Studs n Duds vs The Vikings

Heyjoe4

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I agree. I think it’s obvious we are NOT the best team in the NFC. For myself? I think the Lions and Vikings are both playing high level ball. Detroit is like a machine that doesn’t stop. I’m amazed how physical they play I wish we played more like them in Defense. Branch and Joseph are REALLY good players. I can’t believe everyone passed on Branch last draft. Joseph has 9 INT and he’s not even done. That’s crazy. He might have double digits INT and some teams don’t have that.

I know people mostly won’t agree. I have Detroit and Minnesota #1-2
I think Philly is a very close #3 and GB is just a hair behind Philly. Philly is Like -1.5 on a betting scale over us. I think Detroit is -2.5 and MN -3.5 favorites against us. Washington or LA is a shave under GB like +1.5 behind us. I welcome playing at Philly, actually matched up really good last meeting. Our Run D mitigated Saquon to 3.8 per carry which was impressive.
There's not much to argue about in your ranking. We'll find out Sunday if MN is better than Detroit. I don't think so.

The Packers are going to have to take a big step up to go far in the playoffs. Yeah they lost those 5 games by a total of 22 points, but they lost. So it's time, as Kevin Greene once said.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I agree. I think it’s obvious we are NOT the best team in the NFC. For myself? I think the Lions and Vikings are both playing high level ball. Detroit is like a machine that doesn’t stop. I’m amazed how physical they play I wish we played more like them in Defense. Branch and Joseph are REALLY good players. I can’t believe everyone passed on Branch last draft. Joseph has 9 INT and he’s not even done. That’s crazy. He might have double digits INT and some teams don’t have that.

I know people mostly won’t agree. I have Detroit and Minnesota #1-2
I think Philly is a very close #3 and GB is just a hair behind Philly. Philly is Like -1.5 on a betting scale over us. I think Detroit is -2.5 and MN -3.5 favorites against us. Washington or LA is a shave under GB like +1.5 behind us. I welcome playing at Philly, actually matched up really good last meeting. Our Run D mitigated Saquon to 3.8 per carry which was impressive.

For me, there is no question that the Lions are the best NFC team right now. What is even more scary, look at their IR. Imagine if they had the health that the Packers have had.

 

Heyjoe4

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For me, there is no question that the Lions are the best NFC team right now. What is even more scary, look at their IR. Imagine if they had the health that the Packers have had.

Wow I knew Detroit was hurting on D, but not this much. The Vikings are healthy. Even so, and even with the injuries, I like the Lions as the best team in the NFC.
 

tynimiller

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There's not much to argue about in your ranking. We'll find out Sunday if MN is better than Detroit. I don't think so.

The Packers are going to have to take a big step up to go far in the playoffs. Yeah they lost those 5 games by a total of 22 points, but they lost. So it's time, as Kevin Greene once said.

And even if MN beats them, just means they were better that day. I still think it is a coin toss amongst many of the the playoff teams honestly....if you told me we were gonna see Commanders win two meaning they likely went into Detroit or Philly or MN and won I'd not be shocked one bit.
 

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I believe the Lions have about 19 or 20 free agents in 2025. Some were among those lost this season. The Packers have somewhere around 13 free agents. Several of ours are on our IR list as well.

When you compare the two rosters, the Packers have a lot of catching up to do, because there's several guys on their IR list who are going to make them a lot stronger next season, when they come back. Of course, that's assuming they don't blow it in the draft, or get caught up in cap problems due to the large number of FAs they'll want to keep, and are UFAs.

To get better, the Packers need to do a lot of catch up at CB, and defensive line, as well as a couple of changes on the offensive line, and depth in a lot of positions.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I believe the Lions have about 19 or 20 free agents in 2025. Some were among those lost this season. The Packers have somewhere around 13 free agents. Several of ours are on our IR list as well.

