Official GB vs Viks studs n duds

[azrsx05]

Soon Rodgers will start talking about how he is considering retirement. Skip all off season activities and a decide he misses the game to much... We then draft his replacement and he goes and plays for the Vikings

 

[Mondio]

It's not going to fix it. There are so many plays out there to be made that aren't. Go ahead and get new coaches, but it's like thinking a new wife will make you happier, in the end, most times you're just divorced again and just as miserable. MM and AR are both good enough to make this better and the best option is they figure it out before it's too late.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree with this... but i’m guessing you didn’t read the linked article.... because I really agree with the points made in it about Rodgers...and i’m not convinced a new coach is going to fix that.

You are correct, I had only listened to the talking heads on the video link and their analysis was more "change in coaching is needed". The article was a good break down of things Rodgers himself has to correct. I agree and think that without a coaching change, you are less likely to see Rodgers bad habits change. Not to over defend Rodgers, but a lot of his bad habits (wanting to hit the long pass too often) stem from the history of needing those plays in order to win with the current team. Is he consciously or subconsciously saying to himself "we aren't going to score enough sticking to MM's script, so I am going to go deep", I don't know.

So yes, for the Packers to get better, AR needs to get better too. I think he stands a better chance at both wanting to as well as accomplishing that with a new HC and outlook.

 

[swhitset]

You are correct, I had only listened to the talking heads on the video link and their analysis was more "change in coaching is needed". The article was a good break down of things Rodgers himself has to correct. I agree and think that without a coaching change, you are less likely to see Rodgers bad habits change. Not to over defend Rodgers, but a lot of his bad habits (wanting to hit the long pass too often) stem from the history of needing those plays in order to win with the current team. Is he consciously or subconsciously saying to himself "we aren't going to score enough sticking to MM's script, so I am going to go deep", I don't know.

So yes, for the Packers to get better, AR needs to get better too. I think he stands a better chance at both wanting to as well as accomplishing that with a new HC and outlook.

I hope so... because we are stuck with him either way lol.

 

[PackAttack12]

Again, not absolving Rodgers, but you cannot expect him to make every single play in every single game just for the Packers to have a chance to win a game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's not going to fix it. There are so many plays out there to be made that aren't. Go ahead and get new coaches, but it's like thinking a new wife will make you happier, in the end, most times you're just divorced again and just as miserable. MM and AR are both good enough to make this better and the best option is they figure it out before it's too late.

So are you saying MM and AR need marriage counseling? While your analogy is a bit odd, it probably isn't that far off. Personally, I have seen a few "flawed couples" divorce and both become very happy in other relationships. People change over time and grow apart because of that change. IMO MM and AR have grown apart and expecting them to go back to being the happy couple they once were, is a lot bigger of a mountain to climb then to just say "shake hands and lets go back to the way it once was". I don't doubt MM could still be a good coach, I just think that his time doing it with the current Packer team is over. Maybe they both need a fresh start apart and if I had to chose keeping one in Green Bay, it would be Rodgers, who with his current contract, really leaves us no other choice.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

This team is not playing with any enthusiasm. I guess it's kind of hard when you keep losing.

I find it interesting that they seem to play very well initially and then they seem to lose something.

I can see a noticeable difference since the LA game. They played a hard fought game that day and the way it ended, it looks like it took the wind out of their sails and they have not gotten it back.

It's hard to tell what the issue is or maybe it's no many issues that they just can't overcome them.

Not looking forward to the rest of the season.

Bummer.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I do expect a 30 million dollar a year QB to hit an easy first down and a wide open TD pass. It wasn't the only 2 bad passes in the game either. Everyone that thinks this team should win just because we have Rodgers, needs to re-watch his last 2 plays of this game. It's been happening at points all year long. If we can't depend on him to make those plays, then he needs to give us some money back.

His heart does not seem to be in it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I find it interesting that they seem to play very well initially and then they seem to lose something.

