Free Agency Thread

[Heyjoe4]

13 straight games, preferably includes all playoff and SB games.

The problem(s) with lingering injuries like he has had, aren't just the missed games. It's a bunch of things.

- Missed Practices
- Availability unknown
- Roster spot
- coming back too soon
- playing, but not 100%

Throw in the fact that he and Love are just beginning to develop chemistry, which takes time at practice and in games.

At least with an ACL, broken bone, cracked ribs, etc. there is some known healing time and usually you come back when you are 100%. Soft tissue injuries like Watson's can be a lingering cloud over a person, especially an athlete, waiting to spring up at anytime. So until he can play at 100%, with few, if any hammy issues, it's always going to plague his NFL career.

The other problem with soft-tissue injuries like the hamstrings is build up of scar tissue over time. Scar tissue usually develops post-op in people who don't do proper rehab. But it can also build up with frequent micro-tears in soft tissue. Scar tissue can't be stretched and it develops quickly, perversely making the next injury all the more likely.

It's not all doom and gloom. NFL athletes have access to v good Drs, trainers, and therapists - and the latest medical and training techniques. Watson is young and I'm sure his body mechanics are also being analyzed. All the best to him, and the Packers!

 

[PikeBadger]

When Gluten traded those picks to get Watson he was desperate. All the worthwhile WRs were gone in round 1 and Watson wasn't gonna last until 53. If Gluten hadn't ignored the WR position for so long, he wouldn't have been in that bind.

And for that we got a guy who can't stay on the field. (And when he took Watson, he was also pacifying Rodgers and the fan base and the sports writers. And to be fair he had not been in a good position to take a WR the year earlier. But he took no WRs either that year. Zero.)

Well all is forgiven after the last two drafts. The WR room is doing quite well, with or without Watson, ironically.

This might be the largest pile of cr ap I've ever seen posted here.
Pacifying the fan base........... sheez, reading this garbage makes me want to puke.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Scar tissue usually develops post-op in people who don't do proper rehab.

Right, but has Watson had any surgeries on his hamstrings? I only see that he had minor surgery on a knee.

Date	Injury	Game Missed	Details
10/01/2017	Knee	0	Right knee meniscus repair
11/20/2021	Hamstring	3	Strained hamstring
06/15/2022	Knee	0	Minor knee surgery (right)
09/18/2022	Hamstring	1	Right hamstring strain
10/09/2022	Hamstring	2	Right hamstring strain re-injury
10/30/2022	Concussion	0	Traumatic brain injury
12/25/2022	Hip	0	Likely hip flexor or hip pointer
08/31/2023	Hamstring	3	Hamstring strain
10/22/2023	Knee	0	Mild right knee sprain
11/05/2023	Back	0	Back injury. No details
11/05/2023	Chest	0	Chest injury. No details
12/03/2023	Hamstring	5	R hamstring strain. New or reinjury?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A vet out there that I would be possibly interested in is Patrick Peterson. Yeah, he will be 34 in July, but might be a guy that can really bring the Packers secondary together. He can pretty much play anywhere (CB or S) on the field. While I wouldn't give him the $7M/year that Pittsburgh gave him on his last contract, but a smaller deal might assure the Packers of strengthening both the CB and S depth with 1 signing. Possibly another Charles Woodson like signing?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Right, but has Watson had any surgeries on his hamstrings? I only see that he had minor surgery on a knee.

Date	Injury	Game Missed	Details
10/01/2017	Knee	0	Right knee meniscus repair
11/20/2021	Hamstring	3	Strained hamstring
06/15/2022	Knee	0	Minor knee surgery (right)
09/18/2022	Hamstring	1	Right hamstring strain
10/09/2022	Hamstring	2	Right hamstring strain re-injury
10/30/2022	Concussion	0	Traumatic brain injury
12/25/2022	Hip	0	Likely hip flexor or hip pointer
08/31/2023	Hamstring	3	Hamstring strain
10/22/2023	Knee	0	Mild right knee sprain
11/05/2023	Back	0	Back injury. No details
11/05/2023	Chest	0	Chest injury. No details
12/03/2023	Hamstring	5	R hamstring strain. New or reinjury?

I mentioned that scar tissue can develop from micro-tears in soft tissue injuries as well, like hamstring injuries. There are 5 instances on your chart, in 21, 22, and 23. Would like that pattern to stop in 24.

