Official studs and duds Viking game

[C-Lee]

Quarter 1 was bliss
Quarter 2-4 was painful.

I totally thought we were going to lose this one, but the defense came through again. I'm not used to this!

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm willing to give this offense and its WR's some more time, but Gute and MLF have to be wondering if they didn't screw the pooch by not signing a decent FA WR this past off season. I don't think drafting one was the answer, at least not for 2019. However, there were plenty of decent WR's to be had in Free Agency or trades and the Packers sat pat on a group of WR's that so far don't look all that great to me, dropped passes and not getting open very consistently.

I get it though, you have a lot of young potential on the group and then the hope that Allison can make the jump. Allison's TD catch was nice, but beyond that, Adams seemed to be the only NFL caliber WR on the field for the Packers.

Correct. I might have eggs thrown at me but that’s s when you lean on experience. Trevor Davis and Jake Kumerow have enough off-seasons behind them to get out there and shine.
I said the same thing last year about using more of our TEs with Lance and a Marcades sitting on the bench. I nearly got castrated by posters in here and We flat out ignored our 2 veteran TEs in passing. A waste of 4M. How did it work in 2018 just “pressing on”?? Not so good beyond MVS and Davante.

I’d consider doing what Dallas did with Cooper and make our push now while it’s early. If we had an AJ Green type WR this O would instantly look better.

 

[greengold]

LOL....really? Come on man, have you seen what Rodgers has done during his career with under 2 minutes in the game? This isn't about MLF and Rodgers and who should be calling the shots, this is about one play, one guy (MLF) stepping in, because he saw something Rodgers didn't (4th down). No different than Rodgers going with an audible at the LOS when he sees something MLF didn't expect. Neither #12 or MLF should take it personal when they are working together for the betterment of the team.

I like some of your posts, but I really think you need some clearer vision or take a step back on this whole Rodgers thing, because you seem to be trying very hard to stretch every little thing into "its Rodgers fault".

I think gbgary has some validity there with what he said. Aaron has some unlearning to do from what I consider to be misuse and poor coaching by McCarthy, and that stuff does not happen overnight. Aaron Rodgers is paid very handsomely to not be making these kinds of mistakes, and there are aspects of his game that need improvement, or maybe, a change in philosophy. I don't see this as bashing, but pointing out what really occurred.

Granted, I don't know a lot of people here and their tendencies, but, I can see and agree with the two points he made. LaFleur needs to be more attentive as a HC in gametime situations like that very one that did possibly cost us 3 pts. These are simply kinks that need to be worked out in any new system, and we have an unusual situation with a 2-Time MVP at QB learning - and - unlearning some stuff.

OldSchool101, Bring on Kumerow!!!! I agree, and think he would add to our effectiveness on O.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think gbgary has some validity there with what he said. Aaron has some unlearning to do from what I consider to be misuse and poor coaching by McCarthy, and that stuff does not happen overnight. Aaron Rodgers is paid very handsomely to not be making these kinds of mistakes, and there are aspects of his game that need improvement, or maybe, a change in philosophy. I don't see this as bashing, but pointing out what really occurred.

Granted, I don't know a lot of people here and their tendencies, but, I can see and agree with the two points he made. LaFleur needs to be more attentive as a HC in gametime situations like that very one that did possibly cost us 3 pts. These are simply kinks that need to be worked out in any new system, and we have an unusual situation with a 2-Time MVP at QB learning - and - unlearning some stuff.

OldSchool101, Bring on Kumerow!!!! I agree, and think he would add to our effectiveness on O.

You could have a point and maybe this is the "boy who cried wolf" thing going on. Once you start overstating something over and over and over, people might stop listening, even if you are correct.

In the 4th down situation yesterday, I totally disagree with the idea that this had anything to do with "Rodgers personality" or "Rodgers ignoring MLF". Simply, it was a very good player ******** up and later taking full blame for it. Anyone who wants to make more out of that then it really was, has some kind of hidden agenda IMO. Next time Rodgers throws an interception on an audible, are people going to jump in and say "AH HA! See, Rodgers is undermining MLF's authority and now he is throwing interceptions!'

