Packers Front Office Under Fire

[Heyjoe4]

I think that's reading too much into things. None of these guys gets into it to settle for good. they all want to be the best. That includes being considered the best president, the best coach, the best GM, have the best team, etc. I think they saw an aging Qb and had a chance at a guy they really really liked. That's it.

Our season ended at the same place last years did too, but I think it was pretty clear this year's team was very deserving and improved quite a bit over last year's. They have their work cut out for them for next year, but with the right choices hitting, we could be right back or better.

I think you're right in that they care about the future more than a fan or a player might, but I think they make the decisions based on what keeps a team fighting for championships, not gives the best player a chance at winning a championship. I happen to agree for the most part. I'm not crazy about the Love pick, if turns out to be good, I'm fine with it. if he's not, we'll have a new GM then.

I'm not sure they have to worry a ton about winning or just being good enough in GB, they fill the stadium year after year, even when we sucked.

Good points. The FO has to look ahead and act accordingly. I do believe Gluten picked Love thinking some day he'd be Gluten's "guy". I love Rodgers and hope he keeps playing as well as last year. But reality says he'll be around for about another 3 years. Whenever that day comes, the team has to be ready. I do think Gluten jumped the gun by going after love. And it's not about taking a WR (although I wish they had), it's about timing. In the end, Gluten vastly underestimated what Rodgers has left in the tank. That pretty much makes Love a wasted first (and fourth) round pick. You can't do that (waste high draft picks) and expect to be around for long.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well, I can get behind that reasoning to a certain extent. But Gute's philosophy has still been different than that of the late Ted Thompson who I might have better put in that mold since he went out trying to make the Packers competitive year in and year out without spending money on free agents. Gute has done this, so that would suggest to me the GMs here still have enough autonomy that they can go all in on either short term or long-term personnel decisions depending on how they see fit.

I'd say I haven't always been on board with Gute's picks, but some are starting to turn into pretty damn good impact players.

Rashaan Gary for one, not a guy I wanted, but he's turning out to be a winner. Love the Dillon pick too. He needs to get more playing time and take over as number 1 RB. He's the only back on this team who can knock over and drag defenders with him. MVS I was tough on for a while, but he's really proved his worth as a WR this year. And with our two ILBs, Martin and Barnes, there's a lot to love there.

The picks he struck out on were Josh Jackson, Jimon Moore, ESB, DeGuara, Stepaniak, and ... fill in the blank.

Bottom line, the organization may not always invest in the best draft picks or FAs that would get us over the top immediately, but I think Murphy and co leave most of that up to the GM himself. Nor do I think Murphy was involved with the Love pick.

Your comments are convincing. The GMs have been allowed to do what they want to do. TT was strictly D&D, Gluten's not afraid to try FA, and he's done well. Maybe another loss in the NFCCG is still hurting, four straight losses in that game. Then again, there are a LOT of teams that never make it that far. That's cold comfort, but we've had a lot to be thankful for with this team for the last 30 years. I know having two HOF QBs helps, yet there are a lot of other pieces to it as well. It's nice that we have a team that we can be pretty sure we'll still be cheering for come January.

 

[El Guapo]

You know what it's like when you start a campfire and then leave for a few weeks. Then you come back to find out that you started the entire forest on fire and you're getting a bill from the DNR?? Maybe that's only happened to me, but it feels that way again when I came back on the forum to see that there are nine pages devoted to this topic that I started! Glad to see nobody was bored while I was gone!

 

[Poppa San]

Glad to see nobody was bored while I was gone!

You were gone? Hmmph. Never realized it.

 

[Mondio]

You were gone? Hmmph. Never realized it.

probably ran into some trouble while vacationing in Santo Poco again that held him up.

 

[El Guapo]

I couldn't get back over the wall...

 

[ulvogr]

Sorry for the late reply but man you nailed it. All they care about in GB is the bottom line and putting a "good enough" team on the field. And it does tie to the ownership structure, which is funny when you think about it. The team is owned by the fans. Murphy and the FO control the revenue and expenses. And I wouldn't be surprised if a good number of them are more incented to make money than to win SBs. And again to your point, it's not like a SB might bring a new stadium to town. That's not the issue in GB. That's good news and bad news I guess.

Although as I write this, I would guess the lion's share of expenses are player compensation, and the Packers max out the cap every year. I don't know the answer, but I think the incentives for the executives to win takes a back seat to profitability. I miss Bob Harlan.

