Is it time?

[OldSchool101]

10 of 23 for 83 one interception zero TDs 53 QBR are his combined stats for the fourth quarters of the season ending home losses to Tampa Bay, SF and (checks notes… does a double take) Detroit (hence the “” around “playoff” while the Detroit loss was not a true playoff game, it was in essence a playoff game and losing it ended our season, a win and we would have moved on. But feel free to try to put a positive spin on 10/23/83 1 int 0 TD 53 QBR - I hope a trade partner somewhere shares your view

I’m not spinning anything. If anyone is spinning it’s anyone (meaning you! Lol) who picks and chooses which contests to include and used both postseason and preseason combinations. Also 3 Qtrs in a loss is a pretty limited grouping, especially considering how many games it takes a QB to set a team in position to go to a SB or Postseason contest.

I get it though. I agree that we have high standards for Aaron and he did have a bad close out game recently. I’m not arguing that. However let’s quit pretending that the 5 games preceding didn’t count. Or that the 18-19 games each season leading up to those contests didn’t count. Or that the Defense doesn’t count. Or that Special Teams doesn’t count.

What about when teams that start near our 50 yard line or in our Redzone because we can’t slow down their Returner. is that Aarons fault? What about players who fumbled in those big games? Is that Aaron’s Fault. Ryan Grant, Marcedes Lewis, Aaron Jones, other Wideouts. Some multiple fumbles and some either in scoring position for us, or scoring position for our opponent. Those are deal breakers.

It takes more than three 4th quarters and an Offense to win a football game and Had we Won? We would’ve never had this conversation. Aaron deserves his share of the blame but it takes 46 guys to Win and it takes 46 guys to lose. How about our Defense or ST unit doesn’t go Stupid on us for once.

 

[Half Empty]

Luckily NFL organizations don't use two game sample sizes to make decisions. If they did, Love would already be out of the NFL and selling insurance.

ESPN Brain is a disease among sports fans these days where they treat the NFL like tennis. The QB is the sole reason for winning and losing. All the other players/coaches are just there for the hell of it. Like extras in a movie starring the QB

First, let's have a show of hands of everyone who DOESN'T think that QBs get too much blame/credit, depending. Second, if someone is willing to accept way more cash (which is the way these guys, and a lot of us, measure someone's worth) than the rest of the guys on the team, they should be willing to be held accountable.

 

[lambeaulambo]

no new news...he is a choker. onward..

 

[AKCheese]

Mayb

I’m not spinning anything. If anyone is spinning it’s anyone (meaning you! Lol) who picks and chooses which contests to include and used both postseason and preseason combinations. Also 3 Qtrs in a loss is a pretty limited grouping, especially considering how many games it takes a QB to set a team in position to go to a SB or Postseason contest.

I get it though. I agree that we have high standards for Aaron and he did have a bad close out game recently. I’m not arguing that. However let’s quit pretending that the 5 games preceding didn’t count. Or that the 18-19 games each season leading up to those contests didn’t count. Or that the Defense doesn’t count. Or that Special Teams doesn’t count.

What about when teams that start near our 50 yard line or in our Redzone because we can’t slow down their Returner. is that Aarons fault? What about players who fumbled in those big games? Is that Aaron’s Fault. Ryan Grant, Marcedes Lewis, Aaron Jones, other Wideouts. Some multiple fumbles and some either in scoring position for us, or scoring position for our opponent. Those are deal breakers.

It takes more than three 4th quarters and an Offense to win a football game and Had we Won? We would’ve never had this conversation. Aaron deserves his share of the blame but it takes 46 guys to Win and it takes 46 guys to lose. How about our Defense or ST unit doesn’t go Stupid on us for once.

Maybe you don’t understand, it’s not 3 quarters in A loss. In the 4th quarter of the home loss in the NFCCG to Tampa Bay, the 4th quarter of the home playoff loss to SF (2022), and the 4th quarter of this years season ending home to detroit, in those 3 fourth quarters combined…. 3 chances to lead his team to victory, or not. Three close winnable home games… his combined output as the quarterback of the team was 10 completions on 23 attempts 83 yards one interception zero touchdowns 54 QBR. Is it all Rodgers? Of course not. Did he totally fail to perform at a high level in the fourth quarter of 3 consecutive season ending home losses? In 2021, 2022 and 2023. I honestly don’t see how anyone could come to any other conclusion.