 

[Heyjoe4]

This might be the largest pile of cr ap I've ever seen posted here.
Pacifying the fan base........... sheez, reading this garbage makes me want to puke.

Mission accomplished.

 

[Poppa San]

The other problem with soft-tissue injuries like the hamstrings is build up of scar tissue over time. Scar tissue usually develops post-op in people who don't do proper rehab. But it can also build up with frequent micro-tears in soft tissue. Scar tissue can't be stretched and it develops quickly, perversely making the next injury all the more likely.

It's not all doom and gloom. NFL athletes have access to v good Drs, trainers, and therapists - and the latest medical and training techniques. Watson is young and I'm sure his body mechanics are also being analyzed. All the best to him, and the Packers!

I saw headline about a deep massage under anesthesia to bust up the scar tissue. Didn't read the article to see what it was about.

 

[Thirteen Below]

I saw headline about a deep massage under anesthesia to bust up the scar tissue. Didn't read the article to see what it was about.

I had that done on my quadricep, many years ago. In my case, it was quite painful. Varies depending on the depth and extent of the inury. Basically, what you do is just rip the muscle back and forth like you're kneading bread dough, literally tearing apart the scar tissue. I had to do it daily for many weeks, and I went through a ton of darvon and percocet.

 

[gopkrs]

I had that done on my quadricep, many years ago. In my case, it was quite painful. Varies depending on the depth and extent of the inury. Basically, what you do is just rip the muscle back and forth like you're kneading bread dough, literally tearing apart the scar tissue. I had to do it daily for many weeks, and I went through a ton of darvon and percocet.

Xrays should have shown if that was a problem. and if so asap. Did yours get back to normal?

 

[Thirteen Below]

Xrays should have shown if that was a problem. and if so asap. Did yours get back to normal?

Almost completely, yes, but it took years altogether.

My left front upper leg was crushed by a falling backhoe on a construcytion site, fom just below the hip joint to just above the knee. It was basically hamburger, as the orthopedist described it. The first month or so they didn't expect tp save it, but when it started to become clear I was probably going to keep the leg, it became apparent that as the quad healed, it was almost solid scar tissue. It was like I had a 1x6 plank in my leg; if I pushed down on one edge, the other edge would rise up. Very strange thing to see.

They said the only way I'd be able to use the leg again would be if I tore up the scar tissue before it took over the whole muscle. Otherwise the scar tissue would twist and distort, my leg would be misaligned, and there wouldn't be any way to fix it later. Had to be done in real time, while scar tissue was forming, and I had to do it myself every night for as long as I could stand it.

You can still see something "off" about the front of my leg when I'm wearing shorts, because the quad didn't turn out quite right. Doctors spot it immediately, but most people don't notice. All in all, it turmed out far, far better than they expected. It was a couple of years before I could walk normally, and maybe a few more before the limp disappeared, but I was riding my bicycle recreationally by the following spring because a stationary bike was my physical therapy. I spent every free hour on some sort of bike, and the 2nd year, I took up bycile racing. Raced for years, road racing and mountain bikes. Within a few years, I was playing basketball again, and eventually even hockey - although it was probably over 15 years before I could stand any contact with the quad, and still can't take too much of a blow.

I'm 66 now, and still play hockey and basketball competitively in the over-50 age range, and hike hundreds of miles a year. I still notice nerve damage and circulatory problems, but as long as I excercise the hell out of it on a regular basis, it stays pretty healthy.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I saw headline about a deep massage under anesthesia to bust up the scar tissue. Didn't read the article to see what it was about.

Yeah I read about that too while I was rehabbing from knee replacement. Scar tissue is much more common after surgery, as Poker noted, but it can occur with repetitive soft tissue strains and tears as well. I would not be surprised if Watson has had that procedure.

Deep, deep tissue massage under anesthesia is certainly done to break up scar tissue (the other option is surgery). I guess that would be one painful massage if awake. Poker's chart also shows that Watson has been sidelined 5 times for hamstring problems in 21, 22, and 23. Even if scar tissue isn't a problem, that's a troubling pattern.

With his speed and acceleration, the muscles on the back of Watson's legs are really powerful and of the "fast twitch" variety, common to sprinters. Once a muscle strains, the surrounding muscle shortens to protect the strain, and that hurts. That's a spasm and we've probably all had it, mostly in the lower back, at one time. It's no fun, especially when the first course of treatment is ice.

