Packer Defensive Roster Improvements?

[AmishMafia]

Some don't see any improvements in our defense. Others, like myself, see a lot of promise in this team. So looking at position groups, are we better, worse, or the same from this time last year?



CB
Much Better

Keep Randall, Rollins, Hawkins, Gunter, Goodson
Loss Shields
Gains King, House
Can't get much worse. I liked Shields, but he wasn't a great matchup to some of the WR threats out there. The regression of our 2 first year players, Rollins and Randall, along with the career ending injury to Shields, really messed up this season. When your 4th string UFA CB is covering Julio Jones, you know things did not go as planned. Groin injuries to Rollins and Randall in training camp hopefully account for their regression after promising rookie seasons. Addition of Kevin King is a longer term investment that won't solve our problems immediately. Hopefully he is up to speed by seasons end and is starting to make some plays. Expect a few rookie mistakes along the way. House is a bigger addition this season in my mind. He played very well as a Packer, covering the opponents #1 receiver and doing a decent job. He will be helped this time around by a much improved S corps.

S
Better
Keep HHCD, Burnet, Brice
Gains Josh Jones
Our deepest most talented position. Ha Ha is continuing to develop. Burnet has maxed out. Both were hamstrung last season with an inferior CB crew. Improvements in the DBs should allow the both starters a little more freedom - and they are both smart and active. Not worrying and covering for the DBs they will be able to free lance and make more plays. The addition of Josh Jones is huge. He is a different player than we have had in a long while. He is very a very athletic tone-setter. He will be providing a lot of leadership. I am betting he sees the field as much as King as the dime DB playing some kind of mutant CB/LB/S role. Jones will have an impact and be our DROY. I think with the improvements at CB, HaHa is really going to come into his own. I am predicting he will lead the league in INTs for safeties and have a big year. A friend, who knows football, is a big Brice fan and is predicting big things. Me? I'm not sure he will see the field much, but it's a comfort to know there is some quality depth to develop.

ILB
Better
Keep Ryan, Martinez, Jones
Losses/Gains None
Ryan and Martinez are decent players. Ryan started to play well towards the end of the season and Martinez did worse. Martinez looked promising in the preseason, but did not click during the season. An offseason of preparation should do him wonders. Joe Thomas has a different set of skills and is still developing. Not really expecting much more from him though. These players are all young and all appear to be nowhere near topped out. Martinez and Ryan still have lots of unrealized upside and they appear to be trending in that direction.

OLB
Worse
Keep CM3, Perry, Elliot, Frackrell
Gains Biegel
Losses Peppers, Jones
Clay is on the decline. Perry is a concern. He cashed in big, hope he keeps up the hard work. Peppers loss is minimal, he wasn't nearly as effective this season and it is easy to forecast things will continue to decline. Jones loss isn't much of a setback either. The 'worse' rating is basex on the decline of Clay and a bit on the loss of veteran depth. Frackrel is still an unknown but should be better, he spent the off-season dedicated on getting better and it shows. I suspect last season's development was hampered still from the lingering college injury. Biegel - I am not a believer. Hope he does well, it is a nice story, but I just don't think he will help much. His foot injury certainly didn't do much to improve my opinion. Elliot, the eternal tease. This is the year to shi* or get off the pot. Currently it looks like we are in the decline, but there is certainly some youthful talent that could surprise.

DL
Better
Keep Daniels, Clark, Lowry, Ringo
Gains Ricky Jean-Francois, Adams
Losses Guion
Additions of Ricky Jean-Francois, Lowry 's 2nd year step, and drafting Adams should improve the depth. Daniels is a stud - probably plateaued as a player, but I trust him to maintain his level of play. Clark showed great promise as a rookie. I am anticipating a significant step up in his game this season. Guion may have his career on a thin string. Ringo may yet step it up. We will have more and better depth this season. A more rested line will be more effective. If Adams can come in a play a dozen snaps per game, getting his feet underneath him, he can have an impact. RJF is a solid player. Lowry is a player a lot of people are excited about. Clark began looking effective down the stretch last season as well. If both can build on their rookie year, we may have a special DL.


Overall, there are some synergies on defense that may happen. Repairing the hole at CB, will give the OLBs a fraction of a second more time to get a sack. Our safeties can range to the feel of the play, rather than cheating over the top of poor coverage. We have a lot of young talent that appears poised to step up. There are no holes at this time and significant depth at S and DL. Sure it would be nice to have some more experienced depth at CB, but we do have some interesting youngsters. If 2 or 3 of the players showed promise last season can take a step, and another surprise player can bring some impact plays, this can be a very good defense.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Dont have a ton of time to reply right now. I'm overall very skeptical about our defense this year, and think that it could sink us to sub 10 wins quite easily.

