Official GB vs Viks studs n duds

[Mondio]

right, but you can't fire 53 guys and with Rodgers new contract, he really can't be traded, so how do you correct things?

When you have a large group of people all making mistakes or under performing, you naturally have to look at who is in charge of this group? I'm not trying to absolve AR, the OL, Graham, WR's, Special Teams, the OLB's, the secondary, etc of their mistakes or poor play, but the buck stops somewhere and in this case I think that lands squarely on the head coach and any other coach who's groups have under performed.

You correct it by continuing to work. I know MM isn't afraid of it, and neither is Rodgers. I don't think there are many on this team that aren't in it for each other or afraid to put in the work. You can change the coach, it might work. it could all just drastically change over night. But more likely it will be a new system, new terminology, new everything and there will be a learning curve. Maybe it's a 6 month curve, maybe it's a 2 season curve. What if this is just a riff between QB and coach and there is a new riff with the new coach. changing coaches isn't going to fix a QB that doesn't want to stick to the plan unless it's his plan and No team is going to win a qb running his own agenda. Not enough to matter.

I don't care what coach is here, what players, what play is called or when, if you're not protecting the QB and you're overthrowing easy TD's and you can't run for 4 inches when you have to, you're not winning. The only way out of this is to get better. To do the things to correct your little part to this big problem. Sometimes things just get tough and you have to get thru them. Any coach could have called any play and if you can't capitalize on a wide open receiver in the endzone against a darn good defense on the road in a must win game, it won't matter if you change the coach and the play call.

We need a few better players at certain positions. Our young guys needed experience. our Oline has to get better thru new guys. Our QB needs to re-visit footwork and make sure he's healthy.

It's not that everyone is just sucking, it's that someone is picking bad times to have very poor moments of play. You can say it's the coach, it just might be. That's for the Front office to decide. But maybe it is all that other stuff going on from everything to the quality of some players to begin with, injuries to other important ones and a lot of youth to the team. all that stuff matters. and if it is that, you don't just move on from a good coach. if you think it's the environment that MM has created that is leading to all of this, then you replace him.

BUT, it takes a season or less for most defenses and teams to "catch up" to everything that's "new" and "innovative" in this league. Any new coach better have more than a bag of new tricks because that isn't going too last long.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

This actually hits on what IMO is the crux of the problem. The talent level in Green Bay really isn't THAT bad, however, its up to the coaches to not only keep the players heads in the game, but its up to the coaches to make adjustments during the game. I don't see either of those things happening. Now I am not going to sound ignorant and say that the coaches aren't making adjustments, but whatever they are or aren't doing, they seem to be getting out coached every step of the way most of the time.

Funny you should say that. MM said the same thing in his PC on Monday.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Even more people divorce the 2nd time around than the first and it jumps up to almost 3/4 of them end in divorce when they try and do it a 3rd time. There will always be trouble, strife, hard times etc. Right now we do have a good coach. and we have a good QB. Something is off and they'll figure it out. If you believe it's all MM and a "stale scheme" I don't think you've really been paying attention. He's not perfect, never has been and he's certainly coached up some stinkers at times. But all in all, he's pretty much as good as any coach not BB in New England. Even half the people here that are ready to have him gone now will concede that he'd most likely have a lot of success even in Cleveland.

This team has sustained for a long time, and been thru a lot of adversity over the years to show he's a good coach.

I don't need to go into the QB, everyone thinks he's God. Myself I think he's just a really good QB with flaws like everyone else. I've put a lot on him these past few weeks, mostly because nobody ever seems to think he fails the team, but it's never been more obvious than it is right now, that it works both ways. But when you watch these games, there are plays to be made and we're not making them. If it's a coaching thing, I believe MM will figure it out. I'm not convinced it's all coaching, at times yes, but missing an easy 2nd and 2 and then overthrowing Adams for the 2 or 3rd time in the game and at least 1 for an easy TD is not on the coach and scheme.

There are other parts too, all new pass catchers basically, half a season where the QB couldnt' practice with them, oline injury penalties, etc have all played their parts in this. It's NOT one thing. Both the coach and the QB are good enough to figure out and be successful. I'm confident that BOTH will work hard at doing it.

