Free Agency Thread

[gopkrs]

Back about 20 years ago we drafted Ahmad Carroll, a highly touted CB with physical skills at Arkansas I believe. One of the big issues he had coming into the NFL was the illegal contact rule after 5 yards which was not part of the college game at the time. He was a no. 1 pick.

Wasn't it illegal contact with a niece?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Then there was also "Chump Change Buckley". Ron Wolf and the Packers used the 5th pick of the 1992 draft on the guy. Less than 3 years later the Packers traded Buckley to Miami for "past considerations." Buckley went on to have a pretty decent career elsewhere, but man he was a mistake for Wolf and the Packers.

https://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/202039891.html

You're talking about T-Buck, Terrell Buckley aka "The Vaccinator" cause he was gonna give you a shot. I didn't realize that was a Ron Wolf pick. 5 overall. Ouch. Well, at least T-Buck was ahead of his time on the importance of vaccinations, err, shots.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If they don't make a move in the 1st, and stay pat, I think they will move up in the 2nd from 41

That's an interesting take DoU. Do you think they'd have anyone in mind? That's a tough question because who knows how the draft falls. But if there is someone who they like who makes it through the first round, yeah they have the draft capital to do it, and why not?

 

[Pkrjones]

Wasn't it illegal contact with a niece?

Are you thinking about 1987 Mossy Cade sexually assaulting his aunt? That was 37 years ago, before 1/3 of the active forum members were born.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

Wasn't it illegal contact with a niece?

I believe you are thinking of Mossy Cade.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If they don't make a move in the 1st, and stay pat, I think they will move up in the 2nd from 41

I just hope they don't repeat 2022 and trade both 2nd round picks to move up in round 2. While I still have hope that Watson can stay healthy and be a solid WR, I still think that was a steep price (picks 53 and 59) to move up to 34. Doing it with the Vikings made it even less palatable for me.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Are you thinking about 1987 Mossy Cade sexually assaulting his aunt? That was 37 years ago, before 1/3 of the active forum members were born.

Leave it to the Vikings to poach him, fresh out of prison.

Mossy Cade: The most sordid of all Packers

Mossy Cade was one of the baddest of the bad Packers in the team's history.

lombardiave.com

 

[DoURant]

The 2nd and 3rd rds are deep with talent, and they can get a player they really want that most likely won't be there at 41. I think getting the #1LB on their board, would be the target, or a player who was expected to go in the 1st at ED, OL or DL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The 2nd and 3rd rds are deep with talent, and they can get a player they really want that most likely won't be there at 41. I think getting the #1LB on their board, would be the target, or a player who was expected to go in the 1st at ED, OL or DL

Which is why I don't want to see Gute give up any of those 4 picks (for fewer) that he has in rounds 2 and 3. For me, the more Top 100 Bullets that you have in Rounds 1-3, the more likely you are going to get impact players.

If the board is still flush with players that the Packers covet when they are on the clock at 25, I would be just fine with Gute trading out of Round 1 with Carolina and picking up their #33 and #65 picks in the process.

 

[DoURant]

I just hope they don't repeat 2022 and trade both 2nd round picks to move up in round 2. While I still have hope that Watson can stay healthy and be a solid WR, I still think that was a steep price (picks 53 and 59) to move up to 34. Doing it with the Vikings made it even less palatable for me.

41 and our 4th would get us to 36, and 41 and one of our 3rds, through the trade chart, could get us back into the 1st.

 

[gopkrs]

I believe you are thinking of Mossy Cade.

Yes, you are right. And it was a **** of his aunt.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

41 and our 4th would get us to 36, and 41 and one of our 3rds, through the trade chart, could get us back into the 1st.

You would think, but the Trade chart is only a "guide" and not a "must follow". One just has to refer back to the Christian Watson trade up in 2022 that I mentioned. In just picking a random Draft Value Trade Chart, the Packers used 2 picks, which the chart says are worth a total of 680 points for a pick that the chart has valued at 560 points. So either Gute doesn't use the charts or he so desperately wanted Watson, that he was willing to get fleeced by his North Division rivals to get him.