-Secondary: Better, but still unproven and very raw. Some big name guys could totally flame out and we may end up having to put more draft capital into it to keep pace. In reality, this personnel group should be a strength of the team, but that will require proving.
-D-Line: Better, doubtlessly the strongest part of the defene.
-OLB: Worse. It's Perry, then everyone else.
-ILB: Same; still mediocre at best.

 

[Yogididit]

Our secondary right now is better than what we had at the end of last year, think that is safe to say. But is our perception of our secondary better than what we thought last year at this time? I don't think it is. Last year we all hoped that R&R would improve on a decent rookie year and that obviously didn't happen, so they both have to be ranked lower than they were. Shields > King I think is also a safe bet, although I hope that isn't true for long. As I see it, only House is an improvement over last year's preseason team.

Agree with all the other positions, except maybe your opinion of HaHa. If you've seen my posts on other sites, I'm not a fan of his and don't think he's a playmaker yet.

 

[Reese2017]

Dont have a ton of time to reply right now. I'm overall very skeptical about our defense this year, and think that it could sink us to sub 10 wins quite easily.

-Secondary: Better, but still unproven and very raw. Some big name guys could totally flame out and we may end up having to put more draft capital into it to keep pace. In reality, this personnel group should be a strength of the team, but that will require proving.
-D-Line: Better, doubtlessly the strongest part of the defene.
-OLB: Worse. It's Perry, then everyone else.
-ILB: Same; still mediocre at best.

So you still keeping out hope for ringo sorry did you watch any games last year ringo is to small I keep trying to educate people price is the real deal he won lineman challenge as an undrated rook the first time Daniels has lost it I know he only played 10 plays against the lions but he looked good and Alonzo high smith swears by him dont look now but he's coming!!!!!

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

So you still keeping out hope for ringo sorry did you watch any games last year ringo is to small I keep trying to educate people price is the real deal he won lineman challenge as an undrated rook the first time Daniels has lost it I know he only played 10 plays against the lions but he looked good and Alonzo high smith swears by him dont look now but he's coming!!!!!

It's like you used words I understand, but not in any order that made any sense...

 

[Reese2017]

It's like you used words I understand, but not in any order that made any sense...

So elaborate

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Some don't see any improvements in our defense. Others, like myself, see a lot of promise in this team. So looking at position groups, are we better, worse, or the same from this time last year?



CB
Much Better

Keep Randall, Rollins, Hawkins, Gunter, Goodson
Loss Shields
Gains King, House
Can't get much worse. I liked Shields, but he wasn't a great matchup to some of the WR threats out there. The regression of our 2 first year players, Rollins and Randall, along with the career ending injury to Shields, really messed up this season. When your 4th string UFA CB is covering Julio Jones, you know things did not go as planned. Groin injuries to Rollins and Randall in training camp hopefully account for their regression after promising rookie seasons. Addition of Kevin King is a longer term investment that won't solve our problems immediately. Hopefully he is up to speed by seasons end and is starting to make some plays. Expect a few rookie mistakes along the way. House is a bigger addition this season in my mind. He played very well as a Packer, covering the opponents #1 receiver and doing a decent job. He will be helped this time around by a much improved S corps.

S
Better
Keep HHCD, Burnet, Brice
Gains Josh Jones
Our deepest most talented position. Ha Ha is continuing to develop. Burnet has maxed out. Both were hamstrung last season with an inferior CB crew. Improvements in the DBs should allow the both starters a little more freedom - and they are both smart and active. Not worrying and covering for the DBs they will be able to free lance and make more plays. The addition of Josh Jones is huge. He is a different player than we have had in a long while. He is very a very athletic tone-setter. He will be providing a lot of leadership. I am betting he sees the field as much as King as the dime DB playing some kind of mutant CB/LB/S role. Jones will have an impact and be our DROY. I think with the improvements at CB, HaHa is really going to come into his own. I am predicting he will lead the league in INTs for safeties and have a big year. A friend, who knows football, is a big Brice fan and is predicting big things. Me? I'm not sure he will see the field much, but it's a comfort to know there is some quality depth to develop.

ILB
Better
Keep Ryan, Martinez, Jones
Losses/Gains None
Ryan and Martinez are decent players. Ryan started to play well towards the end of the season and Martinez did worse. Martinez looked promising in the preseason, but did not click during the season. An offseason of preparation should do him wonders. Joe Thomas has a different set of skills and is still developing. Not really expecting much more from him though. These players are all young and all appear to be nowhere near topped out. Martinez and Ryan still have lots of unrealized upside and they appear to be trending in that direction.

