Free Agency: Packers Should Green Bay Pursue?

[AmishMafia]

Didn't know much about Kirksey until today. Since he is in for a visit, I thought I would read a bit. The upside, he is a great locker room guy, named team captain, respectable stats for his predicted price range, which I think will be on the low side due to injuries.

Kirksey played in every game in his first four NFL seasons, but injuries have begun to take a toll. Last year he missed 14 games with a torn pectoral muscle that required surgery. He missed a total of nine games the season before, two with an ankle injury and then the last seven with a hamstring injury.

At the right price, I kind of like him. Since he was cut by the Browns, he can sign whenever he wants and won't count towards the Compensatory picks. He would provide a steady veteran presence in addition to some playmaking ability. He also would bring speed to the middle of the field, having reportedly run the 40-yard dash in 4.58 seconds at Iowa’s 2014 Pro Day.

Has he played MLB? Everything I saw said he was an OLB.

I was thinking he is a cheaper depth replacement for Fackrell.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Has he played MLB? Everything I saw said he was an OLB.

I was thinking he is a cheaper depth replacement for Fackrell.

I don't follow the Browns close enough, but I think they play more 4-3 and Kirksey is lining up outside, but plays more like an ILB. I could be wrong on that, but everything I have read is that the Packers would be looking at him as an ILB.

 

[Dantés]

read how you just described him as a player. Then ask yourself if someone with that description should be the highest paid at his position.

I hear this point and have basically said the same thing. But it is fair to point out that this is how FA works. If you're good and make it to the market, you get overpaid.

 

[Dantés]

Has he played MLB? Everything I saw said he was an OLB.

I was thinking he is a cheaper depth replacement for Fackrell.

He is not an edge. He's an off-ball linebacker.

 

[GleefulGary]

Has he played MLB? Everything I saw said he was an OLB.

I was thinking he is a cheaper depth replacement for Fackrell.

He played OLB (Sam or Will), in a 4-3 defense. So he's an ILB in a 3-4, but in base he's not your Mike.

Fackrell is an edge player who would sometimes drop into coverage, just like Preston Smith.

An OLB (Edge) in a 3-4 is not the same as an OLB (Sam or Will) in a 4-3.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If you're good and make it to the market, you get overpaid.

Agreed, especially if there are multiple teams wanting your services, someone is bound to overpay. Throw in the fact that I think generally speaking, every position is making more and more money each year. So people see these new contracts and freak out, but in a few years, before those contracts are even done, they might look like bargains.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well this will have a big impact on the draft and I am wondering if they are or will be doing the same with potential free agent targets?

The NFL sent a memo to clubs saying "we have decided to prohibit all in-person pre-Draft visits involving draft-eligible players effective at the end of this business day, until further notice." More fallout from COVID-19.

 

[mradtke66]

He played OLB (Sam or Will), in a 4-3 defense. So he's an ILB in a 3-4, but in base he's not your Mike.

Fackrell is an edge player who would sometimes drop into coverage, just like Preston Smith.

An OLB (Edge) in a 3-4 is not the same as an OLB (Sam or Will) in a 4-3.

Even more confusing, is that a 4-3 SAM has very similar run-down responsibilities to a 3-4 SAM/Edge player. Particularly in a 4-3 under, ala Seattle or even the Packers under Shurmur. They're up on the line, outside shoulder of the TE.

4-3 MIKE = 3-4 SILB.
4-3 WILL = 3-4 WILB.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Even more confusing, is that a 4-3 SAM has very similar run-down responsibilities to a 3-4 SAM/Edge player. Particularly in a 4-3 under, ala Seattle or even the Packers under Shurmur. They're up on the line, outside shoulder of the TE.

4-3 MIKE = 3-4 SILB.
4-3 WILL = 3-4 WILB.

Good stuff. Thanks. I'm not a fan of just the term "LB", because as you point out, it can mean many different things, just like "DE". To me its like calling Bakhtiari "Offensive Lineman". His ideal position is and he plays LT.

