Possible wr trade targets?

[Pokerbrat2000]

After hearing/reading what Gute said recently, about Wide Receivers and it taking time in the NFL to catch on, my feeling that the Packers need to get immediate help via Free Agency is even stronger. While he might hope that MVS and EBS step up, I would be shocked if he counted on it. I also think his comment was intended more towards people who expect a rookie to come right in and make a big difference his first year.
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Brian Gutekunst cautioned that the learning curve for a first-year pass catcher remains steep.

“Receiver in general is a tough place to come in and have an immediate impact,” Gutekunst said before heading to the NFL scouting combine. “If you look at the history of the league, that doesn’t happen a ton.”

https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...ceivers-it-doesnt-happen-overnigh/4868534002/

I think this article sums up the mistakes of over relying on guys stepping up last season.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/29/packers-big-gamble-at-wide-receiver-went-bust-in-2019/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The lack of YAC this year is on the system, the QB and the receivers not being on the same page, the lack of big YAC type of players on the rosters.

As posted above, the Packers finished fifth in the league in average yards after catch in 2019. Fans talking about them struggling in that area is hugely exaggerated.

Brian Gutekunst cautioned that the learning curve for a first-year pass catcher remains steep.

“Receiver in general is a tough place to come in and have an immediate impact,” Gutekunst said before heading to the NFL scouting combine. “If you look at the history of the league, that doesn’t happen a ton.”

It seems Gutekunst didn't pay close attention to what rookie receivers were able to achieve last season.

 

[tynimiller]

It seems Gutekunst didn't pay close attention to what rookie receivers were able to achieve last season.

While I thought the same thing, I think Gute is not overreacting to that, claiming it as a rule rather than exception. I strongly think it is not unrealistic to have a rookie come in opposite of Adams and be a 600, 60, 6 WR for us. Especially with this class where I truly think there are 10-12 WRs if used appropriately can contribute right out the gate by their respective teams.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While I thought the same thing, I think Gute is not overreacting to that, claiming it as a rule rather than exception. I strongly think it is not unrealistic to have a rookie come in opposite of Adams and be a 600, 60, 6 WR for us. Especially with this class where I truly think there are 10-12 WRs if used appropriately can contribute right out the gate by their respective teams.

I truly believe that a rookie wide receiver drafted in the early rounds this year could even have a bigger impact than gaining 600 yards lining up opposite Adams with Rodgers throwing the ball.

 

[tynimiller]

I truly believe that a rookie wide receiver drafted in the early rounds this year could even have a bigger impact than gaining 600 yards lining up opposite Adams with Rodgers throwing the ball.

I agree fully, I'm just saying I view that as immediate contributing, and there is more WR capable of that this year than I think I've seen in a while.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As posted above, the Packers finished fifth in the league in average yards after catch in 2019. Fans talking about them struggling in that area is hugely exaggerated.



It seems Gutekunst didn't pay close attention to what rookie receivers were able to achieve last season.

I think he is recognizing the history of the position in the NFL and especially in Green Bay and not just looking at one year to set new expectations. I am glad that he acknowledged what I thought was obvious. I do think the Packers could potentially find a future WR star in the top 2 rounds, but to rely on that solely in 2020 would be foolish, especially considering the current receiving group.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I do think the Packers could potentially find a future WR star in the top 2 rounds, but to rely on that solely in 2020 would be foolish, especially considering the current receiving group.

Once again, I want the Packers to add a tight end in free agency to improve the receiving corps. But taking a look at this year's free agent and draft class the draft is the way to go to upgrade at WR.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Once again, I want the Packers to add a tight end in free agency to improve the receiving corps. But taking a look at this year's free agent and draft class the draft is the way to go to upgrade at WR.

What is your contingency plan if you can't land one of the top 2 or 3 TE FA's or when that player goes down with an injury? No doubt that the Packers need to improve at both WR and TE, but I don't agree that simply adding a rookie WR and a FA TE instantly improves the receiving group enough to beat some of the teams with top defenses.

I see a 1st or 2nd round rookie WR as being an instant starter on this team, not because of his talent, but due to the lack of talent currently on the team. That rookie is going to get chances and yards, but I see him making the same mistakes as what we have seen many rookie WR's make, especially if they are matched up against the other teams #2 DB.

 

[FaninColorado]

After taking a step back from my hopes of WR revival with a top free agent and high draft pick... it just doesn't make sense with the current path that the offense is heading. MLF has made us a run first team and because of that along with Jimmie G likely being let go... I could see our offseason start with TE Austin Hooper as the major offensive acquisition and try to find a #2 WR with our early picks.

