Well, if Rodgers actually asked to re-sign Cobb?

[Deleted member 6794]

Don't they have around 25 - 30 million of cap room next year? (I've read varying reports)

If they find a suitable replacement for Hawk, that frees up another 5 million.

So there is an attractive scenario.

The available cap space depends on the salary cap number for next season. If it raises to $140 million the Packers will have close to $26 million in cap space available. Releasing Hawk would result in $3.5 million cap savings.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Aside of the time Cobb missed because of the freak injury he suffered in Baltimore last season he has missed a total of two games (both regular season finales in 2011 and 2012). I don´t think that qualifies him as being injury prone.



Cobb leads all WRs in receptions, receiving yards and TDs out of the slot this season.

Never did I say Cobb wasn't as good as Cruz but paying Cobb at Nelson's level or above would be more than a million dollars more per season than what Cruz is making.

 

[Hincha]

The two things I'm most confident about as far as off season moves go, is that Cobb and Bulaga get resigned.

Agree... think these will be the top 2 priorities.

 

[Hincha]

The available cap space depends on the salary cap number for next season. If it raises to $140 million the Packers will have close to $26 million in cap space available. Releasing Hawk would result in $3.5 million cap savings.

That looks about right... right now at $122M for 2015 and have about $7M to carry over.

If they clean house with ILB B. Jones would be another $3.7M savings.

 

[adambr2]

There's no way they keep Jones. The highly inconsistent play just isn't worth nearly a $5M cap hit next year.

I'm thinking they keep Barrington and otherwise pretty much revamp the entire ILB corps. One bargain guy through FA like they did with Guion this year, and then an early round pick, likely a 1st.

 

[Mondio]

As much as i've liked Hawk and his time here, I think he may be the odd man out. He's too slow for the passing game and approaching too slow for the run game too. Knowledge on the field is great, but if you can't keep up on the field, it won't matter. They have other leaders on defense that will fill that knowledge gap.

I'm not a big fan of Jones, but he is at least offering some skills in the pass game. I see them keeping at least one of those inside guys. I thing both could be upgraded at this point, but if it was as easy and just putting someone else in there, they would have already I think.

 

[brandon2348]

The difference between $5M-$6M and $8M-$10M is between a 33% and 50% difference. Would you stay with your employer if your competitor offered you a 50% bump in salary? I wouldn't. Or at least, I would go to my employer and say, "This is how much they value me, can you at least get in the ballpark of that?"

Humility is one thing, smart career choices are entirely another. Cobb isn't staying for $5M - $6M. If they can keep him for $8M, I'll be thrilled.

It depends. What is winning worth in the whole equation? What number can you put on winning and playing with maybe the best QB of all time? What number can you put on going to the playoffs every year and having a chance to win a Super Bowl? How do those percentages work?

Sure, Cobb can play games with his employer like Greg Jennings did and squeeze every penny he can get but at the end of day Gregg Jennings has become an afterthought while getting a healthy dose of "losing". That can't be fun for any professional athlete I would think.

I am certain Cobb would be able to get more money from another team, but by what he has demonstrated he does not strike me as the type that will sell completely out for the contract and nothing else. Cobb deserves to get a raise and I don't see TT "low-balling" him as you look at recent re-signs they have been good deals for everyone involved.

The only way Cobb won't be a Green Bay Packer IMO is if he gets the attitude suddenly of squeezing every penny on the table like Gregg Jennings did and forcing the hand of TT to let him walk. I have complete faith that TT will offer Cobb a deal that is fair to Cobb and the Packer organization.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It depends. What is winning worth in the whole equation? What number can you put on winning and playing with maybe the best QB of all time? What number can you put on going to the playoffs every year and having a chance to win a Super Bowl?

Sure, Cobb can play games with his employer like Greg Jennings did and squeeze every penny he can get but at the end of day Gregg Jennings has become an afterthought while getting a healthy dose of "losing". That can't be fun for any professional athlete I would think.

I am certain Cobb would be able to get more money from another team, but by what he has demonstrated he does not strike me as the type that will sell completely out for the contract and nothing else. Cobb deserves to get a raise and I don't see TT "low-balling" him as you look at recent re-signs they have been good deals for everyone involved.

The only way Cobb won't be a Green Bay Packer IMO is if he gets the attitude suddenly of squeezing every penny on the table like Gregg Jennings did and forcing the hand of TT to let him walk. I have complete faith that TT will offer Cobb a deal that is fair to Cobb and the Packer organization.