When you compare the two rosters, the Packers have a lot of catching up to do, because there's several guys on their IR list who are going to make them a lot stronger next season, when they come back. Of course, that's assuming they don't blow it in the draft, or get caught up in cap problems due to the large number of FAs they'll want to keep, and are UFAs.

To get better, the Packers need to do a lot of catch up at CB, and defensive line, as well as a couple of changes on the offensive line, and depth in a lot of positions.

I would also add "available cap space" as a big influence on rosters in 2025.

If this chart is correct, currently The Bears, Vikings and Lions all have more available cap in 2025 than the Packers. Of course, we know how restructures, cuts, trades and signings can change all of that in one stroke of the pen.

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milani

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Yeah there is a lot of value in wearing out a D early, and an 8-minute scoring drive will do that. And with Jacobs, such a drive is very possible.

MLF has to find a way to spark the offense early. They have had some memorable comebacks this year - especially the two games v the Vikings, but a loss is a loss.

I'm pretty sure players get energized once they start post-season play. That certainly happened to the Packers last year. I'd love to see at least a return to the NFCCG. But the 5 losses this year are significant. If the Packers are going to prove that they can beat solid teams, it will have to be in the playoffs, and it's likely to start in Philly.
The 1,2, and 3 seeds are top tier. They have the strong offensive lines and QBs with big numbers. I doubt any of them will forget to show up like Dallas last season. We really need a shot at Tampa or LA to have a chance for a second game.
 

milani

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The center moving the ball does seem like it complicates things. That is the way all centers do it though. What I saw was Cooper moving literally 1/2 an inch about 4 really quick times in succession just before the snap. It was bizarre looking. So I think it was called on him, though I doubt those little movements put him in the neutral zone. But probably did catch the eye of the ref.
Correct. Had he not moved at all the ref does not call it. The ref somehow got baited. I see no infraction.
 

milani

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There's not much to argue about in your ranking. We'll find out Sunday if MN is better than Detroit. I don't think so.

The Packers are going to have to take a big step up to go far in the playoffs. Yeah they lost those 5 games by a total of 22 points, but they lost. So it's time, as Kevin Greene once said.
The game is in Detroit which should give the Lions a slight advantage. But I believe the Viking D is better right now than the banged up Lion D. This game could be like the Bill victory in Detroit. I give the passing game to Minny and the running game to Detroit. Lions kicker is a little better and that could be the difference. These 2 coaches have had a number of battles.
 

Voyageur

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I would also add "available cap space" as a big influence on rosters in 2025.

If this chart is correct, currently The Bears, Vikings and Lions all have more available cap in 2025 than the Packers. Of course, we know how restructures, cuts, trades and signings can change all of that in one stroke of the pen.

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The amount available is an important issue no doubt about it. Then you need to add in how many of your A list players are on that FA list, and how much you need to invest in them, to keep them. Multiply that by the number of players you need to retain, then think about how many picks you're going to have in the draft. As an example, the Vikings only have 3 draft picks in 2025, which means they have to bring in free agents. They may have to low ball players they want to keep, to insure they have enough cash available, to sign several FAs. It's a real juggling act.
 

Half Empty

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This definitely was a game deciding play, and the replay officials should have been able to see it. I have no idea why these people are making the kind of wages they do, then not having the guts to make the tough decisions. If an official blows a call, he blows it, and they need to change it on the spot. The idea that it "destroys the integrity of the game" is pure BS.

The front office whines that it will take too long to play a game. They say people were complaining. So, they changed the out of bounds ruling on plays. They run the clock on a lot of plays which would have stopped the clock. Did it actually shorten the game?

Yes. They shortened the game itself. What they didn't shorten is the time that it takes to play a game, on our clocks. The roughly 15 to 20 minutes they shaved off the game itself was then added in as officials time outs, and stoppages of play where they could insert more advertising. In fact, the time outs are two-minutes long. Check it on a stopwatch. They are longer. There is at least two-minutes of commercials during each time out, and there is time before, and after it was called as well. In fact, if you time the commercials, you'll find that the time outs are often about 3 minutes long, and sometimes even longer. The networks stick as many commercials as possible in, and stretch that 2 minutes constantly, to give them more advertising dollars. An additional thing that has existed for 60 years is a person on the sideline, from the network, who wears a cap, and when they can resume play, removes it. The network determines the actual time consumed, and nobody challenges it.

