Studs & Duds in Chicago

[Heyjoe4]

Best young QB on rookie contract.
Intact top 5 defense.(def top 10 for argument sakes)
3 (most likely) top 35 draft picks one being top 5-10 the other 2 are (prob 33-38)
Deep playoff run/or SB win..... the Brass will have to pay what he wants.
Do you really think Ben Johnson would take the Dallas job over what's available in Chicago? Really the only thing wrong with our team is confidence and idiot coaches. Our future is bright once we cut out da tumors.
Of course I will concede. It's not 100% lock that we will get Ben Johnson but all things being equal. I'd say there's a 75% chance that he's our coach next year.

And again if we win that Green Bay game, none of this might happen so again , 11 in a row hurts, but you've actually done us a solid.

You can list all the reasons why Chicago SHOULD be winning more and why Chicago SHOULD be beating GB. Until Chicago actually proves that by winning some games, especially the Packers who still own the Bears, all your reasoning is just talk.

Sports is all about winning and losing. The Bears should have beaten the Commanders and the Packers. But they didn't, and that is all that matters.

(And maybe this will change, maybe not, but Jayden Daniels is the best QB on a rookie contract right now. He has his team winning more than losing. Not a dig on Williams, a very good rookie QB. Just what the record says.)

 

[Heyjoe4]

What polls are you talking about? The polls have been up and down on the Bears all year.

Or are you talking about the Bears GM Ryan Poles?

If you are, makes me question just how closely you follow the Bears.

CW does lead with his chin in this forum. Gonna get smacked once in a while.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah, I talk smack but I don't think I've ever been directly rude anybody without provocation and even with still don't think I've ever said anything or called anyone anything that would be uncouth?
This is a gentleman's disagreement about how the end of a game turned out. This days conversation I've been talking with another guy about living in Michigan and hockey teams so that's the problem with the country Nowadays is people are too sensitive and a little disagreement makes everybody lose their cool or blow their top when you're gonna run into a lot of things in life that you don't like and you better learn how to hand it and conduct yourself or you're gonna be pretty miserable in life .

I'm not so sure what you write in here is smack - to me that's taking a cheap shot at someone else. And sometimes you make sense and then throw it all away with a goofy comment like "I wouldn't give a plug nickel for GB's future the next 10 years."

That actually gets back to a comment Poker made, wondering how closely you follow not just your team, but football overall. Or are you just trying to irritate the Packer fans in here? If you are, it's not working.

 

[Heyjoe4]

In Kentucky, we used to have a minor-league team that played at Rupp Arena and my dad loves hockey too so we had season tickets right on the glass and even though it was just minor-league hockey it was fantastic!!!
That and because me and my dad didn't have the greatest relationship while I was growing up, it was real nice to spend time with him as adults.

Speaking of hockey, and Chicago - it was the early 90s, I think, and my company had four tickets to a Hawks' game at the old Chicago Stadium. I think it was the last season at the Stadium.

I had never been to a pro hockey game. We walked in just before the face off. A fight started right after the National Anthem and BEFORE the face off and there were a number of guys fighting. I knew fighting and hockey went hand in hand, but this was before the game started. (In fairness, that can happen in other pro sports.)

The fans went nuts. I know why they tore that place down. The upper deck was swinging back and forth from the fans going nuts. We thought the whole place was gonna collapse.

Our seats were low and just to the side of one of the goals, and just above the protection of the glass. I was sitting next to a lifelong Hawks' fan with season tickets, and very few teeth. It was a trip. Thankfully, we were pretty loaded by the time we got there. Even so, I remember how incredibly violent the perfectly legal "body check" is. I don't know how that glass holds up.

I might have my date wrong. I'm sure it was the last season at the Stadium. Regardless, I'm glad I got to see that place.

 

[Schultz]

Not sure how anyone could go to a Hawks game at the Stadium and not get goosebumps during the anthem.

