Is it time?

[gopkrs]

The future draft picks are generally considered lower value by most of the league.

that is true. But I don't care. I'll take the future.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

that is true. But I don't care. I'll take the future.

I agree, it's time to look forward. The most we'll get out of AR is 2-3 years max (remember he said he isn't going to play as long as TB), IDK about y'all, but I'll definitely be a GBP til I die. I plan on living past 2-3 years. Some come off as AR fans first, GBP fans a close 2nd. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying they don't love the GBP, but I do think that they've been blinded by his early success' to the point they think that should be the new normal. We were lucky enough for 30 years of HOF QB play, but that's definitely not normal, almost every single NFL franchise gets one great QB to none.

 

[tynimiller]

The future draft picks are generally considered lower value by most of the league. Even if you disagree with the premise that "next year is worth less," surely you can agree that the Jets are likely to win more games with Rodgers, ergo, each pick is likely to be later in each round, yes? And in such a situation, those picks will be worth less (not worthless) because they are later in each round?


Sure, I'll admit I know little of Ruckert, but by your own words, he didn't play at all last year due to injury. Where is he in his recovery? Has he even begun rehab? Unknown Value.

Mims by most observations is terrible. Why were the Jets willing to move on from him? It seems more likely he'd be cut by the Jets. IMHO, 0 value in trade.

Clemons has some value to me, he produced something at this level. And one can never have enough pass rushers, but 5th round no. 4 EDGE players are somewhat plentiful. If he can play special teams, sure, I'd want him. You'd get him for only 3 years vs. 4 as a rookie, so I'd value him approximately where he was drafted minus a little bit.

That's my ballpark math.



I don't see why we couldn't get that kind of offer in addition to picks. Though if we're accepting players, I'd hope to get a starter or someone the Packers actually want/graded highly when they came out. Assuming the Packers had graded Ruckert and Mims highly or favorably relative to whatever metric they use, sure, whatever, try to work them into the deal. But I would not add them in, trying to bargain bin dig.


Again, I'm not terribly worried about the cap hit. If we're tight as a result of that hit someday, we'd likely cut some aging vets that are approaching the end of their second contract. The young core would survive.

I think you have proven you solely skim read comments...never said Ruckert never played at all last year. He missed some time not all, if memory serves five or six games and saw snaps immediately when back - you can research that.

Again...you're not showcasing your knowledge of opinions of guys, Mims was a guy that from all accounts our War Room thought highly of, simply didn't work out to come to us. Mims actually was one of the Packers pre-draft interviews/visits, Ruckert fits every category of need and desired TE play in the MLF system for one of our inline guys (he for sure has the promise of a TE2 in our system.

Also you don't get the 2023 pick haul in the trade the situation outlined entails (the draft already would have occurred).

I will say again, my expression of the situation outlined is not in a manner of supporting the concept as my preferred - quite the contrary as it is not. I do however see a serious amount of merit to it in that it would be very attractive to a Jets team looking to win RIGHT NOW and we enter the offseason after 2023 knowing if Love if the answer or if he isn't:

If LOVE is the guy: you have 2 Day 1 picks, potentially 2 Second Round Picks to build around him in 2024, and in 2025 you have two first rounders again with possibly (conditional) two picks Day 2 and perhaps something in 2026 as a cherry on top....by the end of 2023 you also know if Mims flourishes in a new environment or not, if Ruckert is more TE3/4 than potential TE2 and if Clemons level is Edge3 or Edge4 level; with the latter two still on rookie deals and costing next to nothing relatively.

If LOVE isn't the guy - you have four first rounders in the immediate two drafts if you need to package to go get a QB...and still have multiple Day 2s across the two as well.

 

[tynimiller]

Gute did in his latest interview/presser loosely say they want to know by FA (March 13th)...he didn't say a hard line but he did elude that is a pivotal part of what they're doing so would be nice to know.....Gute did say conversations haven't happened...so needless to say we learned a rough deadline of decision and that if Gute is being truthful the conversations haven't happened.

 

[Mondio]

Gute did in his latest interview/presser loosely say they want to know by FA (March 13th)...he didn't say a hard line but he did elude that is a pivotal part of what they're doing so would be nice to know.....Gute did say conversations haven't happened...so needless to say we learned a rough deadline of decision and that if Gute is being truthful the conversations haven't happened.

