Packers vs Texans Studs n Duds

[Pokerbrat2000]

What will be paramount is our DL. Clark and company cannot get dominated by rushing attacks. They have to force teams to go outside.

Well if they are going to force runners outside, they need to remind Preston, Van Ness, Enagbare and Gary to contain the outside. Sometimes I think all 4 of those guys are so focused on sacks, they forget about containing the edges.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Gee, I thought they looked sharp. I got a kick out of how the fans followed suit. It looked great on TV. The Pack did wear Packers colors, just not as much as they normally do.

I liked then uniforms a lot too, especially the white helmets. Don't get me wrong, the Packers are green and gold. This was just a cool change of pace, and it did look great with the fans also wearing white.

 

[Heyjoe4]

What will be paramount is our DL. Clark and company cannot get dominated by rushing attacks. They have to force teams to go outside.

Agreed. There is no question the front four on the D need to pay better. Hafley intended them to be fast and aggressive and move quickly to the backfield. That ain't happening and maybe the shoe just doesn't fit. Let the Edge guys and LBs do their thing, and keep dropping down any one of the excellent safeties now and then. That safety group is very athletic. Make the most of it.

And Wilson sure used Walker's absence to his advantage. They have to find ways to get him in the game.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It's a testament to how out of touch a LOT of our fan base is to just how "lightning striking three times" our current scenario appears to be....our QB play for the fast majority of three decades has been amazing; and this has created out of our fanbase a section that is truly ignorant to just how hard high level QB play in the NFL is.

Love just needs to be Love, his own guy. As you point out, elite QB play is rare in the NFL. They all have one thing in common, they learn from mistakes. Love kept his cool on the last drive, something he's struggled with before. That drive was important for a lotta reasons.

 

[tynimiller]

Well if they are going to force runners outside, they need to remind Preston, Van Ness, Enagbare and Gary to contain the outside. Sometimes I think all 4 of those guys are so focused on sacks, they forget about containing the edges.

That's odd folks have been screaming bloody murder they have been playing contain too much and not enough attack...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's odd folks have been screaming bloody murder they have been playing contain too much and not enough attack...

Personally, I would rather see pressures and containment (of QB and outside runs) over just sacks. Sacks are nice, but when the OC knows that he can count on those DE's to take a straight line to the QB, its pretty easy to design plays to take advantage of it. If you watch Rashan Gary and LVN, both of those guys are guilty of it. The sacks will come, especially with our secondary playing much better this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not sure if someone explained this elsewhere, but if you were like me, you were wondering why the Packers got the ball at the 25 and not the 40, after the Texans kicked the ball out of bounds.

This explains it. Also shows you how coaches knowing the rules and loopholes is important.

How the Texans exploited a little-known kickoff loophole against the Packers

The new dynamic kickoff rules have some unforeseen implications, one of which Ka'imi Fairbairn of the Texans exploited on Sunday.

www.espn.com

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Something that's crossed my mind a few times this season, and really really stood out to me yesterday, is that this young team ofen looks as though the spectacular success they all had together the last half of 23 went to their heads, and on some level they're taking it for granted. I think many of them may still be too young and inexperienced to realize how rare an achivement like that was in the NFL, and how disciplined a team has to be and how hard a team usually has to work in order to make that happen.

I hope I'm wrong, because that's a very bad state of mind for a team to fall into, but I don't think i am. I've seen something very similar happen a couple of times in hockey, and it's a tough pattern to break out of. Hopefully, yesterday was a kick in the *** wake-up call that they need to play smarter and more disciplined ball; it's starting to get a little worrisome that Lafleur doesn't seem to be having any luck getting this message across.

I agree with you except Alexander is a vet and he couldn't seem to keep his mouth shut.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Yeah. It looked weird. Not like a Packer game. And we didn't play well in them either.

It wasn't the uniform that bothered me. It was the helmets. I'm so used to seeing the gold helmets.....

 

[tynimiller]

Personally, I would rather see pressures and containment (of QB and outside runs) over just sacks. Sacks are nice, but when the OC knows that he can count on those DE's to take a straight line to the QB, its pretty easy to design plays to take advantage of it. If you watch Rashan Gary and LVN, both of those guys are guilty of it. The sacks will come, especially with our secondary playing much better this season.

I shared going into the Texans we were one of the best in pressures

 

[Thirteen Below]

I also think it's kind of funny to hear things like "He needs to be more Rodgers and less Favre." I mean, I guess if I had it my way I'd prefer that, too...but it's not like Favre was some slouch, either. If Love "only" ends up like Favre that's still a smash success. He's literally a HoF QB lol.

Personally, I've been a huge Love supporter ever since the first half of last year's season opener against the Bears, and while I was starting to get a little worried during that one sub-par stretch early in 23, I was still confident he was going to work it out. People on multiple boards ridiculed me almost from the beginning, because by October I was openly proclaiming that he had the talent and the mental makeup to go as far as he wants to, including the Super Bowl and HoF.

