Improving the Defense for 2017....How and Who?

[easyk83]

I'm not really here to argue about Gunter's fit in the slot, but if you're interested: Eric Decker, Mohamed Sanu, Jordan Matthews, Anquan Boldin, Julio Jones, A.J. Green, and Alshon Jeffery (among others) are all bigger receivers who spend a lot of time in the slot. Marques Colston was the classic example of the big slot, and he's now been replaced in that role by Michael Thomas. It's become quite common for big receivers to play inside.

Slow physical but heady players can be effective in the slot, there's a reason that old shutdown corners often wind up playing Nickel corner towards the end of their careers.

 

[Dantés]

Slow physical but heady players can be effective in the slot, there's a reason that old shutdown corners often wind up playing Nickel corner towards the end of their careers.

It should also be mentioned that being a nickel, while it often means the slot, doesn't always. Technically, a nickel is just a 3rd corner. On occasion, a nickel will come in and push a starter to the slot because that's the most effective mix. Chris Harris Jr. is a starter, but he plays the slot when they're in nickel and Roby plays the outside as a 3rd corner. Leon Hall was a slot covering starter for years in Cincinnati.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Let me dream!

I hear ya and I feel ya. I think it's "critical" (I don't use that word lightly in this situation) that the Packers sign or trade for a proven #1 CB before the 2017 season starts. If they think that the current group and maybe a #29 pick in this years draft can fill that role, I think that is a HUGE dice roll.

 

[PackAttack12]

I hear ya and I feel ya. I think it's "critical" (I don't use that word lightly in this situation) that the Packers sign or trade for a proven #1 CB before the 2017 season starts. If they think that the current group and maybe a #29 pick in this years draft can fill that role, I think that is a HUGE dice roll.

Hopefully Rodgers' comment in the postgame presser about "all in" will resonate.

 

[mradtke66]

It should also be mentioned that being a nickel, while it often means the slot, doesn't always. Technically, a nickel is just a 3rd corner. On occasion, a nickel will come in and push a starter to the slot because that's the most effective mix. Chris Harris Jr. is a starter, but he plays the slot when they're in nickel and Roby plays the outside as a 3rd corner. Leon Hall was a slot covering starter for years in Cincinnati.

That's literally exactly what we did with young Tramon and Shields. Tramon comes off the bench, Woodson slides to the slot. Ditto when same became the no. 3.

 

[rodell330]

Hopefully Rodgers' comment in the postgame presser about "all in" will resonate.

To Teddy that means he needs to try and get the best Un drafted free agents and practice squad players He can get hahaha.

 

[pacmaniac]

Hopefully Rodgers' comment in the postgame presser about "all in" will resonate.

I thought it was too vague. "All in" how? Every week during the losing streak, all they talked about was preparation and execution. Maybe TT thinks AR meant they need to be "all in" with their weekly prep/execution.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I thought it was too vague. "All in" how? Every week during the losing streak, all they talked about was preparation and execution. Maybe TT thinks AR meant they need to be "all in" with their weekly prep/execution.

I will have to listen to it again, but sure seemed like AR was talking about personnel and the importance of winning home field advantage. I believe resigning Cook was also in his "speech".

 

[PackAttack12]

I thought it was too vague. "All in" how? Every week during the losing streak, all they talked about was preparation and execution. Maybe TT thinks AR meant they need to be "all in" with their weekly prep/execution.

I fully expect there to be a conversation behind closed doors, just incase Teddy is confused.

 

[Mondio]

i don't think it was as big of shot at Ted as everyone wants to make it, must like his statement when they switched from Clements back to MM for playcalling that it had nothing to do with play calls. Like he was dissing Mike and sticking up for his buddy clements. Or at least that was the narrative Bill Michaels kept trying to push. I thought he was simply saying what I've thought all along. The play calls were the same, but they weren't executing them. and with this he was talking about players on the team and youth and he was also talking about how important HFA is during the playoffs and playing in 3 NFCCG's all on the road is tough. and dropping games you syhouldn't during the regular season is what put them on the road. I think it was a shot at everyone. Prepare like you're supposed to.

 

[easyk83]

IMHO a big part of the offensive outburst this season came from Aaron's increasing comfort with different route trees. We started seeing less spread iso concepts and more rubs intersecting routes and stack sets, defenses weren't able to jam our guys up and down the line anymore.

 

[Pkrjones]

Technically, a nickel is just a 3rd corner. On occasion, a nickel will come in and push a starter to the slot because that's the most effective mix.

So thus completes the circular argument that we do NOT want Gunter as the nickel CB. He's too slow to play on the outside and not quick enough to hang with the smaller/quicker "Beasleys" in the slot. TE coverage guy in dime might be his only shot at making the roster?

 

[Dantés]

So thus completes the circular argument that we do NOT want Gunter as the nickel CB. He's too slow to play on the outside and not quick enough to hang with the smaller/quicker "Beasleys" in the slot. TE coverage guy in dime might be his only shot at making the roster?