This actually hits on what IMO is the crux of the problem. The talent level in Green Bay really isn't THAT bad, however, its up to the coaches to not only keep the players heads in the game, but its up to the coaches to make adjustments during the game. I don't see either of those things happening. Now I am not going to sound ignorant and say that the coaches aren't making adjustments, but whatever they are or aren't doing, they seem to be getting out coached every step of the way most of the time.

 

[Mondio]

So are you saying MM and AR need marriage counseling? While your analogy is a bit odd, it probably isn't that far off. Personally, I have seen a few "flawed couples" divorce and both become very happy in other relationships. People change over time and grow apart because of that change. IMO MM and AR have grown apart and expecting them to go back to being the happy couple they once were, is a lot bigger of a mountain to climb then to just say "shake hands and lets go back to the way it once was". I don't doubt MM could still be a good coach, I just think that his time doing it with the current Packer team is over. Maybe they both need a fresh start apart and if I had to chose keeping one in Green Bay, it would be Rodgers, who with his current contract, really leaves us no other choice.

Even more people divorce the 2nd time around than the first and it jumps up to almost 3/4 of them end in divorce when they try and do it a 3rd time. There will always be trouble, strife, hard times etc. Right now we do have a good coach. and we have a good QB. Something is off and they'll figure it out. If you believe it's all MM and a "stale scheme" I don't think you've really been paying attention. He's not perfect, never has been and he's certainly coached up some stinkers at times. But all in all, he's pretty much as good as any coach not BB in New England. Even half the people here that are ready to have him gone now will concede that he'd most likely have a lot of success even in Cleveland.

This team has sustained for a long time, and been thru a lot of adversity over the years to show he's a good coach.

I don't need to go into the QB, everyone thinks he's God. Myself I think he's just a really good QB with flaws like everyone else. I've put a lot on him these past few weeks, mostly because nobody ever seems to think he fails the team, but it's never been more obvious than it is right now, that it works both ways. But when you watch these games, there are plays to be made and we're not making them. If it's a coaching thing, I believe MM will figure it out. I'm not convinced it's all coaching, at times yes, but missing an easy 2nd and 2 and then overthrowing Adams for the 2 or 3rd time in the game and at least 1 for an easy TD is not on the coach and scheme.

There are other parts too, all new pass catchers basically, half a season where the QB couldnt' practice with them, oline injury penalties, etc have all played their parts in this. It's NOT one thing. Both the coach and the QB are good enough to figure out and be successful. I'm confident that BOTH will work hard at doing it.

If any of this speculation that the QB has quit on the coach, which I don't believe at all, then we have much bigger problems than the coach. But when you have people really good at what they do, sometimes doing what it takes to figure it out is best in the long run. Or keep thinking it's not me, it's you and look for change. Those people are always looking for change. yeah, marriage and divorce might be an odd analogy, but even more marriages end in divorce the 2nd time around. it happens for 2 reasons. 2 good people decide it's too hard to work at it or what is so often, they think they'll find something better and they do, until they realize it was worse than before. Those people are never happy for long and it's the majority.

 

[SoonerPack]

I was texting with my buddy throughout the game last night and it was basically this:
"Man, Mike is calling a great game so far..."
"It looks like they got some things figured out..."
Adversity hits...
"What the h*#l is going on now??"
"3rd and 2...here comes the Hail Mary..."
"I am heading out front to take my wind sock down..."

Most of this falls on coaching, IMO. They were rolling along and playing with a ton of confidence. MIN keeps counter-punching and we just peter out. MIN makes adjustments and starts taking away some of the things that were working earlier and we revert back to our losing formula. Mike can call himself a "highly successful NFL coach" but that's like me calling myself one heckuva Shortstop. Was I? Yes, but that was 24 years ago. He constantly has the now patented "who farted?" look to him and just can't seem to adapt the game-plan once the inevitable opposition adjustments come into play. The TO thing drives me nuts as well! Did the zebras take their sweet time spotting the ball on that 4th and 1? Yep. However, 31 seconds remained on the playclock once everything got straightened out. MORE THAN ENOUGH time to get something in from the sidelines. We NEVER have a full allotment of TO's heading into crunchtime. NEVER.

