Improving the Defense for 2017....How and Who?

[rodell330]

Well, the Packers finished 2012 with the 10th most opposing pass attempts as well as 11th in '14. The team (20th) only ranked in the bottom half of the league in that category in '15.

Yep.

 

[Pkrjones]

I think defensive speed is extremely important, as highlighted in Quinn's immediate upgrades to faster D players (except trench guys). They started fast, yet smaller LB's who played lights-out in the first half but got worn down in the 2nd half.

I'm not advocating for 220 lb LB's but team speed is a must. Why did TT/MM keep a "developmental" CB on the 53 who runs 4.69 40? No matter how good, physcal, smart he is he'll never have the necessary recovery speed. TT doesn't like CB's shorter than 5'-11" and shies away from smaller guys.
How about no more:
CB's slower than 4.50? Safeties slower than 4.60? LB's slower than 4.7 and less than 235 lb? DE's less than 300 lbs? NT's less than 320? OLB's less than 260 lbs. or slower than 4.7?

The coaches can't teach speed or size, so why draft guys that are too slow or too small for their intended position (D. Jones at 280 playing DE?). Put big guys where you need big guys. Put fast guys where you need fast guys. Can it be this simple?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think defensive speed is extremely important, as highlighted in Quinn's immediate upgrades to faster D players (except trench guys). They started fast, yet smaller LB's who played lights-out in the first half but got worn down in the 2nd half.

I'm not advocating for 220 lb LB's but team speed is a must. Why did TT/MM keep a "developmental" CB on the 53 who runs 4.69 40? No matter how good, physcal, smart he is he'll never have the necessary recovery speed. TT doesn't like CB's shorter than 5'-11" and shies away from smaller guys.
How about no more:
CB's slower than 4.50? Safeties slower than 4.60? LB's slower than 4.7 and less than 235 lb? DE's less than 300 lbs? NT's less than 320? OLB's less than 260 lbs. or slower than 4.7?

The coaches can't teach speed or size, so why draft guys that are too slow or too small for their intended position (D. Jones at 280 playing DE?). Put big guys where you need big guys. Put fast guys where you need fast guys. Can it be this simple?

It's possible to field an elite defense with undersized players as well as long as they are extremely talented.

 

[Dantés]

I think defensive speed is extremely important, as highlighted in Quinn's immediate upgrades to faster D players (except trench guys). They started fast, yet smaller LB's who played lights-out in the first half but got worn down in the 2nd half.

I'm not advocating for 220 lb LB's but team speed is a must. Why did TT/MM keep a "developmental" CB on the 53 who runs 4.69 40? No matter how good, physcal, smart he is he'll never have the necessary recovery speed. TT doesn't like CB's shorter than 5'-11" and shies away from smaller guys.
How about no more:
CB's slower than 4.50? Safeties slower than 4.60? LB's slower than 4.7 and less than 235 lb? DE's less than 300 lbs? NT's less than 320? OLB's less than 260 lbs. or slower than 4.7?

The coaches can't teach speed or size, so why draft guys that are too slow or too small for their intended position (D. Jones at 280 playing DE?). Put big guys where you need big guys. Put fast guys where you need fast guys. Can it be this simple?

But if one set their minimums for CB speed at 4.50, they would completely taken themselves out of the running for Richard Sherman, Casey Hayward, Marcus Peters, Brandon Flowers, Sean Smith, Josh Norman, Logan Ryan, Malcolm Butler, Bashaud Breeland, Joe Haden, among others.

Is that really what we want the Packers to do?

I think size/speed needs to be considered heavily, but you also much keep yourself open to taking guys that don't fit the mold so that you don't miss out on special talent.

Case in point, Grady Jarrett. The Falcons got him in the fifth round because he was undersized for a DT coming out of Clemson. Had them rigidly committed to minimums, they would have missed out on a stud who just sacked Tom Brady 3 times in the Super Bowl.

 

[Mavster]

But if one set their minimums for CB speed at 4.50, they would completely taken themselves out of the running for Richard Sherman, Casey Hayward, Marcus Peters, Brandon Flowers, Sean Smith, Josh Norman, Logan Ryan, Malcolm Butler, Bashaud Breeland, Joe Haden, among others.

Is that really what we want the Packers to do?

I think size/speed needs to be considered heavily, but you also much keep yourself open to taking guys that don't fit the mold so that you don't miss out on special talent.