Same thing happened to Jones in the first Bears' game last year. These guys have legs that are too strong for their own good. But how do you tell these guys to slow down? There just isn't much that can be done to avoid re-injury, other than a lot of stretching and massage - which I'm sure they all do. Anyway, very frustrating.

 

[gopkrs]

Almost completely, yes, but it took years altogether.

My left front upper leg was crushed by a falling backhoe on a construcytion site, fom just below the hip joint to just above the knee. It was basically hamburger, as the orthopedist described it. The first month or so they didn't expect tp save it, but when it started to become clear I was probably going to keep the leg, it became apparent that as the quad healed, it was almost solid scar tissue. It was like I had a 1x6 plank in my leg; if I pushed down on one edge, the other edge would rise up. Very strange thing to see.

They said the only way I'd be able to use the leg again would be if I tore up the scar tissue before it took over the whole muscle. Otherwise the scar tissue would twist and distort, my leg would be misaligned, and there wouldn't be any way to fix it later. Had to be done in real time, while scar tissue was forming, and I had to do it myself every night for as long as I could stand it.

Tough road to ***. Congrats on seeing it through. I truly doubt Watson has anything like that with scar tissue.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Almost completely, yes, but it took years altogether.

My left front upper leg was crushed by a falling backhoe on a construcytion site, fom just below the hip joint to just above the knee. It was basically hamburger, as the orthopedist described it. The first month or so they didn't expect tp save it, but when it started to become clear I was probably going to keep the leg, it became apparent that as the quad healed, it was almost solid scar tissue. It was like I had a 1x6 plank in my leg; if I pushed down on one edge, the other edge would rise up. Very strange thing to see.

They said the only way I'd be able to use the leg again would be if I tore up the scar tissue before it took over the whole muscle. Otherwise the scar tissue would twist and distort, my leg would be misaligned, and there wouldn't be any way to fix it later. Had to be done in real time, while scar tissue was forming, and I had to do it myself every night for as long as I could stand it.

You can still see something "off" about the front of my leg when I'm wearing shorts, because the quad didn't turn out quite right. Doctors spot it immediately, but most people don't notice. All in all, it turmed out far, far better than they expected. It was a couple of years before I could walk normally, and maybe a few more before the limp disappeared, but I was riding my bicycle recreationally by the following spring because a stationary bike was my physical therapy. I spent every free hour on some sort of bike, and the 2nd year, I took up bycile racing. Raced for years, road racing and mountain bikes. Within a few years, I was playing basketball again, and eventually even hockey - although it was probably over 15 years before I could stand any contact with the quad, and still can't take too much of a blow.

I'm 66 now, and still play hockey and basketball competitively in the over-50 age range, and hike hundreds of miles a year. I still notice nerve damage and circulatory problems, but as long as I excercise the hell out of it on a regular basis, it stays pretty healthy.

Damn 31 that’s amazing. Good for you.

 

[mradtke66]

You would think, but the Trade chart is only a "guide" and not a "must follow". One just has to refer back to the Christian Watson trade up in 2022 that I mentioned. In just picking a random Draft Value Trade Chart, the Packers used 2 picks, which the chart says are worth a total of 680 points for a pick that the chart has valued at 560 points. So either Gute doesn't use the charts or he so desperately wanted Watson, that he was willing to get fleeced by his North Division rivals to get him.

I wouldn't say he got fleeced, but certainly the Vikes raised the price because they are within the same division.

 

[sschind]

In a trade the team initiating it usually gives up points. If Gute calls another GM to trade up that other GM might want more than an even trade. Plus, given the way points are assigned it rare that someone doesn't give up something. Its rarely even points wise.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I wouldn't say he got fleeced, but certainly the Vikes raised the price because they are within the same division.

While "fleeced" was too strong of a word for me to use, I still think Gute overpaid to move up in the second round. Add in the fact that he did it with the Vikings and its a double whammy for me.

I'll say it again, give me as many top 100 pick darts as possible, I'm not trading them away to move up in the same round. The only exception might be to combine a late 3rd round pick (85-100), with a 2nd or 1st to move up to grab a guy that you REALLY value.