I love when people start deciding that another person has enough money and that the person is an ***** if they decide they want to make more money elsewhere. This will be Cobb's FIRST big money contract. He has ZERO assurance of ever signing another deal and contracts in the NFL aren't guaranteed so the possibility exists he may not play through the entirety of his next deal. That being the case, how can anyone blame the kid if he decides he wants to make more money elsewhere?

 

[brandon2348]

I love when people start deciding that another person has enough money and that the person is an ***** if they decide they want to make more money elsewhere. This will be Cobb's FIRST big money contract. He has ZERO assurance of ever signing another deal and contracts in the NFL aren't guaranteed so the possibility exists he may not play through the entirety of his next deal. That being the case, how can anyone blame the kid if he decides he wants to make more money elsewhere?

I simply said I can see another team or teams offering him more money. We see this all the time and if the player's goal is to just to get the biggest contract then I have no problem with that. Go get paid. I am just saying career wise it didn't work out that well for Greg Jennings and many others.

Hmmm, leave Aaron Rodgers and a playoff team every year or go get my *** kicked playing with sum bum QB and loser franchise for a little more money? Easy decision for me.

 

[adambr2]

It depends. What is winning worth in the whole equation? What number can you put on winning and playing with maybe the best QB of all time? What number can you put on going to the playoffs every year and having a chance to win a Super Bowl?

Not 33-50% of your salary, that's for sure.

It's certainly advantageous to play for a winner, but it doesn't overrule a far below market deal.

Rodgers got paid, Matthews got paid, Shields got paid, Nelson got paid. It's possible that he might settle for slightly less here than he would get as an unrestricted free agent to sign here before free agency hits, or if he gets the franchise tag, but there is no chance of a $5M-$6M annual contract. Like someone pointed out, Cobb and Nelson were at very different points in their careers when they were ready to sign their first post-rookie contract deal.

Cobb is going to get paid around the market value for a player at his position, whether it's here or somewhere else. There isn't a James Jones contract to be had here.

 

[adambr2]

As much as i've liked Hawk and his time here, I think he may be the odd man out. He's too slow for the passing game and approaching too slow for the run game too. Knowledge on the field is great, but if you can't keep up on the field, it won't matter. They have other leaders on defense that will fill that knowledge gap.

I'm not a big fan of Jones, but he is at least offering some skills in the pass game. I see them keeping at least one of those inside guys. I thing both could be upgraded at this point, but if it was as easy and just putting someone else in there, they would have already I think.

There's no way I can see Jones back for $4.75M next year. He takes a pay cut or he's gone. I agree that Hawk is probably gone as well.

There's no easy solution but they already have put someone else in there this season as you suggested they would if they could. Multiple times this season Jones and Hawk have been benched while they tried Lattimore, Barrington, and even Matthews in the middle.

It's much easier to look for external options in the offseason than it is during the season and I think they'll certainly make it a priority to upgrade from both of these guys.

 

[Mondio]

But Barrington is going on 2 years in the system too, though he was on IR last year. That's one thing the staff does is place emphasis on continuity, thats why I think at least one of them will be back. I hope they're upgraded though.

 

[brandon2348]

Not 33-50% of your salary, that's for sure.

It's certainly advantageous to play for a winner, but it doesn't overrule a far below market deal.

Rodgers got paid, Matthews got paid, Shields got paid, Nelson got paid. It's possible that he might settle for slightly less here than he would get as an unrestricted free agent to sign here before free agency hits, or if he gets the franchise tag, but there is no chance of a $5M-$6M annual contract. Like someone pointed out, Cobb and Nelson were at very different points in their careers when they were ready to sign their first post-rookie contract deal.

Cobb is going to get paid around the market value for a player at his position, whether it's here or somewhere else. There isn't a James Jones contract to be had here.

Depends who you are and this goes back to the type of guys TT drafts. Players sign for less all the time.

I never said Cobb was going to get low-balled and we don't know that TT has offered Cobb a deal already similar to Nelson's 1st extension. Every player and situation is different. I think the deal will be somewhere around 7-8 mill a year if I had to guess.

I don't see them giving him more then Jordy and I am sure another team out there would be willing too. With that said I expect Cobb to be a Green Bay Packer next year.

Once again, Get 7-8 mill a year and be a Green Bay Packer and play with Aaron Rodgers or get 9-10 mill and go get your *** kicked somewhere like Jacksonville? Easy decision for me.

Also, when you go leave a certain situation and become the franchise go to guy and the only real weapon somewhere else you have to evaluate the fact that your gonna get a whole lot more "wear and tear" which can easily shorten your career.

 

[adambr2]

Depends who you are and this goes back to the type of guys TT drafts. Players sign for less all the time.

