Free Agency: Packers Should Green Bay Pursue?

[Dantés]

Well GB hasn't really let players go and really the topic at hand stems from last year (I mean the question at hand is current Rodgers not 3 years ago Rodgers) so there hasnt been a chance for any part of the question to be answered. (And I agree we our Wrs arent good outside of Adams)

Theres plenty of blame to go around though and we need an infusion of talent at the skill positions no doubt. Rodgers needs to play better and we need better receivers. But considering Rodgers cap number he needs to be able to cover certain problem areas which he doesnt appear capable of doing any more and that's fair to point out. Asking who has elevated their game after leaving anyways is a non sequitur as I'm stating with Rodgers cap number the opposite needs to happen

It would seem that many though have more of an issue with which side is getting more of the blame.

They've let a lot of receivers go over the seasons. But we don't tend to remember those guys because they didn't amount to anything outside of Green Bay.

For instance, Jarrett Boykin was used pretty heavily one season due to injury, but was let go after 2014 and never recorded another statistic.

They had Chris Harper on the roster for a couple of seasons, and then let him go. He never did anything of note.

Jeff Janis was an untapped HOF talent according to a lot of Packer fans, and after he was allowed to leave he never made another NFL roster.

They cut Jared Abbrederis. He caught three balls for the Lions and hasn't been on a roster since 2017.

They traded Trevor Davis and the Raiders cut him before the season was over.

They cut Max McCaffrey, who then kicked around on the SF practice squad, got drafted by the XFL, and failed to make the XFL roster.

If the truth is that Rodgers holds his receivers back, then someone who gets out of Green Bay should go on to do something. But that hasn't really been the case.

 

[RRyder]

They've let a lot of receivers go over the seasons. But we don't tend to remember those guys because they didn't amount to anything outside of Green Bay.

For instance, Jarrett Boykin was used pretty heavily one season due to injury, but was let go after 2014 and never recorded another statistic.

They had Chris Harper on the roster for a couple of seasons, and then let him go. He never did anything of note.

Jeff Janis was an untapped HOF talent according to a lot of Packer fans, and after he was allowed to leave he never made another NFL roster.

They cut Jared Abbrederis. He caught three balls for the Lions and hasn't been on a roster since 2017.

They traded Trevor Davis and the Raiders cut him before the season was over.

They cut Max McCaffrey, who then kicked around on the SF practice squad, got drafted by the XFL, and failed to make the XFL roster.

If the truth is that Rodgers holds his receivers back, then someone who gets out of Green Bay should go on to do something. But that hasn't really been the case.

1: The question at hand is in regards to current Rodgers. Not the Rodgers that played with any of those players. Its literally impossible to answer the question of who has gone on to be better without him. And it's not even what I said or alluded to. I've quite literally said that that a player making as much as Rodgers NEEDS to be able to cover holes for the obvious reason that cap spent on one position means it cant be spent somewhere else

2: Can you point to where I said that bolded part?

3: Once again. I'm saying with Rodgers cap number he needs to elevate others play. Not being able to do that with his cap number makes for a valid criticism.

I'm trying to make this clear because apparently it seems any criticism on my part is being misconstrued. (evidence by people going down a road that I never even alluded to)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is why I've said repeatedly that failing to pay for Bulaga or another veteran RT will make OT the favorite for pick #30, and might even necessitate a trade up-- not because you can't find tackles later, but because of the immediacy of the need.

Agree. I know that some are in love with Littleton, but given our limited cap, I would question spending that kind of predicted money on a guy that while good at defending the pass, didn't fare so well against the run while playing behind what I think was a better Ram DL than what the Packers have to offer. As much as I would love a great pass defending ILB, I think we have more pressing needs, that our limited cap space won't cover if most of it is spent on an ILB.

I would rather see the Packers spread out their cap money on mid tier guys to fill immediate needs (TE, ILB, WR), guys that potentially have an upside, while still improving on what we already have. After that, use draft picks on the remaining position of needs that a rookie has a better chance at jumping right in (OL, DL), as well hopefully providing players for the future (later picks) for positions of future need (CB, OL, DL, RB, S, QB)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm saying with Rodgers cap number he needs to elevate others play.

You are assuming that he isn't elevating other players play. How do you know that he isn't? Would some of our current and past WR's even make a 53 man roster with another QB? Your assumption is "These guys have the basic skills to be NFL WR's, buts its Rodgers job, because he is paid so much, to make them better.

If you have a good run blocking OL, should any running back be decent behind them?

Yes, most of us acknowledge that Rodgers could improve and that in turn can improve the offense, but you really can't expect him to turn water into wine.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I saw an article this morning that said Bulaga and the Packers haven't really had any talks about a new contract at all.