I almost didn't jump on the forum today as I am so sick to my stomach over this disaster of a season. I used to enjoy watching us play even if we lost but now it feels like more of a labor of love. My wife told me last night "I hate when your Packers play of late." Me too, babe. Me too.

 

[Mondio]

This actually hits on what IMO is the crux of the problem. The talent level in Green Bay really isn't THAT bad, however, its up to the coaches to not only keep the players heads in the game, but its up to the coaches to make adjustments during the game. I don't see either of those things happening. Now I am not going to sound ignorant and say that the coaches aren't making adjustments, but whatever they are or aren't doing, they seem to be getting out coached every step of the way most of the time.

What if it's the game plan and scheme that allows them to start strong and then the talent gap finally comes to call by the end? Sometimes you have to just line up and beat someone because guessing with scheme only works so many times before it just comes down to blocking and tackling with some passes and catches thrown in. When it counted, we couldn't get 4 inches. That should tell fans something.

 

[shockerx]

yesterday i watched phillip Rivers go 25 for 25 setting NFL record for completions. Rivers had some really bad years 2-3 seasons ago. now he has a OL. Yesterday against the cardinals. He took what the defense gave him, lots of check downs and short stuff designed to get YAC. He took his shots also, his WR corps is unreal... very talented. Rodgers can regain his greatness but like rivers he needs help OL and another top end WR. and a coach to pound into his head....take what D gives you.

 

[Mondio]

yesterday i watched phillip Rivers go 25 for 25 setting NFL record for completions. Rivers had some really bad years 2-3 seasons ago. now he has a OL. Yesterday against the cardinals. He took what the defense gave him, lots of check downs and short stuff designed to get YAC. He took his shots also, his WR corps is unreal... very talented. Rodgers can regain his greatness but like rivers he needs help OL and another top end WR. and a coach to pound into his head....take what D gives you.

that's just it, he took Favre when he was chucking up INT every other pass and made him accountable and great again. Regardless of PFF rankings or ratings or whatever, this offensive line isn't that good outside of LT and center. LG is ok, but IMO BOTH guards could be improved upon greatly. Healthy BG is ok at RT, but that seems to be a rarity these days. outside of Adams, pretty much every pass catcher is new to Rodgers this year and he couldn't practice with them for over half of his season so far. Those things matter too.

 

[shockerx]

the play where Rodgers threw short to StBrown....take a look at it. Rodgers is back peddling big time...way more than what is needed, the flight of his ball also back peddles away from brown. simple play but really look at it. Rodgers feet are a mess. he for the millionth time does not trust this OL.

 

[Mondio]

the play where Rodgers threw short to StBrown....take a look at it. Rodgers is back peddling big time...way more than what is needed, the flight of his ball also back peddles away from brown. simple play but really look at it. Rodgers feet are a mess. he for the millionth time does not trust this OL.

that's definitely part of it

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What if it's the game plan and scheme that allows them to start strong and then the talent gap finally comes to call by the end? Sometimes you have to just line up and beat someone because guessing with scheme only works so many times before it just comes down to blocking and tackling with some passes and catches thrown in. When it counted, we couldn't get 4 inches. That should tell fans something.

