ESPN-Ranking the 5 WORST NFL OFFSEASONS BY TEAM

[tynimiller]

Perhaps avoid definitive statements until the season is over? Just some advice.

I rarely try to state things definitively...but I can pretty much guarantee this will not happen. (Bet even Capt will agree LOL)

 

[tynimiller]

Besides Adams, the Packers have a bunch of low round draft choices and free agents at WR. At what other position group has that worked out? We saw what happened when Ladarius Gunter was a starting CB. It wasn't pretty in the 2016 NFCCG. While Funchess was a second round pick, I don't consider him a significant upgrade in talent over the 2-6 WR's. The Packers already have an elite RB and a decent running game. Improving a position of strength and neglecting a position of need just gives oppossing coordinators too many options in stopping the offense.

That elite RB you speak of is a Day 3 pick.

There is always individual cases grabbed which can prove such a broad point as this either way. Funchess is a 2nd round draft pick, no other way to slice it. If I were giving him "weight" arguably to this year's draft I'd say he was a Day 2 guy added to our roster (upside is there, lot to prove as to who he is) and then Begelton is a late Day 3 type guy. Begelton can easily argue he has done more, against more than any WR drafted this year and EASILY is like adding a Day 3 guy. In essence we added a 2nd/3rd rounder in Funchess and a 6th/7th rounder on Begelton.

I will forever have wanted a WR with our first rounder, and nothing is going to change that - even if both Funchess and Begelton work out.

 

[Mavster]

That elite RB you speak of is a Day 3 pick.

There is always individual cases grabbed which can prove such a broad point as this either way. Funchess is a 2nd round draft pick, no other way to slice it. If I were giving him "weight" arguably to this year's draft I'd say he was a Day 2 guy added to our roster (upside is there, lot to prove as to who he is) and then Begelton is a late Day 3 type guy. Begelton can easily argue he has done more, against more than any WR drafted this year and EASILY is like adding a Day 3 guy. In essence we added a 2nd/3rd rounder in Funchess and a 6th/7th rounder on Begelton.

I will forever have wanted a WR with our first rounder, and nothing is going to change that - even if both Funchess and Begelton work out.

Bagelton will be 27 by the start of the season.

While it’s a nice story. He went undrafted for a reason. Bagelton is a fringe NFL player like Kumerow. Expecting much production from him - if any, seems unlikely.

Plus it’s hard to say he’s easily done more against better competition in the CFL. The lack of CFL players coming over to the NFL and having success proves that. I would have selected plenty of receivers over him in this draft.

 

[tynimiller]

Bagelton will be 27 by the start of the season.

While it’s a nice story. He went undrafted for a reason. Bagelton is a fringe NFL player like Kumerow. Expecting much production from him - if any, seems unlikely.

Plus it’s hard to say he’s easily done more against better competition in the CFL. The lack of CFL players coming over to the NFL and having success proves that. I would have selected plenty of receivers over him in this draft.

Well it's Begelton, and no one is saying he is going to light the world unfire. It is a very logical stance to take that he has as much if not more of a chance to catch on than a Day 3 WR picked this year given all his experience on the professional level albeit in the CFL; which is a higher level of competition than quite a few college football programs see, especially the smaller school guys.

Also no one is saying they'd have picked Begelton over a slew of WR in the draft this year. Shoot I could list easily a dozen or more before I'd say I'd go Begelton over them....matter of fact here is a very quick list of guys I'd have picked over Begelton from this year's draft that come quickly to mind:

Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs, Pittman, Aiyuk, Laviska, Edwards, V. Jefferson, J. Jefferson, Gibson, Hamler, Reagor, Higgins, Claypool, Mims, Bowden, T. Johnson, Davis and Duvernay

Few that come to mind I'd have considered taking Begelton over: Gandy-Golden, Reed, C Johnson, Hightower, Cephus, Coulter, Osborn, Hill, Hodgins, DPJ....only one of these guys went above the 5th round if memory serves (Gandy-Golden).

I don't have crazy expectations for him...but I also have realistic abilities to apply a Day 3 grade on him in a discussion of what value his addition is similar to.

 

[Pugger]

An NFL QB needs to know the route of any back, TE or WR for that particular play and changes to the route based upon coverage. Just for the XYZ receivers that is theoretically 1000 total combinations. Add in the TE or an RB and that number increases. Those players need to only know their route and then execute it so that they are in the right place with enough seperation to catch the ball. Why would a QB trust a receiver that cannot do their job? Why would a GM and coaching staff hold onto a player who cannot do their job?

