Is it time?

Release or trade

  • Keep

    Votes: 11 22.9%
  • Realease or trade

    Votes: 29 60.4%
  • Retire

    Votes: 8 16.7%

  • Total voters
    48
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longtimefan

longtimefan

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I know this is a little off topic, but KC's QB just threw 3 TDs in the 2nd half (on a re-injured ankle), what the heck is our problem? 2 SB wins in the past 4 years, and the best comeback we can muster is the MVP's? PM now has 2 MVP's, 2SB MVP's, and now 2 SB's. We can talk about supporting cast, but this is a thread about our QB. I love AR, but IMO, his time has passed. I'm tired of watching other QBs playing in the SB, and the best we can say is, "we'll be there next year", or "look at the MVP's. We're the GBP ******, we won the first 2 SB's, I say it's time for another one, or two, or three...
We have heard about a knee vs Seattle..yet prior game vs Dallas he played great.

Pat had horrible ankle last 2 games.

Who were Pat's starting wr? Last 2 games? Other than MVS

They lost a top wr and got better. That could be all on coaching tho

It is time to move on..this team isnt ready to go to the SB so why keep him around? Trade to get something back now
 

Cornelius Weems

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I'm going to sugar coat it, we're going to suffer, probably for a while. KC was a running punchline that looked like stepping stool for everyone else. Heck, remember when the Bucs were an expansion team that looked like they might never win a playoff game? I know moving on would really suck for a while, but wasting everything we spent on JL to see him never take over for more than just a game (playing in the preseason doesn't count) would speak volumes for our front office.
 
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Just for the record, Rodgers counted $28.5 million towards the cap last season. That's the number you need to be looking at.
No it’s not. Teams need to look at the entirety of the contract including guaranteed money. That cap is merely a shell game and you know it. Unless, of course, you can show me how we can walk away from Rodgers contract Scott free? Rodgers guaranteed will punish this team with or without him.
Well, that statement has been proved to be correct over and over again.
Pat was the MVP when it matters most, the SB. Regular season accolades are for teams like the Lions. This franchise is far too good to stoop to the scraps of regular season accolades when the entire meal is available.
I don’t care about Regular season MVP I care about winning SB and you can keep your regular season MVPs.
Since winning the Super Bowl back in 2019 Mahomes is 17-of-30 (56.7% completion percentage) for 194 yards, zero touchdowns and two interceptions for a passer rating of 48.5 in the fourth quarter of playoff losses. Should the Chiefs move on from him because of it???
??? You make it sound like it’s ok for Rodgers to perform poorly because Patrick Mahomes performs poorly in postseason which just shows how far you’ll go to defend Rodgers.
To defend Mahomes in his previous Super Bowl his team in 2019 he was down by 10 points approaching the 4th quarter (2min) and he won by +11. That also included another pair of 4th Qtr TD’s. Mahomes just understands how to carry his team and he doesn’t make excuses.

That’s 4 passing TD’s in the 4th Qtr in the 2 of the 3 SB’s Pat’s played in (2019,2022).
That’s not a guy I’d pick on to show how poorly he played in 4th quarter in postseason.
 
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I’m sure you can also come up with excuses for his chokes in the 4th quarter against SF and Detroit in successive years.

Once again, it's a team sport. Once again I suggest you take a minute and watch the play on which Rodgers was intercepted against the Lions and focus on Dillon on the play. If you have the ability to fairly evaluate that play there's no way the quarterback deserves blame for it.

I know this is a little off topic, but KC's QB just threw 3 TDs in the 2nd half (on a re-injured ankle), what the heck is our problem? 2 SB wins in the past 4 years, and the best comeback we can muster is the MVP's? PM now has 2 MVP's, 2SB MVP's, and now 2 SB's. We can talk about supporting cast, but this is a thread about our QB. I love AR, but IMO, his time has passed. I'm tired of watching other QBs playing in the SB, and the best we can say is, "we'll be there next year", or "look at the MVP's. We're the GBP ******, we won the first 2 SB's, I say it's time for another one, or two, or three...

It doesn't make any sense to ignore the supporting cast when evaluating a quarterback's performance. Did you actually watch those two touchdown passes Mahomes threw in the second half? On both of them the Eagles completely messed up their coverage as they focused on Kelce, leaving the receivers wide, wide open on short throws. In addition it helped that Toney returned the punt to the 5-yard line on the second TD as well.