I listened to part of it in the car while running around. I heard that part, I also heard where he said he pays attention to what they talk abou personally and not the rest of the noise and speculation. Also said not having his decision isn't affecting their process, which has been my feeling when they have a 40 year old QB and traded up to draft his replacement 3 years ago. Said their approach to FA, draft etc is unchanged and moving forward like always. They've been preparing for the day that's coming sooner than later.

Did say at some point things will be happening regardless of a decision or lack of, basically because it's the NFL and things are always moving.

 

[tynimiller]

I listened to part of it in the car while running around. I heard that part, I also heard where he said he pays attention to what they talk abou personally and not the rest of the noise and speculation. Also said not having his decision isn't affecting their process, which has been my feeling when they have a 40 year old QB and traded up to draft his replacement 3 years ago. Said their approach to FA, draft etc is unchanged and moving forward like always. They've been preparing for the day that's coming sooner than later.

Did say at some point things will be happening regardless of a decision or lack of, basically because it's the NFL and things are always moving.

Yea I didn't unpack it all and heard all that too...which was odd because in one sense I think he cannot believe we are all stupid enough nor that he is stupid enough that no impact into decisions would occur by 12's decisions....UNLESS...the decision is made that they're moving on and really the only thing Aaron is struggling with and they need to touch base on is if he desires to come back and play without the pieces he would want, come back but be elsewhere or retire. I got the sense that GB's off season, FA, draft and such were not going to be changed by 12 - which tells me part of the decision has been made. Aaron knows what he is coming back to or what he isn't - GB's vision for 2023 I feel is set.

 

[OldSchool101]

Rodgers was actually great in the third quarter of that game, completing 15 of 18 passes for 123 yards and two TDs for a passer rating of 132.2. Of course you will continue to ignore it as the clock didn't show it was the fourth quarter for any of those plays.

Correct - because my point is Mr MVP has done the disappearing act in the 4th quarter of 3 consecutive home “playoff” losses. How he does in other quarters (or games) is irrelevant to that point.

Actually YOUR point is illuminating tho. The Bucs defense was hardly impenetrable… yet in the fourth quarter - with the game on the line - Mr Rodgers folded like cheap lawn furniture - ditto against SF and Det.

I want Rodgers to play as good as possible just like you. But he’s still part of a team. Many members of the three phases did not play their best. In these 3 contests their were an assortment of Dropped passes, Fumbles, Sacks, poor blocking, Poor decisions on ST, etc.. those all factored into not finishing with a Win.

Rodgers is not 11 people in 1. Contrary to the belief of our GM, he needs to be surrounded with talent on an ongoing basis. 2022 was an ill-timed attempt at giving him proper resources. Honestly, We had no business even being in the playoffs at 8-8. We were not anywhere close to the best team and defeating the Lions wouldn’t have changed us getting knocked out once we faced several playoff caliber teams. I could care less about beating the Lions, we would’ve been better off losing a game earlier and getting Love some reps in all honesty. Possibly would’ve had a top 10 draft selection right now. You and some others weren’t watching the same team I was watching last season or you wouldn’t be complaining about that Lions game. Do you really think we were built to play the Eagles at Philly?
I’m just being real, I don’t. There was 0.02131% chance we win a SB.

It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee. We can’t win without supplying our Offense with a couple of bonafide playmakers.

We have some good backup OL, but lower end starters. I have is 1 Veteran RT/RG at OL.

I also have us needing 1 more good veteran WR2-3 AND a legit receiving TE. We can likely get at minimum 1 of those 3 in the draft, possibly 2 if we aren’t afraid to move into a top 35-40 selection.

 

[Jayzee1981]

awww, you're cute.

As with every NFL team, it doesn't care what Hackett wants if the owner or GM want Rodgers.

I happen to think that story says nothing but sometimes Rodgers didn't like what Hackett wanted to introduce. Same as Hackett probably shot down some of Rodgers's stuff and Hackett and Rodgers probably told MLF why they did or didn't like certain concepts. If you disagree, and you legitimately want to have a debate about, come with something. Unless that's the best you have?

You don’t have debates. You’re ignorant to the very word. I don’t debate with people that think they’re always right and everyone else’s opinion is wrong. Gave up on you a long time ago. You’re purely entertainment for me now.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

I want Rodgers to play as good as possible just like you. But he’s still part of a team. Many members of the three phases did not play their best. In these 3 contests their were an assortment of Dropped passes, Fumbles, Sacks, poor blocking, Poor decisions on ST, etc.. those all factored into not finishing with a Win.

