Packers notes

[Ace]

This article actually hasn't anything to do with the Packers but it includes some really dumb quotes comparing Newton and Rodgers with Gil Brandt writing the most stupid one I've seen in a while:

If Newton were dropped onto the Packers roster, I think he could be almost as successful as Rodgers.

Here's a link to the rest of the article for anyone interested:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...come-a-topfive-qb-by-the-end-of-this-contract

It's just useless noise when comparisons like that start flying around. Not to make this about fantasy but simply put anyone who's had Cam Newton as their QB knows the frustrations, and anyone who's had Aaron Rodgers knows what it's like to have a set it and forget it QB.

I dont' have an issue with Cam, in fact I actually like his game but saying he could come into our offense and be as successful as the 2x NFL MVP is absolutely ludacris.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I dont' have an issue with Cam, in fact I actually like his game but saying he could come into our offense and be as successful as the 2x NFL MVP is absolutely ludacris.

The only things I want to say about Newton is that he hasn't impressed me so far and that the contract the Panthers signed him to is insane.

I'm surprised that a guy like Brandt, who worked as VP of player personnel in the NFL for more than two decades, doesn't show more respect for Rodgers' accomplishments.

 

[Ace]

The only things I want to say about Newton is that he hasn't impressed me so far and that the contract the Panthers signed him to is insane.

I'm surprised that a guy like Brandt, who worked as VP of player personnel in the NFL for more than two decades, doesn't show more respect for Rodgers' accomplishments.

I can't wait to see what Luck & Wilson sign for considering what some of these QB's are making. Aaron is going look like an absolute bargain after the dust settles.

Yes, I forwarded this article onto a friend and said that I used to like and respect his opinions, I'm not so sure I can anymore.

 

[TJV]

When I first saw the post about what Brandt wrote, I thought maybe his boss told him he needs to increase traffic on his column. But he's only one of five to talk about it - you don't he's there until you click on it. But ole Gil does give you some insight into his thinking:

I have a relationship with Newton, and I'm proud of him. This kid has been maligned and criticized, but I think most of his perceived problems -- throws too hard, lacks accuracy -- are more in the public's imagination than anything. After all, it's tough to be accurate when you don't have good receivers to throw to. If he were to get his own version of Jordy Nelson or Rob Gronkowski or his own version of the offensive line in Green Bay, there's no limit to what he could do.

Kinda foolish? Sure, but isn't it nice to read something that positive about the Packers OL on a national site?

 

[AmishMafia]

Well lets see. Newton is more physically gifted than Rodgers. Newton's leadership skills may be the best in the NFL. His mental grasp of the game is strong. His offense around him is very poor.

Why does anyone doubt he would be significantly better if he was being coached by MM and surrounded by a lot more talent? Would he be as good as Rodgers? Probably not but its not impossible. But he would be far more successful, i guarantee you that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

When I first saw the post about what Brandt wrote, I thought maybe his boss told him he needs to increase traffic on his column. But he's only one of five to talk about it - you don't he's there until you click on it. But ole Gil does give you some insight into his thinking.

I don't agree with his thinking at all though. Newton is terribly inaccurate on a lot of throws and having better receivers doesn't change anything about it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well lets see. Newton is more physically gifted than Rodgers. Newton's leadership skills may be the best in the NFL. His mental grasp of the game is strong. His offense around him is very poor.

Why does anyone doubt he would be significantly better if he was being coached by MM and surrounded by a lot more talent? Would he be as good as Rodgers? Probably not but its not impossible. But he would be far more successful, i guarantee you that.

During his first three season Newton had Steve Smith, Greg Olsen and Brandon LaFell to throw to. In 2014, the team added a nice weapon in Kelvin Benjamin.

LaFell had far more succesful seasons in 2014 than at any point with Newton as their QB and even Smith, at 35 years old, was able to improve significantly over his last season with Cam in 2013.

Newton is ranked near the bottom of all relevant QB rankings, so I really have no idea why anybody would think he will turn into a QB deserving of the contract the Panthers signed him to or would be as succesful as the best QB in the league by playing with Nelson and Cobb.

