Lions studs and duds

[Mondio]

The DL makes a shift to their right after Tonyan goes in motion. Rodgers immediately glances over at Lazard and calls "Chill Alaska! Chill Alaska!" That's an audible and it ran Lazard right into the teeth of their defense.

If you look at the defensive alignment, after the shift they had their tackles lined up over our guards with nobody over the center and their linebackers were 3.5 yards off the LOS. If Rodgers had instead audibled to a QB sneak (or maybe that's what MLF actually called?), it would have been a pretty easy first down.

But don't take my word for it go back and watch the play for yourself. You'll see the motion, the shift, the resulting defensive alignment, and the audible. You'll also see the push our OL got up the middle that confirms the likelihood that a sneak would have been successful.

or it was just word salad. and motion means nothing, they do it all the time especially when they're giving the appearance of going for it but are merely trying to get someone to jump. I was actually surprised they actually snapped it.
over and kill are about the only 2 phrases that have consistently meant they switch from play called to other play called in reserve in the huddle. If I had to bet, Chill Alaska were just words.

 

[thequick12]

Okay, but that works both ways. Tonyan made a fantastic catch on a poorly thrown ball that could easily have been another INT and Watson also made a fantastic catch on a poorly thrown ball. It's not just his completions. It's the quality of his completions. He doesn't hit his receivers in stride on crossing routes that often anymore, forcing his receivers to make adjustments and limiting their ability to pick up extra yards. The very best pass on a crossing route we saw all season, BAR NONE, was the one from Love to Watson a few weeks ago. It's an accuracy issue and it's pretty much been that way since he broke his collarbone in 2017. I don't think you can objectively say his accuracy has ever been the same since.

Hes been scared since Anthony Barr slamed him in Minnesota. I agree with that I also agree that he doesn't seem to encorage the same tyoe of yac plays as he used to. The same thing happened with Favre. And when Rodgers came in you could see the difference. In breaking routes were going to the end zone again. Interestingly you notice Love came in and almost immediately an in breaking route went to the end zone

But he is unquestionably still a top 5 Nfl qb. You only move on from that when and if youre absolutely certain the next guy is gonna be just as good or better for the next 10 to 15 years

 

[BrokenArrow]

or it was just word salad. and motion means nothing, they do it all the time especially when they're giving the appearance of going for it but are merely trying to get someone to jump. I was actually surprised they actually snapped it.
over and kill are about the only 2 phrases that have consistently meant they switch from play called to other play called in reserve in the huddle. If I had to bet, Chill Alaska were just words.

And I would gladly take that bet. Just google "packers chill alaska" and you'll find the consensus from all different kinds of sources.

 

[BrokenArrow]

But he is unquestionably still a top 5 Nfl qb. You only move on from that when and if youre absolutely certain the next guy is gonna be just as good or better for the next 10 to 15 years

Or you do it when decision time is nigh on the next QB. Look, you want a guy who learned from your current HOF QB if you can. Love is that guy and there won't be another one. And it IS questionable whether he is still a top 5 QB. You like the phrases "unquestionably", "beyond debate", and "without question" because perhaps in your eyes that's the case, but none of this is beyond debate.

Wouldn't you expect a top 5 QB to be in the Pro Bowl? Or maybe rank in the top 5 in some statistical category, or make the playoffs, or deliver clutch throws, or have at least one 300 yard game, or do something on the season that stands out? Here's a list just off the top of my head that I would rather have than Rodgers this point: Hurts, Mahomes, Burrow, Cousins, Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Murray. And you could make strong arguments for Tua, Goff, Smith and Lawrence.

Rodgers is 39 years old. Most QBs hit the wall in their late 30s with few exceptions. If you're expecting him to re-gain that top 5 form, you're gambling with the future to find out. For me, it's a gamble I wouldn't take at his age.

 

[Mondio]

And I would gladly take that bet. Just google "packers chill alaska" and you'll find the consensus from all different kinds of sources.

i've seen how accurate a "consensus" from the experts and peanut galleries a like are.
anyway, whoever called it, it was a bad call. Would never argue any differently. Especially after they shifted on D, make no audible just sneak it yourself.

 

[Mondio]

Hurts, Mahomes, Burrow, Cousins, Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Murray. And you could make strong arguments for Tua, Goff, Smith and Lawrence.

are you serious with some of these? Hurts can run, and is already hurt. Half his passes are worse than Rodgers, he just has 2 receivers that go up and get everything. Last game I think he had one in between at least 3 maybe 4 guys. He's been doing it all year.
I'd love to see what Hurts, Cousins, Jackson, Murry, Tua, Goff, and Smith would have done with this Oline and weapons. It's almost laughable to think about it.

 

[swhitset]

i've seen how accurate a "consensus" from the experts and peanut galleries a like are.
anyway, whoever called it, it was a bad call. Would never argue any differently. Especially after they shifted on D, make no audible just sneak it yourself.

Or Just Punt the dang ball when you are in your opponent’s field goal range. Especially when your defense has been playing well and giving up 3 free points is likely going to be very significant.