I thought that Wisconsin is full of Packer share holders. Put 84000 share holders in the stands. Ask them to leave if Rodgers should stay in Green Bay, and then count the people in the sta nds...all 100 of them. No GM is worth loosing a MVP!

 

[thequick12]

I thought that Wisconsin is full of Packer share holders. Put 84000 share holders in the stands. Ask them to leave if Rodgers should stay in Green Bay, and then count the people in the sta nds...all 100 of them. No GM is worth loosing a MVP!

Exactly whether you think Rodgers is a baby or not we all agree he has a lot more to do with whether the team wins or not than a guy who will never play a game. And has already been GM long enough that we know he isn't as good at his job as Aaron Rodgers is at his

 

[thequick12]

I'll say this I think gutekrause is a top notch talent evaluator...however I don't think he's a top notch GM. He's a guy you want high up in the front office but not at the top as the face of things and as the liason between the players and the FO.

You don't run Michael Jordan out of town...and if you do you have failed at your job. Bottom Line

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You don't run Michael Jordan out of town...and if you do you have failed at your job. Bottom Line

What if Michael Jordan wants to run himself out of town?

 

[Raleigh NC Packers Fan]

Sorry for the late reply but man you nailed it. All they care about in GB is the bottom line and putting a "good enough" team on the field. And it does tie to the ownership structure, which is funny when you think about it. The team is owned by the fans. Murphy and the FO control the revenue and expenses. And I wouldn't be surprised if a good number of them are more incented to make money than to win SBs. And again to your point, it's not like a SB might bring a new stadium to town. That's not the issue in GB. That's good news and bad news I guess.

Although as I write this, I would guess the lion's share of expenses are player compensation, and the Packers max out the cap every year. I don't know the answer, but I think the incentives for the executives to win takes a back seat to profitability. I miss Bob Harlan.

I wrote this in another thread but I think it is relevant here. This is my opinion on having an owner.

As a stockholder, I really don't get why some think that having an owner is the answer. We have a salary cap, so there are no advantage to having a rich owner, and the GM makes all of the personnel decisions just like with any other team. If a new GM does need to be chosen or input is needed in making some decisions(which is probably very rare), then the president can fulfill that role.

Having stockholders also does make us unique, and we also probably have a larger fanbase at least in part because of this.

To answer your question, the board of directors would be the ones that would hire or fire the president, so the stockholders couldn't have a role in resolving this, nor do I see how this situation(or the one with Farve)is caused by having stockholders instead of an owner.

We have also seen plenty of owners with an ego problem micromanage franchises, doing the job of the GM(or hiring bad/firing good GMs) running the team into the ground, and who only got the job through nepotism.

Finally, for those of you who live in Green Bay, the Packers would have almost certainly moved out a long time ago if they had an owner.

 

[rmontro]

You don't run Michael Jordan out of town...and if you do you have failed at your job. Bottom Line

Fair point. A lot of people questioned the Jordan Love pick last year because it didn't immediately improve the team, a team that had just reached the NFCCG. It appears Rodgers took it more personally than he originally let on. A GM is responsible for the effects of his decisions, and this is apparently one of them.

 

[Mondio]

Maybe that will be a Jeopardy question one day. Who are the Greatest basketball and football players in the history of the world?

Who are Michael Jordan Love.

Oh wait, that would be a before and after on Wheel of Fortune, never mind.

 

[thequick12]

What if Michael Jordan wants to run himself out of town?

That's clearly not the case...all the people that we know actually talk to Rodgers are saying the opposite.

You really think it hasnt been his goal to finish his career as a packer?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Fair point. A lot of people questioned the Jordan Love pick last year because it didn't immediately improve the team, a team that had just reached the NFCCG. It appears Rodgers took it more personally than he originally let on. A GM is responsible for the effects of his decisions, and this is apparently one of them.

It wasn't just Love, it was that practically all those picks from those 3 first rounds were no higher than number 3 on the depth chart, which I think most would say implies bad strategy for drafting. Definitely quite a contrast it would seem from this year. Any QB who is trying to get a SB win for his team is bound to loft a complaint about that at some point.

 

[OldSchool101]

It wasn't just Love, it was that practically all those picks from those 3 first rounds were no higher than number 3 on the depth chart, which I think most would say implies bad strategy for drafting. Definitely quite a contrast it would seem from this year. Any QB who is trying to get a SB win for his team is bound to loft a complaint about that at some point.

Aaron Rodgers himself went 6-10 in his 4th season (1st as a starter) and he was a day 1 selection. Can you imagine had someone made that assertion while he was still on the bench? That’s would’ve went down as the worst player evaluation in history.