 

[brandon2348]

I don't agree with his thinking at all though. Newton is terribly inaccurate on a lot of throws and having better receivers doesn't change anything about it.

I would like to add Newton has had some really good defenses and finally got his first playoff win last season against a team with QB playing that probably shouldn't even be in the league.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would like to add Newton has had some really good defenses and finally got his first playoff win last season against a team with QB playing that probably shouldn't even be in the league.

Agreed, in addition he looked terrible in that game for the most part.

 

[TJV]

Newton is terribly inaccurate on a lot of throws ...

Not looking at him through the lens of being a friend, he isn’t. Through that lens his WRs suck.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

First, Cam Newton is worth the deal he signed. Everyone wants to judge a QB deal based on whether the QB is as good as Rodgers or Luck. That's flawed thinking, there are only 3-4 truly great QBs in the NFL and they don't leave their teams. The market for QBs isn't based on how good they are, it's based on whether your team has a good ,not great, QB and if you do then you pay them top dollar because if you don't then some team without a good QB WILL pay him top dollar.

Second, Cam Newton is a more athletic Eli Manning who throws fewer interceptions but takes more sacks. That's worth a top dollar contract in today's NFL.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

First, Cam Newton is worth the deal he signed. Everyone wants to judge a QB deal based on whether the QB is as good as Rodgers or Luck. That's flawed thinking, there are only 3-4 truly great QBs in the NFL and they don't leave their teams. The market for QBs isn't based on how good they are, it's based on whether your team has a good ,not great, QB and if you do then you pay them top dollar because if you don't then some team without a good QB WILL pay him top dollar.

Second, Cam Newton is a more athletic Eli Manning who throws fewer interceptions but takes more sacks. That's worth a top dollar contract in today's NFL.

I don't consider Newton a good QB. He hasn't finished a single season ranked in the top 10 of either traditional passer rating, QBR, PFF rating or any of Football Outsiders' metrics. In addition he dropped off significantly in each of them in 2014.

Don't get me wrong, none of those rankings are close to being perfect but they work as decent indicators of a QB's performance.

 

[HardRightEdge]

LOL maybe if Janis asks Arod nicely he will send him to the pro bowl this year. (not talking up Janis ability, but suggesting Arod could make his numbers look strong).

I thought you'd get a kick out of that. Maybe Cam Newton could make him a Pro Bowler since he and Rodgers are interchangeable.

 

[TJV]

First, Cam Newton is worth the deal he signed. Everyone wants to judge a QB deal based on whether the QB is as good as Rodgers or Luck.

Not "everyone": Gil Brandt, who should know better.

 

[ivo610]

I thought you'd get a kick out of that. Maybe Cam Newton could make him a Pro Bowler since he and Rodgers are interchangeable.

Its not often I agree with a 10 yr old about football http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/sto...am-newton-kid-sports-reporter-takedown-033115

 

[ivo610]

I went last year and took my 6 year old nephew, I love the Packers but it's a crime they charge $10 for this event I'm sorry.

why is it a crime? Its a single event that sells out almost every year. When else can you bring the entire fam to Lambeau for cheap to watch the Packers?

Preseason is a crime but thats a different situation.

 

[ivo610]

This article actually hasn't anything to do with the Packers but it includes some really dumb quotes comparing Newton and Rodgers with Gil Brandt writing the most stupid one I've seen in a while:

If Newton were dropped onto the Packers roster, I think he could be almost as successful as Rodgers.

Here's a link to the rest of the article for anyone interested:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...come-a-topfive-qb-by-the-end-of-this-contract

The only explanation can be that he is senile

 

[Ace]

why is it a crime? Its a single event that sells out almost every year. When else can you bring the entire fam to Lambeau for cheap to watch the Packers?

Preseason is a crime but thats a different situation.

You can bring the entire family to GB and watch the same thing for free on the practice field. I wouldn't say this if they went back to doing an actual scrimmage because I think that would be much more entertaining to watch. Again, I understand it's for the kids and like I said I wasn't looking for a gameday atmosphere but it was really bad. At least with a scrimmage there's something that resembles a game.