OLB
Worse
Keep CM3, Perry, Elliot, Frackrell
Gains Biegel
Losses Peppers, Jones
Clay is on the decline. Perry is a concern. He cashed in big, hope he keeps up the hard work. Peppers loss is minimal, he wasn't nearly as effective this season and it is easy to forecast things will continue to decline. Jones loss isn't much of a setback either. The 'worse' rating is basex on the decline of Clay and a bit on the loss of veteran depth. Frackrel is still an unknown but should be better, he spent the off-season dedicated on getting better and it shows. I suspect last season's development was hampered still from the lingering college injury. Biegel - I am not a believer. Hope he does well, it is a nice story, but I just don't think he will help much. His foot injury certainly didn't do much to improve my opinion. Elliot, the eternal tease. This is the year to shi* or get off the pot. Currently it looks like we are in the decline, but there is certainly some youthful talent that could surprise.

DL
Better
Keep Daniels, Clark, Lowry, Ringo
Gains Ricky Jean-Francois, Adams
Losses Guion
Additions of Ricky Jean-Francois, Lowry 's 2nd year step, and drafting Adams should improve the depth. Daniels is a stud - probably plateaued as a player, but I trust him to maintain his level of play. Clark showed great promise as a rookie. I am anticipating a significant step up in his game this season. Guion may have his career on a thin string. Ringo may yet step it up. We will have more and better depth this season. A more rested line will be more effective. If Adams can come in a play a dozen snaps per game, getting his feet underneath him, he can have an impact. RJF is a solid player. Lowry is a player a lot of people are excited about. Clark began looking effective down the stretch last season as well. If both can build on their rookie year, we may have a special DL.


Overall, there are some synergies on defense that may happen. Repairing the hole at CB, will give the OLBs a fraction of a second more time to get a sack. Our safeties can range to the feel of the play, rather than cheating over the top of poor coverage. We have a lot of young talent that appears poised to step up. There are no holes at this time and significant depth at S and DL. Sure it would be nice to have some more experienced depth at CB, but we do have some interesting youngsters. If 2 or 3 of the players showed promise last season can take a step, and another surprise player can bring some impact plays, this can be a very good defense.

How does losing our only legitimate outside CB from a year ago result in a much better unit?

 

[jetfixer]

I think the defense should be better, that is barring no mass injuries.
D line will be better i'm thinking with the way Clark came on at the end of the year, i'm hopeful Adams is a surprise, and I think RJF will be a steady pro.
OLB is a bit of a scare and could send us over the top or sink the ship. ILB should be a bit better due to a year older (young players) and if Josh Jones is a good hybrid player, although watching some college film , i'm not impressed with his run game.
I think the secondary will be better overall, especially by the end of the year (some of the first games scare me) Safety should be strong, and CB i'm feeling better about, it will take King some time facing NFL offences.

 

[jetfixer]

How does losing our only legitimate outside CB from a year ago result in a much better unit?

Didn't we lose him game one, or preseason last year? In my mind we didn't have him. Shields

 

[AmishMafia]

How does losing our only legitimate outside CB from a year ago result in a much better unit?

Shields I liked but he had his limitations. I liked House better when we had him. Randall and Rollins both have an additional year under their belt and health is a big factor in their poor performance last year. I am have a higher on King than any rookie CB in a long time.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Amish nailed it, imo. .

 

[OldSchool101]

I just hope that what we gained in the secondary,we didn't lose in pass rush. IF.. and that's a big IF..we can somehow get these Safeties more involved in sustaining QB pressure and simultaneously find a way for our OLB group to step it up a notch? This young CB group could very well be just talented enough to become that opportunistic secondary we're accustomed to.

 

[Dantés]

In my opinion, the fate of the defense will boil down to whether Perry can stay healthy and whether young players can take positive steps forward.

If Perry is the same dude in 2017 that we saw last year for 15-16 games, and the majority of the players still on rookie deals make measurable progress (i.e. Clark, Lowry, Fackrell, Ryan, Martinez, Randall, Rollins), the defense should demonstrate substantial improvement.

Contributions from rookies would be gravy.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Some don't see any improvements in our defense. Others, like myself, see a lot of promise in this team. So looking at position groups, are we better, worse, or the same from this time last year?

There's no reason to believe the Packers defense significantly improved this offseason as Thompson only added two veterans in House and Jean Francois while losing Peppers, Jones and Hyde. It's possible some of the rookies have an impact this season it seems to me a lot of fans expect way too much out of them.