 

[PikeBadger]

While "fleeced" was too strong of a word for me to use, I still think Gute overpaid to move up in the second round. Add in the fact that he did it with the Vikings and its a double whammy for me.

I'll say it again, give me as many top 100 pick darts as possible, I'm not trading them away to move up in the same round. The only exception might be to combine a late 3rd round pick (85-100), with a 2nd or 1st to move up to grab a guy that you REALLY value.

Like Christian Watson?

 

[mradtke66]

While "fleeced" was too strong of a word for me to use, I still think Gute overpaid to move up in the second round. Add in the fact that he did it with the Vikings and its a double whammy for me.

I think it is the same issue. The Vikes raised the price because of the inter division penalty.

I'll say it again, give me as many top 100 pick darts as possible, I'm not trading them away to move up in the same round. The only exception might be to combine a late 3rd round pick (85-100), with a 2nd or 1st to move up to grab a guy that you REALLY value.

I generally agree with you that more picks are more valuable, but what is the difference between moving up the 1st vs. any other round? Particularly if Watson was "that guy" ? What if they had a mid 1st round grade on him?

 

[Heyjoe4]

While "fleeced" was too strong of a word for me to use, I still think Gute overpaid to move up in the second round. Add in the fact that he did it with the Vikings and its a double whammy for me.

I'll say it again, give me as many top 100 pick darts as possible, I'm not trading them away to move up in the same round. The only exception might be to combine a late 3rd round pick (85-100), with a 2nd or 1st to move up to grab a guy that you REALLY value.

Seems like there was a lot of pressure on Gluten to get a WR, and I think the most pressure was coming from Rodgers. Some of it was his own fault. I don't remember the year, but he selected zero WRs. It might have been the year he took Love in rd 1 and Dillon in rd 2. Not sure.

Ironically, Watson's injury history is making him look like a pretty weak pick, but there was no way to know that at the time. Gluten has drafted so well for WRs and TEs in the last two years that Watson may be left behind (unless he figures out a way to stay on the field). Clock is ticking.

 

[El Guapo]

Date	Injury	Game Missed	Details
10/01/2017	Knee	0	Right knee meniscus repair
11/20/2021	Hamstring	3	Strained hamstring
06/15/2022	Knee	0	Minor knee surgery (right)
09/18/2022	Hamstring	1	Right hamstring strain
10/09/2022	Hamstring	2	Right hamstring strain re-injury
10/30/2022	Concussion	0	Traumatic brain injury
12/25/2022	Hip	0	Likely hip flexor or hip pointer
08/31/2023	Hamstring	3	Hamstring strain
10/22/2023	Knee	0	Mild right knee sprain
11/05/2023	Back	0	Back injury. No details
11/05/2023	Chest	0	Chest injury. No details
12/03/2023	Hamstring	5	R hamstring strain. New or reinjury?

One interesting thing to notice is that all of leg his issues are on the right side. Three right knee injuries and then lots of hamstring issues on that side. Obviously he and the staff know this and are working on it, but I wasn't really cognizant of it until now. I was mostly focused on the hamstrings but now understand that it could be related to compensating for the knee injuries. It could also be that he drinks Pepsi instead of Coke or skim instead of 2% milk. The key is for them to identify the source and come up with a solution plan.

 

[El Guapo]

Almost completely, yes, but it took years altogether.

You've got more fortitude than most people. Congrats and keep it up.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One interesting thing to notice is that all of leg his issues are on the right side. Three right knee injuries and then lots of hamstring issues on that side. Obviously he and the staff know this and are working on it, but I wasn't really cognizant of it until now. I was mostly focused on the hamstrings but now understand that it could be related to compensating for the knee injuries. It could also be that he drinks Pepsi instead of Coke or skim instead of 2% milk. The key is for them to identify the source and come up with a solution plan.

You nailed it! He needs to come over to the left side!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like Christian Watson?

That was the guy/pick that we were talking about, yes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interesting. A lot (20) former Packers are currently on UFL Teams.

20 former Packers playing in UFL in 2024

The Green Bay Packers are well represented by former players in the new UFL, which began play for the 2024 season this past weekend.

packerswire.usatoday.com

 

[Half Empty]

I don't remember the year, but he selected zero WRs.

3 in '18, none in '19 or '20, 1 in '21 (although it was Amari, so maybe call it none), 3 in '22 and '23