Wide Receiver Options

[Sunshinepacker]

I mentioned Lockett and Cooks primarily because they wouldn’t demand the same compensation as Metcalf. If the packers can figure out how to swing it, I’d obviously prefer DK ; I’m just not sure they want to trade a 1st for him PLUS have to sign him to a rather large extension almost immediately.

 

[Magooch]

After signing Tyreek Hill and Cedrick Wilson (along with already having Jaylen Waddle and Mike Gesicki)...how much - if anything - would you give up for Devante Parker?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

After signing Tyreek Hill and Cedrick Wilson (along with already having Jaylen Waddle and Mike Gesicki)...how much - if anything - would you give up for Devante Parker?

A day three pick? Packers have to be looking into it.

 

[tynimiller]

It is now being “leaked” we have officially asked about Lockett and Metcalf.

 

[swhitset]

@McKnowledge LOL dude stop digging yourself deeper. It's okay to admit you made a mistake and typed quicker than you thought. I am well aware of his early career injuries, as I am of Davante's and his recent as well. There are TONS of reasons not to want Lockett, but your injury claim is just false and isn't an opinion.

I know you don’t use the ignore feature… and I actually agree enough with your reasons that I pretty much don’t use it anymore either… but just a general fyi… when I did use it…that guy was on it lol.

 

[tynimiller]

now that made me laugh!

 

[PackerDNA]

It is now being “leaked” we have officially asked about Lockett and Metcalf.

What was the answer?

 

[tynimiller]

What was the answer?

Nothing as of now. I suspect they won’t want to trade DK and they’ll want too much for Lockett for it to make sense….time will tell

 

[OldSchool101]

Again, with MLFs offensive scheme I don't think you really "need" a superstar elite WR.

We really just need SMART guys who can run routes, timing, learn the playback, etc. And then CATCH the football. If tbey can run block that is good too

I've been really glad the FO has put so much emphasis into the D this off-season

I think we underestimate what MLF has brought using his system. He is very equipped at varying different looks and packages. My belief is when you rely on 1 player like we did Davante? You become predictable to some extent. They just doubled him in our NFC game and aside from 1 drive we were held in check most of the day.
We would’ve been better off with spreading that ball around more and moving the chains instead of “forcing” it.

We need another formidable TE beyond Tonyan. He’s really not even “near” elite. He’s a #2 being forced into a #1 role. That’s fine, IF you have a second option. We have our well rounded Hback guys like Deguara, But we had ZERO bonafide receiving options in a system predicated by TE usage after 1 injury. Someone please Tell me how ZERO TE threat helps being “unpredictable”.

This was a quote from SBNation after we sent Graham packing and brought in Deguara…

“Production at tight end, and with two tight ends on the field, needs a boost, particularly if LaFleur wants that illusion of complexity to be maximally effective. It’s one thing to play multiple tight ends and say, “We have a matchup advantage because we can run or pass,” but it’s another thing to actually execute it. Green Bay managed a 46% success rate last season from 12 personnel with those two tight ends, in the bottom half of the league”

Those 2 were Tonyan and Deguara

We are all obviously focused at WR as we should be to an extent. Yet one of our biggest weakness is at TE after giving up on Stern and near complete failure of “using Deguara in the mold Kyle Juszczyk of the 49ers”
Btw. That was Matt’s quoted direction last year. Obviously also some injury misfortune, yet with no solid contingency plan

We don’t need SBNation to tell us that this Packer TE group needs serious help in the passing game and Run support. We can’t even block for a FG right now! We’ve lived the horror through tears and broken remote controls! (Ok exaggerating there a bit,, I hope?!)

This TE receiving “Faux Pas” will be Especially magnified in a season where our new WR group will be tested by our opponents early and often.
We need a another boost off receiving threat at TE, not just WR. While there are no elite TE’s this season. There are several Good, bonafide receiving TE prospects mid draft.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

now that made me laugh!

Dude your EGO is bigger then Trent Browns frame.
It's OK to be wrong.
It's OK not to know things or even anything at all.
It's OK to miss speaking, miss spell ir even have different opinions and or views or vision.

Seriously conquer your own ego and you will be a happier man by a long Field goal I promise.

 

[OldSchool101]

Dude your EGO is bigger then Trent Browns frame.
It's OK to be wrong.
It's OK not to know things or even anything at all.
It's OK to miss speaking, miss spell ir even have different opinions and or views or vision.

