Packers Front Office Under Fire

[Sunshinepacker]

You memory is very limited and skewed with your belief that someone like Love should have served an important function in his rookie season, no less in a season that was greatly impacted by Covid. Deguara missed most of the season due to injury and despite missing 6 games due to Covid, Dillon still contributed during his 107 snaps.

Just looking quickly, you will find the first 3 rookies in these draft classes as doing very little their first season. Rodgers draft class was almost non-existent except for Nick Collins.

2017
2016
2011
2008
2007

I mean, you kind of proved the point with this. The 2017 was just awful, the 2016 draft consisted of one player the Packers thought was worth re-signing, and the 2011 draft was also pretty bad.

You also need to include a bit more context. The Packers were one game fun the Super Bowl the prior season and intentionally drafted 100%, certified backups with their 1st three picks. That's problematic.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

I like your sentiment and it looks like we could have a very well rounded team. Hopefully the special teams coach is better than what we have become accustomed to. But can't agree that the QB does not matter much.

QB certainly matters A LOT but if the rest of the team is above average, a below average QB can win games (and championships) if he doesn't turn the ball over. I'm optimistic about this team if Rodgers doesn't return

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I mean, you kind of proved the point with this. The 2017 was just awful, the 2016 draft consisted of one player the Packers thought was worth re-signing, and the 2011 draft was also pretty bad.

You also need to include a bit more context. The Packers were one game fun the Super Bowl the prior season and intentionally drafted 100%, certified backups with their 1st three picks. That's problematic.

Yes, lots of variables I didn't include. Like the fact that some of the more impactful rookies were high picks. Some were impactful due to injuries ahead of them. Bottom line, I think you might be using selective memory on just how impactful rookies are in their first season. Especially the guys who handle the ball. If you look at all the great WR's that came through GB, how many had a big impact their rookie year? Tee Higgins had an excellent rookie season in Cincinnati, but he was also playing on a pretty crappy team and was targeted 108 times. I doubt he even comes close to half that many on the Packer offense last season. I also have to wonder, if Rodgers would have even fully trusted him.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm not talking about 1 player. I'm talking all 3. I don't recall another draft where all of our first three players were number 3s or lower on the depth chart.

Gotcha. The closest I can remember is 2007.
QB Graham Harrell (3rd string)
RB Brandon Jackson (3rd string)
WR James Jones (2nd string behind probowler Donald Driver and Greg Jennings)

We have to look at years with comparable scenarios. We had a QB retiring (Favre) and about similar age

 

[G0P4ckG0]

Gotcha. The closest I can remember is 2007.
QB Graham Harrell (3rd string)
RB Brandon Jackson (3rd string)
WR James Jones (2nd string behind probowler Donald Driver and Greg Jennings)

I remember when Harrell was regarded as the next Favre. Dude was a total bust but Jackson was severely underrated (in my opinion)

 

[OldSchool101]

What I thought was impressive was that our D held up against Henry. Better linebacker play I thought helped the most. If the D line can improve; we will be tough. I like Dillon too but almost all RBs need a hole to run through. And we should be able to give him that.

What you just stated is going to be one of the exciting aspects of 2021. I griped some about 6 OL in 2 drafts, but I do value the position more than most. We just tendered Nijman (VTech OT) so we have 7 players competing for what’s likely 2 positions (temporarily 3) That means we shouldn’t drop off much if any. A 2nd round C and 4th Round OG is lots of draft capital. Several of those guys are powerful Run blockers and Dillon and Jones are going to be fun to watch.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That was them hedging their bets

The Packers should have taken a risk trying to improve the 2020 team instead of drafting for future years though.

If our D can rise up it really doesn't matter who our quarterback is so long as our running game and special teams are strong.

You're fooling yourself if you honestly believe that to be true.

You memory is very limited and skewed with your belief that someone like Love should have served an important function in his rookie season, no less in a season that was greatly impacted by Covid. Deguara missed most of the season due to injury and despite missing 6 games due to Covid, Dillon still contributed during his 107 snaps.

Just looking quickly, you will find the first 3 rookies in these draft classes as doing very little their first season. Rodgers draft class was almost non-existent except for Nick Collins.

2017
2016
2011
2008
2007

I'm surprised how many posters around here argue that a first round pick couldn't have made an immediate impact last year.

The Packers were possibly one play going their way away from winning the Super Bowl yet many want to make us believe that another pick then Love wouldn't have been able to make a difference. I really don't understand that way of thinking.

QB certainly matters A LOT but if the rest of the team is above average, a below average QB can win games (and championships) if he doesn't turn the ball over.

I don't remember any below average quarterback winning a championship with a mediocre defense.