 

[Mondio]

You could have a point and maybe this is the "boy who cried wolf" thing going on. Once you start overstating something over and over and over, people might stop listening, even if you are correct.

In the 4th down situation yesterday, I totally disagree with the idea that this had anything to do with "Rodgers personality" or "Rodgers ignoring MLF". Simply, it was a very good player ******** up and later taking full blame for it. Anyone who wants to make more out of that then it really was, has some kind of hidden agenda IMO. Next time Rodgers throws an interception on an audible, are people going to jump in and say "AH HA! See, Rodgers is undermining MLF's authority and now he is throwing interceptions!'

First, AR today, was not what he started the league as. I cringe everytime I see he was "poorly coached". Give respect and credit where due. The player and the coach put in the work that was tops in the league for quite a while here. Neither was "poor" at their job or the work they put in.

and after that,it was a mistake, where our QB saw one of the officials spot a first down, the thought was generous and figured we'd have to get a play off quick to keep it that way, hence the hurry up. The HC needs to realize it was still 4th down and he wanted a FG and call the TO. None of this had anything to do with the side bars set up by the Florio's of the world.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Correct. I might have eggs thrown at me but that’s s when you lean on experience. Trevor Davis and Jake Kumerow have enough off-seasons behind them to get out there and shine.
I said the same thing last year about using more of our TEs with Lance and a Marcades sitting on the bench. I nearly got castrated by posters in here and We flat out ignored our 2 veteran TEs in passing. A waste of 4M. How did it work in 2018 just “pressing on”?? Not so good beyond MVS and Davante.

I’d consider doing what Dallas did with Cooper and make our push now while it’s early. If we had an AJ Green type WR this O would instantly look better.

After the game, at a tailgate party I was talking to a huge Packer fan, he insists that the Packers need to get Dez Bryant in Green Bay as soon as possible. While I wouldn't like that and I don't want to panic and do something stupid, I would keep an eye on that trade deadline (10/29) and if Gute feels the Packer WR group isn't as strong as thought, I wouldn't be opposed to making a trade for a quality WR if our season is otherwise still looking promising. Only problem is, how long does it take to get even a veteran WR on the same page as Rodgers? Maybe Jordy or Jones want to come out of retirement?

Like I said, I'm not panicking yet in regards to this WR group, but I am a bit disappointed thus far, but its only 2 games against 2 very solid defenses. The Denver game will possibly give us a better indication where the offense is and if not then, the Eagles game definitely should. The Eagles defense gave up 380 passing yards and 3 TD's to Case Keenum and 320 yds and 3 TD's to Matt Ryan. After that game, IMO the Packers offense will be 4 games in and out of excuses if the Passing game isn't improved and more consistent.

 

[ShockwaveRider]

I watched the game alone and came to grips with "it's not easy to win in the NFL" and "a win is a win is a win".

Particularly against the loathsome and detestable Vikings.

But I think some of you guys are right; we really do need an upgrade at WR. Take away DA17 and we're "pretty much screwed".

Not that I believe RC18 is / was the answer (although I loved him as a person) nor that we should investigate Dez Bryant.

STUDS

DA17, before he got effectively taken out of the game.

AJ33, 23/116

Defense, for saving the day when gifted with a 21 point lead.

Bart and Cherry Starr. BF4 for accompanying Cherry Starr out onto the field.

DUDS

WRs other than DA17.

 

[gbgary]

Only problem is, how long does it take to get even a veteran WR on the same page as Rodgers?

yup. he can't get himself to throw to the guys he has other than adams. if he could be more favre-like, in that he will throw to anyone who's open, it would make things so much easier for him. the results would be better for the team too. you just know there's tape of him ignoring open guys yesterday too. yesterday the O looked too much like 2018 for there not to be.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

yup. he can't get himself to throw to the guys he has other than adams. if he could be more favre-like, in that he will throw to anyone who's open, it would make things so much easier for him. the results would be better for the team too. you just know there's tape of him ignoring open guys yesterday too. yesterday the O looked too much like 2018 for there not to be.