 

[Magooch]

31st in QBR
28th in passer rating
21st in yards
23rd in TDs
31st in passing success rate
28th in AY/A
32nd in ANY/A
"Amazing for a rookie"

CW hasn't been dealt a great hand in many ways but "amazing" is being awfully generous IMO. He's had four good games, and six bad games (with two of the good ones coming against JAX and CAR, for what that's worth). The OL has been awful, Waldron as OC has been a failure, and Eberflus is an idiot, but at the same time in the preseason I can't tell you how many times I heard that Williams was stepping into "The best situation EVER for a rookie quarterback" or similar statements. All offseason long it was hearing about how they'd improved the OL and the defense was incredible and he'd have one of the best sets of weapons in the league and he'd easily be a 4000 yard passer. Seems to me that either Bears fans/media/etc were not doing a great job of objectively analyzing/evaluating their team then, or they're not doing a great job of objectively evaluating CW now, or maybe a bit of both. I think he's a good player with a lot of potential, but I'm pretty confident virtually every Bears fan in the offseason was sure that he'd look much better than he has thus far; no need to rewrite history on the matter

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

31st in QBR
28th in passer rating
21st in yards
23rd in TDs
31st in passing success rate
28th in AY/A
32nd in ANY/A
"Amazing for a rookie"

All that with what I consider to be a pretty talented backfield and Receiving room.

I don't follow the Bears close enough, nor would I ever, but I was under the impression before the season started that they were really excited about their offensive line. So I have to ask, is the offensive line responsible for CW having a bad rookie year or is CW responsible for the OL not looking as good as they actually are?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

CW does lead with his chin in this forum. Gonna get smacked once in a while.

The "good" news, Packers don't play the Bears again until the final game of the season. I'm ready to move on from this thread and talk about the Packers-49'ers game.

 

[Magooch]

All that with what I consider to be a pretty talented backfield and Receiving room.

I don't follow the Bears close enough, nor would I ever, but I was under the impression before the season started that they were really excited about their offensive line. So I have to ask, is the offensive line responsible for CW having a bad rookie year or is CW responsible for the OL not looking as good as they actually are?

Yeah, I'm not sure. Probably a bit of both directions, and to be fair I think some of it comes down to in previous weeks often not having any WRs schemed open. But even this is kind of incongruent, as I'd hear people saying on one hand that he doesn't have any time to throw and is immediately swarmed by the pass rush...while at the same time having (at the time) one of the higher "time-before-pressure" measures in the league. And now in the last week or so is being applauded for getting the ball out quickly. I guess all that to say that...early on a lot of the sacks suffered were more like coverage sacks and CW holding on to the ball too long rather than a failing of the OL.

And that's not to say there haven't been good flashes because there has. But like I said: I don't think he's been nearly as good as expected, and I don't think there was a single Bears fan in the world who would've told you heading into the season that Williams would be the 31st-ranked passer in the league and they'd say that was what they expected and that this would be "incredible".
His pressure-to-sack rate (just like it says: how many pressure situations result in sacks) is the worst in the league. You could look at that and say he's the worst in the league at avoiding sacks, or you could be more charitable and take it to mean that he has been put in worse situations (every time) than every other QB in the league, I guess. Again, probably somewhere in the middle. His "catchable throw" rate is also worst in the league. To have either one of those "honors" would be bad, but to have both? It's a worse rate than any of Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, or Bryce Young as rookies...

 

[Calebs Revenge]

You can list all the reasons why Chicago SHOULD be winning more and why Chicago SHOULD be beating GB. Until Chicago actually proves that by winning some games, especially the Packers who still own the Bears, all your reasoning is just talk.

Sports is all about winning and losing. The Bears should have beaten the Commanders and the Packers. But they didn't, and that is all that matters.

(And maybe this will change, maybe not, but Jayden Daniels is the best QB on a rookie contract right now. He has his team winning more than losing. Not a dig on Williams, a very good rookie QB. Just what the record says.)

Yeah, absolutely Jaden Daniels is having a very very good rookie year. I just think Caleb,all things considered, is doing better. Of course I'm biased, but our entire coaching staff is just really really bad.

 

[Magooch]

Yeah, absolutely Jaden Daniels is having a very very good rookie year. I just think Caleb,all things considered, is doing better. Of course I'm biased, but our entire coaching staff is just really really bad.