The team lacks a #1 cornerback as well as quality depth at outside linebacker. The inside linebackers are average at best. While the defensive line and safeties should be a strength of the unit I don't expect the unit to finish in the top half of the league in points allowed.

Groin injuries to Rollins and Randall in training camp hopefully account for their regression after promising rookie seasons. House is a bigger addition this season in my mind. He played very well as a Packer, covering the opponents #1 receiver and doing a decent job.

House was fourth on the depth chart during his last season with the Packers in 2014 and hardly covered opposing top receivers. Randall and Rollins didn't suffer groin injuries during training camp last year but struggled early during the season while being completely healthy.

The addition of Josh Jones is huge. He is a different player than we have had in a long while. He is very a very athletic tone-setter. He will be providing a lot of leadership. I am betting he sees the field as much as King as the dime DB playing some kind of mutant CB/LB/S role. Jones will have an impact and be our DROY.

It's probable that you're in for a huge disappointment regarding Jones' rookie season, especially if you truly believe he will provide leadership to the unit.

Peppers loss is minimal, he wasn't nearly as effective this season and it is easy to forecast things will continue to decline. Jones loss isn't much of a setback either.

It's strange to consider Peppers loss minimal as he had more sacks in 2016 than the current backups at outside linebacker have combined during their careers. While Jones didn't put up decent numbers he provides constant pressure from the edge last season.

There are no holes at this time and significant depth at S and DL.

You can't be serious about the Packers defense not having any holes.

So you still keeping out hope for ringo sorry did you watch any games last year ringo is to small I keep trying to educate people price is the real deal he won lineman challenge as an undrated rook the first time Daniels has lost it I know he only played 10 plays against the lions but he looked good and Alonzo high smith swears by him dont look now but he's coming!!!!!

You sound like Price's agent or a family member. Realistically he will have an upghill battle to make the roster on a talented position group though.

Shields I liked but he had his limitations. I liked House better when we had him.

That's truly a ridiculous statement to make.

In my opinion, the fate of the defense will boil down to whether Perry can stay healthy and whether young players can take positive steps forward.

If Perry is the same dude in 2017 that we saw last year for 15-16 games, and the majority of the players still on rookie deals make measurable progress (i.e. Clark, Lowry, Fackrell, Ryan, Martinez, Randall, Rollins), the defense should demonstrate substantial improvement.

Contributions from rookies would be gravy.

Once again, there's a lot of hope being put into the defense significantly improving. It's probable that not all of the things necessary for that to happen will occur though.

 

[Dantés]

There's no reason to believe the Packers defense significantly improved this offseason as Thompson only added two veterans in House and Jean Francois while losing Peppers, Jones and Hyde. It's possible some of the rookies have an impact this season it seems to me a lot of fans expect way too much out of them.

The team lacks a #1 cornerback as well as quality depth at outside linebacker. The inside linebackers are average at best. While the defensive line and safeties should be a strength of the unit I don't expect the unit to finish in the top half of the league in points allowed.



House was fourth on the depth chart during his last season with the Packers in 2014 and hardly covered opposing top receivers. Randall and Rollins didn't suffer groin injuries during training camp last year but struggled early during the season while being completely healthy.



It's probable that you're in for a huge disappointment regarding Jones' rookie season, especially if you truly believe he will provide leadership to the unit.



It's strange to consider Peppers loss minimal as he had more sacks in 2016 than the current backups at outside linebacker have combined during their careers. While Jones didn't put up decent numbers he provides constant pressure from the edge last season.



You can't be serious about the Packers defense not having any holes.



You sound like Price's agent or a family member. Realistically he will have an upghill battle to make the roster on a talented position group though.



That's truly a ridiculous statement to make.



Once again, there's a lot of hope being put into the defense significantly improving. It's probable that not all of the things necessary for that to happen will occur though.

Once again? Were we just talking about this somewhere else?

I wasn't saying that the defense will necessarily be significantly improved. I was pointing out what that potential improvement would likely require.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Once again? Were we just talking about this somewhere else?

The topic has been discussed in-depth on the forum all offseason.

I wasn't saying that the defense will necessarily be significantly improved. I was pointing out what that potential improvement would likely require.

I agree there's a slim possibility the defense significantly improves if a lot of things go the Packers way. Unfortunately taking a realistic look at it some players won't develop as expected and others will get injured over the course of the season.

 

[RepStar15]

I think its impossible to tell if we will be better or worse than last year at this point. I do think if we are better than last year and maintain health, this is a Super Bowl team.