LOL.....How did I just know that you were going to make this about Rodgers? As I typed my post, I thought, "I better put a disclaimer along with it or Gary is going to jump all over it" and you did.

I will now add that disclaimer, "I don't hold Rodgers at fault for this, it has just been the way that it has been with the way he runs the Packer Offense. Much like many QB's, he relies a lot on the chemistry and the trust that he establishes over time with his WR's, except it or don't."

 

[swhitset]

I read earlier that the 4th down thing before the half was Aaron Rodgers thinking that it was first down and that they had a first down on the previous play and due to a questionable spot, actually did not. MLF said he should have called a timeout, but Aaron ran the next play pretty quickly and they just went with it. MLF made it clear that he would have elected to try a FG.

I was at the game and am anxious to watch it again. I keep seeing way too many questionable spots. They might only be off a yard, a football, a half of football, but in the end that can be costly. I really think the NFL needs to figure out a better way at getting the spot correct.

While I agree that the spot needs to be correct, at no time while I was watching did I think that play had gained a first down. I watched the game twice, and it was pretty obvious that he was short.

 

[RRyder]

Everyone has made their Studs/Duds so won't add much more than this. Jimmy Graham was an absolute stud in New Orleans because the coaches put him into a position to take advantage of his skills and never see him blocking. Carroll in Seattle, MM and now MLF have all decided to try to make Jimmy Graham a blocking TE. That is such a failure as a head coach. When will MLF figure out that Graham will NEVER ever be a blocking TE. We have Mercedes Lewis on this roster to be the blocking TE while Graham is the pass catching TE until Tonyan and Jace kick both of them of the roster.

Screw it. I'll say it. Graham was perceived as an absolute stud in NO because they just used him like any other WR and he put up numbers comparable to average to good WRs while being listed as a TE while pretty much just being a big wideout.

Now father time has gotten him to the point where he cant just be an effective WR anymore and he hasnt improved in his other aspects to be an effective TE (a position he was never good at playing despite it being his listed position)

Really there wouldn't be a difference between just listing Allison as a TE and playing him over Graham.... I take that back.... Allison would be both a better receiver and blocker over Graham

 

[Mondio]

yup. he can't get himself to throw to the guys he has other than adams. if he could be more favre-like, in that he will throw to anyone who's open, it would make things so much easier for him. the results would be better for the team too. you just know there's tape of him ignoring open guys yesterday too. yesterday the O looked too much like 2018 for there not to be.

Williams, Jones, MVS, Allison, Graham, Kumerow, Lewis, all had targets. In one of the last drives it was 3 straight passes to MVS, Jones and MVS again. Prior to that it was to Williams, to Graham and to Kumrow. Your narrative is old. Step back, re-*****, do something. But your bias is clearly clouding everything you do or say these days.

 

[Mondio]

While I agree that the spot needs to be correct, at no time while I was watching did I think that play had gained a first down. I watched the game twice, and it was pretty obvious that he was short.

I think Rodgers knew it too, he said he thought the spot was pretty favorable for us and wanted to get a play off before it was called in for replay.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I agree that the spot needs to be correct, at no time while I was watching did I think that play had gained a first down. I watched the game twice, and it was pretty obvious that he was short.

Yeah that play was way down on the other end of the field and hidden to me, I never saw it close up or from the right angle. When I said "the refs really need to do a better job spotting the ball after a play", I was talking in generalities. Yesterday, I saw quite a few, what I refer to as "lazy spots" by the refs. Spots where they really weren't focused enough on where the ball actually was in relation to where the player was tackled or went out of bounds. When you are a bit bored sometime, watch the players knee/foot or whatever body part makes him down/out of bounds and then look where the ball is at that exact moment and then where the refs place the ball. Way too many times I have seen the refs mark the ball down at least a half if not a full yard behind where the ball actually was and in some cases ahead. Refs also tend to cheat you out of 1/2 yard on a return, if you are tackled at the 22 1/2 yardline, they seem more likely to mark it at the 22 to begin a new series. I know its knit picky on my part, but in a game where inches can matter, I get annoyed when refs seems to casually take away 18 or so inches with one bad spot.