The bottom line I guess, is a team looking at a player, knows where he will or won't fit in what they are trying to do.

 

[GleefulGary]

Good stuff. Thanks. I'm not a fan of just the term "LB", because as you point out, it can mean many different things, just like "DE". To me its like calling Bakhtiari "Offensive Lineman". His ideal position is and he plays LT.

The bottom line I guess, is a team looking at a player, knows where he will or won't fit in what they are trying to do.

In general, it should go like this for the front 7.

iDL, Edge, OBLB (off ball LB).

Obviously there are more details within each position group, like 3T/5T, 0T/1T, and so on and so forth, but that gives the basic idea.

I think classifications like that would help alleviate a lot of the issues have with say, drafting a college 4-3 DE to play ILB in a 3-4. If they knew they were drafting an edge to play edge, might have less issue.

 

[superdan]

Hooper would add a much needed improvement as a receiving tight end. While he isn't on par with Kittle and Kelce he's one of the best pass catchers at the position currently in his prime.



Kittle will be the highest paid tight end pretty soon after the new league year starts.

I hear this point and have basically said the same thing. But it is fair to point out that this is how FA works. If you're good and make it to the market, you get overpaid.

ok, so whether it's number 1 or number 2 highest paid is not really the point. The point lets not be the team dumb enough to pay an average player as if he's the best...again.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

In general, it should go like this for the front 7.

iDL, Edge, OBLB (off ball LB).

Obviously there are more details within each position group, like 3T/5T, 0T/1T, and so on and so forth, but that gives the basic idea.

I think classifications like that would help alleviate a lot of the issues have with say, drafting a college 4-3 DE to play ILB in a 3-4. If they knew they were drafting an edge to play edge, might have less issue.

When you say IDL, are you referring to playing alongside Clark as a second DT in subpakages or the 4T/5T in base alignment?

Personally I hate this whole "edge" designation. Just call them either DEs or OLBs. When you call the players name on Draft Day just say the position they'll primarily play and call it a day.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Vikings release CB Xavier Rhodes, NT Linval Joseph.

I think both have seen better years days, but more cheaper vets for the FA scrap heap.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Rhodes is easily going to be considered the best CB in FA not named Byron Jones. While I would love for him to come to Green Bay he'll probably get what the Vikings just cut him for. But if we could have him for a decent deal that'd be great as that's one less position to worry about in the Draft. A lockdown secondary improves the performance of the front seven with coverage sacks and predictability from the offense.

 

[GleefulGary]

When you say IDL, are you referring to playing alongside Clark as a second DT in subpakages or the 4T/5T in base alignment?

Personally I hate this whole "edge" designation. Just call them either DEs or OLBs. When you call the players name on Draft Day just say the position they'll primarily play and call it a day.

But a DE in a 4-3, and an OLB in a 3-4, essentially play the position. But an OLB in a 4-3 isn't the same as an OLB in a 3-4, obviously. So then you get people thinking a 4-3 OLB should be an OLB in a 3-4, or you get people thinking a 4-3 DE cannot play OLB in a 3-4, even though they're essentially the same position. Leads to too much confusion. The way I'm proposing helps eliminate a lot of that confusion.

As far as iDL, Clark, Lowry, Adams, KeKe (do you love me), and Lancaster are all iDL. Zadarius Smith and Rashan Gary are edges who will sometimes play iDL on passing downs (move to 3T). Because, you see, a 4-3 DT would often be a 3-4 DE. Or he might move to more of a 0T/1T role. Depends on the player. So, like I said, 5T, 3T, 0T, 1T, etc, are all iDL. Simple enough?

 

[GleefulGary]

Rhodes is easily going to be considered the best CB in FA not named Byron Jones. While I would love for him to come to Green Bay he'll probably get what the Vikings just cut him for. But if we could have him for a decent deal that'd be great as that's one less position to worry about in the Draft. A lockdown secondary improves the performance of the front seven with coverage sacks and predictability from the offense.