If any of this speculation that the QB has quit on the coach, which I don't believe at all, then we have much bigger problems than the coach. But when you have people really good at what they do, sometimes doing what it takes to figure it out is best in the long run. Or keep thinking it's not me, it's you and look for change. Those people are always looking for change. yeah, marriage and divorce might be an odd analogy, but even more marriages end in divorce the 2nd time around. it happens for 2 reasons. 2 good people decide it's too hard to work at it or what is so often, they think they'll find something better and they do, until they realize it was worse than before. Those people are never happy for long and it's the majority.

Interesting. Some of it I agree with. I don't think anyone has given up. Those with the theory that Rodgers wants out are just way off IMO.

I agree that there is more than one factor going on and when that happens it seems to snowball.

One thing that occured to me last night is that Rodgers must really be missing Jordy. Jordy was his security blanket. His go to guy. Now I'm not trying to hi-jack the thread, but the one thing that may be missing with the offense is Jordy. Especially with Cobb and Allison being out....or maybe it just missing his WR's. He certainly isn't on the same page with who he has now.

 

[Mondio]

Interesting. Some of it I agree with. I don't think anyone has given up. Those with the theory that Rodgers wants out are just way off IMO.

I agree that there is more than one factor going on and when that happens it seems to snowball.

One thing that occured to me last night is that Rodgers must really be missing Jordy. Jordy was his security blanket. His go to guy. Now I'm not trying to hi-jack the thread, but the one thing that may be missing with the offense is Jordy. Especially with Cobb and Allison being out....or maybe it just missing his WR's. He certainly isn't on the same page with who he has now.

He is missing those types of guys. He has Adams, that's it. and Adams, Jordy, Cobb, Jones, Jennings, Driver all took 2-3 seasons before they became what we remember them being. Allison looked good to start the season, but was injured early and gone, Cobb was good for a game, then not, then gone.

Him and Graham haven't really become what we thought, and I don't need Graham with 10 catches a game, but that big one down the middle last game? he NEEDS to catch those. I see lesser TE's make that catch. Neither of the new WR's have gotten to that level with rodgers yet, not even close. They look like they have the goods to work with as a WR, but it just takes time and experience to get there. Looked like he was working with EQ and starting something up, and then he got nicked up last game and was out for a while. Saw him on one route and it looked like he couldn't even hit his gear, hamstring injury go figure. He did come back in the game, but was fairly quiet after that.

I've been saying it for a few weeks, he doesn't trust the experience of the guys to attack the part of the field this offense used to so regularly attack. Those are always going to be more dangerous throws and the only thing that is going to open that back up is for QB and WR to get on the same page however that has to happen and it doesn't matter who's calling the plays.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

hard to score points when you overthrow a wide open Receiver in the endzone on 3rd down isn't it?

Yeah, that ONE throw is the difference between MM being great and below-average. That small sample of throws is really what we're all basing our analysis on, right?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Funny you should say that. MM said the same thing in his PC on Monday.

I assure you.....I am not Mike McCarthy and I didn't hear his Press Conference yesterday. So he admitted that the coaches weren't making good enough adjustments during the course of the game?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Even more people divorce the 2nd time around than the first and it jumps up to almost 3/4 of them end in divorce when they try and do it a 3rd time. There will always be trouble, strife, hard times etc. Right now we do have a good coach. and we have a good QB. Something is off and they'll figure it out. If you believe it's all MM and a "stale scheme" I don't think you've really been paying attention. He's not perfect, never has been and he's certainly coached up some stinkers at times. But all in all, he's pretty much as good as any coach not BB in New England. Even half the people here that are ready to have him gone now will concede that he'd most likely have a lot of success even in Cleveland.

This team has sustained for a long time, and been thru a lot of adversity over the years to show he's a good coach.

I don't need to go into the QB, everyone thinks he's God. Myself I think he's just a really good QB with flaws like everyone else..

First, MM was good when he had great talent and a QB school that the CBA allowed. He has not adapted to the new NFL and, without Jordy and an overwhelming pass-blocking oline, his offense is not elite any longer.

As for Rodgers, he's been off; nobody is arguing that he's the same player he was five years ago. That's the problem though, unless Rodgers can be the best QB in NFL history for every game, then MM's offense doesn't work...that might be a problem. If you really think that coaching isn't the issue, then I would point to the awful time management year-after-year, the fact that he apparently can't communicate with his QB, and inability to develop anything resembling an NFL quality backup QB.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

What if it's the game plan and scheme that allows them to start strong and then the talent gap finally comes to call by the end? Sometimes you have to just line up and beat someone because guessing with scheme only works so many times before it just comes down to blocking and tackling with some passes and catches thrown in. When it counted, we couldn't get 4 inches. That should tell fans something.