Yes, lots of variables I didn't include. Like the fact that some of the more impactful rookies were high picks. Some were impactful due to injuries ahead of them. Bottom line, I think you might be using selective memory on just how impactful rookies are in their first season. Especially the guys who handle the ball. If you look at all the great WR's that came through GB, how many had a big impact their rookie year? Tee Higgins had an excellent rookie season in Cincinnati, but he was also playing on a pretty crappy team and was targeted 108 times. I doubt he even comes close to half that many on the Packer offense last season. I also have to wonder, if Rodgers would have even fully trusted him.

If Gutekunst had added the team's third round pick on top of the fourth rounder to move ahead of the Vikings to select Jefferson there would be another Lombardi Trophy standing in the Packers HOF.

Of course we would have to deal with not having Deguara on the roster which seems to be pretty important for some fans for random reasons.

Gotcha. The closest I can remember is 2007.
QB Graham Harrell (3rd string)
RB Brandon Jackson (3rd string)
WR James Jones (2nd string behind probowler Donald Driver and Greg Jennings)

We have to look at years with comparable scenarios. We had a QB retiring (Favre) and about similar age

Harrell was an undrafted free agent though.

We just tendered Nijman (VTech OT) so we have 7 players competing for what’s likely 2 positions (temporarily 3) That means we shouldn’t drop off much if any.

A team having a number of players at a position doesn't automatically guarantee they have enough quality on the roster.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Gutekunst had added the team's third round pick on top of the fourth rounder to move ahead of the Vikings to select Jefferson there would be another Lombardi Trophy standing in the Packers HOF.

Of course we would have to deal with not having Deguara on the roster which seems to be pretty important for some fans for random reasons.

Yes, you and a few posters keep hammering this point like its a fact and not really acknowledging that it is nothing more than a crystal ball observation that you are making. I could go back to just about every draft, 2020 included and say how "if Gute or TT had done this, we would have had more Lombardi's". I look like a genius every time. I have not seen one poster, myself included come to the conclusion that another pick other than Love, would have not contributed more in 2020 than he did, but I will still roll my eyes when posters imply that because of Love, we didn't go to and win a Super Bowl in 2020.

 

[Half Empty]

QB certainly matters A LOT but if the rest of the team is above average, a below average QB can win games (and championships) if he doesn't turn the ball over. I'm optimistic about this team if Rodgers doesn't return

I don't remember any below average quarterback winning a championship with a mediocre defense.

Isn't the defense part of the rest of the team?

 

[OldSchool101]

The Packers should have taken a risk trying to improve the 2020 team instead of drafting for future years though.

A team having a number of players at a position doesn't automatically guarantee they have enough quality on the roster.

True.
But that doesn’t diminish our having 6 players drafted between round 2-6, plus another player going into his 3rd season with the team in competition for what’s essentially 2 slots once Bak returns. That gives us reassurance that we get 2 pretty darn good ones out of that bunch.

We just drafted a C that could start day 1 if needed. We have like 4 guys with C experience. He’s one of the better C in all of college football.

PS. Thank you for pointing out Harrell. That was my bad

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A team having a number of players at a position doesn't automatically guarantee they have enough quality on the roster.

hmmmm...so why doesn't that theory apply with the QB position in your mind? Remember to think both short and long term. Also keep in mind that at the time Love was drafted, nobody knew how Covid would actually effect the NFL. For all we know, had Love been able to practice normally and get some preseason work in, he may have been the clear #2, not to mention we all would have a little bit clearer picture into his future.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

The Packers should have taken a risk trying to improve the 2020 team instead of drafting for future years though.



You're fooling yourself if you honestly believe that to be true.



I'm surprised how many posters around here argue that a first round pick couldn't have made an immediate impact last year.

The Packers were possibly one play going their way away from winning the Super Bowl yet many want to make us believe that another pick then Love wouldn't have been able to make a difference. I really don't understand that way of thinking.

Pretty simple. They want to run interference for Gute and not hold him to the same standards as Ted Thompson.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

hmmmm...so why doesn't that theory apply with the QB position in your mind? Remember to think both short and long term. Also keep in mind that at the time Love was drafted, nobody knew how Covid would actually effect the NFL. For all we know, had Love been able to practice normally and get some preseason work in, he may have been the clear #2, not to mention we all would have a little bit clearer picture into his future.

The COVID excuse is getting old

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yes, lots of variables I didn't include. Like the fact that some of the more impactful rookies were high picks. Some were impactful due to injuries ahead of them. Bottom line, I think you might be using selective memory on just how impactful rookies are in their first season. Especially the guys who handle the ball. If you look at all the great WR's that came through GB, how many had a big impact their rookie year? Tee Higgins had an excellent rookie season in Cincinnati, but he was also playing on a pretty crappy team and was targeted 108 times. I doubt he even comes close to half that many on the Packer offense last season. I also have to wonder, if Rodgers would have even fully trusted him.