Seriously conquer your own ego and you will be a happier man by a long Field goal I promise.

Someone once told me “The biggest Mountain to conquer is not
Everest or K1.. It’s Mount Ego”.

and now I’ll add.. It’s a daily climb and we all have our own mountain

 

[tynimiller]

Dude your EGO is bigger then Trent Browns frame.
It's OK to be wrong.
It's OK not to know things or even anything at all.
It's OK to miss speaking, miss spell ir even have different opinions and or views or vision.

Seriously conquer your own ego and you will be a happier man by a long Field goal I promise.

I have zero problem admitting I’m wrong and do it often here sadly, where did I go wrong here?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How many years did Brady have a Davante Adams in New England when they went to or won the SB? Other than Randy Moss the Patriots have not had what I would consider elite WRs for a long long time. I agree that we need to add talent but Davante Adams is not a requirement.

It is definitely possible to win a SB without a great WR corps. Look at the Patriots in 2018, the Eagles in 2017, the Seahawks in 2013, the Ravens in 2012.

I definitely agree it's possible to win the Super Bowl without an elite wide receiver. Actually I prefer having several good ones than just an elite one and a ton of JAGs. With that being said the Packers are currently far away from having a decent group though.

As far as DA leaving, Rodgers will create another one or two WR superstars. Recall that Adams was an average receiver when he came in the league. He was not a good route runner and dropped easy catches. With some hard work and getting in a groove with AR, he started to gel.....and the rest is history.
Look back to the early years with Rodgers at the helm. He took Jordy and Randall to another level, as they were considered average WRs coming out of college.

Adams, Cobb and Nelson were all considered to be above average receivers coming out of college. That's why all of them were selected in the second round.

I think we underestimate what MLF has brought using his system. He is very equipped at varying different looks and packages. My belief is when you rely on 1 player like we did Davante? You become predictable to some extent. They just doubled him in our NFC game and aside from 1 drive we were held in check most of the day.
We would’ve been better off with spreading that ball around more and moving the chains instead of “forcing” it.

It doesn't make sense for Rodgers to spread the ball around just for the sake of doing it. He needs talented receivers for it to work.

 

[kevans74]

I think we underestimate what MLF has brought using his system. He is very equipped at varying different looks and packages. My belief is when you rely on 1 player like we did Davante? You become predictable to some extent. They just doubled him in our NFC game and aside from 1 drive we were held in check most of the day.
We would’ve been better off with spreading that ball around more and moving the chains instead of “forcing” it.

We need another formidable TE beyond Tonyan. He’s really not even “near” elite. He’s a #2 being forced into a #1 role. That’s fine, IF you have a second option. We have our well rounded Hback guys like Deguara, But we had ZERO bonafide receiving options in a system predicated by TE usage after 1 injury. Someone please Tell me how ZERO TE threat helps being “unpredictable”.

This was a quote from SBNation after we sent Graham packing and brought in Deguara…

“Production at tight end, and with two tight ends on the field, needs a boost, particularly if LaFleur wants that illusion of complexity to be maximally effective. It’s one thing to play multiple tight ends and say, “We have a matchup advantage because we can run or pass,” but it’s another thing to actually execute it. Green Bay managed a 46% success rate last season from 12 personnel with those two tight ends, in the bottom half of the league”

Those 2 were Tonyan and Deguara

We are all obviously focused at WR as we should be to an extent. Yet one of our biggest weakness is at TE after giving up on Stern and near complete failure of “using Deguara in the mold Kyle Juszczyk of the 49ers”
Btw. That was Matt’s quoted direction last year. Obviously also some injury misfortune, yet with no solid contingency plan

We don’t need SBNation to tell us that this Packer TE group needs serious help in the passing game and Run support. We can’t even block for a FG right now! We’ve lived the horror through tears and broken remote controls! (Ok exaggerating there a bit,, I hope?!)

This TE receiving “Faux Pas” will be Especially magnified in a season where our new WR group will be tested by our opponents early and often.
We need a another boost off receiving threat at TE, not just WR. While there are no elite TE’s this season. There are several Good, bonafide receiving TE prospects mid draft.