"Just line up and beat someone" is giving the coach a free pass for not having a scheme that helps players succeed. ANYBODY can draw up a "line up and beat someone" play, great coaches have other things they draw up.

 

[Puppydog31]

Well if mc Carthy got away from the buffet table and had his team practice that play it might have been a touchdown..or how about this..practice a play that will get you 1 yard on 4th down..or maybe tell his special teams coach to teach Tyrone Williams to get his fat head out of the way on a punt..this team keeps beating themselves week after week and a lot of that has to do with preparation and halftime adjustments..

 

[Mondio]

First, MM was good when he had great talent and a QB school that the CBA allowed. He has not adapted to the new NFL and, without Jordy and an overwhelming pass-blocking oline, his offense is not elite any longer.

As for Rodgers, he's been off; nobody is arguing that he's the same player he was five years ago. That's the problem though, unless Rodgers can be the best QB in NFL history for every game, then MM's offense doesn't work...that might be a problem. If you really think that coaching isn't the issue, then I would point to the awful time management year-after-year, the fact that he apparently can't communicate with his QB, and inability to develop anything resembling an NFL quality backup QB.

it's a ******** excuse. Nobody is asking him to be perfect and yes i'm bringing up the last 2 passes from that game again. Go back and watch them, you're telling me only Aaron Rodgers at peak performance makes those passes? I'm sorry, Fitzpatrick makes those passes every week, multiple times a game. Never has it been easier to play QB in this league and Rodgers is missing guys and not throwing to others and everyone wants to blame scheme. Maybe they think it will magically fix Rodgers? if he can't hit a wide open TD, it doesn't matter the play call, and it's a problem. Most of his throws look like crap this year. Even when he can set, he doesn't and it's a problem.

If you think "awful" time management is only an issue in GB, I implore you to watch a few other games. LOL. The saints had to burn 2 timeouts and had a delay and almost had another delay coming out of timeout for running the play clock down. They scored 50 some points so nobody talks about it LOL. Every Viking game i've watched this year had gaffs on their end, but everyone thinks it's just the Packers and much if it is our QB and what he likes to do. A new coach is just going to come in and make him do it right? LOL

 

[Mondio]

"Just line up and beat someone" is giving the coach a free pass for not having a scheme that helps players succeed. ANYBODY can draw up a "line up and beat someone" play, great coaches have other things they draw up.

and when a guy is wide open, he should have drawn it up better huh? LOL and yes if you only need 4 inches, you should be able to line up and beat someone.

 

[Mondio]

Well if mc Carthy got away from the buffet table and had his team practice that play it might have been a touchdown..or how about this..practice a play that will get you 1 yard on 4th down..or maybe tell his special teams coach to teach Tyrone Williams to get his fat head out of the way on a punt..this team keeps beating themselves week after week and a lot of that has to do with preparation and halftime adjustments..

did you just join to sit and talk stupid all day? Fat jokes have gone the way of the "yo momma" jokes and were funny in 1994. If you have nothing else to add maybe you've run your course of usefulness to the board?

 

[Mondio]

Yeah, that ONE throw is the difference between MM being great and below-average. That small sample of throws is really what we're all basing our analysis on, right?

yes, just that one throw. It's the only one all year that has been off and the throw before was the only one in a big situation for a needed first down that he threw in the dirt for what would have been an easy moving of the chains. Those are the only 2 passes and times Rodgers has been off all year...

 

[Puppydog31]

noones saying Rodgers is a bad QB. ...they are not executing plays. And they are not finishing games...execution comes from practice and finishing games comes from halftime adjustments.....coaching

 

[SoonerPack]

The whole thing is a huge mess and it goes all the way back to Mr. Ted Thompson. With him letting the wrong guys go and overpaying most of the ones we keep it just hasn't worked. Throw in his failed drafts the last several years and we just don't have the correct talent in place to make it work. Other then Gutes one draft and a few free agents this is Ted Thompson's roster and it sucks. We just dont have the guys to win 1 on 1 with MM's man beater routes that have taken way to long to develop. With that said it's time to move on from MM too. I've defended him to a degree but you can't help but notice how stale this whole operation has gotten.

Our only chance is Gute can get the roster right with his second offseason. Gonna have some good positions in the draft and $ to sign help as well. I want Gute to completely tear apart this roster and add too what he has drafted.