It's really not that big of a deal and to say it's a crime is probably a little harsh because it is only $10 but I still think it's a little steep for what you get. Now, the real crime is when people buy up those $10 tickets and gouge others who want to find cheaper entertainment for their family.

Preseason is a whole other animal yes I would agree. I've only been to one pre season game and the tickets were given to me so I've personally never had to pay for them but full price is ridiculous for preseason games.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Not "everyone": Gil Brandt, who should know better.

My apologies....I assumed that people would understand the hyperbole in my statement. Obviously not every person on the planet feels that way. Also, what does Gil Brandt saying Newton would be almost as good as Rodgers on the Packer's roster have to do with people wanting to judge QBs as if they were Rodgers or Luck?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't consider Newton a good QB. He hasn't finished a single season ranked in the top 10 of either traditional passer rating, QBR, PFF rating or any of Football Outsiders' metrics. In addition he dropped off significantly in each of them in 2014.

Don't get me wrong, none of those rankings are close to being perfect but they work as decent indicators of a QB's performance.

I think people are being too black or white on the subject of QBs. I said he was a good QB that you could count on to win a Super Bowl. I compared him to Eli Manning, a QB who has only once ranked in the top-10 of PFF's QB rating and has also ranked far lower by that metric than Newton ever has (Eli was 25th in 2013).

People want to base every deal on if a guy is better than another guy earning as much money. That's the wrong way to look at QB deals. You have to look at the market. If Newton was a free agent, do you really think the Browns, Bills, Jets, Texans, etc. wouldn't be falling over themselves to pay Newton $100 million? All that matters is whether you have one of the good QBs in the NFL (bear in mind that a good QB is Newton, an elite QB is Rivers and Roders is otherworldly). Rank the QBs in the NFL. The only guys in the NFL that are better right now would be Luck, Rodgers, Peyton, Romo, Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Brady and Wilson. So Newton, who has been in the NFL for a grand total of four seasons, is the 11th best QB in the NFL right now and will probably move up that list going forward. Just taking age into account, you would think he'll eventually pass Peyton, Brees and Brady simply due to them retiring.

You also have to keep in mind that he is in a VERY limited offense right now. Remember how terrible Brady looked when Gronk wasn't in and the Pats offense was terrible? Suddenly Gronk comes back and Edelman/LaFell take off and now Brady is maybe the best QB of all time. Brady wins the Super Bowl MVP based on Edelman's ability to run after the catch (and Seattle making one of the worst play calls of all time on the goal line). Outside of an aging Steve Smith I'm not sure what elite receiving options Cam has ever had.

 

[TJV]

Also, what does Gil Brandt saying Newton would be almost as good as Rodgers on the Packer's roster have to do with people wanting to judge QBs as if they were Rodgers or Luck?

I have no idea. Perhaps you should ask the person who posted that?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think people are being too black or white on the subject of QBs. I said he was a good QB that you could count on to win a Super Bowl. I compared him to Eli Manning, a QB who has only once ranked in the top-10 of PFF's QB rating and has also ranked far lower by that metric than Newton ever has (Eli was 25th in 2013).

Newton finished in 30th in PFF rating last season (taking all guys having played 25% of the snaps into consideration). The huge difference to Eli Manning is that he won a Super Bowl during his fourth season while Newton looked absolutely terrible during the 2014 playoffs.

People want to base every deal on if a guy is better than another guy earning as much money. That's the wrong way to look at QB deals. You have to look at the market. If Newton was a free agent, do you really think the Browns, Bills, Jets, Texans, etc. wouldn't be falling over themselves to pay Newton $100 million?

Agreed, those teams would gladly offer Newton a similar deal than the Panthers did. All of those teams you've mentioned haven't been to a Super Bowl in more than 20 years though because they constantly overpay for average talent.

All that matters is whether you have one of the good QBs in the NFL (bear in mind that a good QB is Newton, an elite QB is Rivers and Roders is otherworldly). Rank the QBs in the NFL. The only guys in the NFL that are better right now would be Luck, Rodgers, Peyton, Romo, Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Brady and Wilson. So Newton, who has been in the NFL for a grand total of four seasons, is the 11th best QB in the NFL right now and will probably move up that list going forward. Just taking age into account, you would think he'll eventually pass Peyton, Brees and Brady simply due to them retiring.