 

[AmishMafia]

I will now add that disclaimer, "I don't hold Rodgers at fault for this, it has just been the way that it has been with the way he runs the Packer Offense. Much like many QB's, he relies a lot on the chemistry and the trust that he establishes over time with his WR's, except it or don't."

So long as you dont blame the WRs. If you believe what you wrote, then you should be against a new WR as AR and he will be starting from scratch. AR has good things to say about MVS and GMo. So i would think the chemistry is there. Or maybe Adams is usually the first option on most plays. Doubtfull.

But go to the 4th quarter on our 3 and out with about 5 mins. Our 2nd to last possession. AR throws high to MVS. MVS goes up and makes a great catch but gets run out of bounds. Lower and/or a 1/2 second sooner, that moves the chains. The next play he underthrows Jones along the sideline. Jones slows down and the LB covering him bats it away. 5 ft further and thats a big gainer. There were other missed opportunities by AR.

Putting AR or the WRs on the duds list doesnt make sense to me. But to me, other than the fumble, the WR corps did okay. AR was more to blame for their shortcomings.

 

[Do7]

So long as you dont blame the WRs. If you believe what you wrote, then you should be against a new WR as AR and he will be starting from scratch. AR has good things to say about MVS and GMo. So i would think the chemistry is there. Or maybe Adams is usually the first option on most plays. Doubtfull.

But go to the 4th quarter on our 3 and out with about 5 mins. Our 2nd to last possession. AR throws high to MVS. MVS goes up and makes a great catch but gets run out of bounds. Lower and/or a 1/2 second sooner, that moves the chains. The next play he underthrows Jones along the sideline. Jones slows down and the LB covering him bats it away. 5 ft further and thats a big gainer. There were other missed opportunities by AR.

Putting AR or the WRs on the duds list doesnt make sense to me. But to me, other than the fumble, the WR corps did okay. AR was more to blame for their shortcomings.

Idk about that last part, the receivers were dropping balls that hit their hands. That's why I had listed them as duds overall. I feel like that was more on them than Rodgers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Idk about that last part, the receivers were dropping balls that hit their hands. That's why I had listed them as duds overall. I feel like that was more on them than Rodgers.

I agree with this, more than I would blame AR and it also should be pointed out that the Viking Secondary, after that first Q, woke up. I am going to have to watch the game again tonight and I want to actually watch the WR's and their efforts in routes. But the drops and the quitting on routes that I saw several times was more of what I was concerned about.

Part of AR's "additional magic" is what he can create and make happen when plays break down. Blaming him or young/new receivers for not being able to pull that off is silly. Of course he and a receiver that have been working together for years are going to be able to have more success doing this then 2 guys who just don't have a lot of time together would be able to pull off. So when I refer to the chemistry between Rodgers and his receivers, it has more to do with knowing what each other are going to do, when simple routes just don't go as expected. How many times have you heard best friends or Married couples say "they know me so well, they can finish my sentence". That is what I am talking about.

 

[AmishMafia]

Idk about that last part, the receivers were dropping balls that hit their hands. That's why I had listed them as duds overall. I feel like that was more on them than Rodgers.

I dont recall a single drop where i thought it should be caught. Im sure there were some, and my memory lags sometimes.

I checked stats and according to Fox, no packers have been credited with a drop.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats...CEIVING&opp=0&sort=10&qualified=1&sortOrder=0

Hard to believe.

 

[GleefulGary]

yup. he can't get himself to throw to the guys he has other than adams. if he could be more favre-like, in that he will throw to anyone who's open, it would make things so much easier for him. the results would be better for the team too. you just know there's tape of him ignoring open guys yesterday too. yesterday the O looked too much like 2018 for there not to be.

Sometimes I'm not sure if you're watching the same games as everybody else.

Adams had 29% of the targets, 32% of the receptions. Which is right where he should be. Where would you think those numbers should be?

