Why?

[pizzle]

I don't want to have my intelligence insulted. I don't want to be trolled. I don't want your bias/love for them to blind your judgement. I just want to have honest and real discourse on why for the past decade Green Bay has stuck by two players that have literally cost us Super Bowl opportunities. We know the backstory-in 2011 we had one of the worst defenses in football so in 2012 we drafted a DE out of USC to pair with another former USC DE at the OLB positions, the most important pass rush position in a 3-4 (and arguably in football, period). It has not worked.

Over the past 3 years, there have been opportunities to replace/get rid of these two. Their have been a multitude and myriad of EDGE defenders in the draft available to either shore up the depth behind or flat out overtake their starting spots at OLB. And this off-season, when arguably the best, most complete EDGE rusher in pro ball is available via trade (a guy that body type wise IS A PROTOTYPICAL PASS RUSHING OLB) we don't sell the farm to bring him in to help our All-Universe QB. Instead, we let our arch-rival grab him right before we're about to open the season against them.

WHY? Why doesn't the GB front office realize the reason why the Packers defense has been so bad for years is because THEY CAN'T GET TO THE QB WHEN IT MATTERS-not that they can't cover. Why haven't they admitted that Clay and Nick are mistakes, HUGE albatrosses that should have been removed? WHY IS GB SO STUBBORN ABOUT THEM WHEN ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THEM AS THE REAL PROBLEM BEHIND US NOT WINNING MORE THAN THE 1 SB WE DID IN 2010?

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I don't want to have my intelligence insulted. I don't want to be trolled. I don't want your bias/love for them to blind your judgement. I just want to have honest and real discourse on why for the past decade Green Bay has stuck by two players that have literally cost us Super Bowl opportunities. We know the backstory-in 2011 we had one of the worst defenses in football so in 2012 we drafted a DE out of USC to pair with another former USC DE at the OLB positions, the most important pass rush position in a 3-4 (and arguably in football, period). It has not worked.

Over the past 3 years, there have been opportunities to replace/get rid of these two. Their have been a multitude and myriad of EDGE defenders in the draft available to either shore up the depth behind or flat out overtake their starting spots at OLB. And this off-season, when arguably the best, most complete EDGE rusher in pro ball is available via trade (a guy that body type wise IS A PROTOTYPICAL PASS RUSHING OLB) we don't sell the farm to bring him in to help our All-Universe QB. Instead, we let our arch-rival grab him right before we're about to open the season against them.

WHY? Why doesn't the GB front office realize the reason why the Packers defense has been so bad for years is because THEY CAN'T GET TO THE QB WHEN IT MATTERS-not that they can't cover. Why haven't they admitted that Clay and Nick are mistakes, HUGE albatrosses that should have been removed? WHY IS GB SO STUBBORN ABOUT THEM WHEN ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THEM AS THE REAL PROBLEM BEHIND US NOT WINNING MORE THAN THE 1 SB WE DID IN 2010?

What would that accomplish?

 

[Mondio]

It would certainly be difficult to insult your intelligence, and I dare not try for fear I may end up in the same position you're in. But i would say you have an extremely myopic view of what actually transpired and more than a little distorted.

 

[XPack]

We didn't win SBs because of Clay and Nick? Why indeed?

Now, I've heard everything.

 

[AmishMafia]

I don't want to have my intelligence insulted. I don't want to be trolled. I don't want your bias/love for them to blind your judgement. I just want to have honest and real discourse on why for the past decade Green Bay has stuck by two players that have literally cost us Super Bowl opportunities. We know the backstory-in 2011 we had one of the worst defenses in football so in 2012 we drafted a DE out of USC to pair with another former USC DE at the OLB positions, the most important pass rush position in a 3-4 (and arguably in football, period). It has not worked.