Rodgers is not 11 people in 1. Contrary to the belief of our GM, he needs to be surrounded with talent on an ongoing basis. 2022 was an ill-timed attempt at giving him proper resources. Honestly, We had no business even being in the playoffs at 8-8. We were not anywhere close to the best team and defeating the Lions wouldn’t have changed us getting knocked out once we faced several playoff caliber teams. I could care less about beating the Lions, we would’ve been better off losing a game earlier and getting Love some reps in all honesty. Possibly would’ve had a top 10 draft selection right now. You and some others weren’t watching the same team I was watching last season or you wouldn’t be complaining about that Lions game. Do you really think we were built to play the Eagles at Philly?
I’m just being real, I don’t. There was 0.02131% chance we win a SB.

It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee. We can’t win without supplying our Offense with a couple of bonafide playmakers, plus possibly another veteran RG/RT.

Now this is going to read bad in text, I'm curious about who we can get. IDK who we can afford to release, and then afford. The SW acquiring was awful, now some of the veterans are going to leave as we don't have the cap space for them all w/o some others taking a pay cut. I'd personally want to rework or cut DB, but then who else?

 

[Mondio]

You don’t have debates. You’re ignorant to the very word. I don’t debate with people that think they’re always right and everyone else’s opinion is wrong. Gave up on you a long time ago. You’re purely entertainment for me now.

so, that was the best you had.

 

[Jayzee1981]

so, that was the best you had.

Beats any of your crap

 

[tynimiller]

Beats any of your crap

Actually it doesn't, as you didn't actually present a counter thought. As most know me and @Mondio don't always agree on this whole thing but at least we espouse full thoughts to one another without childish troll shots. Come on man - you're better than this, or at least I think so.

 

[Mondio]

Beats any of your crap

Yes, I've been completely schooled. Thank you

 

[OldSchool101]

Now this is going to read bad in text, I'm curious about who we can get. IDK who we can afford to release, and then afford. The SW acquiring was awful, now some of the veterans are going to leave as we don't have the cap space for them all w/o some others taking a pay cut. I'd personally want to rework or cut DB, but then who else?

I’m not sure I understand your ? Correctly.
If it’s how do we afford to get a RT? Trade Jordan Love for a veteran starter. Love is a good option to start for a team and he’s like $3.3m against the cap. It’s an easy Day 2 trade equivalent. That’s enough trade equity and should get us 1 good Billy Turner type player in trade to fix our OL.

The other option is trade Love for a 2-3rd option at veteran WR. Possibly one also similarly on a Rookie deal, so it’s essentially an even swap against the Cap.

If we’re talking about a Rodgers trade, I think it pretty obvious we can get whomever we want and possibly attain several starting caliber players through direct trade or Draft picks.

 

[mradtke66]

I think you have proven you solely skim read comments...never said Ruckert never played at all last year. He missed some time not all, if memory serves five or six games and saw snaps immediately when back - you can research that.

I have just re-read your original comment about Rucket getting hurt. I think I parse what you are saying, but that sentence could use some wordsmitthing. I'm certainly fair from perfect, so don't take it as me throwing stones in a glass house, but it the sentence beginning "He was a do it all TE at OSU" is quite the run-on and I see why I misread it.

Your clarification here makes more sense. I dislike him slightly less.

Again...you're not showcasing your knowledge of opinions of guys,

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on players on other teams. What I do know is relative to the proximity to the Packers. Ergo, I know the most about our players, the next most about the other NFC North teams, then the rest of the NFC, etc.

The Jets on the whole are far away from the Packers in this context.

Mims was a guy that from all accounts our War Room thought highly of, simply didn't work out to come to us. Mims actually was one of the Packers pre-draft interviews/visits,

Sure, that's all possible, but he has thus far (apparently) flopped in the NFL. I know a little more about him due to the chatter around the Jets trying to trade him and well, let's be honest, our dire need for receiving talent. Nothing excites me about him. I wouldn't mind bringing him as a FA or waiver wire claim, but I wouldn't spend resources to get him.

Ruckert fits every category of need and desired TE play in the MLF system for one of our inline guys (he for sure has the promise of a TE2 in our system.