For sure. I made a list on another post that if you COMBINE what Aaron Jones and Dillon do PLUS Tonyan and Deguira we really don't need a bunch of capital at WR

We should probably add another veteran TE who can catch....Jared Cook? The tricky thing wjth TEs are they don't generally produce as rookies

 

[tynimiller]

I want to propose three guys that some of us have mentioned but I now truly believe are prime candidates for GB to go after. Now before some foolish ones take this as a me believing this guy can be the bell cow or is a clear WR1 - stop with your ignorance. What this guy does however, is intersect a TON of lines that make a trade agreeable and good for both sides of such a deal.

Now I'm not going to even put the three guys names, as folks have illustrated they get dumb around names without substance or stats to back up claims. The chart below list some of the main FAs this year or traded guys and threw in a couple names folks will recognize. One stat for production I've always looked at as a solid gauge is receiving yards per snap. Reason I like this metric is injuries happen and this can equalize a guys numbers to show their actual value when healthy - THIS DOES NOT ELIMINATE CONCERNS ABOUT INJURIES.

	Person 1	Person 2	Person 3	Adams	Kirk	Hill	Cooper	Wilson	Robinson	Watkins	Diggs	MVS	Landry	Fuller
	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap	Yds/Snap
2015	1.056	1.393	1.931	0.634			1.188		1.424	1.464	1.101		1.334
2016	1.012	1.737	1.999	1.092		1.425	1.156		0.843	1.129	1.301		1.274	0.766
2017	0.993	1.265	1.888	1.139		1.524	0.958		5.667	0.766	1.088		1.062	0.809
2018	0.752	1.515	2.050	1.454	1.089	1.634	1.967		0.986	1.131	1.168	0.841	1.020	1.341
2019	1.328	INJ*	1.717	1.471	0.896	1.528	1.407	0.613	1.144	0.909	1.464	0.834	1.203	1.188
2020	1.092	0.638	1.647	1.775	0.795	1.416	1.180	0.829	1.372	0.799	1.591	0.870	1.202	1.523
2021	0.955	0.955	1.104	1.753	1.098	1.429	1.037	1.140	0.665	0.860	1.254	0.945	1.069

Now, of the three two of them are FAs...one of them is not (not DK Metcalf fyi).

The guy that isn't a FA most likely isn't going to cost a ton of draft equity to go get and here is why:

- He has had some injury issues over the years, however when in as illustrated he produces very WELL.
- The team has an insurgence of young talent, making him less needed for the direction of the team's WR room
- The team needs draft equity...something we have.
- Light cost IMO is tops a third rounder but only if you get a high Day 3 and this guy back...otherwise I bet a 4th
- *Negative* he isn't really someone to bet on WR1 but is that WR1B level type guy that is better than adding nothing, that is for sure.

The two true FA's are both guys that clearly are still producing at an adaquate level, Person 3 last year out performed on snaps more than Allen Robinson, Sammy Watkins, MVS, Landry, Kirk, Cooper and the other two being proposed as well.

Just FYI, I love the idea of being able to go get Metcalf if the right trade value sent can be done...but after that these are my three options and my preference is actually in reverse order of how they are listed on this chart.

 

[tynimiller]

Crap just noticed Person 1 (the non-FA) in the chart above was the wrong non-FA on my list of targets....that is actually option #2 not #1 for trading after Metcalf for me. This is the guy that holds the #1 spot for me after-Metcalf:

Person 4
Yds/Snap
1.187891
1.328426
1.024621
1.217391
0.831669
1.435705
1.247894

 

[Magooch]

Is one of them Brandin Cooks by chance? I feel like that's one that might make sense for us. He's not big, but still fast, has had 1000+ yards and 6TD both of the last two seasons, and could probably come fairly cheap...

 

[Pkrjones]

I don't have a lot of faith that any team will trade away their #1 WR without expecting a king's ransom in return, so IMHO it's time to look thru the FA list and find a serviceable vet WR that can still play, at a reasonable price.

- T.Y. Hilton (32 yrs old) had neck surgery in Sept. '21, almost retired, but IF good to go for another year would be a 4-5 targets/game guy. Spotrac pegs him at $6Mil/yr "value", maybe float a 2 yr/$8Mil deal & see if he's interested?
- Sammy Watkins (28 yrs old) is productive everywhere he lands, with the chance to play with AR may give GB a few good years? Played for $5Mil in '21, maybe float a 3 yrs/$12Mil deal & see if he's interested?