Feel like a better way to frame this argument would be something like "If Caleb Williams was in Washington and Jayden Daniels was in Chicago, Caleb would be doing better than Jayden". As it stands, "all things considered" I don't know how anyone could say with a straight face that Caleb is honestly doing better than Daniels - Jayden Daniels is quite literally better in every measurable way. Passes completed, completion percentage, yards, touchdowns, TD percentage, interceptions, INT percentage, first downs, passing success rate, long pass, yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, yards per game, passer rating, QBR, sacks taken, sack percentage, net yards per attempt, adjusted net yards per attempt, and 4Q comebacks/game winning drives. I mean, I guess *maybe* could stretch it to say "better" relative to their circumstances/surroundings but that's a tough case to make IMO.

 

[rmontro]

31st in QBR
28th in passer rating

He finished ahead of Love in QBR Sunday, although was behind in passer rating by quite a bit.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Not sure how anyone could go to a Hawks game at the Stadium and not get goosebumps during the anthem.

We got there just as the anthem was finishing. We hadn't even gotten to our seats yet. I think the fight must have started as the anthem came to a close. The place was sold out. It was wild and that place was swaying back and forth.

I'm not a hockey guy and had never been to an NHL game. Damn I thought football was violent. Violence defines the (perfectly legal) body check.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

I love that in every other sport a fight will get you fined and/or suspended but in hockey it's league sanctioned UFC and after you have to have a time out for 5 min.
Best ever was Darren McCarty going after that PO.S Claude lemiuex

 

[DoURant]

I love that in every other sport a fight will get you fined and/or suspended but in hockey it's league sanctioned UFC and after you have to have a time out for 5 min.
Best ever was Darren McCarty going after that PO.S Claude lemiuex

Oh boy, it was sweet revenge after Lemieux checked Draper face first into the boards the prior year. Here's that fight you mentioned where McCarthy went after the aforementioned POS.

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[Thirteen Below]

Not sure how anyone could go to a Hawks game at the Stadium and not get goosebumps during the anthem.

I never understood how anyone could go to a Hawks game at the "Madhouse on Madison" and not go completely deaf from that damned horn. The biggest reason that stadium was the loudest arena in the history of the NHL. A marine horn designed for oceangoing vessels up to 250 feet in length.

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The rivalry back in the 80s between the North Stars and the Hawks was almost legendary... the brawls, especially between Al MacInnis and Al Secord... when the games were in Minnesota, the entire Met Center would shake from 17,000 people bellowing "Secord sucks... Secord sucks"... blood all over the ice...

I might have my date wrong. I'm sure it was the last season at the Stadium. Regardless, I'm glad I got to see that place.

If you're sure it was the last seaason, then that rules out the Christmas 1989 pre-game brawl with the North Stars. That one was actually before the anthem, during warmups, when the referees were still getting dressed. There was nobody to break it up, and they fought for 25 minutes with the coaches just watching. 2 of the North Stars' assistant coaches finally went out and ordered their players back into the dressing room to get stitched up for the game.

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Edit: and for those of you who remember Al Secord, the Hawks brawling winger who started countless fights but probably never lost one.... when he retired from hockey, he spent the next 30 years of his life flyingBoeing 737s for American Airlines. Probably safe to say he never had trouble with an unruly passenger.

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[Schultz]

The thing about Secord is that he was actually a pretty good hockey player as well as a fighter.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

Oh boy, it was sweet revenge after Lemieux checked Draper face first into the boards the prior year. Here's that fight you mentioned where McCarthy went after the aforementioned POS.

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The way McCarty shadowed him and was just telling him "as soon as they drop that puck I'm gonna kick your a.z.z"
Then Lemieux just takes the turtle position and then later in the series Osgood and the other POS Roy going at it.
It's a special thing when two goalies in a hockey game getting a fight

 

[Calebs Revenge]

And the Browns about to wreck all our Thursday picks hahahahaha.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I love that in every other sport a fight will get you fined and/or suspended but in hockey it's league sanctioned UFC and after you have to have a time out for 5 min.
Best ever was Darren McCarty going after that PO.S Claude lemiuex

I don't remember that fight. But seeing body checks up close, near the glass, it's amazing those guys stay alive. And it's all within the rules of the NHL. It's interesting that during a fight, the refs do very little to try and break it up. Everyone is on ice and on skates. Probably a good idea.