The prepping for ARod's departure in a couple years could begin actually with a revamped front 6. A strong O-Line makes the transition from ARod to anyone else much easier.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

After taking a step back from my hopes of WR revival with a top free agent and high draft pick... it just doesn't make sense with the current path that the offense is heading. MLF has made us a run first team and because of that along with Jimmie G likely being let go... I could see our offseason start with TE Austin Hooper as the major offensive acquisition and try to find a #2 WR with our early picks.

The prepping for ARod's departure in a couple years could begin actually with a revamped front 6. A strong O-Line makes the transition from ARod to anyone else much easier.

Sounds like you are ready to throw the towel in and go into rebuild mode? After a 13-3 season?

 

[FaninColorado]

I'm not at all... because I have stated fairly much from the trade deadline that we should have traded for Keenan Allen. Want to see a full offensive restocking of WR#2, TE, and Bulaga's OT spot... but we also need to repair the DEF spine with at least 1 ILB and 1 DT to help with the run stopping issues we have.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not at all... because I have stated fairly much from the trade deadline that we should have traded for Keenan Allen. Want to see a full offensive restocking of WR#2, TE, and Bulaga's OT spot... but we also need to repair the DEF spine with at least 1 ILB and 1 DT to help with the run stopping issues we have.

Fair enough, but your one comment....

The prepping for ARod's departure in a couple years could begin actually with a revamped front 6. A strong O-Line makes the transition from ARod to anyone else much easier.

Made it sound like you felt a remake of the O-line is needed, as well as Rodgers being done in a couple of years, "a couple" mean 2?

Personally, I think this is the time where you almost go all in. You are coming off a 13-3 season and have some very obvious holes to fill. Filling these holes successfully, while still building your offense around your most key component, Aaron Rodgers, could get you a SB or 2 in the next 5 years, before Rodgers rides off into the sunset. After that, I fully expect some lean years, until his replacement is found. It is then we can chat about how to build an offense around that new QB.

 

[AmishMafia]

For crying out loud, they were throwing screens to Allen Lazard and Jimmy Graham. What do people think is going to happen?

I would say that is clearly a system or coaching issue and not a player talent issue. Graham and Lazard have their niches. That's not it.

In Graham's case, I think if he were to actually catch it he'll slip and fall untouched about eight yards after making the catch.

I fixed it for you.

 

[Dantés]

I would say that is clearly a system or coaching issue and not a player talent issue. Graham and Lazard have their niches. That's not it.

I fixed it for you.

The point isn't that they were targeting the wrong personnel for screen work-- it's that outside of Jones, the "right" personnel didn't exist on the roster.

I'll ask again-- who are the YAC playmakers on the roster in 2019? If you think Rodgers' ball placement was the biggest problem, then who are the guys that would have otherwise thrived as YAC mavens?

 

[GreenNGold_81]

The point isn't that they were targeting the wrong personnel for screen work-- it's that outside of Jones, the "right" personnel didn't exist on the roster.

I'll ask again-- who are the YAC playmakers on the roster in 2019? If you think Rodgers' ball placement was the biggest problem, then who are the guys that would have otherwise thrived as YAC mavens?

Jimmy Graham led the team with 6.8 yards after the catch per reception, if I'm interpreting this data correctly

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving/2019/all#avgYAC

Then MVS, then a pretty big fall to Adams.

MVS only caught 26 passes. Jimmy 38 passes. The players that make a difference IMO are the Deebo samuels (who I wanted in the 1st last year) and AJ Browns of the league (52 and 57 catches respectively, with 8.8 and 8.5 YAC average). We need a high volume, high YAC monster to push this offense.

 

[AmishMafia]

Jimmy Graham led the team with 6.8 yards after the catch per reception, if I'm interpreting this data correctly

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving/2019/all#avgYAC

Then MVS, then a pretty big fall to Adams.

MVS only caught 26 passes. Jimmy 38 passes. The players that make a difference IMO are the Deebo samuels (who I wanted in the 1st last year) and AJ Browns of the league (52 and 57 catches respectively, with 8.8 and 8.5 YAC average). We need a high volume, high YAC monster to push this offense.

So Gute should get a good YAC WR in the draft to take Adams spot in the starting lineup.

 

[Dantés]

Jimmy Graham led the team with 6.8 yards after the catch per reception, if I'm interpreting this data correctly

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving/2019/all#avgYAC

Then MVS, then a pretty big fall to Adams.

MVS only caught 26 passes. Jimmy 38 passes. The players that make a difference IMO are the Deebo samuels (who I wanted in the 1st last year) and AJ Browns of the league (52 and 57 catches respectively, with 8.8 and 8.5 YAC average). We need a high volume, high YAC monster to push this offense.

Here's what I posted on the previous page:

They are. They gained a lot based on Petals' offense, but they don't have players who are capable of making defenders miss and ripping off big plays, other than Jones.