Who? Can you give a recent example of a Packer who was near free agency and accepted significantly less than he could have gotten elsewhere? I know it's mostly speculative, since we really don't know how they would have done in free agency if they had signed before, but I'm just looking for some precedent here. I seriously doubt Shields would have done better in free agency than what he got here.

Once again, Get 7-8 mill a year and be a Green Bay Packer and play with Aaron Rodgers or get 9-10 mill and go get your *** kicked somewhere like Jacksonville? Easy decision for me.

Well, you also have to consider the point the guy is at in his career. I can't speak for whether or not Jennings is happy in Minnesota (he says he is), but he was, I believe, 30 when he signed. It's going to be the last major free agency deal he gets in his career, so in a situation like that it's entirely understandable if a guy is looking to hit paydirt. I know the difference between $8M and $9M doesn't seem like a big deal, but that's 12%. If I got a 12% raise today, that would be a pretty significant thing for me.

Contrast that to Cobb who is only 24, and assuming he stays healthy and productive, will probably be in line for another big contract somewhere in 4-6 years depending on how long he signs for. So yes, it's certainly possible that he may consider that his QB situation for his next contract may impact his future one and this might convince him to take a little less. But almost never for a significant discount. It only takes one play to wind up like Jermichael Finley and then it doesn't matter who was throwing you the ball.

 

[brandon2348]

Who? Can you give a recent example of a Packer who was near free agency and accepted significantly less than he could have gotten elsewhere? I know it's mostly speculative, since we really don't know how they would have done in free agency if they had signed before, but I'm just looking for some precedent here. I seriously doubt Shields would have done better in free agency than what he got here.



Well, you also have to consider the point the guy is at in his career. I can't speak for whether or not Jennings is happy in Minnesota (he says he is), but he was, I believe, 30 when he signed. It's going to be the last major free agency deal he gets in his career, so in a situation like that it's entirely understandable if a guy is looking to hit paydirt. I know the difference between $8M and $9M doesn't seem like a big deal, but that's 12%. If I got a 12% raise today, that would be a pretty significant thing for me.

Contrast that to Cobb who is only 24, and assuming he stays healthy and productive, will probably be in line for another big contract somewhere in 4-6 years depending on how long he signs for. So yes, it's certainly possible that he may consider that his QB situation for his next contract may impact his future one and this might convince him to take a little less. But almost never for a significant discount. It only takes one play to wind up like Jermichael Finley and then it doesn't matter who was throwing you the ball.

Well I hope Jennings is happy with his contract and Minnesota because that's all he going to get. He ain't gonna make anymore money from "Old Spice commercials" or any other big endorsement deals and he might not ever see the post-season again I can assure that. The guy sold out and I am happy it worked out for him as it has turned out he obviously isn't worth the money he got. I am all about the player getting paid so I don't understand your argument but it comes down to personal choice and there are many other factors involved then just a deal that is usually partially guaranteed. Michael Bennett took a little less to stay with a Super Bowl team in Seattle. Everyone knows Shields would of commanded more money if he tested market harder.

I can spend time looking up more examples but I don't believe Cobb will follow the same steps Jennings did so it's a wasted effort.

Lastly, Jennings could of been a guy that had multiple pro bowls and maybe another super bowl ring or rings. He could of gone down in the books as statistically one of greats, at the very least in Packer history. He gave a lot up for a couple mill and we will never know. Now he gets to go out and lose in a "Purple costume" Hope it was worth it Gregg.

 

[brandon2348]

There's no way I can see Jones back for $4.75M next year. He takes a pay cut or he's gone. I agree that Hawk is probably gone as well.

There's no easy solution but they already have put someone else in there this season as you suggested they would if they could. Multiple times this season Jones and Hawk have been benched while they tried Lattimore, Barrington, and even Matthews in the middle.

It's much easier to look for external options in the offseason than it is during the season and I think they'll certainly make it a priority to upgrade from both of these guys.

I would have to believe both Hawk and Jones are as good as gone as there playing time has diminished and the defense is playing better with them not on the field as much. At the very least I could not see them retained for the money they would command next year vs the salary cap. Both have minimal "dead money" numbers so it would make the timing very friendly to move on. I would imagine ILB would be a major point of emphasis in the off-season as Safety was last year.

 

[adambr2]

Everyone knows Shields would of commanded more money if he tested market harder.

This is just not true. Shields got paid. He definitely didn't leave money on the table to remain a Packer.
Alterraun Verner got 4 years and $26.5M in free agency coming off a Pro Bowl season -- he was at least as attractive of an option in free agency for teams, if not more. The guarantees are similar, but Shields got far more in per year average. There's no way Shields would have beaten 4/39 as a UFA.