If you go by the chart alone, Gute should have been able to move up to pick #27 with those 2 second round picks. In Gute's "Defense", his next pick was #92 in the 3rd round, which is only valued at 132, so maybe nobody else wanted to trade with him so he could move up and get Watson. Which made him willing to do the unthinkable and let the Vikings take advantage of his desire for Watson.

 

[DoURant]

You would think, but the Trade chart is only a "guide" and not a "must follow". One just has to refer back to the Christian Watson trade up in 2022 that I mentioned. In just picking a random Draft Value Trade Chart, the Packers used 2 picks, which the chart says are worth a total of 680 points for a pick that the chart has valued at 560 points. So either Gute doesn't use the charts or he so desperately wanted Watson, that he was willing to get fleeced by his North Division rivals to get him.

If you go by the chart alone, Gute should have been able to move up to pick #27 with those 2 second round picks. In Gute's "Defense", his next pick was #92 in the 3rd round, which is only valued at 132, so maybe nobody else wanted to trade with him so he could move up and get Watson. Which made him willing to do the unthinkable and let the Vikings take advantage of his desire for Watson.

Moving up in the 2nd Rd from 41 is a big difference from 53 though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Moving up in the 2nd Rd from 41 is a big difference from 53 though.

Yes and No. Really depends on the board and who you like, as well as finding a partner to make it happen. I am guessing we could go through years of drafts and find trades that defied the trade charts in both directions.

If I was a GM, in a deep draft, I would place greater value on my # of picks in the top 100, over actual position.

 

[DoURant]

Yes and No. Really depends on the board and who you like, as well as finding a partner to make it happen. I am guessing we could go through years of drafts and find trades that defied the trade charts in both directions.

If I was a GM, in a deep draft, I would place greater value on my # of picks in the top 100, over actual position.

I want as many top 100 picks also, I just don't see Gute staying pat with 11 picks. He may move up or back, but the odds are he will do something, he has shown aggressiveness through the years.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I just hope they don't repeat 2022 and trade both 2nd round picks to move up in round 2. While I still have hope that Watson can stay healthy and be a solid WR, I still think that was a steep price (picks 53 and 59) to move up to 34. Doing it with the Vikings made it even less palatable for me.

When Gluten traded those picks to get Watson he was desperate. All the worthwhile WRs were gone in round 1 and Watson wasn't gonna last until 53. If Gluten hadn't ignored the WR position for so long, he wouldn't have been in that bind.

And for that we got a guy who can't stay on the field. (And when he took Watson, he was also pacifying Rodgers and the fan base and the sports writers. And to be fair he had not been in a good position to take a WR the year earlier. But he took no WRs either that year. Zero.)

Well all is forgiven after the last two drafts. The WR room is doing quite well, with or without Watson, ironically.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

When Gluten traded those picks to get Watson he was desperate. All the worthwhile WRs were gone in round 1 and Watson wasn't gonna last until 53. If Gluten hadn't ignored the WR position for so long, he wouldn't have been in that bind.

Glad he didn't take Treylon Burks, who I actually really liked, what do I know.

I also really liked George Pickens, despite him missing most of his final year at Georgia due to the ACL he tore the previous year. The Steelers got an absolute steel (pun intended) on him at #52.

Turns out that there were better players, that Gute could have selected, but that is hindsight, as is looking at all the not so good WR's he didn't take in the draft. Getting Romeo Doubs in the 4th, kind of made up for the Watson pick. Although, as I said before, if Watson can stay healthy, he may prove that he was well worth the trade up and then some.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Glad he didn't take Treylon Burks, who I actually really liked, what do I know.

I also really liked George Pickens, despite him missing most of his final year at Georgia due to the ACL he tore the previous year. The Steelers got an absolute steel (pun intended) on him at #52.

Turns out that there were better players, that Gute could have selected, but that is hindsight, as is looking at all the not so good WR's he didn't take in the draft. Getting Romeo Doubs in the 4th, kind of made up for the Watson pick. Although, as I said before, if Watson can stay healthy, he may prove that he was well worth the trade up and then some.

Thanks for the memories! It's amazing how easy it is though to look backward at a draft. It's also painful most of the time. The Packers passed over both Pickens and TJ Watt who both coincidentally went to Pittsburgh. Win some, lose some. At least at the WR position, a lot of bad drafting was corrected in the last two years.