 

[OldSchool101]

Mayb

Maybe you don’t understand, it’s not 3 quarters in A loss. In the 4th quarter of the home loss in the NFCCG to Tampa Bay, the 4th quarter of the home playoff loss to SF (2022), and the 4th quarter of this years season ending home to detroit, in those 3 fourth quarters combined…. 3 chances to lead his team to victory, or not. Three close winnable home games… his combined output as the quarterback of the team was 10 completions on 23 attempts 83 yards one interception zero touchdowns 54 QBR. Is it all Rodgers? Of course not. Did he totally fail to perform at a high level in the fourth quarter of 3 consecutive season ending home losses? In 2021, 2022 and 2023. I honestly don’t see how anyone could come to any other conclusion.

I’ll give you Lions here. #12 sucked in that 4th quarter.

That 4th Qtr against the 49ers? You do realize #12 only initiated 1 possession in The 4th Quarter right? At the packers 4 yardline! Runyon put us at 1st and 15 with a penalty.
-5.2 yards per pass combined teams
15 total passing 1stDowns combined
That’s less than 2 passing 1st downs per quarter per QB. It tells a story in itself.

Moving on to Tampa @ GB January 2021? Not sure if you remember but In that The NFC game, Aaron threw for 313 passing yards; 3TD-1INT
101.6 Passer rating (in comparison Tom Brady had a 73.9 rating!)

Aaron Rodgers led Offense Dominated the clock 34:37 to 25:23 and easily led the board with 381 yards of Offense. That’s plenty good enough to win the bulk of games imo. Was it his fault that #33 fumbled and Tampa started on our 4 yard line? So as far as this insinuation he played terrible based on 2 drives, one ending at the opponent 8 yardline and 3 points FG
I don’t buy it here because he has played pretty well most of the day and even on the last drive got us close.

So. Should Aaron have put up ~375-400 yards passing and another TD for a Barbaric 4TD+ and 120+ passer rating? Against that 2020 Tampa SB champion caliber Defense? Nope.
Quite honestly, I’m not even sure Mahomes could’ve done that.

 

[AKCheese]

I’ll give you Lions. #12 sucked

That 4th Qtr against the 49ers? Yiu do realize #12 o my started 1 possession in The 4th Quarter right? At the packers 4 yardline! Thrn Runyon put us at 1st and 15 with a penalty.
It was only like 9 degrees, You could see their breath whip away in that wind. Good flying kites weather though! Both teams Offenses struggled mightily.
5.2 yards per pass combined
15 total passing 1stDowns combined
That’s less than 2 passing 1st downs per quarter per QB. It tells a story in itself.

As an example in an indoor environment. The Super Bowl had
35 passing 1st downs combined
7.9 yards per pass

Moving on to Tampa @ GB January 2021?
Not sure if you remember but In that The NFC game, Aaron threw for
313 passing yards
3TD 1INT
101.6 Passer rating (in comparison Tom Brady had a 73.9 rating!)

Aaron Rodgers led Offense Dominated the clock 34:37 to 25:23 and easily led the board with 381 yards of Offense. That’s plenty good enough to win the bulk of games imo. Was it his fault that #33 fumbled and Tampa started on our 4 yard line? So as far as this insinuation he played terrible based on 2 drives, one ending at the opponent 8 yardline and 3 points
I don’t buy it.

So. Should Aaron have put up ~375-400 yards passing and another TD for a Barbaric 4TD+ and 120+ passer rating? Against that 2020 Tampa SB champion caliber Defense? Nope.
Quite honestly, I’m not even sure Mahomes could’ve done that.

So looking more intently. It’s a weird way to judge a QB across 3 losses imo. Where did you get that info from the Bears forum? Lol

It’s a totally objective totally empirical look at his performance in the 4th quarter of 3 consecutive home “playoff” losses. Yup game on the line against SF our hero goes one for 4 for 4 yards … awesome

I’m glad he had a good 1st half against Tampa Bay. But in the 4th quarter? (Or in the Red Zone even in the first half) - not so much

 

[OldSchool101]

It’s a totally objective totally empirical look at his performance in the 4th quarter of 3 consecutive home “playoff” losses. Yup game on the line against SF our hero goes one for 4 for 4 yards … awesome

I’m glad he had a good 1st half against Tampa Bay. But in the 4th quarter? (Or in the Red Zone even in the first half) - not so much

SF49ers. It was 1 drive! Did I personally want him to go 96 yards and a TD? Sure. Was it probable to overcome 96 yards against that Defense? I’m just being honest and saying no. Especially after getting out if that hole to our 25 and then Runyon backing us up to the 20.
1st n 15 with another 80 yards to go. I guess I have more respect for the SF Defense than you do though. You act like they are slouches. That SF Defense was better than our GB Offense as a group, just my opinion.