That appears to be the problem with MM, he may go into a game with a winning formula, but as soon as there is an injury or the other team makes adjustments he seems to freeze up and not know how to adapt. Yes, you have to execute plays to be successful, but as the HC, you need to know when to adjust, when to make the right decisions, etc. Decisions that have to be made quickly and decisively and MM doesn't seem to possess that trait. The play last night on 4th and inches is a good example of MM thinking. Tied game (14-14) and halfway into the 3rd quarter, why do you take that chance of going for it in your own territory? Not to mention a run up the middle of a stacked Viking defense when your starting guards are out? Was this MM making a good decision based on the situation or was it MM saying to himself "I need to prove to the fans I'm not conservative like the last game when I chose to punt?" Guess what Mike, the situations were completely different and both times, you chose wrong with bad outcomes to boot. I couldn't have been the only fan in both situations saying loudly "WTF is he doing?" If memory serves me correct, he even took a timeout before the play? I could be wrong on that.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It's not going to fix it. There are so many plays out there to be made that aren't. Go ahead and get new coaches, but it's like thinking a new wife will make you happier, in the end, most times you're just divorced again and just as miserable. MM and AR are both good enough to make this better and the best option is they figure it out before it's too late.

MM has underperformed for YEARS with this team and it's obvious that he's lost the team. Rodgers, even as "bad" as some seem to portray him lately, is still one of the best 5 QBs in the NFL. A great coach can take the talent the Packers have on offense and turn it into an offense that scares the rest of the NFL; MM takes the talent on offense and scores fewer points during the season than the Ravens.

 

[Mondio]

and earlier in the year we were a better 2nd half team after adjustments. Don't ask me to make sense of it other than everyone has played their part in a small way to look like we have really big problems.

 

[Mondio]

MM has underperformed for YEARS with this team and it's obvious that he's lost the team. Rodgers, even as "bad" as some seem to portray him lately, is still one of the best 5 QBs in the NFL. A great coach can take the talent the Packers have on offense and turn it into an offense that scares the rest of the NFL; MM takes the talent on offense and scores fewer points during the season than the Ravens.

hard to score points when you overthrow a wide open Receiver in the endzone on 3rd down isn't it?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

and earlier in the year we were a better 2nd half team after adjustments. Don't ask me to make sense of it other than everyone has played their part in a small way to look like we have really big problems.

right, but you can't fire 53 guys and with Rodgers new contract, he really can't be traded, so how do you correct things?

When you have a large group of people all making mistakes or under performing, you naturally have to look at who is in charge of this group? I'm not trying to absolve AR, the OL, Graham, WR's, Special Teams, the OLB's, the secondary, etc of their mistakes or poor play, but the buck stops somewhere and in this case I think that lands squarely on the head coach and any other coach who's groups have under performed.

 

[brandon2348]

The whole thing is a huge mess and it goes all the way back to Mr. Ted Thompson. With him letting the wrong guys go and overpaying most of the ones we keep it just hasn't worked. Throw in his failed drafts the last several years and we just don't have the correct talent in place to make it work. Other then Gutes one draft and a few free agents this is Ted Thompson's roster and it sucks. We just dont have the guys to win 1 on 1 with MM's man beater routes that have taken way to long to develop. With that said it's time to move on from MM too. I've defended him to a degree but you can't help but notice how stale this whole operation has gotten.

Our only chance is Gute can get the roster right with his second offseason. Gonna have some good positions in the draft and $ to sign help as well. I want Gute to completely tear apart this roster and add too what he has drafted.

 

[Puppydog31]

If anything positive came out of this years packers is...we showed the nfl that Green Bay can punt the ball better than most teams!

 

[Puppydog31]

When Rodgers was drafted in 2005 he was the 24th pick. The first QB drafted that year was Alex smith drafted by the 49ers. Mike mc Carthy was the 49ers quarterback coach......do you think there may be some tension between Rodgers and mc Carthy?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

When Rodgers was drafted in 2005 he was the 24th pick. The first QB drafted that year was Alex smith drafted by the 49ers. Mike mc Carthy was the 49ers quarterback coach......do you think there may be some tension between Rodgers and mc Carthy?

13 1/2 years later and a lot of Championship level play during that time, I doubt it. I am pretty certain when Rodgers gives his acceptance speech in Canton some day, he will be sure to mention both TT and MM as being an instrumental part of his successful path in the NFL. Just like any long term relationship you are going to disagree along the way, whether MM and AR have had enough of those disagreements to make them incompatible at this time, probably only they can answer that.