Very few players drafted between #50-#100 overall are going to make big impacts their first season, so the making that argument in those draft parameters shows an unrealistic expectation.

It would be better to use that argument regarding veteran Free Agency. Those guys are expected to contribute day 1 for the most part. If you’re getting veterans that are buried on the depth chart that’s worth complaining about and that would show a GM who was too conservative.
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[rmontro]

It wasn't just Love, it was that practically all those picks from those 3 first rounds were no higher than number 3 on the depth chart

There were some eyes raised. I like the AJ Dillon pick though.

 

[OldSchool101]

There were some eyes raised. I like the AJ Dillon pick though.

I know it was a controversial draft for some folks, I’ll freely admit that. It shocked us all out of the gate. But we dealt with an awful situation with Covid and players going virtual and that hindered Rookies more than anyone.
That said, I agree that AJ Dillon is just fine late round 2 and he’s hopefully going to stay healthy and quiet some folks who weren’t fans of his. He earned the right to #2 RB and that can be a significant role in this system. Dillon outperformed Derrick Henry in his first head to head! That’s really impressive and we’ve seen just enough to know it’s not just in the winter elements. They could not stop him and that was clear as day. The only thing Tampa did to slow him was get him off the field by getting a multiple scores lead.
I’m hoping Deguara recovers, because he also looked decent, albeit in limited action.

The first draft selection in 2020 was controversial, but the next two look B+ and B- grade solid IMO

 

[bigbubbatd]

I'll say this I think gutekrause is a top notch talent evaluator...however I don't think he's a top notch GM. He's a guy you want high up in the front office but not at the top as the face of things and as the liason between the players and the FO.

You don't run Michael Jordan out of town...and if you do you have failed at your job. Bottom Line

Gute drafted jaire, Jenkins, savage and Gary. He signed Amos zadarius, turner and Preston.
Jones and bahk resigned. He turned a muddling team with a stud qb into a super bowl contender

He isn't running anyone out of town. Or at least one draft pick shouldn't lead to thst

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Aaron Rodgers himself went 6-10 in his 4th season (1st as a starter) and he was a day 1 selection. Can you imagine had someone made that assertion while he was still on the bench? That’s would’ve went down as the worst player evaluation in history.

Very few players drafted between #50-#100 overall are going to make big impacts their first season, so the making that argument in those draft parameters shows an unrealistic expectation.

It would be better to use that argument regarding veteran Free Agency. Those guys are expected to contribute day 1 for the most part. If you’re getting veterans that are buried on the depth chart that’s worth complaining about and that would show a GM who was too conservative.
.

I'm not talking about 1 player. I'm talking all 3. I don't recall another draft where all of our first three players were number 3s or lower on the depth chart.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

I'm not talking about 1 player. I'm talking all 3. I don't recall another draft where all of our first three players were number 3s or lower on the depth chart.

That was them hedging their bets

 

[gopkrs]

Dillon outperformed Derrick Henry in his first head to head! That’s really impressive

What I thought was impressive was that our D held up against Henry. Better linebacker play I thought helped the most. If the D line can improve; we will be tough. I like Dillon too but almost all RBs need a hole to run through. And we should be able to give him that.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

What I thought was impressive was that our D held up against Henry. Better linebacker play I thought helped the most. If the D line can improve; we will be tough. I like Dillon too but almost all RBs need a hole to run through. And we should be able to give him that.

At the very least a new DC will help our D be somewhat unpredictable for at least a few games. If our D can rise up it really doesn't matter who our quarterback is so long as our running game and special teams are strong.

 

[gopkrs]

At the very least a new DC will help our D be somewhat unpredictable for at least a few games. If our D can rise up it really doesn't matter who our quarterback is so long as our running game and special teams are strong.

I like your sentiment and it looks like we could have a very well rounded team. Hopefully the special teams coach is better than what we have become accustomed to. But can't agree that the QB does not matter much.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not talking about 1 player. I'm talking all 3. I don't recall another draft where all of our first three players were number 3s or lower on the depth chart.

You memory is very limited and skewed with your belief that someone like Love should have served an important function in his rookie season, no less in a season that was greatly impacted by Covid. Deguara missed most of the season due to injury and despite missing 6 games due to Covid, Dillon still contributed during his 107 snaps.

Just looking quickly, you will find the first 3 rookies in these draft classes as doing very little their first season. Rodgers draft class was almost non-existent except for Nick Collins.

2017
2016
2011
2008
2007