Had you taken 32 teams Offenses and started them at their own 4 yard line again at SF49ers Defense in that weather? I’ll bet you $$1000 that not more than 4-5 Offenses tops could go the distance for a TD (because you obviously don’t count FG’s ) Afterwards, You’d probably have to fire 28-30 starting QB’s is my guess

 

[AKCheese]

actually he started the 4th quarter agsinst SF on the SF 18 yards line and in 6 plays he (checks notes) “moved us” to the 15 yard line - nice

Runyan I believe was called for being downfield on a(nother) incomplete pass. Did Rodgers hold the ball too long? I have no idea. I have neither the time nor inclination to rewatch. 10 of 23 for 83 one pic zero Tds for 3 home playoff losses pretty much tells me what I need to know.

BTW Jimmy G on the game winning drive in that same weather? 2 for 2 for 26 (never tried to air it out long when he knew he needed to move the chains and get in FG range - hmmmmm)

 

[AKCheese]

actually he started the 4th quarter agsinst SF on the SF 18 yards line and in 6 plays he (checks notes) “moved us” to the 15 yard line - nice

SF49ers. It was 1 drive! Did I personally want him to go 96 yards and a TD? Sure. Was it probable to overcome 96 yards against that Defense? I’m just being honest and saying no. Especially after getting out if that hole to our 25 and then Runyon backing us up to the 20.
1st n 15 with another 80 yards to go. I guess I have more respect for the SF Defense than you do though. You act like they are slouches. That SF Defense was better than our GB Offense as a group, just my opinion.

Had you taken 32 teams Offenses and started them at their own 4 yard line again at SF49ers Defense in that weather? I’ll bet you $$1000 that not more than 4-5 Offenses tops could go the distance for a TD (because you obviously don’t count FG’s ) Afterwards, You’d probably have to fire 28-30 starting QB’s is my guess

A) I believe the drive you’re referring to started on the GB 29 - at last according to the ESPN play by play. Amari Rodgers fielded the punt on the 4 (amazingly) returned it to the 29. B) Rodgers didnt need a TD - he needed a FG - you know, like Jimmy G did after Rodgers failed to move the team - at all

 

[AKCheese]

• (4:41 - 4th) R.Gould kicks 61 yards from SF 35 to GB 4. Am.Rodgers pushed ob at GB 29 for 25 yards (D.Dennard).

• 1st & 10 at GB 29​

  (4:36 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right. PENALTY on GB-J.Runyan, Ineligible Downfield Pass, 5 yards, enforced at GB 29 - No Play.

• 1st & 15 at GB 24​

  (4:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to D.Adams to GB 28 for 4 yards (D.Johnson).

• 2nd & 11 at GB 28​

  (3:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to R.Cobb (K.Williams).

• 3rd & 11 at GB 28​

  (3:40 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep middle to D.Adams.

 

[OldSchool101]

• (4:41 - 4th) R.Gould kicks 61 yards from SF 35 to GB 4. Am.Rodgers pushed ob at GB 29 for 25 yards (D.Dennard).

• 1st & 10 at GB 29​

  (4:36 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right. PENALTY on GB-J.Runyan, Ineligible Downfield Pass, 5 yards, enforced at GB 29 - No Play.

• 1st & 15 at GB 24​

  (4:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass short right to D.Adams to GB 28 for 4 yards (D.Johnson).

• 2nd & 11 at GB 28​

  (3:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to R.Cobb (K.Williams).

• 3rd & 11 at GB 28​

  (3:40 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep middle to D.Adams.

Ok right we got a 25 yard PR by Amari, so my bad. But it’s still hell n gone to score a TD in those frigid conditions. 1st n 15 from our 24 isn’t exactly easy there.
It sounded like that article is praising Jimmy G? Really?
Garrapolo 11/19 57.9 completion%
57.1 Passer rating 0-TD 1-INT

Rodgers 20/29 69.0 completion %
91.9 Passer rating 0-TD

Neither was a superb performance. However my point is that SF didn’t Win because Jimmy G is some clutch QB or better than Aaron Rodgers. That’s what it’s implying and it’s just ludicrous.

Yes Aaron has had several games where he could’ve played better. #12 has also had many key playoff caliber games where he needed our ST or our Defense to do their job. It’s a team sport and all 3 phases have to carry their weight. Small leaks sink big ships

 

[Mondio]

Every single QB that’s being talked about as one of the greats or more clutch whatever have been helped out in huge moments by their respective teams to get by a less than great to poor outing. They’ve all had them and sometimes they still win them.