I know I shouldn't but I keep imagining our secondary with Micah and Casey back there and man what a different D we would have with those 2 ballhawks. Uncle Ted did a good job for the most part but really spiraled the last 4-5 years and we are now paying the price for him staying on as long as he did. Same goes for Mike, IMO. He had a nice run but there has been a consistent pattern of underachieving since the SB run and I think it would be best for all parties if we made a clean break and went out separate ways. I don't hate Mike. I don't think he is a garbage coach. I just believe with all my heart it's time for a new voice at the helm. I actually think Mike could do some really good things with a different team but your comment on how the whole operation has gotten a bit stale is right on the money. Change can be a good thing and in this instance I think it would do everyone some good. AR can still be the best in the league and I have no doubt a new coach with a new vision would energize him and get him back to playing the type of all-time ball we've grown to expect week in week out. It was a nice run and we've been beyond blessed to have had 4 and 12 manning the ship for all these years. We have a few more runs in us with 12 but I can't envision a scenario where MM is involved in said run. We'll see... G P G

 

[Puppydog31]

I know I shouldn't but I keep imagining our secondary with Micah and Casey back there and man what a different D we would have with those 2 ballhawks. Uncle Ted did a good job for the most part but really spiraled the last 4-5 years and we are now paying the price for him staying on as long as he did. Same goes for Mike, IMO. He had a nice run but there has been a consistent pattern of underachieving since the SB run and I think it would be best for all parties if we made a clean break and went out separate ways. I don't hate Mike. I don't think he is a garbage coach. I just believe with all my heart it's time for a new voice at the helm. I actually think Mike could do some really good things with a different team but your comment on how the whole operation has gotten a bit stale is right on the money. Change can be a good thing and in this instance I think it would do everyone some good. AR can still be the best in the league and I have no doubt a new coach with a new vision would energize him and get him back to playing the type of all-time ball we've grown to expect week in week out. It was a nice run and we've been beyond blessed to have had 4 and 12 manning the ship for all these years. We have a few more runs in us with 12 but I can't envision a scenario where MM is involved in said run. We'll see... G P G

Well said...

 

[bigboypasses]

Both Rodgers and Mccarthy haven't been the same since the NFC Championship loss @ Seattle. That will end up being a defining moment for the decline of both of them. IMO Mccarthy should have been fired the next day for how he handled the play calling in that game.

 

[Un4GivN]

execution comes from practice and finishing games comes from halftime adjustments.....coaching

Not airmailing Adams by 5 yards for a free TD
Not throwing the ball into the ground on 4th and 3rd downs in consecutive weeks
Not ignoring your check down for a first down and instead taking a sack going for a big play

Fans have listened to pundits talk about Rodgers being the greatest of all time, most gifted QB ever, makes throws no one else can... They couldn't possibly fathom the fact that the Packers are struggling because of the GOAT. The best man to ever tie laces. Truth is they are... Ill attach an link to an SI article https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/26/green-bay-packers-offense-problems-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers that talks about the subject some.

I think Rodgers is suffering from a combination of things
1. He missed nearly an entire year due injury
2. The Packers deem him too valuable to play in the preseason. So he comes into every season behind on chemistry. Literally happens every year, and now it was even worse due to problem 1.
3. New wide receivers
4. His attitude
a. Rodger is very lone wolfish at times. Feels above reproach even to coaches. Goes sour **** to a levelt hat rivals Jay Cutler at times. There are multiple quotes from New England talking about Belechick yelling at Brady, and telling him to get his @!#! together, I don't think that happens in GB. No one dares question the GOAT.

 

[PackerDNA]

I'm wondering some things. Although it hasn't really been brought up as a factor, is 13 screws and a plate in his shoulder having any effect? Something I'm seeing more and more and articles the last couple of days and that I've been watching myself recently, has been Rodgers footwork. Very un like him.
Rex Ryan was asked yesterday what's wrong with Rogers in the Packers. He said the number one problem? He has no weapons to work with outside of Adams.

 

[AmishMafia]

Not airmailing Adams by 5 yards for a free TD
Not throwing the ball into the ground on 4th and 3rd downs in consecutive weeks
Not ignoring your check down for a first down and instead taking a sack going for a big play

Fans have listened to pundits talk about Rodgers being the greatest of all time, most gifted QB ever, makes throws no one else can... They couldn't possibly fathom the fact that the Packers are struggling because of the GOAT. The best man to ever tie laces. Truth is they are... Ill attach an link to an SI article https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/26/green-bay-packers-offense-problems-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers that talks about the subject some.