With that being said there's absolutely no doubt I would prefer having Mahomes over Rodgers as well. That shouldn't come as a surprise as he's not turning 28 years old until the start of next season while Rodgers is 39 years old.

No it’s not. Teams need to look at the entirety of the contract including guaranteed money. That cap is merely a shell game and you know it. Unless, of course, you can show me how we can walk away from Rodgers contract Scott free? Rodgers guaranteed will punish this team with or without him.

It's true that teams need to consider the total amount of cap space allocated to a player but the cap hit in a specific season is the most important number to look at. It should be obvious that once the Packers move on from Rodgers the following season will all but guaranteed end up as a rebuilding one anyway, therefore it's a smart approach to use that one to righten the cap situation.

I don’t care about Regular season MVP I care about winning SB and you can keep your regular season MVPs.

I definitely agree with that. That doesn't mean Rodgers' performance in the 2020 and '21 season should be ignored though.

You make it sound like it’s ok for Rodgers to perform poorly because Patrick Mahomes performs poorly in postseason which just shows how far you’ll go to defend Rodgers.

It should have worked as evidence that every elite quarterback in the league struggles in the fourth quarter against good defenses from time to time.
 

Sunshinepacker

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We have heard about a knee vs Seattle..yet prior game vs Dallas he played great.

Pat had horrible ankle last 2 games.

Who were Pat's starting wr? Last 2 games? Other than MVS

They lost a top wr and got better. That could be all on coaching tho

It is time to move on..this team isnt ready to go to the SB so why keep him around? Trade to get something back now

KC has this guy named Kelce...maybe you've heard of him? Best receiving TE in the league?
 

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I was going to say, most of that should be evidence to people that even the greats struggle at times. I have a feeling if the Eagles D was more than just a Dline that was able to unleash against lesser QB's playing from behind all season long nobody would have said much about them. they certainly weren't anywhere near that 2014 Seattle team that was dominate at every single level and played that way. The eagles pass rush last nigh was largely negated.

What Mahomes did last night was fun to watch. I thoroughly enjoyed watching him. But he almost threw a game changing pick last night too early on. he had guys running wide open, those TD's were great play designs and so wide open I could have hit them. He played great, but when was the last time Rodgers had something like that? You can say it's making excuses for Rodgers, but seriously, I can hardly remember 2 TD's that wide open all season and KC did it twice in the same game.

I'll bring up that last game against detroit. 4 plays resulted at a minimum 12 less offensive plays for Rodgers to run with this offense because people didn't just catch the ball in their hands. Don't think that's significant? How many plays did KC or Philly have last night that were huge and resulted in more plays vs dropping it and resulting in a punt? If it wasn't zero it was damn close.

Even that first TD by Hurts, that ball should have been picked. There wasn't much good about it. It was just thrown to a spot in double coverage and it was all Brown adjusting his route 3 times on the route to turn the defender around then be able to still go get the ball. That was all WR and some of those things fans just don't seem to see. If he just runs to the spot like our young guys do, the defender is right there. We have zero weapons like that or even close on our team.
 

Cornelius Weems

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Some just want to keep him based on what we lost before this season (thinking he'll bounce back) or maybe it's based on what he has done in the past, either way, he's 39 about to enter the '23-24 season with probably the same (core) WR corps as the last season. Our QB is due $58+ million and we'll probably lose some key pieces to FA. If he retires, he's still due the $58+ million by the GBP. Why, keep him around again? Is it based on his past? Are you afraid of what it will be like when he's gone? Because I hate to break it to you, that's inevitable. Some of us want to look to the future now, some want to stay strapped to him for one or more seasons. Time is inevitable and this franchise will always be more than one player to me, and that's because this is a franchise. Again, for the GBP's, it's time.
 

Mondio

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While I do believe he can still be very good if we fix our Oline and get another playmaker on board, I do not think keeping him is in the best interest of the team beyond maybe this year and that would only be IF the line is fixed, we get a playmaker and then we still have the issue of our D coordinator to contend with.

It hurts enough going forward and it only hurts more in the future if he stays this year. it's not something i'm looking forward to.

Ideally I'd like to get some good draft picks and see what happens. I'm not going to bang my fists though if he's back. If they actually fix that RT and our oline and get someone in here to make some plays we'll have a shot again.
 