At this point, I am just viewing RT as a position of need and Bulaga as a free agent. If he wasn't a former Packer that knew the offense, given his injury history and what he is expected to sign for, I don't even think many of us would even be talking about him as a FA option for the Packers. I think he will end up going the way of all his previous line mates (Lang, Sitton and Tretter)..."thanks for your service, but we can't afford you anymore, nor do we want to spend that much given your age (not Tretter)." That plan seemed to work out well with Sitton and Lang. Too bad Spriggs didn't develop as intended.

 

[RRyder]

You are assuming that he isn't elevating other players play. How do you know that he isn't? Would some of our current and past WR's even make a 53 man roster with another QB? Your assumption is "These guys have the basic skills to be NFL WR's, buts its Rodgers job, because he is paid so much, to make them better.

If you have a good run blocking OL, should any running back be decent behind them?

Yes, most of us acknowledge that Rodgers could improve and that in turn can improve the offense, but you really can't expect him to turn water into wine.

And I've also repeatedly acknowledged that we need better receivers and that in turn would make the offense better.... Almost as if you can blame both sides of the equation

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And I've also repeatedly acknowledged that we need better receivers and that in turn would make the offense better.... Almost as if you can blame both sides of the equation

Better WR's would not only make the offense better...but....wait for it.....they might make Aaron Rodgers.....better.

So yes, I think that we all mostly agree that Rodgers can improve on his side of things, but he still needs better receivers (including TE) to work with.

I am guessing in Aaron Rodgers mind, he might be saying "well yeah, it looks like my skills are down, but give me some tools to work with and I will show you what I can still do". Possibly in some receivers mind they are saying "Well hell, I can play in the NFL, but Rodgers has to deliver me the damn ball". So while there is truth to both sides, the Packers are basically stuck with Rodgers for a few more years, their goal right now should be to get him some good receiving tools and see what happens. After all, we have not invested a first round pick in a WR, TE, RB or QB since 2005 when Rodgers was selected.

 

[Dantés]

1: The question at hand is in regards to current Rodgers. Not the Rodgers that played with any of those players. Its literally impossible to answer the question of who has gone on to be better without him. And it's not even what I said or alluded to. I've quite literally said that that a player making as much as Rodgers NEEDS to be able to cover holes for the obvious reason that cap spent on one position means it cant be spent somewhere else

2: Can you point to where I said that bolded part?

3: Once again. I'm saying with Rodgers cap number he needs to elevate others play. Not being able to do that with his cap number makes for a valid criticism.

I'm trying to make this clear because apparently it seems any criticism on my part is being misconstrued. (evidence by people going down a road that I never even alluded to)

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. That post was intended to continue to discuss this topic-- not be a rebuttal. As to the comment in bold, you did not say that. But that is the assertion being made by some in this thread.

But the fact of the matter is that it is impossible to answer that question about the current receivers, as you say. So the next best thing is to look at the long history of his time in Green Bay to try and make an educated guess.

If history is instructive at all, then a receiver who can't do anything in Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers is unlikely to be able to do much of anything, anywhere. That's all I'm saying.

The argument that Rodgers needs to make up for other roster deficiencies because of his cap figure is totally fair. My hope is that he will begin to do that more effectively in year two in a new offensive system. But I've also said repeatedly, just so I'm clear, that if he doesn't improve in 2020 then they should start to consider drafting a new starter at the position.

 

[Dantés]

Agree. I know that some are in love with Littleton, but given our limited cap, I would question spending that kind of predicted money on a guy that while good at defending the pass, didn't fare so well against the run while playing behind what I think was a better Ram DL than what the Packers have to offer. As much as I would love a great pass defending ILB, I think we have more pressing needs, that our limited cap space won't cover if most of it is spent on an ILB.

I would rather see the Packers spread out their cap money on mid tier guys to fill immediate needs (TE, ILB, WR), guys that potentially have an upside, while still improving on what we already have. After that, use draft picks on the remaining position of needs that a rookie has a better chance at jumping right in (OL, DL), as well hopefully providing players for the future (later picks) for positions of future need (CB, OL, DL, RB, S, QB)

Cory Littleton is definitely not a stout run defender. However, some context is necessary when considering his performance as a run defender in LA.

The Rams use Dime more than anyone else in the league. Last year, Littleton plays 94% of the snaps, and the next highest true linebacker was at 26%.

So at 230 pounds, they routinely call on him to be the primary run defender on the 2nd level of their defense. In Green Bay, I would hope that his cover ability would allow the Packers to play less dime and more nickel, which would mean another true linebacker lining up next to him.

