Free Agency: Packers Should Green Bay Pursue?

[AmishMafia]

This is a pretty horrible take. And a demonstrably horrible take.

If this is true, then why did Sammy Watkins and Demarcus Robinson totally disappear so often last year? They had the best QB play in the league when Mahomes was healthy, and yet...

Why have the Patriots had so many seasons where they couldn't find good, reliable options at wide receiver?

Why is there such a huge difference in the Texans' offense when Will Fuller is out?

Why have the Saints struggled to find a consistent WR2 to pair with Michael Thomas?

Why was the Eagles' WR corps such a dumpster fire last year?

Obviously QB play is a factor for WR performance. But to act as though good QB's can just make WR's good is pretty ignorant of what actually happens in the league.

So when MVS had 2 steps on the CB and Rodgers over threw him by 6 yards he should have still caught it?. When GMo was cutting across the middle wide open and AR looked at him and then scrambled, he still should have caught it?

Man, I'm learning all new stuff about football.

 

[tynimiller]

Amish...the fact you want to place some of the issues on Rodgers shoulders is logical and fine...but the issue is you continually argue the majority if not the vast majority of the issue is his and not the receivers. He literally has a receiver corps I'd argue last year was one of the WORST in the league top to bottom.

We had Adams (legit stud)

then......
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. seriously regressed Graham...that once was a stud...
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An undrafted Gmo expected to be the #2......that failed.....
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A Fifth round MVS from a small conference school that literally only can run fast....expected to be #2 as well.....failed....
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A guy that literally couldn't make the Jags WR room the year prior in Lazard "step up" and provide some structure eventually....
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Kumerow, a blocking TE Lewis and others....

 

[GleefulGary]

So when MVS had 2 steps on the CB and Rodgers over threw him by 6 yards he should have still caught it?. When GMo was cutting across the middle wide open and AR looked at him and then scrambled, he still should have caught it?

Man, I'm learning all new stuff about football.

"Obviously QB play is a factor for WR performance."

If you could keep the topic to what people are actually saying, that would be great. Otherwise it seems a fools game to engage with you.

 

[Dantés]

So when MVS had 2 steps on the CB and Rodgers over threw him by 6 yards he should have still caught it?. When GMo was cutting across the middle wide open and AR looked at him and then scrambled, he still should have caught it?

Man, I'm learning all new stuff about football.

Congratulations-- you have realized that individual players have bad individual plays at times.

Bad news, though-- creating broad swath conclusions based on individual plays is a great way to land on horrible takes, such as the one you've concocted here.

If you think that Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Geronimo Allison, and Jake Kumerow were all really good wide receivers last year that Rodgers suppressed with poor play, please say so. I'd love to have that on record.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Simple, he is an example of a player, a WR, that many fans expected too much out of and he never really delivered and that was from the #5 or #6 spot. Maybe I should have used J'Mon Moore as my poster boy of why things don't always work the way you think they will?

I'm not advocating for the Packers to improve the wide receiving corps by spending a day three pick on a WR but suggest that Gutekunst upgrades the unit by signing a tight end in free agency as well as spending an early rounder on a receiver.

Therefore I don't see the point of bringing up Janis or Moore.

However, the dude has had to play on arguably one of the worst 5-8 teams when it comes to consistency as a whole.

Eifert is in my thoughts, the second tier cream because of a multitude of reasons. While I get he is not a Hooper, but the cost vs production alone to Green Bay would he come here does cause a significant impact in my opinion.

Eifert is 4 years younger, healthier now than he has been in years and is coming off a year in which he showed glimpses again of being what he has been before.

You already know I think fiscally if Hooper is out, I'm a fan of Lewis (resign), Stern and Tonyan going into the draft and maybe even next year. Focus on shoring up the WR need in FA, draft or both and roll. BUT if we look at TE beneath Hooper Eifert is my top most likely to produce for us (not an Ebron fan)...with Fells/Lewis being my #2 and #3 options but are more blockers than receiving options.