Rhodes sucks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rhodes is easily going to be considered the best CB in FA not named Byron Jones. While I would love for him to come to Green Bay he'll probably get what the Vikings just cut him for.

Not so sure about that. Rhodes really seemed to go downhill last year. Logging just 73 percent of defensive snaps, allowing an 81.5 completion percentage and a 123.8 passer rating in coverage and earning a meager 46.4 Pro Football Focus grade. I think the Vikings were smart to release him, he still had 3 years left on his 5 year contract!

Even though he is 31, I would be more interested in Joseph on the cheap, unless Rhodes is a cheap deal too.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

He had a couple nagging injuries, which may have caused his lapse in play but he was a solid guy for multiple years before that. A new environment could do wonders for him. The only other competition he has is Ronald Darby who is coming off a torn ACL from this season and Darqueeze Denard.

Just like Kirksey this COULD be where the injury history drives the price down, but pays off dividends. A 2 year contract wouldn't be a bad roll of the dice. Tramon isn't getting any younger and Josh Jackson is in bust territory.

 

[Do7]

Rhodes is easily going to be considered the best CB in FA not named Byron Jones. While I would love for him to come to Green Bay he'll probably get what the Vikings just cut him for. But if we could have him for a decent deal that'd be great as that's one less position to worry about in the Draft. A lockdown secondary improves the performance of the front seven with coverage sacks and predictability from the offense.

Isn't Darius Slay supposed to hit the FA market? Of course I could be mistaken, but I'd argue he's better than Rhodes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Isn't Darius Slay supposed to hit the FA market? Of course I could be mistaken, but I'd argue he's better than Rhodes.

Not til next year, but there is talk of the Lions possibly trying to trade him. No thanks on a one year rental for a high pick and $10.5M salary.

 

[GleefulGary]

I would take Tramon before I take Xavier Rhodes.

 

[Dantés]

Rhodes is easily going to be considered the best CB in FA not named Byron Jones. While I would love for him to come to Green Bay he'll probably get what the Vikings just cut him for. But if we could have him for a decent deal that'd be great as that's one less position to worry about in the Draft. A lockdown secondary improves the performance of the front seven with coverage sacks and predictability from the offense.

Rhodes was totally wretched last year. He's not what he was. Or he was hurt. But he's certainly not the 2nd best corner on the market after how he played last year.

 

[Dantés]

When you say IDL, are you referring to playing alongside Clark as a second DT in subpakages or the 4T/5T in base alignment?

Personally I hate this whole "edge" designation. Just call them either DEs or OLBs. When you call the players name on Draft Day just say the position they'll primarily play and call it a day.

I like "edge" a whole lot more than the constant confusion of people not understanding the difference between an OLB in one scheme and an OLB in another.

Plus, it makes little sense to designate players according to their position in base defense when sub package defense is the new base.

 

[Dantés]

ok, so whether it's number 1 or number 2 highest paid is not really the point. The point lets not be the team dumb enough to pay an average player as if he's the best...again.

I hear you. I really do. But I don't think that Hooper is an average player.

He's not elite, and he will get paid top end money. So that's a disparity. But he's still a lot better than average when you consider the landscape at TE.

I mean, last year the Packers decided to give 16.5M/season to a pass rusher with 18.5 sacks in his first four years of football. That figure raised a lot of eyebrows at the time.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I would take Tramon before I take Xavier Rhodes.

But what if this is the year he falls off a cliff? What then? "Better to part with a player too soon...."

Rhodes was totally wretched last year. He's not what he was. Or he was hurt. But he's certainly not the 2nd best corner on the market after how he played last year.

So no redemption contract? Personally I think he was hurt, you don't inexplicably go from ascending Top 15 CB to bottom feeder so quickly otherwise. Worst case scenario he only supplants Josh Jackson, best case we can let Tramon gracefully retire if/when he so chooses and cut Jackson. Sullivan, I can live with as the 3rd or 4th CB but after that it's shaky past him. I like Redmond now more than I did when the season started but I still don't like him or Greene possibly given coverage duty on anything other than RB.