I don't disagree, my question is do the Packers? This is one of those more rhetorical kinds of questions. For all we know, the Packers failed him from their draft board for some reason. Or gave him something like a 6th round grade.

On the flip side, maybe they loved him and targeted him in the second before they went and got Watson. In which case, sure, great, Gute should see if he could work him into any such deal with the Jets.

On the other other side )) if the Jets want to win-now, why would they give up good players to help them win now?

Also you don't get the 2023 pick haul in the trade the situation outlined entails (the draft already would have occurred).

I will say again, my expression of the situation outlined is not in a manner of supporting the concept as my preferred - quite the contrary as it is not. I do however see a serious amount of merit to it in that it would be very attractive to a Jets team looking to win RIGHT NOW and we enter the offseason after 2023 knowing if Love if the answer or if he isn't:

My opinion is if Rodgers is on our roster after the draft, what motivation do we have to trade him? Ideally, Gute will have his answer from Rodgers before FA. The draft happens. While both operations should serve both today and next year, the "today" is different with or without Rodgers. It'd really kind of screw 2023 if the roster building up to June 1st assumes Rodgers is present, but then he's not come June 2nd.

 

[tynimiller]

My opinion is if Rodgers is on our roster after the draft, what motivation do we have to trade him? Ideally, Gute will have his answer from Rodgers before FA. The draft happens. While both operations should serve both today and next year, the "today" is different with or without Rodgers. It'd really kind of screw 2023 if the roster building up to June 1st assumes Rodgers is present, but then he's not come June 2nd.

From an acquiring teams' perspective - Rodgers is now cheaper on their cap, they didn't have to give up draft equity and for a window is now team those things would entice you to send Gute perhaps even more of a haul now in the 2024 and 2025 draft than you would have if you had to give up a lot before the 2023 draft and have a bigger cap hit.

From GB perspective - Cap hit less, and you are already in the Love test stage, tons of future assets is a massive insurance policy if he fails...and a smaller degree is you know how your draft went and perhaps you ask for different player types back to flesh out holes your draft didn't fill depth wise for a quick/cheap but possibly long term play fix.

There are reasons I can think of to like the concept, but there are negatives for sure as well:

From an acquiring team's perspective - Rodgers hesitancy (unless a post June 1st deal was agreed to but couldn't be enacted was already decided) is a massive red flag possibly, GB not forcing you to give up trade picks in 2023 (building a better team to add Rodgers to) is going to cost you hard in 2024 and 2025 drafts - is that too much to justify?

From GB perspective - Just take the cap hit medicine at once would have been better for 2024 cap hits (now you spread the hit of losing Rodgers), you get zero young draft picks immediately and have to wait...which could impact (no one could predict) Love's success depending on what you could have hit (or missed) had you traded prior to draft instead.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

I’m not sure I understand your ? Correctly.
If it’s how do we afford to get a RT? Trade Jordan Love for a veteran starter. Love is a good option to start for a team and he’s like $3.3m against the cap. It’s an easy Day 2 trade equivalent. That’s enough trade equity and should get us 1 good Billy Turner type player in trade to fix our OL.

The other option is trade Love for a 2-3rd option at veteran WR. Possibly one also similarly on a Rookie deal, so it’s essentially an even swap against the Cap.

If we’re talking about a Rodgers trade, I think it pretty obvious we can get whomever we want and possibly attain several starting caliber players through direct trade or Draft picks.

Sorry as I thought that would be confusing to say the least, but trading Love is the option you give? He's on a rookie contract, I don't think most GM's look at trading QB's on rookie contracts (that they moved up to draft) for veteran OL players. Unless it's for a great to all-time great OL player. Now if you are saying that JL needs to go, that's different, but this would be IMO a terrible decision to make NOW. The GM traded a lot to draft him, and now trading him says "I was very wrong, and maybe not qualified for this job".

 

[OldSchool101]

Sorry as I thought that would be confusing to say the least, but trading Love is the option you give? He's on a rookie contract, I don't think most GM's look at trading QB's on rookie contracts (that they moved up to draft) for veteran OL players. Unless it's for a great to all-time great OL player. Now if you are saying that JL needs to go, that's different, but this would be IMO a terrible decision to make NOW. The GM traded a lot to draft him, and now trading him says "I was very wrong, and maybe not qualified for this job".