Over the past 3 years, there have been opportunities to replace/get rid of these two. Their have been a multitude and myriad of EDGE defenders in the draft available to either shore up the depth behind or flat out overtake their starting spots at OLB. And this off-season, when arguably the best, most complete EDGE rusher in pro ball is available via trade (a guy that body type wise IS A PROTOTYPICAL PASS RUSHING OLB) we don't sell the farm to bring him in to help our All-Universe QB. Instead, we let our arch-rival grab him right before we're about to open the season against them.

WHY? Why doesn't the GB front office realize the reason why the Packers defense has been so bad for years is because THEY CAN'T GET TO THE QB WHEN IT MATTERS-not that they can't cover. Why haven't they admitted that Clay and Nick are mistakes, HUGE albatrosses that should have been removed? WHY IS GB SO STUBBORN ABOUT THEM WHEN ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THEM AS THE REAL PROBLEM BEHIND US NOT WINNING MORE THAN THE 1 SB WE DID IN 2010?

Why did they stick with Favre? He obviously cost them at least 2 or 3 SBs with his stupid interceptions in the playoffs.

I dont think they want to win Superbowls, else they would listen to posters who obviously know more about these things. Besides, winning Supernowls is soooooo easy.

 

[PackAttack12]

There's no question that the performance on the defensive side of the ball for the better part of the past 7 seasons has cost the Packers a shot at another Super Bowl or two at the least, however I'm not sure that I would place all of the blame on the Packers not moving on from Matthews and Perry.

They aren't world beaters, but they're competent players. I'll be curious to see what type of pressure the Packers can generate up front this year with those two players, along with having more depth on the DL, and a new culture/philosophy under Mike Pettine.

You're definitely correct that a lack of pressure on opposing QB's, particularly situationally when it really counts, has cost the Packers. We might just disagree on the root cause.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Really an "easy" fix. Shell out a few first round picks + a few more for each of the missing pieces, then pay each guy $23+ M/year. Pray they don't get injured or decide that they are now set for life and a drop off in performance happens.

To answer why the 2 specific pieces in question, Matthews and Perry, haven't performed up to the posters satisfaction, I guess you have to ask yourself: "When their new contracts were signed, were they overpaid, shouldn't have been resigned and the Packers should have then tried to reload and seek other answers?" Or "Were those 2 players performing well prior to signing their new contracts and injuries as well as drop in production now makes it look like someone in the front office messed up big time? Did the DC or the supporting players have any influence on their play or was it just ALL on #52 and #53?

Sure, the Packers could run around chasing their tails each season, dumping overpaid under performing players, eating the dead cap in hopes to find the next Khalil Mack. However, I would prefer not to become the next Cleveland Browns. Football has a bit of luck involved in it, especially making it all the way to a SB win, if you are a fan that thinks success is only measured in SB rings, then I have some bad news for you, you are going to be disappointed most of the time.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't want to have my intelligence insulted. I don't want to be trolled. I don't want your bias/love for them to blind your judgement. I just want to have honest and real discourse on why for the past decade Green Bay has stuck by two players that have literally cost us Super Bowl opportunities. We know the backstory-in 2011 we had one of the worst defenses in football so in 2012 we drafted a DE out of USC to pair with another former USC DE at the OLB positions, the most important pass rush position in a 3-4 (and arguably in football, period). It has not worked.

Over the past 3 years, there have been opportunities to replace/get rid of these two. Their have been a multitude and myriad of EDGE defenders in the draft available to either shore up the depth behind or flat out overtake their starting spots at OLB. And this off-season, when arguably the best, most complete EDGE rusher in pro ball is available via trade (a guy that body type wise IS A PROTOTYPICAL PASS RUSHING OLB) we don't sell the farm to bring him in to help our All-Universe QB. Instead, we let our arch-rival grab him right before we're about to open the season against them.