With Rodgers that has rarely been the case. In the big games if he hasn’t been great or better nobody has picked it up and sealed the deal. Brady’s defense picks it off at the goal line to win and we give up a duck 2pt try, fail to recover an o side kick, lay down on what could have been a game clinching Int, can’t block to get a punt off, fumble punts away etc.

Rodgers isn’t without blame, and he certainly could have been great a few more times than he has been, but it’s been a common theme for a long time. If he’s not great we don’t win. Lots of these QBs have been less than great along the way and their team rises up and gives them a chance to be great another week.

 

[AKCheese]

Ok right we got a 25 yard PR by Amari, so my bad. But it’s still hell n gone to score a TD in those frigid conditions. 1st n 15 from our 24 isn’t exactly easy there.
It sounded like that article is praising Jimmy G? Really?
Garrapolo 11/19 57.9 completion%
57.1 Passer rating 0-TD 1-INT

Rodgers 20/29 69.0 completion %
91.9 Passer rating 0-TD

Neither was a superb performance. However my point is that SF didn’t Win because Jimmy G is some clutch QB or better than Aaron Rodgers. That’s what it’s implying and it’s just ludicrous.

Yes Aaron has had several games where he could’ve played better. #12 has also had many key playoff caliber games where he needed our ST or our Defense to do their job. It’s a team sport and all 3 phases have to carry their weight. Small leaks sink big ships

A) Green Bay didn’t need a touchdown. The score was tied. They needed to move the chains and hopefully score to win or at least maintain the tie. Instead they whiffed and had to punt. B) Jimmy G passed for 26 yards enroute to the winning score in the same conditions you’re saying justify Rodgers doing NOTHING. Again, it’s a team game - team wins - team losses. I’m pointing out the absurdity of the whole “#12 is the poor victim” BS. He whiffs three times inside the 10 against TB, then pouts when MLF doesnt tee up another one on 4th down. He has failed to perform in the clutch NUMEROUS times in his career including in the final quarter of the last 3 seasons. Several of the times the Packers failed to advance the blame (should) lay squarely on #12s shoulders but he loves to play the victim and far too many people in Packerland let him get away with it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

First, let's have a show of hands of everyone who DOESN'T think that QBs get too much blame/credit, depending. Second, if someone is willing to accept way more cash (which is the way these guys, and a lot of us, measure someone's worth) than the rest of the guys on the team, they should be willing to be held accountable.

I agree Rodgers should be held accountable. He definitely deserves part of the blame for those losses but he's hardly the only one.

So. Should Aaron have put up ~375-400 yards passing and another TD for a Barbaric 4TD+ and 120+ passer rating? Against that 2020 Tampa SB champion caliber Defense? Nope.
Quite honestly, I’m not even sure Mahomes could’ve done that.

Mahomes played that Bucs defense in the Super Bowl two weeks later. He completed 26 of 49 passes for 270 yards, zero TDs and two interceptions for a passer rating of 52.3.

I’m glad he had a good 1st half against Tampa Bay. But in the 4th quarter? (Or in the Red Zone even in the first half) - not so much

Rodgers was actually great in the third quarter of that game, completing 15 of 18 passes for 123 yards and two TDs for a passer rating of 132.2. Of course you will continue to ignore it as the clock didn't show it was the fourth quarter for any of those plays.

 

[longtimefan]

Experience with Aaron Rodgers influenced Nathaniel Hackett’s approach to Russell Wilson

The big takeaway from the item in TheAthletic.com regarding Russell Wilson’s first year in Denver comes from the report that he wanted Seattle owner Jody Allen to fire coach Pete Carroll and …

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

in 2019 Hackett arrived as offensive coordinator, working with new coach Matt LaFleur. Per the report, LaFleur would “sometimes present a new concept or play in an offensive meeting,” and Rodgers would then “shoot it down.

 

[gopkrs]

Mahomes played that Bucs defense in the Super Bowl two weeks later. He completed 26 of 49 passes for 270 yards, zero TDs and two interceptions for a passer rating of 52.3.

Just to, in my mind, set the record straighter; the bucs had a great D and KC's offensive line was in tatters.

 

[AKCheese]

Rodgers was actually great in the third quarter of that game, completing 15 of 18 passes for 123 yards and two TDs for a passer rating of 132.2. Of course you will continue to ignore it as the clock didn't show it was the fourth quarter for any of those plays.

Correct - because my point is Mr MVP has done the disappearing act in the 4th quarter of 3 consecutive home “playoff” losses. How he does in other quarters (or games) is irrelevant to that point.

Actually YOUR point is illuminating tho. The Bucs defense was hardly impenetrable… yet in the fourth quarter - with the game on the line - Mr Rodgers folded like cheap lawn furniture - ditto against SF and Det.