Gunter has had some really productive games covering wide receivers. I think too much has been made of his struggles against the elites of the NFL. There's a big space full of possibilities for usefulness between "He should not be asked to cover Julio Jones and Dez Bryant one on one" and "Cut him."

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Drop Sheilds and drop Starks. I would love to have shields back, but the concussion watch dogs thought it would be better to end his $12mil dollar a year career that he loves, for safety purposes... So that he DOESNT commit suicide... Sort of ironic if you ask me.

Gunter isn't a #1 CB. Obviously... He was our #4 CB to start the year. How do you people judge him when he is forced to play Dez and Julio on an island? lol Gunter did have a couple games where he shut down good WRs earlier if I remember right. That's how he earned the #1CB job. But it was a reach for sure... But say Hyde gets an offer for 6, 7, 8 mil? I say we could let Hyde walk, and allow Gunter to play that tweener role. I think he would do well in that spot... Then invest heavily in the CB position. Big FA, and a couple high picks, at least. Fix it now.

We need to keep Perry. He is our best pass rusher, and at a position of need. We cant be letting all our 1st round picks walk... That said, I think Jones is a keeper............ Easy to disagree with that comment, I know. But I have seen flashes. He was a project player when we drafted him. Why would we give up after 4 years of building the project? Similar to Bahk, and Perry. But in Datones case, he hasn't shown what Bahk/Perry shown... Datone would be a great core guy to get the 3-4mil a year range like Guion gets. If we get him for that, I think he will break out in the next 3-4 years, and pay off nicely...

Lacy is a keeper. Im sick of listening to the haters. Saying he was fat, and lazy, and got hurt because he was fat.... ?Seriously? The guy has always been a bowling ball. He was averaging 5.1ypc this year when he got hurt... And if that isn't irony.... Some people want Monty to be our every down back... Not saying he doesn't have the ability. Im guessing he just recently hit 100 career carries. But he was taken out last year on a run. And he was hurt this year running it as well. I seen him get pulled 3 times because of injury since his breakout game. Most recently in the NFC championship game... Any of you consider this is a position that takes a beating, and extra weight could be an asset? I do. I also think we need 2 or even 3 RBs that could start. 2016 is a perfect example of why... I say we keep Lacy. Keep the spin move. Keep the guy who is 260, and still runs like he is 235...Play his strengths, and quit trying to make him something he isn't... He is a beast! Accept it... Embrace it...lol

Cook needs a forever home... I say we keep him. He is a loyal old dog...

I hope Lang gives us a 1 year prove it deal. Either that or a long term, Packer cap friendly deal, that allows him to finish his career here blocking for AR.
Tretter is good, but him and Lindsley both are starter quality centers...
Overall, we need some help on the Oline. Some good quality depth is a must!

We need more beef up front. Vince Wilfork is still capabe of producing on a part time basis. Don't think it was by chance that Clowney had his breakout season without Watt opposite him. Wilfork played over 600 snaps, and anchored a defense that carried their team to the playoffs. He is mulling retirement, because he doesn't want to give 600 more snaps to give Brock Osweiler another shot at sucking... For GB, in a part time role... I think he could be very valuable to our defese... despite age.

We need a better Dline. End of story. We need a dline so good that we have to play 3 guys besides a couple OLBs... With our two safetys, and the above mentioned additions to our CB corps. With the Ryan and Thomas IMO showing great promise against the pass. I think we could rush 5, and cover with 6... If we can get 5 studs to rush, we will get our pressure back that we are missing... Wilfork/Guion at NT. Daniels/Clark. And though I like Lowry, Price, and Ringo. We need impact players up front... That's where it all begins. Daniels and Guion carried us this year. Get them some damn help! Bring the beef, and quit schemeing ways around it.

 

[easyk83]

While I see your point, ask yourself what do the Packers need in 2017 to get them to the Super Bowl? What did they lack to get there this year?

I see a team that is/was a couple of solid starters on defense short of being that team. While competition and development is a good thing, I would trade away three of those kinds of guys for one solid starter. This is what we saw TT do last year in the draft when he traded to move up and grab Spriggs. He viewed Spriggs as a guy who could eventually be a solid starter in exchange for some depth or camp bodies.....whether he was successful or not, is still unknown.

The trouble is that we're so depleted at CB that not only do we need to make an early draft selection of one a priority but we also need to grab another one probably in the middle rounds. Besides we could use some more depth on our O and D-lines, need to keep the developmental pipelines stocked at those groups. Oh and we could use another ILB too. Of course it's a different game if we can pick up a decent CB in FA this year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The trouble is that we're so depleted at CB that not only do we need to make an early draft selection of one a priority but we also need to grab another one probably in the middle rounds. Besides we could use some more depth on our O and D-lines, need to keep the developmental pipelines stocked at those groups. Oh and we could use another ILB too. Of course it's a different game if we can pick up a decent CB in FA this year.

Didn't we basically already try that in 2015 with Randall (#30) and Rollins (#62) ?

I hate to keep beating this drum, but the Packers need a #1 CB on opening day. If they think they are going to find one on the current roster or through the draft, I'm holding my breath.