I agree about that. However most teams also don’t draft a QB in Day1 and then sit him 4 seasons. Can you think of a QB drafted in Round 1 that sat his entire Rookie contract?
I can’t.

This is unchartered territory if Rodgers stays. I fully expect us to trade Jordan based on his request to be traded. Maybe Jordan doesn’t want to play? Idk

 

[tynimiller]

I agree about that. However most teams also don’t draft a QB in Day1 and then sit him 4 seasons. Can you think of a QB that sat his entire Rookie contract? I can’t.

This is unchartered territory if Rodgers stays. I fully expect us to trade Jordan based on his request to be traded. Maybe Jordan doesn’t want to play? Idk

That “request” was merely rumored and not confirmed by the team, him or agent. Unless I missed a news break in the last hour

 

[AKCheese]

If Green Bay “holds out” for much more than a first and a third plus maybe a throw in player or two, they’ll never move him IMO. If we can get that 1st and third… do it!! Like YESTERDAY!

 

[OldSchool101]

If Green Bay “holds out” for much more than a first and a third plus maybe a throw in player or two, they’ll never move him IMO. If we can get that 1st and third… do it!! Like YESTERDAY!

I agree with you on that. In that scenario, depending on the order of team trading. I might expect another Day 2 selection in 2024 even after that. A team wanting Rodgers won’t lose him over a future top 50-75 type selection or equivalent trading rounds etc imo.

Personally I’d push some draft
capital, like using that 2018 draft philosophy across the 2023 and ‘24 drafts. If that goes down it leaves a very nice Contingency plan.
A top 10 type overall selection (if Love flounders) plus a later Day 1 packaged together makes things very interesting if we want to take another stab at QB
.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

I agree about that. However most teams also don’t draft a QB in Day1 and then sit him 4 seasons. Can you think of a QB that sat his entire Rookie contract? I can’t.

This is unchartered territory if Rodgers stays. I fully expect us to trade Jordan based on his request to be traded. Maybe Jordan doesn’t want to play? Idk

Which is why I don't want them to waste the pick. This is shaping up to be a massive waste of the GBP traded up to draft him and we never see what he can do (I'm sorry 3 preseason games, 1 regular season game, and some garbage time is not enough). We have JL's 4th year left, and if he never becomes the starter does anyone think they'll exercise his 5th year option? If so, then Gute better just hand in his walking papers at the start of the season.

 

[OldSchool101]

That “request” was merely rumored and not confirmed by the team, him or agent. Unless I missed a news break in the last hour

It doesn’t need to be verified. I just cannot imagine a Day 1 QB waiting 5 years to “hope” to play. Jordan is losing very valuable time and potentially tens of millions of dollars if he continues to not be given a chance to start.

Which is why I don't want them to waste the pick. This is shaping up to be a massive waste of the GBP traded up to draft him and we never see what he can do (I'm sorry 3 preseason games, 1 regular season game, and some garbage time is not enough). We have JL's 4th year left, and if he never becomes the starter does anyone think they'll exercise his 5th year option? If so, then Gute better just hand in his walking papers at the start of the season.

It’s my opinion that as long as #12 decides to want to play and is open to a trade scenario? We trade him and build around Love.

Unfortunately, another scenario (and however unlikely) with Rodgers and this business as usual approach? is only going to continue a repeat of last season. To stay, Rodgers would need to restructure into a $35m-$40m area across 3 seasons. We’d need to make his contract highly punitive if he doesn’t play all 3 seasons. The offset for him would be security with one team. Plus a firm commitment to finally furnish him with some Offensive weapons, including Day 1 help this season. Maybe a Large SB $$$
as a bonus.

Now I’m fully aware it’s a very low probability #12 would agree to take that Avenue. However as a GM, it’s where I’d need to get to in order to offset some serious financial risk, allow us proper resources to surround Aaron with a couple dynamic playmakers (including the draft) and thirdly, it would give us security that we won’t do this stupid year to year circus and keep causing these distractions.

 

[longtimefan]

That “request” was merely rumored and not confirmed by the team, him or agent. Unless I missed a news break in the last hour

Jason wilde suggesting it...I dont think Jason would toss that out if it didn't have meat on it

 

[tynimiller]

Jason wilde suggesting it...I dont think Jason would toss that out if it didn't have meat on it

I also don’t disagree but I think it was more “I would like to discuss that depending on future plans”….I could see a fifth year tag buying Jordan’s patience possibly.