I never predicted that he was going to achieve those heights, but I knew from watching him that he had all the ingredients to do it. In 13 months I have never wavered in that conviction, and I am literally thrilled to have him as our QB - and I think just about every other poster on this board feels the same way.

But that doesn't mean we don't want him to improve as a player, and it certainly doesn't mean we're complaining about him. Of course we all want him to play better when he has a bad game, or even a good game where he didn't quite play up to his level. Every single play and every single game, you want every team and every player on that team to improve themselves in some way. That's what separates winners from losers.

Can you imagine a coach in the NFL telling his players (even after a big win) "you all played as well as you needed to play today, don't worry about trying to improve on anything for next weekend. Just play as well as you played today, and we'll be fine"? Of course not. Every coach knows there's always room for improvement, and expects even his star players to constantly do so. Anything less would be complacency, the acceptance of mediocrity. Why should we, as fans, feel any differently? If he's capable of playing better (and we know he is) then we want to see him do it.

I will say, though, that just because I'd like to see him throw as few interceptions as possible, I can live with a higher number than we saw last year. Last year, his TD:INT ratio was 3:1. That was phenomenal (Mahomes, Brady, Burrow). This year, it's 2:1, and yeah a lot of fans are really freaking out about it, but I'm not.

Historically, 2:1 is not a bad ratio at all - we've just gotten spoiled by Aaron Rodgers, Mr. 4:1 (a ratio that will never be topped). Historically, 2:1 has always been an acceptable range for franchise quarterbacks who are successful in other phases of the game. Love's 2:1 is "Joe Montana" and "Philip Rivers" level, just a couple ticks below Steve Young and Peyton Manning and way ahead of Dan Marino and Kurt Warner.

Granted, I'd like to see him improve on it, and I believe he will. But if that's where he comes in at the end of his career, and he's accomplished what those players did, I think we'd all be extremely pleased.

 

[milani]

Well if they are going to force runners outside, they need to remind Preston, Van Ness, Enagbare and Gary to contain the outside. Sometimes I think all 4 of those guys are so focused on sacks, they forget about containing the edges.

I think we have the speed to get outside and cover the edge but when the DL gets beat off the ball it forces the LBs to try and stuff the interior.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Love just needs to be Love, his own guy. As you point out, elite QB play is rare in the NFL. They all have one thing in common, they learn from mistakes. Love kept his cool on the last drive, something he's struggled with before. That drive was important for a lotta reasons.

I loved this take on it, from SI's Coleton Orr -

My colleague Albert Breer was a little more spartan on Jordan oveL than I was Monday morning and you can listen to our discussion on the MMQB podcast here. Breer liked the idea of Love exploring all parts of the field as he hones his sense of what he can and cannot do. I have seen a few weeks of vacillation, and while the highs are incredible and Love throws one of the most beautiful balls in the league, it also motivates him to take some really interesting chances, or believe he can drive a ball without properly setting his feet all the time.

I like this way of looking at it. A lot calmer, more big picture... not so much panic and depserate urgency.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Good point pac. Yeah it's a three-man operation and all need to execute. A great snapper and a great holder are required. I missed the bad snap on the game winning kick. Nice job by Whelan to assist in the save/win.

Unfortunately with the Packers, they've even had blocking break downs leading to blocked kicks. Their ST are such a mess that it's not just the snapper, holder and kicker you need to worry about.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I loved this take on it, from SI's Coleton Orr -



I like this way of looking at it. A lot calmer, more big picture... not so much panic and depserate urgency.

Yeah it's a good description of where Love is in only his second year as starter. He's still trying things out while focusing on a win. I don't care about the mistakes as long as he corrects them. He's simply taking more risk. If the benefit outweighs the negative consequence, then try it.

 

[Guacamole]

Not sure if someone explained this elsewhere, but if you were like me, you were wondering why the Packers got the ball at the 25 and not the 40, after the Texans kicked the ball out of bounds.

This explains it. Also shows you how coaches knowing the rules and loopholes is important.

How the Texans exploited a little-known kickoff loophole against the Packers

The new dynamic kickoff rules have some unforeseen implications, one of which Ka'imi Fairbairn of the Texans exploited on Sunday.

www.espn.com

this is still confusing

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

this is still confusing

It wasn't written very well, I had to read it twice and slowly, before I understood it.

Think of it this way, the "penalty" for a kickoff out of bounds is spotting the ball 25 yards from where it is kicked. So if the kickoff is from the normal 35 and kicked out of bounds, the ball is spotted at the receiving teams 40 (25 yards from where it was kicked). If you kick from the 50, which the Texans did and it goes out of bounds, the ball is spotted at the other teams 25.