 

[Dantés]

Lacy's YPC was 5.1, but Montgomery's was 5.9, he's cheap, and he seems to care more about football than food. It's an easy call, imo, to let someone else hand Lacy a bunch of money and just draft a RB to pair with Montgomery. It's cheaper, Lacy could net the team a comp pick, and you're likely getting a more reliable running attack.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Lacy's YPC was 5.1, but Montgomery's was 5.9, he's cheap, and he seems to care more about football than food. It's an easy call, imo, to let someone else hand Lacy a bunch of money and just draft a RB to pair with Montgomery. It's cheaper, Lacy could net the team a comp pick, and you're likely getting a more reliable running attack.

Spot on.

THAT my friend may just be exactly why Lacy won't be back in GB, we know how much TT covets picks. Whether he will be around or not to benefit from such a pick, is yet to be seen.

Edit: Obviously, a comp pick wouldn't be THE deciding factor, but might be something that tips the scales. I don't think Lacy is back in GB unless its low money with incentives.

 

[rodell330]

That's literally exactly what we did with young Tramon and Shields. Tramon comes off the bench, Woodson slides to the slot. Ditto when same became the no. 3.

Woodson had great anticipation and superior ball skills...even when his foot speed declined he had above average instincts when it came to jumping or undercutting routes. Again, Gunter Will NEVER be a slot corner so please stop inputting that ideal. With Williams and Shileds they had speed And quickness and ball skills. Again Gunter would never work out in the slot. In case you guys may have missed it? Capers never put him in the slot. Everyone seems to be over looking the reasons why smh.

 

[Dantés]

Woodson had great anticipation and superior ball skills...even when his foot speed declined he had above average instincts when it came to jumping or undercutting routes. Again, Gunter Will NEVER be a slot corner so please stop inputting that ideal. With Williams and Shileds they had speed And quickness and ball skills. Again Gunter would never work out in the slot. In case you guys may have missed it? Capers never put him in the slot. Everyone seems to be over looking the reasons why smh.

I didn't mean to make you S your H. I was just pointing out that bigger receiver do play in the slot quite a bit nowadays and that being a "nickel" doesn't necessarily mean playing in the slot.

 

[thisisnate]

Lacy's comp pick would likely be a 5th or 6th rounder. Not all that juicy. But yeah, Ted like's his picks. I just don't think that will really factor much into the decision. They either want him back for a # or they don't. A 5th or 6th round comp pick isn't going to tip the balance.

Woodson had great anticipation and superior ball skills...even when his foot speed declined he had above average instincts when it came to jumping or undercutting routes. Again, Gunter Will NEVER be a slot corner so please stop inputting that ideal. With Williams and Shileds they had speed And quickness and ball skills. Again Gunter would never work out in the slot. In case you guys may have missed it? Capers never put him in the slot. Everyone seems to be over looking the reasons why smh.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure it was you who were suggesting we play Janis at cornerback. Sometimes, people suggest things that just don't make any sense.

 

[Dantés]

Lacy's comp pick would likely be a 5th or 6th rounder. Not all that juicy. But yeah, Ted like's his picks. I just don't think that will really factor much into the decision. They either want him back for a # or they don't. A 5th or 6th round comp pick isn't going to tip the balance.

I think it's the type of thing that organizations like the Packers and Ravens think about, but yeah it is probably one of the more minor considerations. And it is for me personally as well. Really, I don't want to pay Lacy because I don't trust him to stay in shape and remain healthy/effective. It was a hit and miss proposition under his rookie deal. Under a second, more lucrative contract, I think it's even less likely that he would take his fitness seriously. A "prove it deal" is an option if he doesn't get better offers elsewhere, but he was effectively in a "prove it year" in 2016 and still came in overweight.

 

[easyk83]

Didn't we basically already try that in 2015 with Randall (#30) and Rollins (#62) ?

I hate to keep beating this drum, but the Packers need a #1 CB on opening day. If they think they are going to find one on the current roster or through the draft, I'm holding my breath.

But that's the problem isn't it. If you trade up and select a CB at say 15-20 what if he busts or sucks? Now youve failed to address a weakness and you've left other positions under stocked. I think we should count on some found money this offseason either from Rollins or Randall but not both becoming serviceable corners. Pick a good prospect at the bottom of the first or early second rounds at corner and then hedge your bets with a flyer in rounds 4-5.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But that's the problem isn't it. If you trade up and select a CB at say 15-20 what if he busts or sucks? Now youve failed to address a weakness and you've left other positions under stocked. I think we should count on some found money this offseason either from Rollins or Randall but not both becoming serviceable corners. Pick a good prospect at the bottom of the first or early second rounds at corner and then hedge your bets with a flyer in rounds 4-5.

Who is your opening day starter at the #1 CB position using that scenario?

 

[easyk83]

Who is your opening day starter at the #1 CB position using that scenario?

Honestly unless we can pick up a decent number 1 CB in FA then I don't see us as truly having a number 1 cornerback. I could see a healthy and humbled Randall go back to being a solid number 2 and perhaps we could get a solid number 2 in the draft, maybe Tre'davious White although he's really climbing in the draft with his Senior Bowl practices.