Case in point, Grady Jarrett. The Falcons got him in the fifth round because he was undersized for a DT coming out of Clemson. Had them rigidly committed to minimums, they would have missed out on a stud who just sacked Tom Brady 3 times in the Super Bowl.

Committed to minimums such as drafting "Packer people", or Pac-12 players on defense?

 

[Dantés]

Committed to minimums such as drafting "Packer people", or Pac-12 players on defense?

I don't know what "Packer People" are. If that means "people who this organization wants to draft," then I'm good with it because, by and large, this FO has been very good in the draft.

I am completely mystified that people want to sign off on drafting from the PAC12. Realize that every major conference produces busts. Writing one off because the Packers have been in that boat a couple times is lunacy. The NFL has tons of great players that came out of the PAC12.

The two biggest busts of the TT era were both SEC players. Justin Harrell played at Tennessee and Derek Sherrod played at Mississippi State. Should they avoid the SEC?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No surprise that Cleveland released Tramon Williams and his $7.4 M cap hit for 2017.

While he isn't an answer for the secondary in the way of starters, I wouldn't mind seeing Tramon signed for close to veteran min and very few guarantees. Sounds like he is interested in finishing his career at S, kick his tires and see if his knowledge of Capers system, team chemistry and veteran leadership is a good fit for 2017.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

No surprise that Cleveland released Tramon Williams and his $7.4 M cap hit for 2017.

While he isn't an answer for the secondary in the way of starters, I wouldn't mind seeing Tramon signed for close to veteran min and very few guarantees. Sounds like he is interested in finishing his career at S, kick his tires and see if his knowledge of Capers system, team chemistry and veteran leadership is a good fit for 2017.

I think that money would be better spent on keeping hyde.

On that note. What do you think hyde would cost? Because that money might have to go to a big fa cb maybe...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

No surprise that Cleveland released Tramon Williams and his $7.4 M cap hit for 2017.

While he isn't an answer for the secondary in the way of starters, I wouldn't mind seeing Tramon signed for close to veteran min and very few guarantees. Sounds like he is interested in finishing his career at S, kick his tires and see if his knowledge of Capers system, team chemistry and veteran leadership is a good fit for 2017.

The Packers don´t need a starting safety with Burnett and Clinton-Dix under contract though but absolutely have to upgrade the talent level at outside cornerback. I don´t believe Williams still has enough left in the tank to provide that improvement.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers don´t need a starting safety with Burnett and Clinton-Dix under contract though but absolutely have to upgrade the talent level at outside cornerback. I don´t believe Williams still has enough left in the tank to provide that improvement.

I wasn't looking at Tramon Williams as a starter. Low pay, depth to bring veteran leadership and experience. If Hyde isn't resigned, Burnett and Dix sit alone in that department at S. As we saw in 2016, injuries can suddenly expose any position and reduce it to young inexperienced guys.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I wasn't looking at Tramon Williams as a starter. Low pay, depth to bring veteran leadership and experience. If Hyde isn't resigned, Burnett and Dix sit alone in that department at S. As we saw in 2016, injuries can suddenly expose any position and reduce it to young inexperienced guys.

I would prefer to re-sign Hyde over bringing back Tramon but understand it will take more money to make it happen though.

 

[Dantés]

With the releases, Spotrac officially has the Packers with 43.58M in cap space, which is good for 13th most. They may be done, but if they needed/wanted more the main source would be Clay Matthews. He will count 15M against the cap this coming season, and cutting him would save 10.9M. A restructure, or even a release and resigning a la A.J. Hawk would not be surprising.

But the good news is that the Packers have all the room they need to keep the guys they want and still make gains in free agency.

 

[Arthur Squires]

I think that money would be better spent on keeping hyde.

On that note. What do you think hyde would cost? Because that money might have to go to a big fa cb maybe...

I agree with you about Hyde. His versatility may warrant another team to pay more for him than TT wants to. That is what worries me would TT pay him 5yr20mil if Dallas does or Miami?

 

[PackerDNA]

I agree with you about Hyde. His versatility may warrant another team to pay more for him than TT wants to. That is what worries me would TT pay him 5yr20mil if Dallas does or Miami?

That's about the range I figured on.

 

[Dantés]

Expect Hyde to merit something in the neighborhood of Hayward's deal with the Chargers (3/15) with a bump for the cap increase. I would guess he ends up somewhere in the 5.5M/season range. On a five year deal, that would be about 28M.