In the case on Sunday, the 15 yard personnel foul on the Packers, after the FG, was enforced on the kickoff, allowing the Texans to kick from the 50. Had they kicked it into the EZ, the ball gets spotted at the 30. What Fairbairn and the Texans were correctly trying to do, is kick it as close to the corner of the field (near EZ) as possible, maybe forcing a return or at worse, going out of bounds and spotting the ball at the 25. Very smart play on their part.

What I still don't understand, is if you watch the kickoff, one of the Texans moved early and it wasn't flagged.

Let's just say the whole sequence had me scratching my head.

 

[Thirteen Below]

this is still confusing

It's totally baffling.

I understand why they wrote the new rules regarding kickoffs. I get why it's important, and I support the intent. But the problem is, a kickoff is such a simple, basic play - you kick the ball, other guy catches it and tries to run it back, you try to tackle him - that any change you try to make is guaranteed to make it a lot more complicated. There's just no way around it, and no way to explain it in a simple way.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's totally baffling.

I understand why they wrote the new rules regarding kickoffs. I get why it's important, and I support the intent. But the problem is, a kickoff is such a simple, basic play - you kick the ball, other guy catches it and tries to run it back, you try to tackle him - that any change you try to make is guaranteed to make it a lot more complicated. There's just no way around it, and no way to explain it in a simple way.

I also think the NFL is using "trying to make it safer", by applying new twists. Well I got news for them, the whole game is dangerous. I may be statistically incorrect, but I see more injuries during regular play, than I do on kickoff returns.

Wanna make returns exciting and less dangerous? Put 3 guys out there for each team and kick it off!

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree with you except Alexander is a vet and he couldn't seem to keep his mouth shut.

JA never keeps his mouth shut. I could live with it if he was still playing at an all-pro level, but it's been a long time since that last happened.

I don't mind these guys giving each other **** on the field. That happens in all pro sports. JA just takes it too far. It reflects a lack of discipline - and immaturity.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Think of it this way, the "penalty" for a kickoff out of bounds is spotting the ball 25 yards from where it is kicked.

Thanks. Now it makes sense.

I was always thinking that you just spot it at 40 rather than thinking you spot it 25 yards from the kickoff point (which 99.9% of the time is the 40). Conversely, if Houston had the penalty and kicked from the 20, an out of bounds kick would then be at their 45 yard line.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

JA never keeps his mouth shut. I could live with it if he was still playing at an all-pro level, but it's been a long time since that last happened.

I don't mind these guys giving each other **** on the field. That happens in all pro sports. JA just takes it too far. It reflects a lack of discipline - and immaturity.

Agree.

I think celebrating after making a great play is a fun part of football, as is a little smack talk, after that great play. However, there are times when you can see Jaire not even involved in a play and he's getting up in other players grills after the end of the play. Now I know he would tell you that its just his way of getting in the other players heads, but to me when its play after play, it gets obnoxious and unnecessary. I am waiting for the game when he gets flagged for it and that 15 yards is costly.

As far as his individual play goes. Jaire is still a top 20 CB in the NFL and while I don't like his high salary, he's a very dependable CB. I do wish he hustled a bit more and tackled better, but if it wasn't for his mouth, I would say he is doing a Kenny Clark type of job on defense.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It's totally baffling.

I understand why they wrote the new rules regarding kickoffs. I get why it's important, and I support the intent. But the problem is, a kickoff is such a simple, basic play - you kick the ball, other guy catches it and tries to run it back, you try to tackle him - that any change you try to make is guaranteed to make it a lot more complicated. There's just no way around it, and no way to explain it in a simple way.

Apparently all of these changes to the kickoff are designed to make the play safer. I think kickoffs and punts are still the plays where injury is most likely to occur, although kickoffs seem a lot safer now. Under the old rules, "gunners" would take off and reach full speed before running into someone. Easy to see where that could be dangerous.

I like the current kickoff rule. That weird situation in the Texans game will probably happen again, but rarely. I don't know if that's enough to justify a change to the current rule, probably not. I didn't know the placement of a ball kicked out of bounds was 25 yards from where it was kicked.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Thanks. Now it makes sense.

I was always thinking that you just spot it at 40 rather than thinking you spot it 25 yards from the kickoff point (which 99.9% of the time is the 40). Conversely, if Houston had the penalty and kicked from the 20, an out of bounds kick would then be at their 45 yard line.

That is why I was confused too, thinking an OB Kick was just automatically spotted at the 40, without thinking that it was actually being spotted 25 yards from where the ball was kicked.

I still wonder how the refs missed the movement by one of the Texan players, as the ball was being kicked. I thought that under the new rules, those players can't leave the LOS until the ball is caught or hits the ground. The only way I could explain the no penalty call is that a player can move, but still must reset his position behind the LOS before the ball is in play.

 

[Half Empty]

I may be statistically incorrect, but I see more injuries during regular play, than I do on kickoff returns.

By number of injuries or percentage? The fact that there are only a handful of kickoff returns should mean that there are a lot less injuries.