Packers vs Texans Studs n Duds

[Half Empty]

I think celebrating after making a great play is a fun part of football, as is a little smack talk, after that great play.

I'd be a lot more on board with this if there was a corresponding gesture of anguish for really bad plays.

 

[sschind]

I'd be a lot more on board with this if there was a corresponding gesture of anguish for really bad plays.

Like Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd be a lot more on board with this if there was a corresponding gesture of anguish for really bad plays.

What I get a "kick" out of is the defender who gets all excited because they made a big hit.....after a 10+ yard gain. NFL and College football may be a team sport, but for many playing it, it has clearly become an individuals conquest to make as much money as they possibly can.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes.

One of my all time favorite endings of a movie.

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[sschind]

One of my all time favorite endings of a movie.

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Im at work and my internet connection sucks. I was going to try to find something like this but I knew I could count on you.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I won't spoil it, but if you haven't watched the movie "Birdy" (Nicolas Cage and Matthew Modine), the ending is classic.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Im at work and my internet connection sucks. I was going to try to find something like this but I knew I could count on you.

You can always....Count....on me!

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[Pokerbrat2000]

By number of injuries or percentage? The fact that there are only a handful of kickoff returns should mean that there are a lot less injuries.

Valid point, so lets go with percentage. Anyone have the number?

 

[Poppa San]

I got a kick out of how the fans followed suit.

Fans were requested to wear white to the game.

Not sure if someone explained this elsewhere, but if you were like me, you were wondering why the Packers got the ball at the 25 and not the 40, after the Texans kicked the ball out of bounds.

This explains it. Also shows you how coaches knowing the rules and loopholes is important.

How the Texans exploited a little-known kickoff loophole against the Packers

The new dynamic kickoff rules have some unforeseen implications, one of which Ka'imi Fairbairn of the Texans exploited on Sunday.

www.espn.com

Packers were assessed a 15 yard penalty on the kickoff after the previous play for being stupid. They got the ball roughly 10-15 yards short of where they would most likely have returned a normal KO to. I don't see a problem with that. The spotting of a KO after a safety, as we saw in the PS, needs to be looked at. There is no real "penalty" to the team that gave up the safety on the ensuing KO like there used to be. Players still lined up where they do normally and there is no real advantage to the returner getting a longer free run before meeting defenders.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agree.

I think celebrating after making a great play is a fun part of football, as is a little smack talk, after that great play. However, there are times when you can see Jaire not even involved in a play and he's getting up in other players grills after the end of the play. Now I know he would tell you that its just his way of getting in the other players heads, but to me when its play after play, it gets obnoxious and unnecessary. I am waiting for the game when he gets flagged for it and that 15 yards is costly.

As far as his individual play goes. Jaire is still a top 20 CB in the NFL and while I don't like his high salary, he's a very dependable CB. I do wish he hustled a bit more and tackled better, but if it wasn't for his mouth, I would say he is doing a Kenny Clark type of job on defense.

Yeah his antics get in the way of the fact that he is a very good corner in the NFL. Because he draws so much attention to himself, it makes the bad plays seem worse somehow. And the work good corners do isn't called out a lot, many times because a good corner will take a good WR out of the play entirely.

 

[PackerDNA]

I have no problem with his fiery attitude is confidence his jawing at opponents. It gets him and his teammates fired up for the most part. It's his decisions sometimes. An example to me was against the eagles he picks off a pass in the end zone he should have downed it and taken the ball at the 20. Instead he dances around runs it out risk turning the ball back over and is down at what the 12? Otherwise I love his confidence. To play his position, you've got to have a lot of confidence and ego. All the great ones do.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packers were assessed a 15 yard penalty on the kickoff after the previous play for being stupid. They got the ball roughly 10-15 yards short of where they would most likely have returned a normal KO to. I don't see a problem with that.

That wasn't my point and I doubt they would have returned the ball to the 40.

My point was to explain the rule for a kick out of bounds penalty, which the Texans were vary aware of and took advantage of.

I think many of us assumed a kick out of bounds automatically put the ball at the 40. That isn't the case, the ball is spotted 25 yards away from where it was kicked. Had the Texans committed the PF penalty and it was enforced on their kickoff, instead of kicking at the 50, they would have been kicking from their own 20. A kick out of bounds would have given the Packers the ball on the Texans 45 yard line.

