The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Mondio]

No. Not at all. I was just pointing out that if you were going to criticize the GM for picking Love there should have certainly been as much or even more outrage for picking Rodgers back in 2005. There was some but not nearly what we hear now. And as much as the 2020 team needed some help the 2005 team needed a lot more help but it was not at QB at that time. As much as Favre played his games he had years left and TT knew it. I do not say that Love was a bad pick. I say that the GM looked for a QB for the future in light that Rodgers may not be there in 3 or 4 years either due to injury of which he had plenty or due to contract issues which were far less a factor with Brett Favre back in 2005.

I was on a different board back then and I remember the time around picking Rodgers as being much more contentious than picking Love. Magnitudes more contention, fire, hate, displeasure, mutiny amongst the fans whatever you want to call it. It was not a happy time on most Packer boards. I remember demonstrations outside Lambeau, during mini camps and Training camp etc. It was a very different reaction than Love being chosen.

Sure there were some that may have been upset, but overall, the majority of the major dissension seemed to be surprise they chose a QB when they did, but the level of displeasure never seemed to come close to when Rodgers was picked. At least it did not seem that way to me. and when the switch was finally made I think went much less smoothly than what we just went through.

 

[Half Empty]

Amen brother Amish. That is one of the things I really liked about Rodgers. The R-E-L-A-X year when he said we are going to win out and they did. The teams attitude change and momentum behind his leadership was awesome to watch. Last year he almost pulled off the same thing with a late season winning streak while playing injured, which I am sure motivated his teammates.

R-E-L-A-X was 2014. Not a great finish to the year.

'Run the table' was 2016. Again, getting crushed at the end.

 

[AmishMafia]

I was on a different board back then and I remember the time around picking Rodgers as being much more contentious than picking Love. Magnitudes more contention, fire, hate, displeasure, mutiny amongst the fans whatever you want to call it. It was not a happy time on most Packer boards. I remember demonstrations outside Lambeau, during mini camps and Training camp etc. It was a very different reaction than Love being chosen.

Sure there were some that may have been upset, but overall, the majority of the major dissension seemed to be surprise they chose a QB when they did, but the level of displeasure never seemed to come close to when Rodgers was picked. At least it did not seem that way to me. and when the switch was finally made I think went much less smoothly than what we just went through.

I think many of those who were outraged understood in a few years they were wrong. This go around they were far more understanding the need to daft a QB before it Is a critical need. Sadly, not everyone learned.

 

[Schultz]

I was just wondering why is it sad?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Probably realistic. I am not in favor of 3 years to develop a QB. Their careers are short. And there is no Triple A or minor league in football. But that is still the common thought. And it was when Favre played as well. Roger Staubach was in the Navy serving the country. He could have been a starting QB a year or so out of the Academy.

While I agree with the idea that it would be great to have a rookie QB step in and play well from the start of his career until the finish, it rarely happens. So whether a QB is developing on the field or off the field, it typically takes time.
Rodgers wasn't particularly sharp his first year starting (year 4). Favre, same thing. Patrick Mahomes is a QB that comes to mind that has played pretty well from day 1, but I would say he is an exception to most cases of QB's needing time. Now I would agree that a QB probably stands a better chance of speeding up his development by playing real games. However, I also think that doing so before he is somewhat ready, runs the risk of ruining or impeding his development.

I know a lot of people still don't like the Love pick, but if I had to draw a map up of how to develop a quality starting QB in the NFL, especially a late 1st round pick, it would include 3 years of learning from and behind a FHOF QB.

 

[PikeBadger]

It's a fact the coaching staff believed it was better to have Boyle as the backup all season long in 2020. You're just speculating that Love would have started instead of him if Rodgers got hurt. You don't have any evidence to back up that statement though.



If Love is able to deeply understand opposing defenses he will be a successful quarterback in the NFL. We have no idea if he's capable of doing that at this point though.



The Bears went 5-11 during Trubisky's rookie season despite having the ninth ranked scoring defense.



That's a huge reach to suggest something like that.



What's the point of using a first rounder on a prospect to use him as trade bait some years down the road? It would be way smarter to select a player that could actually help at that point instead.



The point some of us are trying to make is that 2020 wasn't the right time to find Rodgers' successor though.



At this point we have no idea if Love ends up being any better than some of the quarterbacks you listed. In addition there would have been other ways to bring in a starting quarterback as well.



It might be smart for Jaire to think before talking sometimes.