Let me be clear about that I don't want the Packers to hold on to Graham by any means. But I don't see the point of adding Eifert either. While I agree that he would be definitely cheaper he doesn't provide a much needed upgrade at the position at this point in his career in my opinion.

Therefore I would prefer the Packers to pass on him if they can't land Hooper. On the other side I'm not in favor of entering the season with Lewis, Tonyan and Sternberger being the top players on the depth chart.

So when MVS had 2 steps on the CB and Rodgers over threw him by 6 yards he should have still caught it?. When GMo was cutting across the middle wide open and AR looked at him and then scrambled, he still should have caught it?

There isn't a single poster denying that Rodgers was partly responsible for the passing offense struggling last season. It's not reasonable to consider him the main factor for it though.

 

[tynimiller]

Let me be clear about that I don't want the Packers to hold on to Graham by any means. But I don't see the point of adding Eifert either. While I agree that he would be definitely cheaper he doesn't provide a much needed upgrade at the position at this point in his career in my opinion.

Therefore I would prefer the Packers to pass on him if they can't land Hooper. On the other side I'm not in favor of entering the season with Lewis, Tonyan and Sternberger being the top players on the depth chart.

LOL...sometimes I swear. Okay, pretend Hooper doesn't happen either because he gets like 14M-16M or Gute and Co. choose paying big money to ILB instead and a RT....what are you doing at TE? You want Hooper, we all understand. My Eifert discussion is in the situation (likely IMO) that Hooper is too salty for us...what TE out there are you targeting or adding?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

LOL...sometimes I swear. Okay, pretend Hooper doesn't happen either because he gets like 14M-16M or Gute and Co. choose paying big money to ILB instead and a RT....what are you doing at TE? You want Hooper, we all understand. My Eifert discussion is in the situation (likely IMO) that Hooper is too salty for us...what TE out there are you targeting or adding?

While I'm not a huge fan of him I would prefer Ebron over Eifert. If the Packers miss out on Hooper it might be smart to trade for help at the position though.

 

[swhitset]

I liked Breeland and wished the Packers hadn't let him walk after 1 season, but maybe he just wasn't a good fit in Green Bay or he didn't want to be in Green Bay? I also think his asking price is going to be much higher this time around and one that the Packers won't be able to afford.

I agree with you regarding the money... but I distinctly remember that he was quoted as saying he loved playing in Green Bay and was disappointed that they didn’t try to resign him.

 

[Mondio]

I agree with you regarding the money... but I distinctly remember that he was quoted as saying he loved playing in Green Bay and was disappointed that they didn’t try to resign him.

I'm not quite sure what to make of any of it really. I mean, he signs a big FA deal that gets voided, and understandably so.

GB gets him on a cheap, basically less than 1 million for games played and prove it deal, and he does I think. I mean he had a slow start when he got in, but everyone was in mid season form and he was seeing his first action in a year, but after a game or 2, he was an obvious playmaker for us.

I'm thinking, well he's going to get a bigger contract, I'd like to keep him, but understand if we don't and we don't. BUt not because he got someone to invest in him, it was a measly 1 year deal again for 2 million? and he had a pretty decent year I think, at least from the handful of games I watched of KC. I'd "think" he's going to get someone to pay him to play, but then I thought he would have after showing what he did in GB too. a 1 year 2 million dollar contract is nothing for an NFL caliber DB whos' still pretty young. Is there something we don't know?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is there something we don't know?

That is kind of what I was wondering and hinting to, we just don't know all the details. When we try to put together some of the pieces, like you just did, the puzzle isn't quite clear.

The one knock that I have found on him is that he has a tendency to give up big plays:

"the revitalized Breeland still allowed 5 touchdown passes to be completed against him last season, a sure sign that he hasn’t been able to successfully eliminate that particular undesirable aspect and deficiency (a knack of giving up “big plays” in pass coverage) from his overall performances; that have haunted him first with Washington and then once again following a brief 1-year stint (in 2018) with the Green Bay Packers."