Now that I type that out, I understand why they made the rule "25 yards from where the ball is kicked". If it automatically got spotted at the 40, teams kicking from the 20, after such a penalty, would probably just kick the ball out of bounds.

 

[gopkrs]

I have no problem with his fiery attitude is confidence his jawing at opponents. It gets him and his teammates fired up for the most part. It's his decisions sometimes. An example to me was against the eagles he picks off a pass in the end zone he should have downed it and taken the ball at the 20. Instead he dances around runs it out risk turning the ball back over and is down at what the 12? Otherwise I love his confidence. To play his position, you've got to have a lot of confidence and ego. All the great ones do.

If the other receiver in the end zone would have blocked for him; he'd still be running.

 

[Poppa San]

That wasn't my point and I doubt they would have returned the ball to the 40.

My point was to explain the rule for a kick out of bounds penalty, which the Texans were vary aware of and took advantage of.

I think many of us assumed a kick out of bounds automatically put the ball at the 40. That isn't the case, the ball is spotted 25 yards away from where it was kicked. Had the Texans committed the PF penalty and it was enforced on their kickoff, instead of kicking at the 50, they would have been kicking from their own 20. A kick out of bounds would have given the Packers the ball on the Texans 45 yard line.

Now that I type that out, I understand why they made the rule "25 yards from where the ball is kicked". If it automatically got spotted at the 40, teams kicking from the 20, after such a penalty, would probably just kick the ball out of bounds.

My point now in hindsight is with the alignment always at the 35 and 40 for the blockers and defenders, there is no real penalty for the team kicking off. They can always and must boot it to the 20 with their defenders 20 yards away. The receiving team can be penalized (generic usage, not infraction) for messing up and gain no real advantage if the kicking team does.
ETAA: maybe give the offended team the option to enforce the penalty after the play is over.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

ETAA: maybe give the offended team the option to enforce the penalty after the play is over.

I would be in favor of this. Enforcing a personal foul should sting. In the case of Enagbare's PF after the made FG on Sunday, it only ended up costing the Packers 5 yards.

 

[sschind]

That wasn't my point and I doubt they would have returned the ball to the 40.

My point was to explain the rule for a kick out of bounds penalty, which the Texans were vary aware of and took advantage of.

I think many of us assumed a kick out of bounds automatically put the ball at the 40. That isn't the case, the ball is spotted 25 yards away from where it was kicked. Had the Texans committed the PF penalty and it was enforced on their kickoff, instead of kicking at the 50, they would have been kicking from their own 20. A kick out of bounds would have given the Packers the ball on the Texans 45 yard line.

Now that I type that out, I understand why they made the rule "25 yards from where the ball is kicked". If it automatically got spotted at the 40, teams kicking from the 20, after such a penalty, would probably just kick the ball out of bounds.

My question is was the 25 yards from the point of the kick a thing in seasons past and it just never came up or was it new to this year with the sweeping changes that were made to kickoffs. I would think its a new rule because I can't imagine it never being an issue before. Of course in the past it really didn't matter because kicking off from the 50 after a penalty was usually an automatic touchback and the ball came out to the 25 either way. The rules this season were based on the ufl or xfl or wtffl or whatever league they had last spring. Its possible that they basically took those rules and never really looked into it. If they keep these rules, which I think they will, I could see them tweak them a bit to prevent such things.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My question is was the 25 yards from the point of the kick a thing in seasons past and it just never came up or was it new to this year with the sweeping changes that were made to kickoffs. I would think its a new rule because I can't imagine it never being an issue before. Of course in the past it really didn't matter because kicking off from the 50 after a penalty was usually an automatic touchback and the ball came out to the 25 either way. The rules this season were based on the ufl or xfl or wtffl or whatever league they had last spring. Its possible that they basically took those rules and never really looked into it. If they keep these rules, which I think they will, I could see them tweak them a bit to prevent such things.

I did some digging and found a copy of the NFL Rule Book for 2020.

It states on page 25:

"Penalty: For a kickoff out of bounds: The receiving team may elect to take possession of the ball 25 yards from the spot of the kick or at the out-of-bounds spot."

https://operations.nfl.com/media/4693/2020-nfl-rulebook.pdf

 

[Thirteen Below]

I won't spoil it, but if you haven't watched the movie "Birdy" (Nicolas Cage and Matthew Modine), the ending is classic.

That scene on the rooftop is a classic line...