 

[PackerFanLV]

I think that money would be better spent on keeping hyde.

I think tramon is better then hyde faster stronger and smarter, better tackler jump higher and better instincts. I can see tramon excelling in a hyde type of role/position but as far as money is involved I wouldnt give tramon 7 mil no way.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think tramon is better then hyde faster stronger and smarter, better tackler jump higher and better instincts. I can see tramon excelling in a hyde type of role/position but as far as money is involved I wouldnt give tramon 7 mil no way.

Williams was a better player than Hyde in his prime but isn't anymore as age has caught up to him.

 

[PackerFanLV]

Williams was a better player than Hyde in his prime but isn't anymore as age has caught up to him.

Idk man, If you put tramon in a role like hyde where he is holding a TE or a teams 3rd or 4th receiver in the slot tramon i think can do some things and hes a good tackler and instinctive very important. If your in shape you just dont lose speed like that i bet you tramon can still out run every db on the packers current roster. I think for the right price it could be a move worth it only in a hyde type role tho. Oakland thought woodson was finished also and packers was the only team that wanted woodson but he excelled, same with Peppers he played better in greenbay than he did with the bears. I think tramon still have some left in the tank he just went to the wrong team like the browns come on man. For the right price i would give tramon a chance.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Idk man, If you put tramon in a role like hyde where he is holding a TE or a teams 3rd or 4th receiver in the slot tramon i think can do some things and hes a good tackler and instinctive very important. If your in shape you just dont lose speed like that i bet you tramon can still out run every db on the packers current roster. I think for the right price it could be a move worth it only in a hyde type role tho. Oakland thought woodson was finished also and packers was the only team that wanted woodson but he excelled, same with Peppers he played better in greenbay than he did with the bears. I think tramon still have some left in the tank he just went to the wrong team like the browns come on man. For the right price i would give tramon a chance.

Williams never was a fast cornerback as he ran a 4.57 at his pro day. I would prefer the Packers to go in a different direction.

 

[PackerFanLV]

Williams never was a fast cornerback as he ran a 4.57 at his pro day. I would prefer the Packers to go in a different direction.

I mean it would hurt me if packers went else where i still think tramon is better then the dbs we have on the field now is all im saying. I guees it was instincts that made him look faster then what he was. 4.5 isnt slow btw its just not nfl fast lol

 

[PackerDNA]

Just finished reading an article by Micheal Rodney at his site www.packersnotes.com.
He makes the case that Ted's big move to improve the secondary will be......
bring back Davon House. Seems House, who was benched this season in Jacksonville, is a good candidate to be released . Rodney says hmmmm..... one of 'my guys', cheap, yeah, there's your 'big' move.

 

[Mondio]

I see a safety like Eric Berry out there, and that's a guy I'd spend cash on. An absolute playmaker out there on defense. Ranging all over and calling out coverages. Move Burnett down in a hybrid role and play TE's. He's shown he can provide coverage pretty well on lesser WR's too.

I know everyone is going to say Dix is cheap and young right now and Burnett is fine, and I agree. But neither of them are near the playmaker that Berry is, he's better plain and simple. But if we don't improve our pass rush, none of it matters anyway. Spend money at Safety or spend it at CB and it won't really matter much when we can't pressure qb's. I know, I read an article that said we were pretty good at pressuring qb's, but from what I could tell, we were great at times against crap and when it mattered we had nothing but clean pockets for opposing QB's. We need collapsing pockets and hits.

i think a great safety helps all the DB's as much as a good pass rush. A great DB takes out 1 guy, which is beneficial no doubt, but this defense could be helped in a lot of ways.

 

[JK64]

Just finished reading an article by Micheal Rodney at his site www.packersnotes.com.
He makes the case that Ted's big move to improve the secondary will be......
bring back Davon House. Seems House, who was benched this season in Jacksonville, is a good candidate to be released . Rodney says hmmmm..... one of 'my guys', cheap, yeah, there's your 'big' move.

Benched by Jacksonville, and now we want him? I say no. Get someone in here that can actually defend a pass.

 

[PackerDNA]

Benched by Jacksonville, and now we want him? I say no. Get someone in here that can actually defend a pass.

Scary thing is, it sounds like something Ted would do.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think the thought of TT's lack of moves, scares me more than any moves rumored that he may/should make.