Jennings was actually offered $10M a year from the Packers at one point in time. As we know, Raji was offered a very large contract and had to settle for significantly less than that from us as a FA.

Sometimes these guys gamble on their own confidence and lose. But I've yet to see anyone who obviously took significantly less than they would have been worth on the open market to stay. We'll see what Cobb does, but I would be willing to bet it takes somewhere in the ballpark of $8-$10M minimum, or the franchise tag, to keep him.

 

[brandon2348]

This is just not true. Shields got paid. He definitely didn't leave money on the table to remain a Packer.
Alterraun Verner got 4 years and $26.5M in free agency coming off a Pro Bowl season -- he was at least as attractive of an option in free agency for teams, if not more. The guarantees are similar, but Shields got far more in per year average. There's no way Shields would have beaten 4/39 as a UFA.

Jennings was actually offered $10M a year from the Packers at one point in time. As we know, Raji was offered a very large contract and had to settle for significantly less than that from us as a FA.

Sometimes these guys gamble on their own confidence and lose. But I've yet to see anyone who obviously took significantly less than they would have been worth on the open market to stay. We'll see what Cobb does, but I would be willing to bet it takes somewhere in the ballpark of $8-$10M minimum, or the franchise tag, to keep him.

I think we got a steal on Shields when you look at what corners were getting paid this off-season. He is a pure "cover corner" with 4.2-4.3 speed. Go find that and tell me how easy it is. I don't want Verner. I want Shields.

Please give me an example of a receiver that has left Green Bay that has done anything special anywhere else? Cobb is good for our offense but our offense is more good for Cobb. It is important here to not overvalue a guy when considering our system that continues to produce no matter who TT and MM seem to throw in it.

I want Cobb back as much as anyone else but you don't break the bank for him. We can replace Randle Cobb if we had too way way easier then we can replace Aaron Rodgers and the system.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think we got a steal on Shields when you look at what corners were getting paid this off-season. He is a pure "cover corner" with 4.2-4.3 speed. Go find that and tell me how easy it is. I don't want Verner. I want Shields.

Please give me an example of a receiver that has left Green Bay that has done anything special anywhere else? Cobb is good for our offense but our offense is more good for Cobb. It is important here to not overvalue a guy when considering our system that continues to produce no matter who TT and MM seem to throw in it.

I want Cobb back as much as anyone else but you don't break the bank for him. We can replace Randle Cobb if we had too way way easier then we can replace Aaron Rodgers and the system.

I agree that the great QB make receivers better but I also think you need to pay for receivers to stick around (just don't pay too much). I mean, how much better could the Favre lead Packers have been had he had some true #1 WRs to throw the ball to? I don't want to see the Packers strip the offense of players/depth but I don't think Cobb should get paid on the same level as Nelson.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I simply said I can see another team or teams offering him more money. We see this all the time and if the player's goal is to just to get the biggest contract then I have no problem with that. Go get paid. I am just saying career wise it didn't work out that well for Greg Jennings and many others.

Hmmm, leave Aaron Rodgers and a playoff team every year or go get my *** kicked playing with sum bum QB and loser franchise for a little more money? Easy decision for me.

It's an easy decision for you because it's imaginary money, it's not yours. Define a "little more" money. A five year deal averaging $500,000 more per year might not seem like a lot but it adds up to $2.5 million. That's more money than most Americans will see in their entire lives. Fans want players to be on their teams and play "for the honor of being a player on team X"...I rarely see employees in ANY other industry asked to take massive paycuts just to work for the local mining company or credit union.

 

[brandon2348]

You guys just don't get it. Have you not been around awhile or seen how TT runs things or operates? He will not hit the "panic button" on the Randle Cobb contract. He will try to re-sign Randle Cobb for a contract that I repeat "Is good for Randle Cobb and the Packer organization.

Worse case scenario is Cobb just wants to get paid whichand expects some Percy Harvin type contract which I don't expect to be the case he would get franchised and then TT drafts a guy like this in 2nd round and coach him up. I really do expect Randle Cobb to remain a Packer.

TT will not bend nor should he.

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[adambr2]

I think we got a steal on Shields when you look at what corners were getting paid this off-season. He is a pure "cover corner" with 4.2-4.3 speed. Go find that and tell me how easy it is. I don't want Verner. I want Shields.

I'm not sure how this supports your argument at all. I just told you what the most comparable corner to Shields got, and it wasn't even close to what Sam got. I'm not even sure what FA corner deals in 2014 you are referring to that Shields looks like a bargain in comparison to, but there aren't any. No corner got more on a per year basis. You're overrating Shields. He's a good corner, not a great one. Just because he is very fast doesn't make him an elite corner. You can want whichever one you want but I gave you the closest FA comparison to Shields to illustrate my point. Do you honestly believe that Shields' agent had all these feelers from teams ready to offer him over $10M a year and after waiting for 4 years to get to free agency, Sam decided at the last minute to say "Screw it, I want to stay in Green Bay?"