They shortened the game, but the time is just as long from start to finish as it was 60 years ago. They're lying to us. The complaint that games will run too long with more reviews is them saying they aren't going to do it unless they get to use that extra time to sell more commercials and get more money from the networks. It's coming though. Wait for it.
Record it, then zip through what you don't like.
 

DoURant

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The Vikings dominated the game for 52 minutes and were vastly superior.
I'll give you that the Vikings overall were Superior.... However they didn't dominate the first 52 minutes. The Packers were winning 3-0 after the first period, and the Vikings punted their first 2 possessions in that timeframe.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Record it, then zip through what you don't like.
That is my approach for most Sports.

Stay away from People and the news, if the outcome is THAT important for me not to know.

Packer night games I watch live, but a noon or 3:30 game? I usually start watching, from the beginning, an hour after the game started. With FF through commercials and halftime, I usually hit live around the 4th Q or a bit later.

I will say that knowing the outcome and then watching it, isn't much fun at all. It is like someone spoiling the plot twist and the ending of a movie and then trying to watch it.
 

McKnowledge

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Spot On!

Basically the NFL is a Money Making Machine Monopoly and they know it. The little things they do to placate fans, usually is tied in with ways they can make more money. Do you think a 17th game was added just so fans could be treated to an extra game? Do you think playoffs were expanded to 14 teams to give more teams a shot? Instant replays just to get it right or have a chance to run more commercials? Do you think that the TV coverage of the schedule release is a big event? Was flex scheduling enacted for the benefit of fans?

On and on and on....and yes...I am a hypocrite for bitching about it, while still being a fan. Some day I will join PFA, Packer Fans Anonymous, and kick the habit, hopefully I don't doink that kick or it will be shown over and over again.

While I don't fully disagree with this idea, if you do bring in say, Davante Adams, what does your depth chart look like?

Basically, who of Reed, Doubs and Watson gets a lot few snaps?

Also, does that mean you give up on Wicks, because now he is 5th on the DC.

I like all 4 of the WR's we have right now. However, I agree with you, to this point, none of them are a strong #1. Will that change in 2025? Do you find that #1 through Free Agency, the draft or a trade?

What I am not in favor of is committing a ton of money to a guy like Tee Higgins and then have that hurt our depth chart.

I have parameters for any acquisition. The WR1 coming in needs to match the same timeline as Jordan Love.

Love will enter next season approaching his age 27 season.

If Green Bay drafts a WR, that receiver needs to have played at least 30 games.

If acquired through free agency, Green Bay needs to sign a WR in their prime or ascending.

Haven't been paying too much attention to WRs on the collegiate level, but a player like Tee Higgins would be a perfect weapon for Love and LaFleur.

Any money committed to a player of Higgins stature matches the timeline of Love's current contract, age, and is an immediate upgrade over all current WRs.

Too many quality WRs is good problem to have, and the WR that doesn't make the cut has good trade value.
 

DoURant

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CB DJ Reed of the Jets was asked if he was coming back next year.... he basically said No, he is going to test FA.... not I will assess my future after the season... he said NO! There is 1 game left in the season for them, and to make a statement like that definitely speaks volumes about how he feels about the Jets organization.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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CB DJ Reed of the Jets was asked if he was coming back next year.... he basically said No, he is going to test FA.... not I will assess my future after the season... he said NO! There is 1 game left in the season for them, and to make a statement like that definitely speaks volumes about how he feels about the Jets organization.
Just imagine if the NFL had a transfer portal, there would be a mass exodus from the Jets.