 

[Mondio]

Or Just Punt the dang ball when you are in your opponent’s field goal range. Especially when your defense has been playing well and giving up 3 free points is likely going to be very significant.

I thought they were and the talking and shifting was all for show, then they snapped it and was in disbelief. Then they handed it to a laterally moving Lazard when we needed a half yard and I was dumbfounded.

Thought punting was the right call from the start.

 

[Jayzee1981]

Hes been scared since Anthony Barr slamed him in Minnesota. I agree with that I also agree that he doesn't seem to encorage the same tyoe of yac plays as he used to. The same thing happened with Favre. And when Rodgers came in you could see the difference. In breaking routes were going to the end zone again. Interestingly you notice Love came in and almost immediately an in breaking route went to the end zone

But he is unquestionably still a top 5 Nfl qb. You only move on from that when and if youre absolutely certain the next guy is gonna be just as good or better for the next 10 to 15 years

That may be true in theory but there’s also variables that can hinder that like insane contracts, cap hits and stubborn, self centered and egotistical players and coaches and GMs

 

[BrokenArrow]

i've seen how accurate a "consensus" from the experts and peanut galleries a like are.
anyway, whoever called it, it was a bad call. Would never argue any differently. Especially after they shifted on D, make no audible just sneak it yourself.

Yeah, he didn't even need to necessarily tell anyone he was doing it. Starr didn't.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I'd love to see what Hurts, Cousins, Jackson, Murry, Tua, Goff, and Smith would have done with this Oline and weapons. It's almost laughable to think about it.

This isn't about his weapons. It's about him. It's about his poor decisions, his refusal to throw the ball away and opting to take sacks the majority of the time, his inaccurate throws, his poor leadership and his declining physical tools. If you don't see it, I guess I can't help you. Most of us can and do.

 

[Arod2gjdd]

The bar has plummeted lol if you are satisfied with his performance in the past three home elimination games in which we were favored, then there is no world in which we will ever see eye to eye.

Im ok with that but just know that one of us is seeing reality and the other is not.

There's no debate here. Did Rodgers have the best game of his career in those 3 games? Absolutely not. Did he preform well enough to win if the rest of the team had pulled their weight? Absolutely he did.

For example, In 2 of those 3 one score losses the other Aaron fumbled inside the red zone as the Packers were headed for important points. Is that Rodgers fault too?

If you're expecting the qb to be able to overcome and make up for everyone else's mistakes as well as his own every game youre just not being realistic. There's never been a qb that good in the NFL and there never will be

This is an interaction I do not have the time nor the patience for. The higher leverage, the greater magnitude, the more chips on the table, the worse Rodgers played. There is an inverse relationship between the significance of the moment and his performance, and this has been true for several years. You can dispense with your stats, I watch every snap and trust my eyes and my heart. His performance has cratered.

FYI you come across as incredibly arrogant, conceited, and obtuse. Peace and love.

 

[Mondio]

and you come across incredibly arrogant, immature, and hyperbolic. We can all play this game.

and I would disagree on the bigger the moment the worse his play. He's elevated at time and played plenty well many others. it just so happens that when he hasn't played super man, we've lost, and those stand out to people. People act as if Brady, Mahomes, Brees, etc don't have teams that have overcome less than stellar QB play at times or haven't won plenty of games by just being good enough.

If you want to make an argument he didn't play well enough in our last game for the money he's being paid, i'm right there with you, but when you make your typical hyperbolic "his performance has cratered" it's kind of hard to think you can actually have a serious conversation with youngsters who obviously have no experience to draw from or understanding and appreciation of the situations another might find themselves in.

 

[PackerDNA]

How many times over the years in the playoffs has Rodgers been Superman and it didn't matter because the defense failed? How many times do they give up over 35 points a game? How many times did Rogers lead them back to tie the game or take the lead only to watch the defense blow it and he never get on the field again? All great quarterbacks have had clunkers in the playoffs or big games.

 

[OldSchool101]

Even Tom Brady with the narrative that he takes less to help the team, is getting fckn paid

@thequick12

but Brady does make less. What has been his contract average salary over the last 3 seasons?

 

[OldSchool101]

How many times over the years in the playoffs has Rodgers been Superman and it didn't matter because the defense failed? How many times do they give up over 35 points a game? How many times did Rogers lead them back to tie the game or take the lead only to watch the defense blow it and he never get on the field again? All great quarterbacks have had clunkers in the playoffs or big games.

That part of the story is True. But not all QB make league high $$. That’s my problem. You want the $$, you better perform like it. He’s not anywhere close to it.

 

[thequick12]

Or you do it when decision time is nigh on the next QB. Look, you want a guy who learned from your current HOF QB if you can. Love is that guy and there won't be another one. And it IS questionable whether he is still a top 5 QB. You like the phrases "unquestionably", "beyond debate", and "without question" because perhaps in your eyes that's the case, but none of this is beyond debate.

Wouldn't you expect a top 5 QB to be in the Pro Bowl? Or maybe rank in the top 5 in some statistical category, or make the playoffs, or deliver clutch throws, or have at least one 300 yard game, or do something on the season that stands out? Here's a list just off the top of my head that I would rather have than Rodgers this point: Hurts, Mahomes, Burrow, Cousins, Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Murray. And you could make strong arguments for Tua, Goff, Smith and Lawrence.