Then I'm reaching huge every single year. In my book, rookies (especially early in the season) are assumed weaknesses and if I were coach I would be looking early and often to abuse the poor b@stards every time they stepped onto the field.

 

[OldSchool101]

We will just have to disagree that it was a worse decision to draft a quarterback in the first round at that point compared to 2020. With that being said there was a ton of criticism of Thompson for selecting Rodgers.

When we’re talking about finding a replacement QB there are many factors outside of sports odds of winning a SB though. I’m convinced that the main factor that precipitated the Packers finding Rodgers replacement was 3 consecutive seasons of pedestrian Offense. The next was they deemed Rodgers as difficult to work with and it’s been well known and documented so it’s not a guess. Then there’s a conviction GMs have about BAP and it’s funny how in the past posters in here supported it, but the second we make a tough choice of standing by our philosophy they pretend to jump ship. Then there’s another reality..

Offenses ranked:
2017 21st
2018 14th
2019 15th
That doesn’t exactly give me warm fuzzies for a deep Championship Run imo

It adds unnecessary pressure on a first year starter who has to deal with a lot anyway though.

A guy goofing around puts pressure on Jordan? Cmon really? I think you’ve underestimated Jordan’s confidence he’s not that timid.
Jordan Love is smart enough to know he’s not the #1 QB nor is he expected to be. Any QB expecting to live up to that would be fooling themselves. Heck Rodgers can’t even really say that anymore. Who cares what J’aire says it’s just him having fun is all. He likes Jordan and that’s what’s important.

 

[Schultz]

The 2019 team ranked 15th in offense. Love was not going to help improve that. The team was 13-3 in 2019. IMO another player selected instead of Love could have possibly helped improve the team. Most if not all of us pro-Rodgers guys have said if Love wins a SB or even turns into a quality NFL QB then Gute was right and we were wrong. (By the way my Love has to win a SB was more of a shot at the SB or bust crowd.) Yet I haven't heard a peep from the pro-Love crowd that another pick just may have helped in one or both of the 2020 & or 2021 playoff losses. Just a lot of condescending shots, mostly at (off the field) Rodgers, but sadly at some of us also.

 

[AmishMafia]

The 2019 team ranked 15th in offense. Love was not going to help improve that. The team was 13-3 in 2019. IMO another player selected instead of Love could have possibly helped improve the team. Most if not all of us pro-Rodgers guys have said if Love wins a SB or even turns into a quality NFL QB then Gute was right and we were wrong. (By the way my Love has to win a SB was more of a shot at the SB or bust crowd.) Yet I haven't heard a peep from the pro-Love crowd that another pick just may have helped in one or both of the 2020 & or 2021 playoff losses. Just a lot of condescending shots, mostly at (off the field) Rodgers, but sadly at some of us also.

Wondering why is it sad?

Do you think I'm pro-Love and anti-Rodgers? I am neither. I am pro-Packers. When you focus on a player you tend to miss the big picture. I think Rodgers was the greatest QB in Packer history and top 5 all-time. But he was no where near his elite level and it was time to move on. Would a player other than Love have helped us on the field? Maybe. Did drafting Love spur Rodgers to focus on team success more and play better? Maybe. But we will never know for sure, but both are probably true. Personally, I think drafting Love helped more than drafting a wr.

 

[Schultz]

Wondering why is it sad?

Do you think I'm pro-Love and anti-Rodgers? I am neither. I am pro-Packers. When you focus on a player you tend to miss the big picture. I think Rodgers was the greatest QB in Packer history and top 5 all-time. But he was no where near his elite level and it was time to move on. Would a player other than Love have helped us on the field? Maybe. Did drafting Love spur Rodgers to focus on team success more and play better? Maybe. But we will never know for sure, but both are probably true. Personally, I think drafting Love helped more than drafting a wr.

I believe you are anti off the field as well as recently on the field Rodgers which can't help but have an effect on your position on Love. Similarly, I am pro on the field Rodgers and do not think he is done which definitely effects my position on the drafting of Love. Simple as that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I believe you are anti off the field as well as recently on the field Rodgers which can't help but have an effect on your position on Love. Similarly, I am pro on the field Rodgers and do not think he is done which definitely effects my position on the drafting of Love. Simple as that.

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[PikeBadger]

Wondering why is it sad?