I can't blame any Jets starter that wants out and can get out due to his contract ending. What a trainwreck that organization has been.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I have parameters for any acquisition. The WR1 coming in needs to match the same timeline as Jordan Love.

Love will enter next season approaching his age 27 season.

If Green Bay drafts a WR, that receiver needs to have played at least 30 games.

If acquired through free agency, Green Bay needs to sign a WR in their prime or ascending.

Haven't been paying too much attention to WRs on the collegiate level, but a player like Tee Higgins would be a perfect weapon for Love and LaFleur.

Any money committed to a player of Higgins stature matches the timeline of Love's current contract, age, and is an immediate upgrade over all current WRs.

Too many quality WRs is good problem to have, and the WR that doesn't make the cut has good trade value.
Despite not having that spectacular yardage numbers, due to his 10 TD's and age (25), I think Higgins will get a huge contract. Otherwise, not really much left at this time, expect older WR's that have dropped off in production.

If the numbers worked out, I'd be all over Diggs being a Packer. He hasn't had a very good season in Texas, but unless he took the big bucks and slowed down, 2025 might be a prove it contract for a now 31 year old WR.

1) Tee Higgins, Cincinnati Bengals
2) Amari Cooper, Buffalo Bills
3) Chris Godwin, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
4) Stefon Diggs, Houston Texans
5) DeAndre Hopkins, Kansas City Chiefs
6) Diontae Johnson, Baltimore Ravens
7) Hollywood Brown, Kansas City Chiefs
8) Keenan Allen, Chicago Bears
9) Elijah Moore, Cleveland Browns
10) Mike Williams, Pittsburgh Steelers
 

shockerx

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Im out on all those guys. We are avg. 30 points a game over the last 5 games. Let's keep the other team under 30 and we win alot. Put the Higgins dollars into the D...again DB and DL. Honestly i think our WR and TE will be even better next year. Just use are TEs 8-10 targets a game and it will be like adding an extra weapon to the offense. the O gonna be okay.
 

McKnowledge

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Despite not having that spectacular yardage numbers, due to his 10 TD's and age (25), I think Higgins will get a huge contract. Otherwise, not really much left at this time, expect older WR's that have dropped off in production.

If the numbers worked out, I'd be all over Diggs being a Packer. He hasn't had a very good season in Texas, but unless he took the big bucks and slowed down, 2025 might be a prove it contract for a now 31 year old WR.

1) Tee Higgins, Cincinnati Bengals
2) Amari Cooper, Buffalo Bills
3) Chris Godwin, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
4) Stefon Diggs, Houston Texans
5) DeAndre Hopkins, Kansas City Chiefs
6) Diontae Johnson, Baltimore Ravens
7) Hollywood Brown, Kansas City Chiefs
8) Keenan Allen, Chicago Bears
9) Elijah Moore, Cleveland Browns
10) Mike Williams, Pittsburgh Steelers

Well Higgins scores touchdowns, he won't get much yardage with Chase racking up targets and YAC.

Outside of Godwin or Allen, I'm good on these other WRs.

Diggs isn't worth the headache.
 

tynimiller

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There isn’t a wide receiver that is gonna take too (was supposed to say top) money I feel is worth it this off season.
 
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Voyageur

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No matter what players we like the #1 objective of the Packers is to improve areas of the game that needs to be elevated, through the draft and free agency. Don't make an area of the team better even though it was already pretty good, because that's using cap money to fix something that's not broken.

That's the problem with a lot of GMs. They think they need to have a hundred playmakers, and they don't do anything productive in giving the support they need to succeed. Look at what's happened in Chicago. You'd think they'd understand that investing in offensive linemen who can block might help them win games. But, they'll waste money fixing what ain't broke again.
 

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I wouldn't say that TT or Gute spend either cap money on free agents or high draft capital on luxury picks where the position is not one of need. Where I think they leave holes in the roster is when they double or triple down at a position of need. That can succeed in fixing that position such as safety last off-season but it leaves too few picks to fix other positions.
 
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