Rodgers is 39 years old. Most QBs hit the wall in their late 30s with few exceptions. If you're expecting him to re-gain that top 5 form, you're gambling with the future to find out. For me, it's a gamble I wouldn't take at his age.

Ok you cant bring age into the top 5 qb discussion for any particular season. I get Rodgers is 39 and only has a few years left. Herbert is 20 something and has 10/15 years left.

That comes into the discussion when you boot Favre for Rodgers or Rodgers for Love, Absolutely. And I 100% agree about the kearning from the Fhof. Im a stauch believer that Rodgers does not become a Fhof player with out that priceless time spent learning behind Favre.

Thats why I qualified my statement with the premise that...if Love demands to start or be traded, I'd have a very tough choice and I might have to trade Rodgers. But I'd trade him to the Vikings for 3 first rounders not to the Jets for a single 2nd round pick

 

[Schultz]

Im ok with that but just know that one of us is seeing reality and the other is not.

There's no debate here. Did Rodgers have the best game of his career in those 3 games? Absolutely not. Did he preform well enough to win if the rest of the team had pulled their weight? Absolutely he did.

For example, In 2 of those 3 one score losses the other Aaron fumbled inside the red zone as the Packers were headed for important points. Is that Rodgers fault too?

If you're expecting the qb to be able to overcome and make up for everyone else's mistakes as well as his own every game youre just not being realistic. There's never been a qb that good in the NFL and there never will be

I agree that AR is getting too much blame. I only ask when defending him people be accurate. No doubt the 2 AJ fumbles you reference were killers. It's just that the one against TB the Pack were not in the red zone. That fumble gave TB the ball in the red zone and led to a quick 7.

 

[Mondio]

@thequick12

but Brady does make less. What has been his contract average salary over the last 3 seasons?

and if we take Rodgers average over the last 3 seasons when he's at the end of this contract like Brady is, he's going to look damn cheap compared to what the best guys who just sign a deal are going to be getting.

 

[thequick12]

I agree that AR is getting too much blame. I only ask when defending him people be accurate. No doubt the 2 AJ fumbles you reference were killers. It's just that the one against TB the Pack were not in the red zone. That fumble gave TB the ball in the red zone and led to a quick 7.

Ah thats right knew they both in red zone, mixed that up. Still, so basically the same thing I said, both of his fumbles cost the Packers points

 

[LambeauLombardi]

Wasnt just your theory..I think they ( packers) had to answer all sort of questions about him.

He had one earlier in season, think Flynn played vs Pats

Rodgers denies 3rd concussion, defends Cutler

Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers is aware that Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler is having his toughness questioned this week. And Rodgers says the criticism of Cutler is "very inappropriate" and "disrespectful."

www.espn.com

"First, Rodgers says he didn't sustain a concussion on a helmet-to-helmet hit from Chicago Bears lineman Julius Peppers in Sunday's NFC championship game victory. He believes his new helmet may have helped prevent another head injury."

I forgot about that Peppers hit. I was actually thinking his TD run at the goal line pile on in the 1st qtr would have been the reason for concussion.

 

[longtimefan]

I forgot about that Peppers hit. I was actually thinking his TD run at the goal line pile on in the 1st qtr would have been the reason for concussion.

Yup because after that play he seemed to be not the same?

 

[LambeauLombardi]

Yup because after that play he seemed to be not the same?

I didn't see anything in terms facial expressions from him to make me feel that way, it's just those last 3 quarters is by far was the worst he played in that 6 game stretch. Especially after carving the Bears up the first 2 drives. My theory is 100% based on performance.

 

[longtimefan]

I realize that some people like to blame everything on Rodgers but can we at least pretend that the offensive line having perhaps their worst game of the season impacted some things? That Jones deciding to cough the ball up impacted the offense in a negative fashion? That numerous dropped passes might have also been a net negative?

Was Rodgers good during this game? Maybe if he had been 20 of 27 for 250 yards and two TDs, no interceptions we'd be looking at it differently; but AJ Dillon blew an easy block and the pressure up the middle affected Rodger's pass to Watson, turns into an INT. Doubs, Dillon, and Lazard all dropped passes that shut down drives and lead to punts. When the Packers had an oline that was playing well and the best receiver in the league, the offense could withstand the occasional mishap. Playing with an oline that was playing like a JV squad and some odd playcalls (who calls a jet sweep for Lazard?!) I'm not sure how any rational person could point to the loss and blame just one person.

So online play affects the qb ? And the online you talk about here was way better then week 2 to now

week 1 healthy jones, healthy line and won easy

ever since nada . But all because love accuracy is bad

 

[milani]

I forgot about that Peppers hit. I was actually thinking his TD run at the goal line pile on in the 1st qtr would have been the reason for concussion.

That year he got one in Detroit at the end of the first half. The other one I believe was in Washington in OT. And of course he suffered one years later against Detroit.