Do you think I'm pro-Love and anti-Rodgers? I am neither. I am pro-Packers. When you focus on a player you tend to miss the big picture. I think Rodgers was the greatest QB in Packer history and top 5 all-time. But he was no where near his elite level and it was time to move on. Would a player other than Love have helped us on the field? Maybe. Did drafting Love spur Rodgers to focus on team success more and play better? Maybe. But we will never know for sure, but both are probably true. Personally, I think drafting Love helped more than drafting a wr.

Something hardly ever mentioned here is it didn't hurt Rodgers motivation to fix his throwing mechanics. Something he admitted needing fixing. He had gotten sloppy for a few years with way too much throwing off the back foot.

 

[milani]

While I agree with the idea that it would be great to have a rookie QB step in and play well from the start of his career until the finish, it rarely happens. So whether a QB is developing on the field or off the field, it typically takes time.
Rodgers wasn't particularly sharp his first year starting (year 4). Favre, same thing. Patrick Mahomes is a QB that comes to mind that has played pretty well from day 1, but I would say he is an exception to most cases of QB's needing time. Now I would agree that a QB probably stands a better chance of speeding up his development by playing real games. However, I also think that doing so before he is somewhat ready, runs the risk of ruining or impeding his development.

I know a lot of people still don't like the Love pick, but if I had to draw a map up of how to develop a quality starting QB in the NFL, especially a late 1st round pick, it would include 3 years of learning from and behind a FHOF QB.

Well, it is done and both Gute and the Packers and the fans must deal with it one way or another. I think the Bengals were fortunate to get a QB who could start his first year although injury kept him at bay until the next season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

R-E-L-A-X was 2014. Not a great finish to the year.

'Run the table' was 2016. Again, getting crushed at the end.

Yet the Packers went 20-4 in those two seasons after Rodgers made those comments.

Rodgers wasn't particularly sharp his first year starting (year 4).

The Packers finished fifth in points scored that season. I consider that to be pretty good for a first year starter.

I know a lot of people still don't like the Love pick, but if I had to draw a map up of how to develop a quality starting QB in the NFL, especially a late 1st round pick, it would include 3 years of learning from and behind a FHOF QB.

Rodgers is the only example in recent memory that has worked out that way. Packers fans falsely believe that automatically means Love will end up being successful as well.

Then I'm reaching huge every single year. In my book, rookies (especially early in the season) are assumed weaknesses and if I were coach I would be looking early and often to abuse the poor b@stards every time they stepped onto the field.

It's true that most rookies take time to adjust to the NFL game but you're taking it too far by mentioning that another prospect selected could have hurt the Packers more than their first rounder not being active all season long.

Take a look at the Chiefs last season as an example. On defense, they had four rookies significantly contributing to them winning the Super Bowl with Trent McDuffie, Jaylen Watson, George Karlaftis and Joshua Williams playing a significant amount of snaps in the playoffs. They even played nearly the entire AFCCG against the Bengals with three rookie cornerbacks after L'Jarius Sneed was injured after only four snaps. In addition Isiah Pacheco contributed on offense as well.

When we’re talking about finding a replacement QB there are many factors outside of sports odds of winning a SB though. I’m convinced that the main factor that precipitated the Packers finding Rodgers replacement was 3 consecutive seasons of pedestrian Offense. The next was they deemed Rodgers as difficult to work with and it’s been well known and documented so it’s not a guess. Then there’s a conviction GMs have about BAP and it’s funny how in the past posters in here supported it, but the second we make a tough choice of standing by our philosophy they pretend to jump ship. Then there’s another reality..

Offenses ranked:
2017 21st
2018 14th
2019 15th
That doesn’t exactly give me warm fuzzies for a deep Championship Run imo

Rodgers was injured most of 2017 so there's no point of bringing it up. It was obvious that McCarthy had lost the locker room back in '18, therefore it's not smart to put too much stock into that season either. There were a lot of posters who suggested it takes at least one year for a quarterback to excel in MLF's system. So it might have been smart for the team to consider that as well.

A guy goofing around puts pressure on Jordan? Cmon really? I think you’ve underestimated Jordan’s confidence he’s not that timid.
Jordan Love is smart enough to know he’s not the #1 QB nor is he expected to be. Any QB expecting to live up to that would be fooling themselves. Heck Rodgers can’t even really say that anymore. Who cares what J’aire says it’s just him having fun is all. He likes Jordan and that’s what’s important.

I guarantee opponents will have taken notice of Jaire saying something like that and use it as motivation.