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/tom-brady-explains-how-he-didnt-trust-some-wide-receivers

I'd wager this is exactly how Rodgers feels too. QBs have to know the receivers will be where they are supposed to be and/or will alter their routes according to what the defense is showing/doing. The QB doesn't have all day to throw the ball. Often he is throwing it to a spot where the receiver will be shortly.

 

[Pugger]

Well it's Begelton, and no one is saying he is going to light the world unfire. It is a very logical stance to take that he has as much if not more of a chance to catch on than a Day 3 WR picked this year given all his experience on the professional level albeit in the CFL; which is a higher level of competition than quite a few college football programs see, especially the smaller school guys.

Also no one is saying they'd have picked Begelton over a slew of WR in the draft this year. Shoot I could list easily a dozen or more before I'd say I'd go Begelton over them....matter of fact here is a very quick list of guys I'd have picked over Begelton from this year's draft that come quickly to mind:

Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs, Pittman, Aiyuk, Laviska, Edwards, V. Jefferson, J. Jefferson, Gibson, Hamler, Reagor, Higgins, Claypool, Mims, Bowden, T. Johnson, Davis and Duvernay

Few that come to mind I'd have considered taking Begelton over: Gandy-Golden, Reed, C Johnson, Hightower, Cephus, Coulter, Osborn, Hill, Hodgins, DPJ....only one of these guys went above the 5th round if memory serves (Gandy-Golden).

I don't have crazy expectations for him...but I also have realistic abilities to apply a Day 3 grade on him in a discussion of what value his addition is similar to.

Lazard, Begelton and Fuchness will be battling it out for #2 and #3 behind Adams. I think this could be one of the more entertaining competitions in TC.

 

[GleefulGary]

Lazard, Begelton and Fuchness will be battling it out for #2 and #3 behind Adams. I think this could be one of the more entertaining competitions in TC.

Begelton won't be near that competition. Honestly, he'll be lucky to make the roster. If he shows he can block as well as Kumerow, he'll probably beat him out. MVS and EQSB will play a lot more than Begelton.

 

[tynimiller]

Begelton won't be near that competition. Honestly, he'll be lucky to make the roster. If he shows he can block as well as Kumerow, he'll probably beat him out. MVS and EQSB will play a lot more than Begelton.

I am a Begelton fan and place him in the battle for that #4 spot with ESB, Kumerow and MVS....all three "may" have a chance at #3, but honestly I expect Funchess/Lazard to hold down the #2/#3 spots. The nice thing about ESB/MVS and Begelton if we were to keep 6 deep are all three different type guys enough to offer a variety of things for MLF to play with. ESB is a pure possession BIG target that is smart in his routes and reading defenses. MVS is a burner....a BURNER. Begelton is a great YAC guy, I can see a slot option out of a fair amount. My gut is with our more run centric offensive game plans we don't keep 6...but 5: Adams, Funchess and Lazard to me are the only locks to earn a spot...that leaves 2 more.

 

[GleefulGary]

I am a Begelton fan and place him in the battle for that #4 spot with ESB, Kumerow and MVS....all three "may" have a chance at #3, but honestly I expect Funchess/Lazard to hold down the #2/#3 spots. The nice thing about ESB/MVS and Begelton if we were to keep 6 deep are all three different type guys enough to offer a variety of things for MLF to play with. ESB is a pure possession BIG target that is smart in his routes and reading defenses. MVS is a burner....a BURNER. Begelton is a great YAC guy, I can see a slot option out of a fair amount. My gut is with our more run centric offensive game plans we don't keep 6...but 5: Adams, Funchess and Lazard to me are the only locks to earn a spot...that leaves 2 more.

I can't imagine having less than 6 WR's.

Begelton and Kumerow are a solid tier below MVS and EQSB, imo. I personally think EQSB is the best WR after Adams, but we shall see. Funchess is a total wild card, just not sure what we have there tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if Lazard is the 4th guy in terms of production (catches, yards, tuddies).

Imo:

Adams
EQSB
Funchess/Lazard
MVS
Begelton/Kumerow/Stewart

Stewart could make the team just because he's the only smaller, traditional slot and has a little more ST's value than Begelton and Kumerow. Ervin (if he makes the roster) and Jones can also play some slot imo.

 

[AmishMafia]

And you know this because you’re in the locker room with him and practicing with and him, playing with him?

So he displays his leadership skills only in the lockerroom these days? Did he get shy?

That’s quite the leap

But have fun psycho analyzing an athletes perceived leadership and chemistry solely based on camera shots during the game

Even a casual viewer should be able to see the obvious differences.

