All Capers Threads merged

[El Guapo]

Agreed. This defense is certainly complicated and involves more communication, but not dramatically more than other defenses. The hardest thing to get young guys to do - especially in football - is to use their brains and mouths in addition to their physical capabilities.

I also saw the disconnect between the need for veterans and TT's preference for youth and building through the draft. If Capers is watering down the concept and still having trouble teaching his horses, then something needs to change - either the player acquisition philosophy or the defense. I think that I prefer the player acquisition philosophy more than the defensive scheme.

 

[adambr2]

Hawk, Jones, Tramon, Shields, Raji, Neal, Burnett, Matthews, and Pickett all have 4 or more accrued seasons including this one. I don't buy the youth excuse if anyone is making it for Capers' lack of success. The core of this group has been together for a long time. They're just not getting any better.

The young guys like Daniels and Hyde are getting it done. The vets like Raji, Pickett, Jones, and Burnett are not.

 

[El Guapo]

I'll just reiterate again that his scheme had little to do with those losses. The DL was the worst that I've ever seen in an NFL game in last year's playoffs. They played a lot better in Week 1 this season but without Burnett it was easy pickin's through the air.

I'm not making excuses overall, but guys need to play better. Much better.

 

[adambr2]

Yes, they do. But I'm just not sure that Dom puts them in the best position for success anymore.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/23812/xlv-the-method-behind-capers-madness

I find it interesting that in this day and age, Capers has refused to adapt in some respects. He can't and won't use a computer, and has assistants take care of anything there.

So I do worry that a lot of his defensive failures that take place later in his coaching tenures are much due to his failure to adapt. It's a much different game than it was in 1992. Does he understand the modern game? That's my main concern, and just because MM made him go study the read option at Texas A&M for a bit doesn't alleviate those concerns.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

I have said in MANY other post about capers: change with the time. Or, you will get left behind. I think it is time for him to be left behind by the packers. The stats posted by the OP dont lie and its due solely in a failure to change/adapt. Teams do figure you out eventually and if you don't mix it up, the other teams film study of the same ol same ol will end up getting your *** kicked on a weekly basis.

 

[gatorpack]

The Packers have already giving him more time than anyone else.... Time to go

 

[ivo610]

I don't think we have the talent on defense at the moment to be top 10 no matter who our coordinator is. Well see tho. An offseason can do wonders for a defense

 

[ivo610]

The Packers have already giving him more time than anyone else.... Time to go

He also won a title and we sustained the longest winning streak in franchise history (that KC loss was on the offense)

 

[gatorpack]

He also won a title and we sustained the longest winning streak in franchise history (that KC loss was on the offense)

I respect your opinion I just disagree with it. This Defense looks lost. I could understand if the players were in the right spots and just couldn't make the play. I don't see that as the case they look like they are playing 11 different defenses out there.

 

[gatorpack]

He also won a title and we sustained the longest winning streak in franchise history (that KC loss was on the offense)

Also that long winning streak was Rodgers and the offense.

 

[adambr2]

I hear all the time that we don't have talent on D. Then I hear that we do have talent but bad coaching and scheme. So which is it? The players and staff seem to think that the players can get it done and the scheme is excellent, they're just not executing. That might fly for a game or two, but not for an entire season.

It's definitely a combination. I'll grant that guys like Burnett, Brad Jones, etc. have not been as impressive as they were hoped to be when they were signed. TT overestimated them and overpayed them, no doubt about it. But when you see contract albatrosses given out during his tenure to free agents like Haynesworth, Dunta Robinson, Arrington, etc, you can see why he would rather roll the dice on his own guys.

 

[adambr2]

He also won a title and we sustained the longest winning streak in franchise history (that KC loss was on the offense)

That "longest winning streak in franchise history" had the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL and was bailed out of losses by the offense against the Lions, Chargers, Giants, and Saints, for starters.

 

[ivo610]

That "longest winning streak in franchise history" had the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL and was bailed out of losses by the offense against the Lions, Chargers, Giants, and Saints, for starters.

Sigh... This keeps getting repeated by the espn sportscenter crowd but it's woefully inaccurate. If you judge defenses solely on yards, sure, they had the most. But that's a lazy and ignorant way to judge a defense. I think points are a better judgement of a defense.

 

[ivo610]

Also that long winning streak was Rodgers and the offense.

You don't think leading the nfl in INTs helped the winning streak? Wow.

 

[longtimefan]

Another capers thread... Why not put it withthe other

 

[ivo610]

QBs who threw on us in 2011 avg a 80.6 passer rating. Good enough for 24th in the league. The Vikings were 1st in the league with 107.6 passer rating.

So people threw on is but they didn't do well when they did. Why did they throw so much? Bc they were down early. How did that happen? They kept throwing pics and gave the ball to the offense. See, it's not black and white.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Article from Tom Silverstein about Capers defense and how much Green Bay is forced to use young players. Article mentions that LeBeau (Steelers DC) doesn't like to play rookies because the defense isn't simple and it leads to too many errors. From 2004-2012 the Steelers had a combined five starts from rookies on defense. Packers have had 25 in the last two years alone.