Would a player other than Love have helped us on the field? Maybe. Did drafting Love spur Rodgers to focus on team success more and play better? Maybe. But we will never know for sure, but both are probably true. Personally, I think drafting Love helped more than drafting a wr.

Personally, I think that it's bogus.

Something hardly ever mentioned here is it didn't hurt Rodgers motivation to fix his throwing mechanics. Something he admitted needing fixing. He had gotten sloppy for a few years with way too much throwing off the back foot.

It's truly amazing the length some of you go to justify the selection of Love.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well, it is done and both Gute and the Packers and the fans must deal with it one way or another. I think the Bengals were fortunate to get a QB who could start his first year although injury kept him at bay until the next season.

Right. The Bengals also selected Burrows with the first pick in the 2020 draft. This is a luxury (#1 pick) that the Packers have only had twice in franchise history. In 1957 they used the #1 pick in the draft on Paul Hornung and in 1959, QB Randy Duncan.

Due to their success, it's not really that surprising that in the last 30 years the Packers have often found themselves picking late in round 1. Probably another variable that played heavily into the 2020 selection of Jordan Love.

 

[Mondio]

Something hardly ever mentioned here is it didn't hurt Rodgers motivation to fix his throwing mechanics. Something he admitted needing fixing. He had gotten sloppy for a few years with way too much throwing off the back foot.

I think part of that started when he played a lot of that season with a undisclosed knee injury he had taken care of that offseason. I suspected a tibial plateau injury, bruise at the very least, which prevented him from really stepping into stuff or using his front plant leg much at all and that motion carried over so he had to re-train himself.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think part of that started when he played a lot of that season with a undisclosed knee injury he had taken care of that offseason. I suspected a tibial plateau injury, bruise at the very least, which prevented him from really stepping into stuff or using his front plant leg much at all and that motion carried over so he had to re-train himself.

No, no, no... you're off-narrative. The best QB in NFL history needed a raw rookie to "push" him to be a great QB. See, in this version of events, Rodgers has gotten lazy (because all great professional athletes are inherently lazy, right?) and then, when Gute drafted a rookie who was extremely raw Rodgers was like, "OMG! The packers decided to draft a player who won't help me win a Super Bowl so now I really have to start trying instead of just lolly-gagging around" and THAT'S why drafting Love was worth it! Don't you dare bring up any other potential reason for Rodgers to have had a down year!

 

[Half Empty]

And he still couldn't do it.

 

[OldSchool101]

The 2019 team ranked 15th in offense. Love was not going to help improve that. The team was 13-3 in 2019. IMO another player selected instead of Love could have possibly helped improve the team. Most if not all of us pro-Rodgers guys have said if Love wins a SB or even turns into a quality NFL QB then Gute was right and we were wrong. (By the way my Love has to win a SB was more of a shot at the SB or bust crowd.) Yet I haven't heard a peep from the pro-Love crowd that another pick just may have helped in one or both of the 2020 & or 2021 playoff losses. Just a lot of condescending shots, mostly at (off the field) Rodgers, but sadly at some of us also.

Sure, Tee Higgins or whatever could’ve helped us win an extra game. I thinks it’s still highly unlikely he puts us over the top to win a SB in his 900 yard rookie season though (2020). But is it possible? Yes. In my best guess I’d say a 10-20% chance we Win a SB in a do over.

In 2021 we didn’t even make it past the Divisional. While that was a WR like Tee best chance? If you recall we were playing in very harsh conditions. We watched 2 of the best players in the league struggle. Kittle and Adams even struggled.
George Kittle was the leading SF receiver with 63 yards. Davante Adams had 90. If you’re trying to sell me that Tee Higgins was going to push that score from 13-10 up? Both teams combined for
306 yards total (average 153 yards)
15 1st down passing total
5 yards per play average
53 Offensive plays average

due to wind and cold it was slippery. Those relatively low numbers are evidence of adverse weather. Rookie Tee Higgins isn’t better than Kittle or Adams and him in the passing game is unlikely to have some dramatic impact in that phase.

Give me a healthy David Bakhtiari AND Tee Higgins and now we’re cooking with gas.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Sure, Tee Higgins or whatever could’ve helped us win an extra game. I thinks it’s still highly unlikely he puts us over the top to win a SB in his 900 yard rookie season though (2020). But is it possible? Yes. In my best guess I’d say a 10-20% chance we Win a SB in a do over.