I don't subscribe to PFF, so not sure where he rates. If that is the only problem, based on what I saw of him in Green Bay and KC, as well as his age, he would be a solid signing at the price he played for in KC, but I think he will be getting paid a lot more, unless there are more pieces of the puzzle we don't know about.

 

[AmishMafia]

There isn't a single poster denying that Rodgers was partly responsible for the passing offense struggling last season. It's not reasonable to consider him the main factor for it though.

That's fine. You have an opinion. I'm not sure why it cant be considered by some people and cant be discussed.

The evidence presented that's it's almost all on the WRs is the statistical production of the WRs. Which isnt a valid argument because it COULD be explained by an inaccurate QB. Lack of talent of WRs is explained by draft status (which I used the same logic to prove Rodgers isnt very talented).


I tend to get sarcastic when I'm frustrated with a narrow points of view. Anyhow, I'm done posting about it.

 

[GleefulGary]

That's fine. You have an opinion. I'm not sure why it cant be considered by some people and cant be discussed.

The evidence presented that's it's almost all on the WRs is the statistical production of the WRs. Which isnt a valid argument because it COULD be explained by an inaccurate QB. Lack of talent of WRs is explained by draft status (which I used the same logic to prove Rodgers isnt very talented).


I tend to get sarcastic when I'm frustrated with a narrow points of view. Anyhow, I'm done posting about it.

Yes. The same logic about talent being a late first round pick compared to a late Day 3 pick. Totally the same thing there.

Look. Anybody who watches our WR's, and watches a bit of the NFL, can tell they aren't the most talented players. Draft spot can help explain, but the tape tells us all we need to know. They just aren't that good.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think if we were seeing WR's leaving Green Bay and playing well elsewhere, you would have a stronger argument that Rodgers is mostly to blame. However, that isn't the case. I asked this before and nobody answered, what WR's haven't played up to their potential in Green Bay and then go elsewhere and thrive?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

LOL...sometimes I swear. Okay, pretend Hooper doesn't happen either because he gets like 14M-16M or Gute and Co. choose paying big money to ILB instead and a RT....what are you doing at TE? You want Hooper, we all understand. My Eifert discussion is in the situation (likely IMO) that Hooper is too salty for us...what TE out there are you targeting or adding?

Definitely prefer Ebron over Eifert.

 

[Dantés]

That's fine. You have an opinion. I'm not sure why it cant be considered by some people and cant be discussed.

The evidence presented that's it's almost all on the WRs is the statistical production of the WRs. Which isnt a valid argument because it COULD be explained by an inaccurate QB. Lack of talent of WRs is explained by draft status (which I used the same logic to prove Rodgers isnt very talented).


I tend to get sarcastic when I'm frustrated with a narrow points of view. Anyhow, I'm done posting about it.

No... the evidence presented is that QB play can't make a bad wide receiver into a good wide receiver. Your case is that the WR corps was fine and that Rodgers screwed it up-- that Rodgers should have made MVS, Allison, and Kumerow into consistent, productive players (nevermind that Allen Lazard was productive with Rodgers-- that disrupts the narrative). That's ridiculous on its face. All you have to do is look at the depth chart. Literally no one is trying to say that Rodgers was perfect last year. I certainly don't think that. Not even close. But I'm still not going to ignore the obvious deficiency at the WR position.

I and most other posters are saying that BOTH the WR position needs to improve AND Rodgers need to execute the offense more efficiently. That is not narrow; it's balanced. The narrow point of view is the one we're all arguing with-- i.e. yours.

 

[Dantés]

I think if we were seeing WR's leaving Green Bay and playing well elsewhere, you would have a stronger argument that Rodgers is mostly to blame. However, that isn't the case. I asked this before and nobody answered, what WR's haven't played up to their potential in Green Bay and then go elsewhere and thrive?