 

[Mondio]

Experience with Aaron Rodgers influenced Nathaniel Hackett’s approach to Russell Wilson

The big takeaway from the item in TheAthletic.com regarding Russell Wilson’s first year in Denver comes from the report that he wanted Seattle owner Jody Allen to fire coach Pete Carroll and …

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

so I broke my own rule before I realized it was PFT and clicked the link. It says nothing. Seriously.

Right after the quote you chose to use there is this one

The problem may have been that it was too easy for Wilson.

“He had too much influence,” another coach told TheAthletic.com. “And it was mainly based on what Hackett allowed him to influence.”

There is no context or meaning in any of that. They're as worthless as the other. Who cares if Rodgers shot something down? You think every coach and player is on board with something new? I bet MLF shot some things down too and Hackett didn't always like what Rodgers was laying down either. are they just telling us there are disagreements in the planning room? No ****?

And was this some concept that could have worked here, but never saw the light of day because of Rodgers, but flourished in Denver?


Was he trying to say he couldn't argue with his QB? Was he saying his QB can't be in the offensive planning? if so, why did Wilson get what he wanted to do? If he can't argue with his QB how on earth did he get to be a HC?

 

[longtimefan]

so I broke my own rule before I realized it was PFT and clicked the link. It says nothing. Seriously.

Right after the quote you chose to use there is this one



There is no context or meaning in any of that. They're as worthless as the other. Who cares if Rodgers shot something down? You think every coach and player is on board with something new? I bet MLF shot some things down too and Hackett didn't always like what Rodgers was laying down either. are they just telling us there are disagreements in the planning room? No ****?

And was this some concept that could have worked here, but never saw the light of day because of Rodgers, but flourished in Denver?


Was he trying to say he couldn't argue with his QB? Was he saying his QB can't be in the offensive planning? if so, why did Wilson get what he wanted to do? If he can't argue with his QB how on earth did he get to be a HC?

If it's believed. Rodgers isnt open to new schemes or plays? is what I took from the quote

So now Hackett is in NY...does he want rodgers to shoot down new plays?

 

[Mondio]

If it's believed. Rodgers isnt open to new schemes or plays? is what I took from the quote

So now Hackett is in NY...does he want rodgers to shoot down new plays?

or it means, they disagreed about how something would work with a given concept or play. It happens, at every level and could be nothing but completely normal. There is zero context again other than someone said. If MLF and Hackett weren't running the offensive show why did they give Aaron more money again? If that's the case, we had the wrong OC and have the wrong HC.

I don't expect them to agree on everything and there will be give and take, I expect that.

But then it doesn't make sense with what happened in Denver. He didn't want his QB in on meetings to question stuff? I'm fine with that, I think it's crazy to have QB's that good and not allow it, but whatever they choose they're the coach.

But then they say Wilson go to do whatever he wanted, so which is it?

 

[longtimefan]

or it means, they disagreed about how something would work with a given concept or play. It happens, at every level and could be nothing but completely normal. There is zero context again other than someone said. If MLF and Hackett weren't running the offensive show why did they give Aaron more money again? If that's the case, we had the wrong OC and have the wrong HC.

I don't expect them to agree on everything and there will be give and take, I expect that.

But then it doesn't make sense with what happened in Denver. He didn't want his QB in on meetings to question stuff? I'm fine with that, I think it's crazy to have QB's that good and not allow it, but whatever they choose they're the coach.

But then they say Wilson go to do whatever he wanted, so which is it?

I dont't care about Wilson

And we will never see eye to eye on things as this.

My opinion is mine..might be wrong and you maybe right. I get the feeling until you see it from or hear from rodgers you will never trust any thing

 

[Pugger]

Just to, in my mind, set the record straighter; the bucs had a great D and KC's offensive line was in tatters.

Wasn't our OL a mess in that NFCC game too?

 

[Pugger]

I dont't care about Wilson

And we will never see eye to eye on things as this.

My opinion is mine..might be wrong and you maybe right. I get the feeling until you see it from or hear from rodgers you will never trust any thing

I think we should all wait to hear it from the horse's mouth before we declare who is right or wrong.

 

[Krabs]

Correct - because my point is Mr MVP has done the disappearing act in the 4th quarter of 3 consecutive home “playoff” losses. How he does in other quarters (or games) is irrelevant to that point.

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[OldSchool101]

Wasn't our OL a mess in that NFCC game too?

Good point. We just lost our All Pro LT if I’m not mistaken? Lost him like that week with essentially no notice.

You pull the best Tackle from the game on most teams and it absolutely affects the Offense and possibly even restricts the game plan to some degree.