 

[gopkrs]

I don't have a lot of faith that any team will trade away their #1 WR without expecting a king's ransom in return, so IMHO it's time to look thru the FA list and find a serviceable vet WR that can still play, at a reasonable price.

- T.Y. Hilton (32 yrs old) had neck surgery in Sept. '21, almost retired, but IF good to go for another year would be a 4-5 targets/game guy. Spotrac pegs him at $6Mil/yr "value", maybe float a 2 yr/$8Mil deal & see if he's interested?
- Sammy Watkins (28 yrs old) is productive everywhere he lands, with the chance to play with AR may give GB a few good years? Played for $5Mil in '21, maybe float a 3 yrs/$12Mil deal & see if he's interested?

Yeah, I've been wondering why nobody has mentioned Sammy Watkins. He looked good when KC went to him. They just had too many receivers for him to have big numbers. And Ty Hilton is intriguing to me. He is so fast.

 

[gopkrs]

I haven't paid that much attention to college. But what I've been reading, it sounds like that Alabama receiver is expected to be a real game changer when he heals up. I guess I would not mind getting two receivers in the draft early if he was one of them. I wonder though, why he did not do well when he was with Ohio State. I hope I'm talking about the right guy.

 

[tynimiller]

I haven't paid that much attention to college. But what I've been reading, it sounds like that Alabama receiver is expected to be a real game changer when he heals up. I guess I would not mind getting two receivers in the draft early if he was one of them. I wonder though, why he did not do well when he was with Ohio State. I hope I'm talking about the right guy.

Which Alabama WR that is injured? Metchie and Williams both are highly touted and expected to most likely be off the board by end of second round if not then definitely gone by end of Day2.

I assume you are speaking to Williams but wasn't sure.

 

[gopkrs]

Which Alabama WR that is injured? Metchie and Williams both are highly touted and expected to most likely be off the board by end of second round if not then definitely gone by end of Day2.

I assume you are speaking to Williams but wasn't sure.

I'm sure Williams. I don't see Metchie going in the 1st in any of the mocks. If he is as good as he sounds; he would be worth waiting a half year for him to play. And take one of the other good ones with the other 1st. Don't like doing that really but you could really be set at W/O for awhile.

 

[Poppa San]

-Tyler Lockett: 29 year old, versatile, high volume receiver. Base salaries of 3M and 9.7M next two years.

Just looked at his contract and the dead cap to Seattle makes this almost undoable currently.
I know teams convert roster bonuses into signing bonuses as a cap maneuver. Can they do the opposite? Can his prorated cap hit be turned into say a May 1st roster bonus to facilitate a trade by making the receiving team liable for the cap charge? The new team can then re-prorate the cap charge by adding voidable years or whatever.

 

[Dantés]

Just looked at his contract and the dead cap to Seattle makes this almost undoable currently.
I know teams convert roster bonuses into signing bonuses as a cap maneuver. Can they do the opposite? Can his prorated cap hit be turned into say a May 1st roster bonus to facilitate a trade by making the receiving team liable for the cap charge? The new team can then re-prorate the cap charge by adding voidable years or whatever.

Teams have proven more and more willing to eat dead money in recent seasons. I don't think it would be reported that the Seahawks are listening if they weren't open to it at all.

My bigger concern is that now the Packers have competition in the Chiefs to drive the asking price up.

 

[OldSchool101]

It doesn't make sense for Rodgers to spread the ball around just for the sake of doing it. He needs talented receivers for it to work.

I didn’t mean spreading the ball around in somehow us trying to be “fair” to unqualified players. I meant more in staying unpredictable with who the play involved.

It’s natural for us novice fans to get impatient when you look at our WR room. We could all collectively jump off a cliff holding hands, Yet those who do their jobs at a high level in player acquisition likely are not threatened with our lack of trust in their ability of our need to complain.

There seems to be these premature reactions to our current talent at WR (yours is more tempered)
Yet does anyone really believe we are no longer addressing that need?
We can keep adding talent all the way through trade deadline if needed. One of our best CB in performance wasn’t even a Packer when regular season started last year.

I’ll just add that being patient often gets you the best value in the long run.
Sometimes the things we think we need so badly by sundown today? end up being the biggest mistakes for us long term.. many moons from now
Unknown Indian Chief