You're not going to get an answer because it hasn't really happened. You'll hear about how someone like Jake Kumerow ought to be way more productive than he is, but then once he leaves Green Bay and doesn't even make another roster (a la Jeff Janis), you won't hear about him any more.

In the ultimate absurdity, people will say that these fringe NFL talents, such as Allison or Kumerow, who are only relevant in the first place because of Rodgers, are being held back by him-- that they ought to be much better, but he's just not playing well enough to unlock them.

This is why I've always said that the narrative that Rodgers won't throw to people unless they're really good and really familiar to him is baseless. If guys demonstrate they can play, he will throw them the ball. We just saw it with Allen Lazard. We saw it when Allison came in as a UDFA. We saw it back in the day with Jarrett Boykin.

 

[scotscheese]

I have a clear understanding of the english vocabulary.

This made me laugh, an American thinks he has an understanding of the English vocabulary

 

[Dantés]

This made me laugh, an American thinks he has an understanding of the English vocabulary

Comma Splice

 

[Curly Calhoun]

The rumored targets are Cory Littleton and Austin Hooper. I don't really have a problem with either, but it seems to me that the pack has a big hole at right tackle at present (Assuming Bulaga is gone, which seems to be the way its going). Alex Light doesn't seem like the guy to fill the void.

Jack Conklin? He'd be expensive, and likely wants left tackle money....He's 26, so he should be in is prime about now.

Or a rookie. Always a scary proposition, although Elgton Jenkins was better than serviceable as a rookie guard last season.

Here's hoping RT does not become a big story next year for Green Bay for the wrong reason.

 

[Dantés]

The rumored targets are Cory Littleton and Austin Hooper. I don't really have a problem with either, but it seems to me that the pack has a big hole at right tackle at present (Assuming Bulaga is gone, which seems to be the way its going). Alex Light doesn't seem like the guy to fill the void.

Jack Conklin? He'd be expensive, and likely wants left tackle money....He's 26, so he should be in is prime about now.

Or a rookie. Always a scary proposition, although Elgton Jenkins was better than serviceable as a rookie guard last season.

Here's hoping RT does not become a big story next year for Green Bay for the wrong reason.

This is a serious consideration.

The Packers can't sign both Hooper and Littleton while keeping Bulaga unless they really want to mortgage the future. As we saw last offseason, that can happen, but will they do it again? I kind of doubt it.

If someone says they'd rather have these young guys in their primes, Littleton and Hooper, over keeping an aging Bryan Bulaga, I understand that argument. However, it will immediately make RT the #1 priority for the draft, because signing Hooper and Littleton means they won't be players for a legit starter at RT in free agency.

It's only a rumor at this point, but it was reported that the Jets were/are ready to give Conklin a contract comparable to Lane Johnson-- 18M/season. The Packers can't afford him at that price.

I don't buy the idea of getting by for a season with Veldheer and/or Turner at right tackle. I think that would turn out to be a disaster, and is far too risky considering we are in a shrinking window with Rodgers' age.

This is why I've said repeatedly that failing to pay for Bulaga or another veteran RT will make OT the favorite for pick #30, and might even necessitate a trade up-- not because you can't find tackles later, but because of the immediacy of the need.

 

[tynimiller]

I don't buy the idea of getting by for a season with Veldheer and/or Turner at right tackle. I think that would turn out to be a disaster, and is far too risky considering we are in a shrinking window with Rodgers' age.

This is why I've said repeatedly that failing to pay for Bulaga or another veteran RT will make OT the favorite for pick #30, and might even necessitate a trade up-- not because you can't find tackles later, but because of the immediacy of the need.

That contradicts your Veldheer statement. We cannot enter the draft without resigning Bulaga, Veldheer or another one year patch type RT veteran. The hush hush nature of Bulaga's name and the Packers connected makes me foresee Veldheer resigning more and more likely. I think no matter what we do, OT is going to be something we want to leave the draft with this year. Resigning Bulaga could make eyse look elsewhere for first round or two...but still I bet we take one before the end of the 5th at the latest and at least two in the draft no matter what.