Based on what Verner signed for you could much more easily argue that TT overshot the corner market rather than scored a bargain with Shields.

Please give me an example of a receiver that has left Green Bay that has done anything special anywhere else? Cobb is good for our offense but our offense is more good for Cobb. It is important here to not overvalue a guy when considering our system that continues to produce no matter who TT and MM seem to throw in it.

I want Cobb back as much as anyone else but you don't break the bank for him. We can replace Randle Cobb if we had too way way easier then we can replace Aaron Rodgers and the system.

I never argued against any of this. I simply stated what I think it will take to retain Cobb, not whether we should or shouldn't.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm not sure how this supports your argument at all. I just told you what the most comparable corner to Shields got, and it wasn't even close to what Sam got. I'm not even sure what FA corner deals in 2014 you are referring to that Shields looks like a bargain in comparison to, but there aren't any. No corner got more on a per year basis. You're overrating Shields. He's a good corner, not a great one. Just because he is very fast doesn't make him an elite corner. You can want whichever one you want but I gave you the closest FA comparison to Shields to illustrate my point. Do you honestly believe that Shields' agent had all these feelers from teams ready to offer him over $10M a year and after waiting for 4 years to get to free agency, Sam decided at the last minute to say "Screw it, I want to stay in Green Bay?"

Based on what Verner signed for you could much more easily argue that TT overshot the corner market rather than scored a bargain with Shields.



I never argued against any of this. I simply stated what I think it will take to retain Cobb, not whether we should or shouldn't.

Umm, take a gander at this and get back to me. http://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/

His contract averages 5 plus million less then the top paid corners and is a shorter term.

Like I said every player and situation is different. Shields was paid for his production and him being an ascending player. Look at his production last year vs top receivers. Shields isn't Deion Sanders material no but he is a top 5 "cover corner" in this league as he can play man to man. You can keep Verner.

 

[adambr2]

Umm, take a gander at this and get back to me. http://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/

His contract averages 5 plus million less then the top paid corners and is a shorter term.

Like I said every player and situation is different. Shields was paid for his production and him being an ascending player. Look at his production last year vs top receivers. Shields isn't Deion Sanders material no but he is a top 5 "cover corner" in this league as he can play man to man. You can keep Verner.

Of course it does. Because he's not a top corner. You're showing me a link proving Shields is the 7th highest paid corner in the NFL on a per year basis and you're still claiming he could have done better in FA?

I don't know if you know more about Verner than what you can pull off a stat sheet or not, but you'd be thrilled with his production for what the Bucs signed him for in free agency, and all-around, when considering all aspects of corner skills, he isn't a second rate corner to Shields. He's younger, he's been more durable in his career and equally as productive.

Shields is not a top 5 in the NFL cover corner. He's probably the best pure cover corner on the team, but I wouldn't find it ridiculous to argue that Tramon is better. I'm even giving him the benefit of the doubt as he hasn't had a real great season. I actually like Shields but I can't believe anyone would argue he's bigger than a 4/39 guy in FA. I'm not sure if anyone here was saying we got a bargain when it was signed, but I'm sure it wasn't the consensus. As I recall most were glad to have him back but thought we paid a pretty heavy price to do so.

 

[brandon2348]

Of course it does. Because he's not a top corner. You're showing me a link proving Shields is the 7th highest paid corner in the NFL on a per year basis and you're still claiming he could have done better in FA?

I don't know if you know more about Verner than what you can pull off a stat sheet or not, but you'd be thrilled with his production for what the Bucs signed him for in free agency, and all-around, when considering all aspects of corner skills, he isn't a second rate corner to Shields. He's younger, he's been more durable in his career and equally as productive.

Shields is not a top 5 in the NFL cover corner. He's probably the best pure cover corner on the team, but I wouldn't find it ridiculous to argue that Tramon is better. I'm even giving him the benefit of the doubt as he hasn't had a real great season. I actually like Shields but I can't believe anyone would argue he's bigger than a 4/39 guy in FA. I'm not sure if anyone here was saying we got a bargain when it was signed, but I'm sure it wasn't the consensus. As I recall most were glad to have him back but thought we paid a pretty heavy price to do so.

Then look at those numbers against top receivers and go play with Verner. Sherman at 14 mill per year or Shields at 9? Thank god TT understands value the way he does.

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