Again, there is a difference between missing open players and ignoring open players.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I dont recall a single drop where i thought it should be caught. Im sure there were some, and my memory lags sometimes.

I checked stats and according to Fox, no packers have been credited with a drop.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats...CEIVING&opp=0&sort=10&qualified=1&sortOrder=0

Hard to believe.

I would find that very odd since I see the stat 40 receptions on 64 targets for the Packers. Now maybe the 24 incompletions are all being attested to Rodgers or the defense, but I doubt it.

 

[Mavster]

Adams - 2nd round
MVS - 5th Round
Davis - 5th Round
Allison - UDFA
Kumerow - UDFA (on his third team)
Shepherd - UDFA
Lazard - UDFA
Saint Brown* - 6th Round

WHY IS ADAMS GETTING ALL THE TARGETS!!!

 

[Do7]

Adams - 1st round
MVS - 5th Round
Davis - 5th Round
Allison - UDFA
Kumerow - UDFA (on his third team)
Shepherd - UDFA
Lazard - UDFA
Saint Brown* - 6th Round

WHY IS ADAMS GETTING ALL THE TARGETS!!!

Yeah...this year we need to draft a receiver in the early rounds.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Adams - 2nd round
MVS - 5th Round
Davis - 5th Round
Allison - UDFA
Kumerow - UDFA (on his third team)
Shepherd - UDFA
Lazard - UDFA
Saint Brown* - 6th Round

WHY IS ADAMS GETTING ALL THE TARGETS!!!

I don't think he is necessarily getting all the targets, but he has been far more productive than everyone else on that list. Sure, I would agree, that you would expect more out of him given that he was a 2nd rounder in 2014. The rest of the list are also guys who have been in the league for less time and far less snaps.

Despite preseason and hype, I think that most of us were very well aware of the fact that Gute and the Packers put together a very young and inexperienced WR group and are keeping their fingers crossed that most of them perform up to expectations. I posted all their stats last month before cuts and its actually kind of scary how everyone but Adams is a virtual NFL unknown.

Is it time to hit the panic button? Probably not. Time to be concerned? Maybe a little. One thing I am pretty certain of; Rodgers, Gute, MLF and everyone else on the Packers is not saying "Man this group of receivers is a force to be reckoned with, watch out NFL!"

All that said, it's the group that the Packers decided to hitch their wagons to in 2019. Short of trading away future assets to bring in other players, it is probably the group that the Packers will have to rely on and hope that they all can step up and become solid WR's. One other route the Packers could take is to kick the tires on a few available vets, but not so sure that would change much and probably too early to even think about doing.

The list of "Top" WR's that are currently FA's isn't very impressive to me:

1. Dez Bryant
2. Martavis Bryant
3. Kelvin Benjamin
4. Pierre Garcon
5. Deonte Thompson
6. Bruce Ellington
7. Jordan Matthews

 

[Pugger]

Saying Geronimo is a liability out there is just wrong. imo. He tried for too much and fumbled. What, nobody fumbles in football? He gets open and has good hands. Unfortunately MVS does not seem to be able to get open much and he is playing where Geronimo is most effective. Ergo, MVS better step up his game.
Studs: Martinez, Clark, King, Adams, Jones

Yes, but it was a huge turnover and switched the momentum in the game towards MN.

 

[Pugger]

Studs:

Defense top to bottom.

Aaron Jones

*honorable mention to MVS. Everyone ******* on our WR corps, but is see tons of potential. Yes I'd love if we had a CLEAR #2 but I also love we have arguably 3 clear #3 level WRs. MVS was in the right spot a lot, and that catch (no catch as pushed out of bounds) was the best catch I've seen a Packer hold on to in a LONG TIME.


Duds:

Playcalling got way to passive in the middle part of game...let's learn to push the petal harder when opponent is on the ropes not set the cruise control.

Jaire Alexander's one play...that touchdown to Diggs happened solely because he went for pick instead of defending. Dude is a BEAST, but gotta know when to pick and choose when to try and snag or deflect.

I don't know if the playcalling got passive or if MN bottled up #17 and we didn't have another WR get open consistently enough.