WHY? Why doesn't the GB front office realize the reason why the Packers defense has been so bad for years is because THEY CAN'T GET TO THE QB WHEN IT MATTERS-not that they can't cover. Why haven't they admitted that Clay and Nick are mistakes, HUGE albatrosses that should have been removed? WHY IS GB SO STUBBORN ABOUT THEM WHEN ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THEM AS THE REAL PROBLEM BEHIND US NOT WINNING MORE THAN THE 1 SB WE DID IN 2010?

The defense has been awful because they've been starting guys at corner that have no business starting at corner. I'm sure Demetri Goodson is a great guy but he has no business being a starting corner in the NFL. Same can be said of Josh Hawkins, Josh Rollins, or Damarious Randall. Plus, it's far easier to say "go get a pass rusher" than to actually go get a pass rusher. And pass rush isn't the reason the Packers haven't won more Super Bowls under MM.

 

[Dantés]

I don't want to have my intelligence insulted. I don't want to be trolled. I don't want your bias/love for them to blind your judgement. I just want to have honest and real discourse on why for the past decade Green Bay has stuck by two players that have literally cost us Super Bowl opportunities. We know the backstory-in 2011 we had one of the worst defenses in football so in 2012 we drafted a DE out of USC to pair with another former USC DE at the OLB positions, the most important pass rush position in a 3-4 (and arguably in football, period). It has not worked.

Over the past 3 years, there have been opportunities to replace/get rid of these two. Their have been a multitude and myriad of EDGE defenders in the draft available to either shore up the depth behind or flat out overtake their starting spots at OLB. And this off-season, when arguably the best, most complete EDGE rusher in pro ball is available via trade (a guy that body type wise IS A PROTOTYPICAL PASS RUSHING OLB) we don't sell the farm to bring him in to help our All-Universe QB. Instead, we let our arch-rival grab him right before we're about to open the season against them.

WHY? Why doesn't the GB front office realize the reason why the Packers defense has been so bad for years is because THEY CAN'T GET TO THE QB WHEN IT MATTERS-not that they can't cover. Why haven't they admitted that Clay and Nick are mistakes, HUGE albatrosses that should have been removed? WHY IS GB SO STUBBORN ABOUT THEM WHEN ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THEM AS THE REAL PROBLEM BEHIND US NOT WINNING MORE THAN THE 1 SB WE DID IN 2010?

I would argue that both Matthews and Perry have worked out, they've just both struggled with the injury bug. But even at that, the biggest problem in Green Bay defensively over the last few years has been the ability of the secondary to cover. Their pass rush has actually been solid. But pass rush and coverage are symbiotic. You need both. Some schemes (e.g. Dallas, Philly, Carolina) place more importance on the pass rush to help the coverage. Some schemes (e.g. Green Bay under Pettine) place more importance on the coverage to help the pass rush.

All that said, I totally wanted them to draft/sign more help at pass rusher over the last two years and I totally wanted them to pursue Mack. As to the former, I would consider that to be the most important failure of TT/Gute over the last two seasons. Their starters are good, but one will need replacing soon and both are somewhat fragile. As to the latter (Mack), they pursued him. We don't know what was offered. I do know that "selling the farm" would not have been a good strategy.

So basically, I don't think the evidence all points in the direction that you seem to think. They certainly need to prioritize pass rusher moving forward, but that definitely has not been their biggest problem.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I'd respond, but we were asked not to do certain things so I'll just have to watch the thread.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd respond, but we were asked not to do certain things so I'll just have to watch the thread.

In other words, the OP is saying "if your opinion isn't the same as mine....****"?

 

[Jerellh528]

Why..not add more info to the title instead of bein all click baity.

 

[Dantés]

Why..not add more info to the title instead of bein all click baity.

Or why... open a thread expressing a desire for open discourse and then not reply to anything anyone says back?

 

[sschind]

I don't know about the rest of you but I am just sick to my stomach knowing that the Packers could have been 6-1 in Super Bowls if they had just cut Matthews and Perry 3 years ago.