In 2021 we didn’t even make it past the Divisional. While that was a WR like Tee best chance? If you recall we were playing in very harsh conditions. We watched 2 of the best players in the league struggle. Kittle and Adams even struggled.
George Kittle was the leading receiver with 63 yards. Davante Adams had 90. If you’re trying to sell me that Tee Higgins was going to push that score from 13-10 up? Both teams combined for
306 yards total (average 153 yards)
15 1st down passing total
5 yards per play average
53 Offensive plays average

due to wind and cold it was slippery. Those relatively low number are evidence of adverse weather. Rookie Tee Higgins isn’t better than Kittle or Adams and him in the passing game is unlikely to have some dramatic impact in that phase.

Methinks you're completely ignoring how having more than one good receiving weapon affects the way defenses have to play against an offense. Elite defenses could easily stack their coverage against Adams with the sure knowledge that Lazard and Cobb weren't exactly game breaking threats. The Packers were very close to winning both games, one more good player on the field (rather than watching from the bench) could have been a significant difference maker. I'm not saying that Higgins/Pittman would have been some elite receiver that took over the game, just stating that he would have been far more helpful than the guy sitting on the bench.

 

[OldSchool101]

I guarantee opponents will have taken notice of Jaire saying something like that and use it as motivation.

Opponents probably don’t even care about that J’aire stuff. That’s if they even heard it.

 

[milani]

Methinks you're completely ignoring how having more than one good receiving weapon affects the way defenses have to play against an offense. Elite defenses could easily stack their coverage against Adams with the sure knowledge that Lazard and Cobb weren't exactly game breaking threats. The Packers were very close to winning both games, one more good player on the field (rather than watching from the bench) could have been a significant difference maker. I'm not saying that Higgins/Pittman would have been some elite receiver that took over the game, just stating that he would have been far more helpful than the guy sitting on the bench.

One better player on our ST might have been the difference.

 

[AmishMafia]

No, no, no... you're off-narrative. The best QB in NFL history needed a raw rookie to "push" him to be a great QB. See, in this version of events, Rodgers has gotten lazy (because all great professional athletes are inherently lazy, right?) and then, when Gute drafted a rookie who was extremely raw Rodgers was like, "OMG! The packers decided to draft a player who won't help me win a Super Bowl so now I really have to start trying instead of just lolly-gagging around" and THAT'S why drafting Love was worth it! Don't you dare bring up any other potential reason for Rodgers to have had a down year!

Well, you could look at history and how Rodgers stated the slight on draft day is what spurred him to achieve success and how he wanted to rub his success in the noses of the rest of the GMs in the NFL. Then you have to think of how Rodgers expressed himself how upset he was when the Packers picked Love. Then you have to apply what you learned of Rodgers from the first situation to the 2nd.

Then you have to watch the games and note Rodger's play over those seasons in an objective manner. Note his mannerisms, scowls, and attitude.

If you want, you can listen to journalists who are talking to players, coaches, and others who have reported a similar sentiment. To a degree that is obvious and accepted by most.

Or you can just ignore all of those (and more) and just contunually make excuses for Rodgers followed by repeating the mantra "Rodgers is a HOF QB".

 

[OldSchool101]

Methinks you're completely ignoring how having more than one good receiving weapon affects the way defenses have to play against an offense. Elite defenses could easily stack their coverage against Adams with the sure knowledge that Lazard and Cobb weren't exactly game breaking threats. I'm not saying that Higgins/Pittman would have been some elite receiver that took over the game, just stating that he would have been far more helpful than the guy sitting on the bench.

Again. Tee Higgins in his rookie season was about Lazards best season. Those guys were like 300 yards apart across a 17 game season. You’re telling me that a slight upgrade from Lazard is going to make a significant difference. I doubt that in 2020. But very slightly possible ok.
I doubt it even more in 2021 where we were in Brutal weather and it significantly damaged the passing game. When is the last time 2 playoff teams had a total of 104 plays on Offense combined? Or when is the last time a playoff team has a punt blocked for 7 points at home? How about factor those 2 together.

I already said Tee is more impactful than a QB2. That’s a no brainer for back then. That was then, this is now, it’s Jordan Love time.

 

[Schultz]

One better player on our ST might have been the difference.

Or how about LaJarius Sneed with that 4th round pick that was used in the trade. Maybe Kevin King is not on the field in the TB loss if GB has Sneed.