AKCheese

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Probably because they would only be evaluating him on 25% of the game.
The truly great ones step up in crunch time. The stats are there. Rodgers is a great thrower of the football. Maybe even a great QB, until the big game is on the line. Then he comes up short or worse. The numbers tell the story
 

Krabs

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Our QB is due $58+ million and we'll probably lose some key pieces to FA. If he retires, he's still due the $58+ million by the GBP.
This is inaccurate. If Rodgers retires he is walking away from $60 million. The Packers owe him nothing. He would then become a cap hit of $40 million against the Packers cap. This $40 million can be paid over the course of two season. In 2023 and 2024 he would be a cap hit of $20 million. This is the same if he is traded. This is because the Packers did some moving of money around and already paid Rodgers this amount. If he stays and plays this season his cap hit is $31.6 million.

If I'm wrong about this please let me know. I would like to know the specifics.
 

Cornelius Weems

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While I do believe he can still be very good if we fix our Oline and get another playmaker on board, I do not think keeping him is in the best interest of the team beyond maybe this year and that would only be IF the line is fixed, we get a playmaker and then we still have the issue of our D coordinator to contend with.

It hurts enough going forward and it only hurts more in the future if he stays this year. it's not something i'm looking forward to.

Ideally I'd like to get some good draft picks and see what happens. I'm not going to bang my fists though if he's back. If they actually fix that RT and our oline and get someone in here to make some plays we'll have a shot again.
This makes a good amount of sense to me. He had one of his worst seasons and I think they can get a lot in return for him still. I always look a our glaring holes, especially in the DC department. If nothing else, and they keep him, there's a lot to fix, but we'll have almost no cap space to do so. I think the cap is very obviously what will need to be addressed next (after the QB situation is figured out).
 

Krabs

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This makes a good amount of sense to me. He had one of his worst seasons and I think they can get a lot in return for him still. I always look a our glaring holes, especially in the DC department. If nothing else, and they keep him, there's a lot to fix, but we'll have almost no cap space to do so. I think the cap is very obviously what will need to be addressed next (after the QB situation is figured out).
There's a lot of ways to free up money and keep Rodgers. First, cut or renegotiate Bakh's contract. That frees up a ton of money. Same with Jones. He's a huge hit. P. Smith could go or be renegotiated. Re-sign Gary and kick some money down the road. There's still a lot of moves that can be made.
 

Cornelius Weems

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This is inaccurate. If Rodgers retires he is walking away from $60 million. The Packers owe him nothing. He would then become a cap hit of $40 million against the Packers cap. This $40 million can be paid over the course of two season. In 2023 and 2024 he would be a cap hit of $20 million. This is the same if he is traded. This is because the Packers did some moving of money around and already paid Rodgers this amount. If he stays and plays this season his cap hit is $31.6 million.

If I'm wrong about this please let me know. I would like to know the specifics.
This is what I could find online:
In 2023, Rodgers will earn a base salary of $1,165,000, a signing bonus of $58,300,000 and a workout bonus of $50,000, while carrying a cap hit of $31,623,568 and a dead cap value of $99,778,568.
That's what I could find online. So in the end, he'll make over $60 million, if he learns every game check, so, maybe. I tried to find a more reliable source, but they only posted a flat rate and never broke it down.
 

tynimiller

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This is inaccurate. If Rodgers retires he is walking away from $60 million. The Packers owe him nothing. He would then become a cap hit of $40 million against the Packers cap. This $40 million can be paid over the course of two season. In 2023 and 2024 he would be a cap hit of $20 million. This is the same if he is traded. This is because the Packers did some moving of money around and already paid Rodgers this amount. If he stays and plays this season his cap hit is $31.6 million.

If I'm wrong about this please let me know. I would like to know the specifics.

It's been laid out before:

So if Rodgers retires:

-He forfeits all his rights to the $59.465M in guaranteed salary for next year.
As for cap hit to Packers:
-They could take roughly a hit of $40,313,000 in 2023 but be DONE with any Rodgers cap hit into the future after that
OR
-They could spread the hit amongst two years in some capacity which has rumored different numbers (article at end of post expresses some).

If they trade Rodgers:

If prior to June 1 - the Packers take the $40.313M hit in 2023. If after June 1 it would be roughly $15.8M in 2023 and $24.5 in 2024.
IF the Packers trade Rodgers many (myself included) do not see a world where Gute doesn't want immediate draft equity...which means the Post June 1st option simply isn't going to happen.

Retire or trade I predict the cap number will be that $40M one this year.