I don't think Higgins would have had nearly as many targets in Green Bay, but he probably would have passed MVS on the depth chart at a minimum and would have allowed the Packers to play 4 wide occasionally.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I look at the sides of the coin like this. Drafting someone other than Love at any position of need at that time wouldn't have guaranteed we beat TB, but it certainly could have upped our chances significantly. But drafting Love guaranteed we didn't get those chances.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The COVID excuse is getting old

Getting old in what way? How is it an excuse, it was a fact? It effected almost everything done during the NFL season from March til the Super Bowl. Pro Days, combine, interviews, practices, no preseason games, traveling was restricted.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I look at the sides of the coin like this. Drafting someone other than Love at any position of need at that time wouldn't have guaranteed we beat TB, but it certainly could have upped our chances significantly. But drafting Love guaranteed we didn't get those chances.

"upped our chances significantly" Really?

Problem is, its illegal to use a crystal ball, as well as hind site in the NFL, I think Belichick got fined for that?

I'm glad the Packers didn't draft Higgins, he would have torn his ACL in the first game and we would have wasted the pick if he never played again.

See how that works?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

"upped our chances significantly" Really?

Problem is, its illegal to use a crystal ball, as well as hind site in the NFL, I think Belichick got fined for that?

I'm glad the Packers didn't draft Higgins, he would have torn his ACL in the first game and we would have wasted the pick if he never played again.

See how that works?

Way to cherry pick there and leave out the two preceding words "could have"

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Way to cherry pick there and leave out the two preceding words "could have"

Cherry pick? I had your whole quote up, I intentionally only emphasized (highlighted) the words I disagreed with.

I digress though, you and I are just going in circles and being nit picky with each other...you are viewing this situation in black and white, with only 2 possible outcomes (right or wrong by your coin sides), I will stick with my multi-dimensional views, where there are many shades of possibilities.

 

[Poppa San]

where there are many shades of possibilities.

My wife says gray has 50 shades. She read it in some book.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, you and a few posters keep hammering this point like its a fact and not really acknowledging that it is nothing more than a crystal ball observation that you are making. I have not seen one poster, myself included come to the conclusion that another pick other than Love, would have not contributed more in 2020 than he did, but I will still roll my eyes when posters imply that because of Love, we didn't go to and win a Super Bowl in 2020.

It's true that another first round pick wouldn't have automatically contributed to the Packers winning the Super Bowl.

The point is that selecting Love all but guaranteed the team's most valuable asset last offseason wouldn't.

Isn't the defense part of the rest of the team?

Yes, but the Packers don't have a better defense than a mediocre one.

But that doesn’t diminish our having 6 players drafted between round 2-6, plus another player going into his 3rd season with the team in competition for what’s essentially 2 slots once Bak returns. That gives us reassurance that we get 2 pretty darn good ones out of that bunch.

The Packers having six or seven guys competing for two spots on the offensive line doesn't assure them of having quality options available though.

hmmmm...so why doesn't that theory apply with the QB position in your mind?

I'm sorry, Poker, but I have no idea how you came up with the conclusion that I believe the theory you replied to doesn't apply to quarterbacks.

 

[longtimefan]

The COVID excuse is getting old

As Poker said, Its a fact...

you truly think that no in person ota, pre season games and etc, had no impact at all on ANY rookie, even more so than qb?

Then you are just being stubborn and want to "run interference”

 

[longtimefan]

I look at the sides of the coin like this. Drafting someone other than Love at any position of need at that time wouldn't have guaranteed we beat TB, but it certainly could have upped our chances significantly. But drafting Love guaranteed we didn't get those chances.

Why is that this thinking is okay, but to say Love pushed Rodgers to train more, study more and prove he still had it isnt possible?

If love wasnt drafted, one "could say" Rodgers doesnt get pushed more, doesnt train as hard, and didnt "need" to prove he still had it.

It does work both ways weather you want to acknowledge it or not

Its as simple as—-drafting someone different than Love gets Packers to SB...and drafting Love made Rodgers perform at MVP level…We dont know the answer at all..

its all perspective and going back and forth on this one issue is fruiess IMO

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

its all perspective and going back and forth on this one issue is fruiess IMO

Best thing I have read in awhile

Some peoples perspective seems to forget that when decisions are made, you don't have the benefit of a crystal ball. I might be able to name 1000+ moves/draft picks/plays, etc., over the last 5 years, that I can speculate might have upped our chances to have beaten the Buccaneers. I can also speculate as to how the moves that were actually made helped after they were made and further, how they might help in the future. But who is to say my speculation is better/more accurate than the next persons?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My wife says gray has 50 shades. She read it in some book.

Did you find that out before or after she tied you up?