Nicolas Cage: "Birdy!! What's so funny?"
Mathhew Modine: "You, Al. You look so serious!"

 

[Thirteen Below]

Yeah it's a good description of where Love is in only his second year as starter. He's still trying things out while focusing on a win. I don't care about the mistakes as long as he corrects them. He's simply taking more risk. If the benefit outweighs the negative consequence, then try it.

I've been fortunate to have several widely different careers in my life (both working for others, and working for myself and/or my wife), and the salaried, W2 "job" job from which I finally retired a few years ago was asn the operations manager for a very large department of the American Red Cross. It was a community service program, dealing with the elderly and the disabled, and I had a nominal staff level of 114 employees under me.

One thing I always impressed upon my people (especially new hires) was that part of their job was to use their heads and not be aferaid to make mistakes. I especially told people in supervisory roles or positions of responsibility that I actually expected them to make mistakes - making mistakes was part of their job, because it meant they weren't afraid to try new things in order to do their jobs better. And if they weren't trying to improve, they weren't making maximum effort.

Most people had a hard time getting their heads wrapped around that at first, because they were used to getting into trouble for making mistakes, but they eventually got it. As long as they were making a good faith effort to do the best job they possibly could (and as long as the mistake wasn't in a safety-critical category), I didn't care about an occasional screw-up. All I cared about was that they learned from it; and of course I expected that they not be really stupid mistakes, and that they wouldn't become a pattern.

I'm hoping that the mistakes Love is making so far this year fall into that category - that he's just trying to see how far he can push himself without busting through his limitations. If that's what we're seeing here, I can live with a few of them in a game. I would just like to see fewer and fewer of them as the season goes by.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I also think the NFL is using "trying to make it safer", by applying new twists. Well I got news for them, the whole game is dangerous. I may be statistically incorrect, but I see more injuries during regular play, than I do on kickoff returns.

Wanna make returns exciting and less dangerous? Put 3 guys out there for each team and kick it off!

Yeah making one play "less dangerous" is kinda silly in a game where every play is dangerous.

I like the 3 on 3 idea. That would be the NFL's version of soccer's penalty kicks, or ending a tied game on free kicks.

Taking it seriously for just a second, I'd allow the kicking team to put four guys on the field, requiring the kicker to exit after kicking. It would certainly be interesting.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah making one play "less dangerous" is kinda silly in a game where every play is dangerous.

I like the 3 on 3 idea. That would be the NFL's version of soccer's penalty kicks, or ending a tied game on free kicks.

Taking it seriously for just a second, I'd allow the kicking team to put four guys on the field, requiring the kicker to exit after kicking. It would certainly be interesting.

We could see a game end with 5 or 6 straight TD's!

I guess if they want to make kickoffs safe but interesting, they could do a few fun things:

- Turn kickoffs into flag football. No tackling.
- Only offensive and defensive lineman can play on kickoffs (should slow it down)
- Before the ball is kicked, grease it up really well.
- 9 players from each team have to be blindfolded, only blindfolded players can touch the ball or make the tackle.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Water balloons.

Every player on each team is issued 6 water balloons, which they carry in a basket strapped to their chest. Instead of tackling the kick returner, the kicking team has to throw water balloons at him. If he's hit by a water balloon, he's down immediately.

For the receiving team - instead of risking injury by blocking the players covering the team, the receiving team throws water balloons at them. Anyone who's hit by a balloon has to go straight to the sideline, change into a dry jersey, and explain to Pam Oliver what he did wrong.

If the return man gets past all 11 defenders without getting hit by a balloon, he goes all the way for a touchdown.

You want excitement without risk of injury? There ya go. You can't ask for anything more. I'm frankly shocked that the NFL never thought of this before.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Water balloons.

Every player on each team is issued 6 water balloons, which they carry in a basket strapped to their chest. Instead of tackling the kick returner, the kicking team has to throw water balloons at him. If he's hit by a water balloon, he's down immediately.

For the receiving team - instead of risking injury by blocking the players covering the team, the receiving team throws water balloons at them. Anyone who's hit by a balloon has to go straight to the sideline, change into a dry jersey, and explain to Pam Oliver what he did wrong.

If the return man gets past all 11 defenders without getting hit by a balloon, he goes all the way for a touchdown.

You want excitement without risk of injury? There ya go. You can't ask for anything more. I'm frankly shocked that the NFL never thought of this before.

Instead of or in addition to water balloons, paint guns!