Allen Lazard gained 4.1 YAC/Rec
MVS gained 5.9
Geronimo Allison gained 3.7
Davante Adams gained 5.0
Jimmy Graham gained 6.8
Aaron Jones gained 8.8

So outside of Jones, their highest performer here ranked 11th (Graham). If people think that's because Graham is dangerous with the ball in his hands, I don't know what to do for them. It's simply that Petals used him on TE screens frequently.

Our highest ranked WR, MVS, ranked tied for 24th. But this is largely because he's a deep target, whose big plays involve him running a long way after the catch on deep shots. He's not a dangerous YAC player in the traditional sense. He's not a weapon in the screen game.

Adams, our next highest performer, tied for 45th.

If people feel that the Packers don't have a lack of YAC talent, I'd be interested to hear who they view on the roster as dangerous play-makers.

Alternatively, I'd advise you to look deeper into the statistics and consider them in the context of Petals' offense.

 

[Dantés]

So Gute should get a good YAC WR in the draft to take Adams spot in the starting lineup.

Yep, exactly. Because the only way that Green Bay could possibly find and add more YAC talent at pass catcher is to take Adams off the field. I'm impressed you figured that out-- definitely makes me want to consider your takes more seriously.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

*patiently waits for someone to blame Rodgers for the low YAC numbers. Saying that its Rodgers fault for not hitting his WR's perfectly in stride as they broke clear of coverage*

Why can't people just admit that besides Adams, our receiving group just wasn't all that good last season. What did you expect from mostly late round or UDFA's? This reminds me of when the Packers couldn't run the ball worth crap and people wanted to blame the O-Line more than they wanted to just admit that our group of RB's were crap.

 

[AmishMafia]

All right.

Nothing is Rodgers fault. It is always someone else's fault. After all, he is Aaron Freakin Rodgers. To analyze anything all you need to do is look at stats and draft position to tell if a player is good. Except, Aaron Rodgers, of course. You can ignore all the stats that say he is an average QB because, again: he is Aaron Freakin Rodgers.

He went 13 and 3 for goodness sake.

He also went 6-10 the year before, but that was because of others.

Happy?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He also went 6-10 the year before, but that was because of others.

Nah that was because he was playing injured!

 

[AmishMafia]

Nah that was because he was playing injured!

'He' should be capitalized. And I hope you bowed your head and removed your hat when you typed it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Nothing is Rodgers fault. It is always someone else's fault. After all, he is Aaron Freakin Rodgers. To analyze anything all you need to do is look at stats and draft position to tell if a player is good. Except, Aaron Rodgers, of course. You can ignore all the stats that say he is an average QB because, again: he is Aaron Freakin Rodgers.

On a more serious note, since you deserve that on occasion.

Personally, I am not trying to absolve Rodgers for his part in some of this. However, if you just look at the depth chart of the WR's on Sept. 1 VS Jan. 1 and can look me straight in the eyes and say "This was a solid bunch of WR's the Packers had all season, any QB would have had a career year with them", then I guess our opinions are 180 from each other. Also, of the 6 still on the team, how many do you expect to still be playing in the NFL and/or starting in 2 years?

Sept 1:

1. D. Adams
2. G. Allison
3. MVS
4. T. Davis
5. Kumerow
6. Shepherd

Jan 1:

1. D. Adams
2. A. Lazzard (Started year on PS)
   
3. G. Allison
4. MVS
5. Kumerow
6. Ryan Grant (picked up off waivers)

 

[AmishMafia]

Why can't people just admit that besides Adams, our receiving group just wasn't all that good last season. What did you expect from mostly late round or UDFA's? This reminds me of when the Packers couldn't run the ball worth crap and people wanted to blame the O-Line more than they wanted to just admit that our group of RB's were crap.

I have called for an upgrade at WR for the last few years if you go back and look at my mocks. I get it. But if you think AR is close to what he was, you are absolutely fooling yourself.

But man, even to suggest that he is inaccurate, and some people have a conniption.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But man, even to suggest that he is inaccurate, and some people have a conniption.

I can't speak for others, but I usually mean my tongue in cheek comments towards those that are on the far end of the spectrum of thinking that it is all Rodgers fault.

More than one factor for sure. New HC, new Offense, aging QB, inexperienced and unproven WR group, not much help from the TE position.

So I look at that and say "How does one fix this?" The first 3 things are not variables you can fully change. We have a new HC, he stays. We have a new offense, it needs to get better and run more crisper. We have an aging QB, he needs to play better. So it was up to Gute to fix the other 2 things, basically the receiving group. I think he hoped it would fix itself, but it didn't. Adams stayed steady, Lazard improved and the rest of the players basically went backwards. Did they go backwards because of the new offense or Rodgers or were they just not that good to begin with? I'm saying the later. I wouldn't mind being wrong.