes and not his helmet.


Here's where it goes horrifically wrong:

1:26 to 1:28 mark:

Amos, just like he did later on in the 3rd Quarter, just stares Brady down without getting any real depth. Godwin is already behind him by the time he bails.


0:11 to 0:15 mark:

Sullivan does his best Saban Shuffle and bails. This is exactly what you're supposed to do. The slowest CB on the field(4.60 40) never let Godwin, a much faster WR(4.42 40) get past him as you can see at the 0:15 mark.


0:40 mark:

Redmond is lined up on the right hash on the 19 almost directly on top of Amos who's at the 28 and slightly to the right of the right hash. The ball is placed on the right hash but why 2 safeties would be directly on top of each other (especially given their coverage roles as the play happened) doesn't make sense to me. Had Redmond been on the left hash that would have made sense to me....and possibly changed the results of this play.


1:27 to 1:31 mark:

Just like Amos, Redmond is staring down Brady, meanwhile gaining very little depth. From 1:28 to 1:30, Brady is CLEARLY looking at Miller, and Amos and Redmond are in the ALMOST EXACT same spots they were in before the ball was snapped, just maybe 5-7 yards deeper.


0:40 mark:

King is lined up right on the 35 and Miller is roughly at the 41. The speed difference is not as big as some would claim it to be, King's 4.43 against Miller's 4.39. The cushion is acceptable given situational football.


0:41 to 0:47 mark and simultaneously 0:15 to 0:17 mark:

When the ball is snapped, King is still in his transition phase all the way to roughly the 20 yard line. All the while CONSTANTLY looking back at Brady. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to run at full speed while your torso is turned.

Redmond comes back into focus and while I get you don't run to where the ball is at in pursuit you run to where it's going, but just like Amos he clearly let the offensive player get on top of him. Had he already been getting adequate depth while angling his backpedal towards Miller in those 2 seconds that Brady looked at him before he released the ball, instead of being 12 yards away from the play he probably would have been no more than 4.

For King as an NFL CB, you have to know your backpedal/shuffle should be no more than 3-5 yards and then flip your hips and run with the WR. As a pro CB, you should also know that the WR will tell you everything that's going on behind you....when he turns his head he's tracking the ball, when he moves his hands up that means the ball is probably right behind you. Then it's up to you to either just put your hands up or turn around and make a play on the ball.

King is 6'3, Miller is 5'9. Even if King just runs next to Miller and does nothing, he probably could have gotten a deflection off his shoulder pads or helmet, or at least prevented Miller from properly tracking the ball and positioning himself for the catch.



For Pettine, I question the personnel and I even further question the scheme in this particular situation. The man coverage was fine, but the what I would call the "double single-high" safety look was perplexing. The only alibi would be that Redmond had no clue what he was doing, he probably didn't.

But for the scheme miscues, the execution on the field was much worse. Redmond and Amos breaking the cardinal rule of Safeties: "don't let anyone past you" and of course Kevin King's abysmal CB fundamentals.



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well, Greene is on IR and has been for a while. Barnes solidified that defense being in there to call the defense, no problems with him on the field. and Tramon while nice to maybe have in a pinch, there's a reason he was out almost the entire season and only played a handful or snaps with the Ravens last week. A guy that has hardly played, is at the end of his career and just signed in week isn't your best option.
 

Dantés

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I don't recall seeing Tramon on the field at all. Sullivan was getting picked apart in the first half. Then TB turned their sights on King. Tramon's experience late in the first half would have helped, especially if he was replacing Redmond.

Maybe. But I don't think Tramon would have been able to do anything to avoid the outcome of the Miller TD.
 

easyk83

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why was the check to lazard the wrong choice? it was open. it's no different than if he stuck with the run, maybe it's a 2 yard loss with how they were destroying 3 of our 5 offensive linemen all day. You have to execute no matter what.

It's a risky decision, either way, suppose Lazard mishandles the ball and it pops up into the air with a number of defenders around. Hackett and MLF wanted a run there, and they were probably right. Squeeze the field and set up better passing angles into the end zone on the next down and perhaps the down after that. Does MLF kick a field goal if it's 4th down inside the 5? Once you get into a goal line situation the closer you get the easier it is to score, the angles keep getting better and better.
 

Sunshinepacker

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You'd blow Pettine off if you got the chance.

That comes down to coaching. Plain and simple. GTFOH with the excuses. And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't that out of a timeout? There's ZERO excuses. COACH your players up for the MOMENT. Be an actual coach. Don't assume what your players will do in the moment because if you do, it might result in them doing something you didn't overwise teach them not to do.

Sure. King has obviously proven himself to you with his vast history of stellar corner play. I'm assuming you think Alexander became the player he is because he ignored the awful coaching?
 

Sunshinepacker

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You cannot be serious. You don't leave any opportunity there for any one on one much less even chancing a corner getting beat deep. You play cover 3 or cover 4 and keep everything in front and leave the middle of the field wide open. Your absolute worst case scenario you leave is a short checkdown for 10 yards that gets out of bounds and allows enough time for a long FG chance. Anything in the field of play is halftime.

You do realize that Mike Pettine's own boss threw him under the bus for that call. It was an egregiously bad defensive playcall.

I didn't defend Pettine on the play call! I said Kings inability to know basic fundamentals of how to play corner are on KING, not Pettine! I'm pretty sure the DC didn't tell King, "stop going backwards after 15 yards randomly so that receiver can get by you."
 
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I’m 100% sure Kevin King was on the take. I’m convinced He helped throw the game because no NFL corner can be that stupid on purpose. His lack of awareness and football IQ at some critical moments did it for me. He’s gotta go. There’s no way I can defend the guy anymore...I fully expect the Packers to part ways with him for sure now.

On the take ? That`s a new one.
 

Mondio

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It's a risky decision, either way, suppose Lazard mishandles the ball and it pops up into the air with a number of defenders around. Hackett and MLF wanted a run there, and they were probably right. Squeeze the field and set up better passing angles into the end zone on the next down and perhaps the down after that. Does MLF kick a field goal if it's 4th down inside the 5? Once you get into a goal line situation the closer you get the easier it is to score, the angles keep getting better and better.
they all have risk. How many TD's do we have on the year with plays just like that? It was open. MLF and Hackett also give Rodgers the ability to check to what he sees. He saw it just fine. Lazard didn't. what are you going to do?

It's no different than sticking with the run, Patrick gets pushed 3 yards into the backfield and it goes for a loss.
 
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