Once again, I don't consider Neeton a good QB and there is no statistical evidence to suggest he should be ranked 11th.

You also have to keep in mind that he is in a VERY limited offense right now. Remember how terrible Brady looked when Gronk wasn't in and the Pats offense was terrible? Suddenly Gronk comes back and Edelman/LaFell take off and now Brady is maybe the best QB of all time. Brady wins the Super Bowl MVP based on Edelman's ability to run after the catch (and Seattle making one of the worst play calls of all time on the goal line). Outside of an aging Steve Smith I'm not sure what elite receiving options Cam has ever had.

LaFell played in Carolina during Newton's first three seasons. Greg Olsen is one of the best pass catching TEs in the league. Kelvin Benjamin was one of the best rookie receivers last year.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Newton finished in 30th in PFF rating last season (taking all guys having played 25% of the snaps into consideration). The huge difference to Eli Manning is that he won a Super Bowl during his fourth season while Newton looked absolutely terrible during the 2014 playoffs.

Agreed, those teams would gladly offer Newton a similar deal than the Panthers did. All of those teams you've mentioned haven't been to a Super Bowl in more than 20 years though because they constantly overpay for average talent.

Once again, I don't consider Neeton a good QB and there is no statistical evidence to suggest he should be ranked 11th.

LaFell played in Carolina during Newton's first three seasons. Greg Olsen is one of the best pass catching TEs in the league. Kelvin Benjamin was one of the best rookie receivers last year.

We obviously disagree. There are only 2-3 REALLY great QBs in the NFL. It's unrealistic to expect those three guys to be the highest paid QBs in the NFL every year. Other players at the position will be paid more as their contracts expire because there are a very limited number of functional QBs in the world.

Eli Manning won a Super Bowl in his fourth year due to having a better team than Cam has. No statistical evidence to base Cam being 11th, please tell me who you would rank higher than Cam. Dalton? Tannehill? I feel pretty comfortable with Newton at 11.

LaFell had a grand total of 326 more yards with the Pats than the Panthers and he also had 31 more targets with the Patriots. LaFell didn't actually play that much better with the Pats, he just played in an offense that threw the ball more often.

Saying Benjamin was one of the better rookie receivers is accurate but that doesn't mean he was actually a very good receiver. He had one of the highest drop rates in the NFL and was ranked a solid 37 out of 50 on WR rank by PFF.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

No statistical evidence to base Cam being 11th, please tell me who you would rank higher than Cam. Dalton? Tannehill? I feel pretty comfortable with Newton at 11.

Once again, Newton never finished a single season in the top 11 in any of the most common ratings measuring a QB's performance. I really don't understand why anybody would rank him that high.

LaFell had a grand total of 326 more yards with the Pats than the Panthers and he also had 31 more targets with the Patriots. LaFell didn't actually play that much better with the Pats, he just played in an offense that threw the ball more often.

It's true that LaFell played in an offense last season threw the ball more often with an increase of 29%. But his numbers increased significantly higher than that number (targets 37.4%, receptions 51.0%, yards 52.0%).

Saying Benjamin was one of the better rookie receivers is accurate but that doesn't mean he was actually a very good receiver. He had one of the highest drop rates in the NFL and was ranked a solid 37 out of 50 on WR rank by PFF.

Benjamin made 73 catches for more than 1,000 yards and nine TDs, pretty decent numbers for a rookie receiver. Newton targeted him 142 times with only 84 catchable balls (59.2%), a truly terrible number.

I really don't put too much or any stock into PFF's grading system.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I really don't put too much or any stock into PFF's grading system.

As soon as someone can point me in the direction of another objective group that grades every player I'll happily use them as well. For now though, unless someone literally watches every wide receiver on every play, how else would you possibly be able to tell how good that WR is relative to other wide receivers?

As the topic title is Packers notes, I'm going to drop the Newton subject at this point. Either way, in three years Newton's contract won't be nearly as pricey as it appears now when the cap starts to jump again (the reason the Dolphins gave Tannehill as much as they did).