 

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While I do believe he can still be very good if we fix our Oline and get another playmaker on board, I do not think keeping him is in the best interest of the team beyond maybe this year and that would only be IF the line is fixed, we get a playmaker and then we still have the issue of our D coordinator to contend with.

It hurts enough going forward and it only hurts more in the future if he stays this year. it's not something i'm looking forward to.

Ideally I'd like to get some good draft picks and see what happens. I'm not going to bang my fists though if he's back. If they actually fix that RT and our oline and get someone in here to make some plays we'll have a shot again.
At this point in his career he needs a better team around him than he has presently. It was fun and sad at the same time watching the Eagles' and Chiefs' run their routes, not drop the ball and YAC. No matter if he returns or we trade him and start Love either QB will need better playmakers around him for us to succeed going forward.
 

Krabs

I take offense to that sir.
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It's been laid out before:

So if Rodgers retires:

-He forfeits all his rights to the $59.465M in guaranteed salary for next year.
As for cap hit to Packers:
-They could take roughly a hit of $40,313,000 in 2023 but be DONE with any Rodgers cap hit into the future after that
OR
-They could spread the hit amongst two years in some capacity which has rumored different numbers (article at end of post expresses some).
Pretty much what I said and understood. Cap is a tricky thing though.
If they trade Rodgers:

If prior to June 1 - the Packers take the $40.313M hit in 2023. If after June 1 it would be roughly $15.8M in 2023 and $24.5 in 2024.
IF the Packers trade Rodgers many (myself included) do not see a world where Gute doesn't want immediate draft equity...which means the Post June 1st option simply isn't going to happen.

Retire or trade I predict the cap number will be that $40M one this year.
Why wouldn't they spread it out over two years?
 

pacmaniac

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It doesn't make any sense to ignore the supporting cast when evaluating a quarterback's performance. Did you actually watch those two touchdown passes Mahomes threw in the second half? On both of them the Eagles completely messed up their coverage as they focused on Kelce, leaving the receivers wide, wide open on short throws. In addition it helped that Toney returned the punt to the 5-yard line on the second TD as well.
The Packers supporting cast got it done against the Bucs. Lazard was wide open running into the end zone and Rodgers missed him. MVS was also had 1-2 steps on his defender and Rodgers underthrew him - that was the throw that Rodgers said he would like to have back.
 
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Some just want to keep him based on what we lost before this season (thinking he'll bounce back) or maybe it's based on what he has done in the past, either way, he's 39 about to enter the '23-24 season with probably the same (core) WR corps as the last season. Our QB is due $58+ million and we'll probably lose some key pieces to FA. If he retires, he's still due the $58+ million by the GBP. Why, keep him around again? Is it based on his past? Are you afraid of what it will be like when he's gone? Because I hate to break it to you, that's inevitable. Some of us want to look to the future now, some want to stay strapped to him for one or more seasons. Time is inevitable and this franchise will always be more than one player to me, and that's because this is a franchise. Again, for the GBP's, it's time.

As I have said on several occasions I believe it's the smart move for the Packers to trade Rodgers this offseason based on how his contract is structured.

I hate to break it for you, but there's a decent chance the team won't be able to find another HOF quarterback for a very long time though. Therefore I'm not looking forward to the day Rodgers isn't on the team anymore.

The truly great ones step up in crunch time. The stats are there. Rodgers is a great thrower of the football. Maybe even a great QB, until the big game is on the line. Then he comes up short or worse. The numbers tell the story

Yes, the numbers tell the story, but actually not one that you want us to believe. Among the 32 quarterbacks with the most attempts in the fourth quarter of a playoff game since 2000 (I chose that year as it was Brady's first in the league) Rodgers ranks fourth in passer rating at 103.3. The only ones ranked above him are Kurt Warner (an insane 126.8), Jake Delhomme (117.4) and Patrick Mahomes (110.9).

He ranks significantly above the GOAT Brady (83.0), Peyton (81.7) and Favre (54.3) over that period.

This is inaccurate. If Rodgers retires he is walking away from $60 million. The Packers owe him nothing. He would then become a cap hit of $40 million against the Packers cap. This $40 million can be paid over the course of two season. In 2023 and 2024 he would be a cap hit of $20 million. This is the same if he is traded. This is because the Packers did some moving of money around and already paid Rodgers this amount. If he stays and plays this season his cap hit is $31.6 million.

If I'm wrong about this please let me know. I would like to know the specifics.