 

[Dantés]

That contradicts your Veldheer statement. We cannot enter the draft without resigning Bulaga, Veldheer or another one year patch type RT veteran. The hush hush nature of Bulaga's name and the Packers connected makes me foresee Veldheer resigning more and more likely. I think no matter what we do, OT is going to be something we want to leave the draft with this year. Resigning Bulaga could make eyse look elsewhere for first round or two...but still I bet we take one before the end of the 5th at the latest and at least two in the draft no matter what.

I should have been clearer.

What I meant was "failing to pay for Bulaga or another starting caliber veteran RT will make OT the favorite for pick #30.

Keeping Veldheer would be fine with me. I think he's a good veteran backup to have around, to spot start, and to potentially start the season if a rookie is still getting up to speed. But I do not think he's a solution at the position for the 2020 season. I think that would be a pretty major weakness on the roster, and possibly a debilitating one.

 

[RRyder]

I think if we were seeing WR's leaving Green Bay and playing well elsewhere, you would have a stronger argument that Rodgers is mostly to blame. However, that isn't the case. I asked this before and nobody answered, what WR's haven't played up to their potential in Green Bay and then go elsewhere and thrive?

Well GB hasn't really let players go and really the topic at hand stems from last year (I mean the question at hand is current Rodgers not 3 years ago Rodgers) so there hasnt been a chance for any part of the question to be answered. (And I agree we our Wrs arent good outside of Adams)

Theres plenty of blame to go around though and we need an infusion of talent at the skill positions no doubt. Rodgers needs to play better and we need better receivers. But considering Rodgers cap number he needs to be able to cover certain problem areas which he doesnt appear capable of doing any more and that's fair to point out. Asking who has elevated their game after leaving anyways is a non sequitur as I'm stating with Rodgers cap number the opposite needs to happen

It would seem that many though have more of an issue with which side is getting more of the blame.

 

[tynimiller]

I should have been clearer.

What I meant was "failing to pay for Bulaga or another starting caliber veteran RT will make OT the favorite for pick #30.

Keeping Veldheer would be fine with me. I think he's a good veteran backup to have around, to spot start, and to potentially start the season if a rookie is still getting up to speed. But I do not think he's a solution at the position for the 2020 season. I think that would be a pretty major weakness on the roster, and possibly a debilitating one.

I assumed as much but didn't want for sure assume it.

I think many forget Veldheer was set to start for the Patriots upon originally signing with them in 2019...and had come off of 12 starts at RT for the Broncos the previous season. We got lucky with his "retirement" decision only to discover his injury not as significant in rehab as originally thought and we nabbed him CHEAP.

I mean "affordable" RTs with recent significant starting experience to consider besides Veldheer would be IMO:


Mike Remmers - NYG - 14 game starter in 2019
Germain Ifedi - SEA - 16 game, EVERY snap starter in 2019...at just 25 years old, I strongly feel will like Cronklin price himself out of our price range.
Marcus Gilbert - ARI - Was on IR all of 2019, starter prior though.
Demar Dotson - TB - 15 game starter in 2019
LaAdrian Waddle - BUF - Was on IR all of 2019, stater prior though.
Donald Penn - WAS - 15 game starter in 2019....but is 36 years old.
Marshall Newhouse - NE - 9 game starter in 2019
Daryl Williams - CAR - 12 game starter in 2019
JMarcus Webb - MIA - 8 game starter in 2019

 

[Mondio]

I saw an article this morning that said Bulaga and the Packers haven't really had any talks about a new contract at all. Take it as you will, but that seems to be a pretty good indication they've either said, this is what we'll pay off the record and they basically said, we're going to go shopping. Or GB knows what they're willing to offer is not anywhere in the ball park of what he's going to get from someone and didn't even bother.

I think odds that he's back is pretty small and i don't fault them for that either. It leaves a hole, but if i'm gambling on a big contract, it's going to be a young guy without an injury history. not a guy with a pretty good one and on his last legs.