Fact is that if the Packers continue to value youth over experience, you're going to get communication issues in ANY defense. Any defense simple enough for the number of young players we have to run smoothly will get eaten up by offenses. Hopefully the Packers can start to have enough young defensive draft picks work out so we can start resigning guys instead of having this continual revolving door.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...ccess-gets-tweaked-b99175935z1-238548621.html

 

[TJV]

No love for the OP for putting those stats together (even if you think Capers should stay)? I, and others have alluded to Capers’ history along those lines so appreciate red4tribe for putting up the stats. I think it’s a legitimate concern. If the Packers win on Sunday IMO Capers is back. If they lose, I don’t think it’s a certainty he’ll be gone but there will (or should) be a good chance if the loss is mostly on the D. Since I believe that to be true in spite of calling for Capers’ replacement, I’m now rooting for his return.

 

[adambr2]

Sigh... This keeps getting repeated by the espn sportscenter crowd but it's woefully inaccurate. If you judge defenses solely on yards, sure, they had the most. But that's a lazy and ignorant way to judge a defense. I think points are a better judgement of a defense.

So you don't think getting shredded for historically high amounts of passing yardage is the mark of a bad defense..? Wow. They're 19th instead of 32nd if you're going by points, which still doesn't make your case foor them being partially responsible for the huge winning streak.

The one thing that defense did well that this one does not is take away the ball. So yes, in that respect the defense has gotten worse since 2011. That doesn't make a very compelling case for Capers.

 

[ivo610]

So you don't think getting shredded for historically high amounts of passing yardage is the mark of a bad defense..? Wow. They're 19th instead of 32nd if you're going by points, which still doesn't make your case foor them being partially responsible for the huge winning streak.

The one thing that defense did well that this one does not is take away the ball. So yes, in that respect the defense has gotten worse since 2011. That doesn't make a very compelling case for Capers.

So they were closest to avg for the league with the avg being 355 and the pack giving up 359 points. So they were avg in points given up, 1st in the league in turnovers by a WIDE margin, and a tough defense to pass against. If you think the story is only written about a defense by yards I can't help you.

Capers has his flaws, might be rightfully terminated after the season, but to not give him any credit during his tenure as DC is very unfair to him and history.

 

[rodell330]

I don't think we have the talent on defense at the moment to be top 10 no matter who our coordinator is. Well see tho. An offseason can do wonders for a defense

I would have to disagree. Altho we need to add a few more playmakers on defense if Rob Ryan can take a terrible saints defense (worse then ours last yr) and turn it into a top five defense (4) with virtually the SAME players minus a couple?? then it's either Capers?? or the scheme which still points to Capers because it's his scheme. We don't have a roster full of all pro guy's on defense but neither do the Saints and they have made a MAJOR improvement.

 

[adambr2]

So they were closest to avg for the league with the avg being 355 and the pack giving up 359 points. So they were avg in points given up, 1st in the league in turnovers by a WIDE margin, and a tough defense to pass against. If you think the story is only written about a defense by yards I can't help you.

Capers has his flaws, might be rightfully terminated after the season, but to not give him any credit during his tenure as DC is very unfair to him and history.

I do give Capers credit. He turned around a woefully bad defense in 2008 in his first year and by 2010 had a top 5 defense in place. Over time, and combined with losses of key players, opponents figured out how to overmatch this defense and he has been unable to adjust. This, as has been pointed out, is a trend of his entire NFL tenure as his defenses normally peak early and then decline. So unfortunately we're left with little reason to think he's going to start trending back in the other direction, regardless of how much talent one feels that there is on the team.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Sigh... This keeps getting repeated by the espn sportscenter crowd but it's woefully inaccurate. If you judge defenses solely on yards, sure, they had the most. But that's a lazy and ignorant way to judge a defense. I think points are a better judgement of a defense.

The 2011 team gave up more than 30 points four times in the regular season, all wins for the Packers. That's clearly on the offense.

 

[ivo610]

I do give Capers credit. He turned around a woefully bad defense in 2008 in his first year and by 2010 had a top 5 defense in place. Over time, and combined with losses of key players, opponents figured out how to overmatch this defense and he has been unable to adjust. This, as has been pointed out, is a trend of his entire NFL tenure as his defenses normally peak early and then decline. So unfortunately we're left with little reason to think he's going to start trending back in the other direction, regardless of how much talent one feels that there is on the team.

I'm more concerned with his issues as a packers coordinator and not his past. I don't know enough about it to make a judgement. I would want to look at something of more depth than where he ranked in terms of yards given up. Circumstances, strength of schedule, personnel, deeper stats, ect.

 

[ivo610]

The 2011 team gave up more than 30 points four times in the regular season, all wins for the Packers. That's clearly on the offense.

And they lead the league in turnovers by a wide margin, were a tough defense to effectively pass on, and were middle of the league in points. I stand by that they were not the worst defense in the league contrary to what sportscenter tells fans