I think Rodgers is suffering from a combination of things
1. He missed nearly an entire year due injury
2. The Packers deem him too valuable to play in the preseason. So he comes into every season behind on chemistry. Literally happens every year, and now it was even worse due to problem 1.
3. New wide receivers
4. His attitude
a. Rodger is very lone wolfish at times. Feels above reproach even to coaches sour **** that rivals that of Jay Cutler at times. There are multiple quotes from New England talking about Belechick yelling at Brady, and telling him to get his @!#! together, I don't think that happens in GB. No one dares question the GOAT.

Well done.

For many fans AR is also above reproach.

 

[Puppydog31]

it seems that most of us agree that MM is done in Green Bay but now what? How do we get a O line to protect AAron?How do we get a secondary who can cover or tackle? How do we get a pass rusher? Mathews might be done..how do we replace him? Cobb is more than likely done. Graham is probably done. Baktiari and Bulaga can’t stay healthy..and please don’t tell me that we draft offensive linemen..if Rodgers has a rookie OLine he might be done also..

 

[Mondio]

I'm wondering some things. Although it hasn't really been brought up as a factor, is 13 screws and a plate in his shoulder having any effect? Something I'm seeing more and more and articles the last couple of days and that I've been watching myself recently, has been Rodgers footwork. Very un like him.
Rex Ryan was asked yesterday what's wrong with Rogers in the Packers. He said the number one problem? He has no weapons to work with outside of Adams.

It's all of it, though I don't the shoulder is that big of a deal. Foot work and his knee injury is where the majority of it lays right now in errant passes. some of the footwork might be from not trusting the oline, trying to avoid hits, etc. He has weapons, but those weapons are not performing or not on the same page. Outside of Adams, nobody is on the same page in this offense. And Graham isn't this giant ************ target with a giant catch radius on the field like people thought he'd be. It's little things that look like great big things all together.

 

[Snoops]

I'm wondering some things. Although it hasn't really been brought up as a factor, is 13 screws and a plate in his shoulder having any effect? Something I'm seeing more and more and articles the last couple of days and that I've been watching myself recently, has been Rodgers footwork. Very un like him.
Rex Ryan was asked yesterday what's wrong with Rogers in the Packers. He said the number one problem? He has no weapons to work with outside of Adams.

I want Rex Ryan as our next coach

 

[shockerx]

it seems that most of us agree that MM is done in Green Bay but now what? How do we get a O line to protect AAron?How do we get a secondary who can cover or tackle? How do we get a pass rusher? Mathews might be done..how do we replace him? Cobb is more than likely done. Graham is probably done. Baktiari and Bulaga can’t stay healthy..and please don’t tell me that we draft offensive linemen..if Rodgers has a rookie OLine he might be done also..

ill tell you we need to draft OL...free agency is okay too. But we need a couple of guards, interior pressure is causing Rodgers skiddishness...happy feet. I early OL guard can be an up grade day one over what we have. The OL in the root to the troubles on offense. PS Bulaga needs to stay one more year...to help transition to new OL players.

 

[C-Lee]

Not airmailing Adams by 5 yards for a free TD
Not throwing the ball into the ground on 4th and 3rd downs in consecutive weeks
Not ignoring your check down for a first down and instead taking a sack going for a big play

Fans have listened to pundits talk about Rodgers being the greatest of all time, most gifted QB ever, makes throws no one else can... They couldn't possibly fathom the fact that the Packers are struggling because of the GOAT. The best man to ever tie laces. Truth is they are... Ill attach an link to an SI article https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/26/green-bay-packers-offense-problems-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers that talks about the subject some.

I think Rodgers is suffering from a combination of things
1. He missed nearly an entire year due injury
2. The Packers deem him too valuable to play in the preseason. So he comes into every season behind on chemistry. Literally happens every year, and now it was even worse due to problem 1.
3. New wide receivers
4. His attitude
a. Rodger is very lone wolfish at times. Feels above reproach even to coaches. Goes sour **** to a levelt hat rivals Jay Cutler at times. There are multiple quotes from New England talking about Belechick yelling at Brady, and telling him to get his @!#! together, I don't think that happens in GB. No one dares question the GOAT.

Welcome back man. Wish it was under better circumstances.