I do hope Watson can stay on the field. His catching has certainly improved and with his speed he can take the top off a defense. He needs to become a better route runner with a more diverse set of routes, but that will come if he stays healthy. I think it took Adams at least three years to start showing promise. Another career like that would be nice.

 

[Poppa San]

Thanks for the memories! It's amazing how easy it is though to look backward at a draft. It's also painful most of the time. The Packers passed over both Pickens and TJ Watt who both coincidentally went to Pittsburgh. Win some, lose some. At least at the WR position, a lot of bad drafting was corrected in the last two years.

I do hope Watson can stay on the field. His catching has certainly improved and with his speed he can take the top off a defense. He needs to become a better route runner with a more diverse set of routes, but that will come if he stays healthy. I think it took Adams at least three years to start showing promise. Another career like that would be nice.

Whenever I doubt Watson's place on the team I watch these game highlights:

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(Lions 2023)

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(Cowboys 2022)
Second one not so much but it also shows what JA23 can do if you let him.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Whenever I doubt Watson's place on the team I watch these game highlights:

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(Lions 2023)

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

(Cowboys 2022)
Second one not so much but it also shows what JA23 can do if you let him.

Watson was a TD machine the last half of his rookie year. He has incredible acceleration and can easily get separation late on a go route.

And when JA isn’t talking, he can fill highlight reels as well. Here’s hoping they both have great seasons. That would be a huge difference in an already v good team.

 

[tynimiller]

Watson was a TD machine the last half of his rookie year. He has incredible acceleration and can easily get separation late on a go route.

And when JA isn’t talking, he can fill highlight reels as well. Here’s hoping they both have great seasons. That would be a huge difference in an already v good team.

The crazy thing is Watson is still growing on his releases and footwork. When he begins winning not just because of speed but also footwork it is going to be special!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The crazy thing is Watson is still growing on his releases and footwork. When he begins winning not just because of speed but also footwork it is going to be special!

I don't doubt this, really the only question in my mind is how long he can stay on the field and in the NFL. In his first 2 seasons, he has missed approximately 11 games due to hamstring issues. Sounds like the Packers are going full monty on trying to figure out the issues.

Packers focus on solving Christian Watson's hamstring problems

Packers receiver Christian Watson missed eight games last year due to hamstring injuries.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[tynimiller]

I don't doubt this, really the only question in my mind is how long he can stay on the field and in the NFL. In his first 2 seasons, he has missed approximately 11 games due to hamstring issues. Sounds like the Packers are going full monty on trying to figure out the issues.

Packers focus on solving Christian Watson's hamstring problems

Packers receiver Christian Watson missed eight games last year due to hamstring injuries.

www.nbcsports.com

Watson’s dad has expressed it’s been specialist after specialist and out of the box approaches which have finally provided answers they claim this off season.

If he can give a team just 13 or so games a season he will be a 900 yard 9 TD producer I think without blinking

 

[Heyjoe4]

The crazy thing is Watson is still growing on his releases and footwork. When he begins winning not just because of speed but also footwork it is going to be special!

Absolutely and all the more important for him to get and stay on the field. And chronic hamstring injuries are tough to deal with, worse than core injuries. I'm sure he's spending a lot of time with trainers and PTs this off season. Hopefully they can find an answer to a very difficult injury.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If he can give a team just 13 or so games a season he will be a 900 yard 9 TD producer I think without blinking

13 straight games, preferably includes all playoff and SB games.

The problem(s) with lingering injuries like he has had, aren't just the missed games. It's a bunch of things.

- Missed Practices
- Availability unknown
- Roster spot
- coming back too soon
- playing, but not 100%

Throw in the fact that he and Love are just beginning to develop chemistry, which takes time at practice and in games.

At least with an ACL, broken bone, cracked ribs, etc. there is some known healing time and usually you come back when you are 100%. Soft tissue injuries like Watson's can be a lingering cloud over a person, especially an athlete, waiting to spring up at anytime. So until he can play at 100%, with few, if any hammy issues, it's always going to plague his NFL career.