 

[PackAttack12]

I think its impossible to tell if we will be better or worse than last year at this point. I do think if we are better than last year and maintain health, this is a Super Bowl team.

Really going out on a limb saying that if we are better, a NFC Championship game participant from last season is a Super Bowl team this season.

Just teasing.

 

[AmishMafia]

There's no reason to believe the Packers defense significantly improved this offseason as Thompson only added two veterans in House and Jean Francois while losing Peppers and Hyde.

So in your opinion the Packers have no players improving. Clarke, Rollins, Randall, Haha, Ryan, Martinez, Frackell, and Lowry have all maxed out as players. Got it.

House was fourth on the depth chart during his last season with the Packers in 2014 and hardly covered opposing top receivers. Randall and Rollins didn't suffer groin injuries during training camp last year but struggled early during the season while being completely healthy.

That's not how I remember it. I seem to recall House lining up against the #1 receiver. I recall being surprised at that and then surprised at how well he did. He also did well in Jacksonville his first season.

It's strange to consider Peppers loss minimal as he had more sacks in 2016 than the current backups at outside linebacker have combined during their careers. While Jones didn't put up decent numbers he provides constant pressure from the edge last season.

Sack stats only matter when it supports your argument? Peppers was neutralized often by a single blocker. His decline was obvious to even the casual observer.

That's truly a ridiculous statement to make.

And yet House had a better season than Shields last year and now Shields is out of football. Another fun fact, Shields never played in all 16 games in 7 seasons with the Pack. Even with the benefit of hindsight you get it wrong.

 

[Mondio]

Houses biggest detriment while here was a common theme, he was not healthy a lot. Then he was mostly, did well and got paid from someone else.

I think secondary will be quite a bit better with healthy guys than last year. I don't know if we'll have great sack numbers, but I think our rush will be more consistent because we'll have more push in the middle.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So in your opinion the Packers have no players improving. Clarke, Rollins, Randall, Haha, Ryan, Martinez, Frackell, and Lowry have all maxed out as players. Got it.

The Packers will definitely have players on the defensive side of the ball improving this season. You ignore that there's a possibility some guys regress, don't develop as expected or get injured though.

That's not how I remember it. I seem to recall House lining up against the #1 receiver. I recall being surprised at that and then surprised at how well he did.

House rarely started during his first stint with the Packers, therefore it seems natural he didn't cover opposing top receivers. You probably remember him doing pretty well against Julio Jones in the second half of that shootout during the 2014 season but that is the only time I can recall him being used as the #1 cornerback.

Sack stats only matter when it supports your argument? Peppers was neutralized often by a single blocker. His decline was obvious to even the casual observer.

There's no doubt Peppers declined last season but there's no reason to believe Elliott, Fackrell and Biegel present an upgrade over him.

And yet House had a better season than Shields last year and now Shields is out of football. Another fun fact, Shields never played in all 16 games in 7 seasons with the Pack. Even with the benefit of hindsight you get it wrong.

It's ludicrous to argue that House, who struggled mightily last season, had a better year than Shields as the latter suffered a career ending injury. In addition House having played in 16 games three times during his career doesn't mean he has been a better cornerback than Shields by any means.

 

[AmishMafia]

The Packers will definitely have players on the defensive side of the ball improving this season. You ignore that there's a possibility some guys regress, don't develop as expected or get injured though.

You stated that was no reason to think the Packers improved defensively. Young players improving is an obvious opportunity for the defense to be better. Whether it is offset by other players regressing is another matter. It is a reason the Packers could be better.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You stated that was no reason to think the Packers improved defensively. Young players improving is an obvious opportunity for the defense to be better. Whether it is offset by other players regressing is another matter. It is a reason the Packers could be better.

The defense would only significantly improve with every single one of the returning players performing at a higher level. Unfortunately that's extremely unlikely to happen though.

King and Jones are the key to the unit's success in 2017 but in my opinion a lot of fans expect way too much out of both rookies entering this season.

 

[Dantés]

The defense would only significantly improve with every single one of the returning players performing at a higher level. Unfortunately that's extremely unlikely to happen though.

King and Jones are the key to the unit's success in 2017 but in my opinion a lot of fans expect way too much out of both rookies entering this season.

I don't think it's true at all that every single young player must take a step forward for the defense to make a significant improvement. Certainly we'd need to see that out of the majority of them. But if all of them stepped up except, say, Martinez and Rollins, I don't think we're simply consigned to being as bad or worse as we were last year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think it's true at all that every single young player must take a step forward for the defense to make a significant improvement. Certainly we'd need to see that out of the majority of them.

It's even unrealistic to expect the majority of the young players on defense to significantly improve though.