You're a bit off about how the cap hits would work out if spread out over the next two seasons as the Packers would take a $15.8 million cap hit in 2023 and another $24.5 million in '24. That's only an option if those moves are made after June 1 though.

There's a lot of ways to free up money and keep Rodgers. First, cut or renegotiate Bakh's contract. That frees up a ton of money. Same with Jones. He's a huge hit. P. Smith could go or be renegotiated. Re-sign Gary and kick some money down the road. There's still a lot of moves that can be made.

While the Packers could save significant cap space by renegotiating the contracts of Bakhtiari and Preston the team releasing them would hardly result in a ton of it.

So if Rodgers retires:

They could spread the hit amongst two years in some capacity which has rumored different numbers (article at end of post expresses some).

The numbers are pretty straightforward if Rodgers files his retirement papers after June 1. The Packers would take a cap hit of $15,833,568 (the prorated portion of his various signing bonuses for the 2023 season) this year as well as one of $24,480,000 in '24 (the remaining prorated portion of the signing bonus he received last year).

The Packers supporting cast got it done against the Bucs. Lazard was wide open running into the end zone and Rodgers missed him. MVS was also had 1-2 steps on his defender and Rodgers underthrew him - that was the throw that Rodgers said he would like to have back.

First of all, every quarterback in the entire league misses some open receivers from time to time or has some bad throws during a game. While Rodgers didn't play a perfect game vs. the Bucs he had a pretty good game in the 2020 NFCCG but other factors hugely contributed to that loss. Therefore I completely disagree his supporting cast got it done in that game.
 

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Some just want to keep him based on what we lost before this season (thinking he'll bounce back) or maybe it's based on what he has done in the past, either way, he's 39 about to enter the '23-24 season with probably the same (core) WR corps as the last season. Our QB is due $58+ million and we'll probably lose some key pieces to FA. If he retires, he's still due the $58+ million by the GBP. Why, keep him around again? Is it based on his past? Are you afraid of what it will be like when he's gone? Because I hate to break it to you, that's inevitable. Some of us want to look to the future now, some want to stay strapped to him for one or more seasons. Time is inevitable and this franchise will always be more than one player to me, and that's because this is a franchise. Again, for the GBP's, it's time.

I get that his cost is exorbitant and that this team, right now, is not positioned to make use of a QB being paid that highly; this team is rebuilding and rebuilding around an aging, expensive QB doesn't make much sense. Trying to argue that his performance, when healthy, hasn't seen him play like a top-5 QB in the NFL (actually top-1 but I'll give some leeway) doesn't make sense. He played with a terrible receiver room and with a broken thumb last season so, unless you want to contend that he'll break his thumb again AND have two rookies as his main receivers, I don't understand using last season as some of kind of baseline for projecting his performance going forward.
 

Krabs

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You're a bit off about how the cap hits would work out if spread out over the next two seasons as the Packers would take a $15.8 million cap hit in 2023 and another $24.5 million in '24. That's only an option if those moves are made after June 1 though.
Yes, I did miss that part. My point was that it's dead money against the cap and the Packers would owe nothing to Rodgers. The clarifications is appreciated though. As I said, the cap is a tricky thing with a lot of different scenarios and rules.
While the Packers could save significant cap space by renegotiating the contracts of Bakhtiari and Preston the team releasing them would hardly result in a ton of it.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but Over The Cap says they would save $21 million in cap space next season by cutting Bakh. They would also take a cap hit of $11 million in dead money. That move alone gets them under the cap. I'm not saying I'm in favor of this. Even with his injury issues I think he is worth keeping. I'd much rather see a renegotiation.
 

tynimiller

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Yes, I did miss that part. My point was that it's dead money against the cap and the Packers would owe nothing to Rodgers. The clarifications is appreciated though. As I said, the cap is a tricky thing with a lot of different scenarios and rules.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but Over The Cap says they would save $21 million in cap space next season by cutting Bakh. They would also take a cap hit of $11 million in dead money. That move alone gets them under the cap. I'm not saying I'm in favor of this. Even with his injury issues I think he is worth keeping. I'd much rather see a renegotiation.

You're looking at the wrong year. That would be the savings if all stayed the same and we cut him before the 2024 year.
 

Krabs

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You're looking at the wrong year. That would be the savings if all stayed the same and we cut him before the 2024 year.
Yep, you are correct. The savings would only be $17 million this next year and cutting him would still get us under the cap.
 
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