 

[scotscheese]

Comma Splice

meh, I got better grades for German over English at school

 

[tynimiller]

Welp...atleast one other person agrees with my predictions fully....

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...ng-the-fate-of-every-unrestricted-free-agent/

Again, my prediction not necessarily my wish.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Anyone know much about Christian Kirksey? LB just cut from the Browns?

 

[tynimiller]

Anyone know much about Christian Kirksey? LB just cut from the Browns?

He was discussed by myself and another in another thread.

His injury concerns are there...but he isn't what many would argue a bonafide #1 candidate. Could he be a #2? For sure if healthy.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

"the revitalized Breeland still allowed 5 touchdown passes to be completed against him last season, a sure sign that he hasn’t been able to successfully eliminate that particular undesirable aspect and deficiency (a knack of giving up “big plays” in pass coverage) from his overall performances; that have haunted him first with Washington and then once again following a brief 1-year stint (in 2018) with the Green Bay Packers."

I don't subscribe to PFF, so not sure where he rates.

PFF graded him at 48.3 last season which is terrible.

The evidence presented that's it's almost all on the WRs is the statistical production of the WRs. Which isnt a valid argument because it COULD be explained by an inaccurate QB.

Adams being able to put up elite numbers with Rodgers throwing the ball seems to be a decent indicator that a lack of talent at wide receiver and tight end is the main reason other players at the positions have struggled.

But considering Rodgers cap number he needs to be able to cover certain problem areas which he doesnt appear capable of doing any more and that's fair to point out.

There's no doubt that Rodgers hasn't performed at an elite level over the past few seasons but in my opinion no other quarterback in the league would be able to elevate the performance of the Packers current receiving corps to an acceptable level.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Anyone know much about Christian Kirksey? LB just cut from the Browns?

All i can tell you is that the linebackers for the Browns were really bad last year so I can't imagine that they would cut a decent player if they thought he was better than below-average.

 

[tynimiller]

All i can tell you is that the linebackers for the Browns were really bad last year so I can't imagine that they would cut a decent player if they thought he was better than below-average.

Joe Schobert ILB is 100% a legit option at ILB and better than half or so of the league's present ones. Honestly, if we miss out on Littleton he or the Bears guy (less proven than Schobert) are the only two guys I'm a fan of pursuing in FA.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

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[tynimiller]

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As I've said healthy he is promising and would be upgrade to Goodson as our #2 IMO

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As I've said healthy he is promising and would be upgrade to Goodson as our #2 IMO

Agreed, most likely Kirksey could be signed for a reasonable deal as well.

 

[GleefulGary]

Good coverage backer when healthy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Didn't know much about Kirksey until today. Since he is in for a visit, I thought I would read a bit. The upside, he is a great locker room guy, named team captain, respectable stats for his predicted price range, which I think will be on the low side due to injuries.

Kirksey played in every game in his first four NFL seasons, but injuries have begun to take a toll. Last year he missed 14 games with a torn pectoral muscle that required surgery. He missed a total of nine games the season before, two with an ankle injury and then the last seven with a hamstring injury.

At the right price, I kind of like him. Since he was cut by the Browns, he can sign whenever he wants and won't count towards the Compensatory picks. He would provide a steady veteran presence in addition to some playmaking ability. He also would bring speed to the middle of the field, having reportedly run the 40-yard dash in 4.58 seconds at Iowa’s 2014 Pro Day.

 

[superdan]

Austin Hooper is not a special player. He is not worth whatever contract he will get. It better not be with GB. Signing him would be another mistake at the position.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Austin Hooper is not a special player. He is not worth whatever contract he will get. It better not be with GB. Signing him would be another mistake at the position.

Austin Hooper is not an elite receiving TE. He is a slightly above-average blocker, very good at finding soft spots in a defense, and not very good against man-coverage. He would be worth $10m a year. I would prefer ebron for 60-70% of that but I can absolutely understand the coaching staff wanting a TE that can run-block and run routes at a high level to help open up the offense. Hooper is a special TE, he's just not the elite/flashy receiver that some others are and most people don't care/notice run-blocking enough to take that into account.

 

[superdan]

read how you just described him as a player. Then ask yourself if someone with that description should be the highest paid at his position.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Austin Hooper is not a special player. He is not worth whatever contract he will get. It better not be with GB. Signing him would be another mistake at the position.

Hooper would add a much needed improvement as a receiving tight end. While he isn't on par with Kittle and Kelce he's one of the best pass catchers at the position currently in his prime.

read how you just described him as a player. Then ask yourself if someone with that description should be the highest paid at his position.

Kittle will be the highest paid tight end pretty soon after the new league year starts.