On top of that we just lost the opportunity to go 8-1 by 2020 by not signing Kahilil Mack.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't know about the rest of you but I am just sick to my stomach knowing that the Packers could have been 6-1 in Super Bowls if they had just cut Matthews and Perry 3 years ago.

On top of that we just lost the opportunity to go 8-1 by 2020 by not signing Kahilil Mack.

You're such a smart ***....no wonder I like you, but Mom isn't happy that you aren't behaving yourself!

 

[Mondio]

I have a bigger question WHY? as in why would somebody come here now a few days away from starting a season brand spanking new, and start stupid **** like this all over again? That's what the offseason is for, you had the better part of 7-8 months to re-live 2014, 2015, 2016 and the heartbreaking and strange endings and the reasons why.

You will **** and have optimism at least until we give up our first 1st down on Sunday night.

 

[lambeaulambo]

now now....easy on the lad....we don't have 92 on the roster anymore....I can relate w the ribaldry here....could the team have found a way to make their D better? Yes. The how is what everyone is asking here....somebody answer that damn phone!!

 

[RRyder]

I don't want to have my intelligence insulted. I don't want to be trolled. I don't want your bias/love for them to blind your judgement. I just want to have honest and real discourse on why for the past decade Green Bay has stuck by two players that have literally cost us Super Bowl opportunities. We know the backstory-in 2011 we had one of the worst defenses in football so in 2012 we drafted a DE out of USC to pair with another former USC DE at the OLB positions, the most important pass rush position in a 3-4 (and arguably in football, period). It has not worked.

Over the past 3 years, there have been opportunities to replace/get rid of these two. Their have been a multitude and myriad of EDGE defenders in the draft available to either shore up the depth behind or flat out overtake their starting spots at OLB. And this off-season, when arguably the best, most complete EDGE rusher in pro ball is available via trade (a guy that body type wise IS A PROTOTYPICAL PASS RUSHING OLB) we don't sell the farm to bring him in to help our All-Universe QB. Instead, we let our arch-rival grab him right before we're about to open the season against them.

WHY? Why doesn't the GB front office realize the reason why the Packers defense has been so bad for years is because THEY CAN'T GET TO THE QB WHEN IT MATTERS-not that they can't cover. Why haven't they admitted that Clay and Nick are mistakes, HUGE albatrosses that should have been removed? WHY IS GB SO STUBBORN ABOUT THEM WHEN ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THEM AS THE REAL PROBLEM BEHIND US NOT WINNING MORE THAN THE 1 SB WE DID IN 2010?

I honestly cant tell if this is satire

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I honestly cant tell if this is satire

Grab a big bag of popcorn and a 6 pack, we may be here awhile if we find out it isn't.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

The F.... I started reading about players that cost us Super Bowl wins and didn't see Bostick's name once. I kid, he's had enough crap thrown his way, but seriously, wtf with this thread?

 

[Firethorn1001]

I honestly cant tell if this is satire

Reading through his old posts, he is nothing if not consistent about his fury over the pass rush and liberal use of capital letters.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Interesting topic, but begs the question...... WHY hasn’t CLAY’S GROIN been mentioned?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

You can't have#12 And Mack. It doesn't work that way.

 

[RRyder]

Reading through his old posts, he is nothing if not consistent about his fury over the pass rush and liberal use of capital letters.

Well then hes going to get upset when I say Perry is the probably the 2nd most IMPORTANT player on this team to keep healthy this season

 

[Conso]

There are so many factors when it comes to winning SB titles it’s insane to try and pin it on something/someone directly. Clay has had good years he’s not a bad player even these past years. Plus you also need to remember that the players do what they are told by their respective coordinators. Someone mentioned this in an earlier post about players playing where they shouldn’t. He was talking about CBs more specifically but it’s the idea I’m referring to. Clay was told play this spot, do this by Dom Capers, could be his play suffered from that. Just saying we don’t know exactly why Clays play suffered, could be he’s losing his edge, could be DC misused him. We’ll get a better idea after this season, new GM and new DC.