 

[Heyjoe4]

And the Browns about to wreck all our Thursday picks hahahahaha.

What a lousy year for survival pools. I doubt there is anyone left standing at this point. I like this Steelers' team. A playoff team but not top 5 overall stuff. Maybe they were caught looking past the Browns.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Oh boy, it was sweet revenge after Lemieux checked Draper face first into the boards the prior year. Here's that fight you mentioned where McCarthy went after the aforementioned POS.

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Damn what a classic hockey fight. The announcer said it all "Welcome to real hockey!" - and the blood on the ice was an apt statement on the game.

Also interesting how long a teams' collective memory can go, and then exacting revenge.

 

[DoURant]

Damn what a classic hockey fight. The announcer said it all "Welcome to real hockey!" - and the blood on the ice was an apt statement on the game.

Also interesting how long a teams' collective memory can go, and then exacting revenge.

Draper suffered a broken jaw, broken cheek bone, broken nose, and a concussion from the check from behind that he took in the playoffs the prior year. McCarty and Draper were linemates and best friends, a Mutt and Jeff if you will.
Draper is not a fighter, but his best friend was, and everyone knew who was going to settle this duspute. The tension was in the air for any fan of Detroit hockey, everyone knew something would happen after the first game in Colorado was pretty tame.

Tge first period started out with under card fights, and then it was a Royal Rumble. What i think is amazing, is McCarty only received a double minor for roughing when he smoked Lemieux, to get this melee in full flight, at the end of period 1. Then the 2nd period started with a fight 4 seconds in, and the fighting persisted in throughout the period. Lost in all this was a game for the ages, maybe the most exciting game i ever watched. It had numerous fight, tons of goals, just an edge of your seat game, culminating with the "hero" McCarty scoring the game winning goal in a 6-5 victory for the Wings in OT.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Draper suffered a broken jaw, broken cheek bone, broken nose, and a concussion from the check from behind that he took in the playoffs the prior year. McCarty and Draper were linemates and best friends, a Mutt and Jeff if you will.
Draper is not a fighter, but his best friend was, and everyone knew who was going to settle this duspute. The tension was in the air for any fan of Detroit hockey, everyone knew something would happen after the first game in Colorado was pretty tame.

Tge first period started out with under card fights, and then it was a Royal Rumble. What i think is amazing, is McCarty only received a double minor for roughing when he smoked Lemieux, to get this melee in full flight, at the end of period 1. Then the 2nd period started with a fight 4 seconds in, and the fighting persisted in throughout the period. Lost in all this was a game for the ages, maybe the most exciting game i ever watched. It had numerous fight, tons of goals, just an edge of your seat game, culminating with the "hero" McCarty scoring the game winning goal in a 6-5 victory for the Wings.

Interesting background, thanks. Again I'm not a hockey guy, but it's hard to imagine opposing goalies getting into it. But if there's hockey being played, fights are just part of the show.

 

[Thirteen Below]

The thing about Secord is that he was actually a pretty good hockey player as well as a fighter.

I think he scored 84 points one season... yeah, he was a legit player. But I'm not sure which he enjoyed more - scoring goals, or beating the hell out of people.

It's a special thing when two goalies in a hockey game getting a fight

I once saw Wayne Gretzky fight Neal Broten. Not a bad fight, but it sure didn't last long. It was Gretzky's only fighting major. Neal didn't have many either, but he was a northern Minnesota pond hockey kid, so he did know how to throw him.

Curt Giles of the Stars said that when Broten was sitting out his 5 in the box, at least 10 players skated past him and told him he was a dead man. And half of them were North Stars. They thought they were in for a bloodbath after that, but Gretzky told his teammates to let it be because he was the first to drop the gloves, and Neal "fought" him like a grown man would fight a kid brother.

I love the look on Neal's face.... "You sure about this???"

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