I just feel bad for the guy. Nobody Use to question his leadership. He is visibly frustrated at times and it’s understandable. I enjoy a feel good story like Reggie Begelton, Jake Kumerow, Jeff Janis, and Allen Lazard but a roster full of 6th, 7th and UFA’s would frustrate anyone.

He also has one of the best WRs in the NFL and a top notch receiving RB. They also had the highest paid TE. Although it didn't work out, production wise, it was a weapon that was not entirely used.

Maybe the WRs would do better if Rodgers was a better leader? He should be a professional and play as well as he can regardless of matters that are out of his control.

And this whole the WRs are not talented because they were drafted late is just silly. We can use the same argument to say that Rodgers isn't very good either as many of the current QBs were drafted higher than he was.

 

[tynimiller]

I can't imagine having less than 6 WR's.

Begelton and Kumerow are a solid tier below MVS and EQSB, imo. I personally think EQSB is the best WR after Adams, but we shall see. Funchess is a total wild card, just not sure what we have there tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if Lazard is the 4th guy in terms of production (catches, yards, tuddies).

Imo:

Adams
EQSB
Funchess/Lazard
MVS
Begelton/Kumerow/Stewart

Stewart could make the team just because he's the only smaller, traditional slot and has a little more ST's value than Begelton and Kumerow. Ervin (if he makes the roster) and Jones can also play some slot imo.

You don't have to toot the ESB horn or convince me of it. I love the kid ever since watching him down the road at Notre Dame. I just know coming into the season he is not going to be above Lazard, Funchess or Adams obviously. I don't disagree with you at all, I like EQ more than either Funchess or Lazard in all honestly. His height and speed is rare...but the dude's brain is where he distinguishes himself even further into the uniquely gifted.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Many of the "defend Rodgers at all costs" guys will disagree that he hesitates to throw to certain receivers. But if the front office thinks he does, it helps explain the Jordan Love pick. Since he's a MLF guy, he would probably fully embrace his system.

None of this adds up in any way

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I just feel bad for the guy. Nobody Use to question his leadership. He is visibly frustrated at times and it’s understandable. I enjoy a feel good story like Reggie Begelton, Jake Kumerow, Jeff Janis, and Allen Lazard but a roster full of 6th, 7th and UFA’s would frustrate anyone.

Well, I mean I can agree with Amish's point on that late round WRs can be good, there definitely are not very many of them who are tearing up the league right now on any team, other than Tyreek Hill (5th rounder).

Plus add to that, take a look back at all the wide receivers we have had over the last 28 years or so who have been star contributors to the team, and almost all of them except for Donald Driver were drafted in the first three rounds, or were big free agent signings like Don Beebe or Andre Rison.

I think what just drives me nuts is yes it might have bad optics for Rodgers to react the way he does sometimes, but Favre was way worse about it. He was given way more weapons on offense throughout his prime than Rodgers ever has been, and therefore had no excuse for forcing interceptions and constantly threatening to retire.

 

[Mavster]

Well it's Begelton, and no one is saying he is going to light the world unfire. It is a very logical stance to take that he has as much if not more of a chance to catch on than a Day 3 WR picked this year given all his experience on the professional level albeit in the CFL; which is a higher level of competition than quite a few college football programs see, especially the smaller school guys.

Also no one is saying they'd have picked Begelton over a slew of WR in the draft this year. Shoot I could list easily a dozen or more before I'd say I'd go Begelton over them....matter of fact here is a very quick list of guys I'd have picked over Begelton from this year's draft that come quickly to mind:

Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs, Pittman, Aiyuk, Laviska, Edwards, V. Jefferson, J. Jefferson, Gibson, Hamler, Reagor, Higgins, Claypool, Mims, Bowden, T. Johnson, Davis and Duvernay

Few that come to mind I'd have considered taking Begelton over: Gandy-Golden, Reed, C Johnson, Hightower, Cephus, Coulter, Osborn, Hill, Hodgins, DPJ....only one of these guys went above the 5th round if memory serves (Gandy-Golden).

I don't have crazy expectations for him...but I also have realistic abilities to apply a Day 3 grade on him in a discussion of what value his addition is similar to.

Yea i completely misread the second part of your post about BEGELton.

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[Fat Dogs]

So he displays his leadership skills only in the lockerroom these days? Did he get shy?

Even a casual viewer should be able to see the obvious differences.




He also has one of the best WRs in the NFL and a top notch receiving RB. They also had the highest paid TE. Although it didn't work out, production wise, it was a weapon that was not entirely used.

Maybe the WRs would do better if Rodgers was a better leader? He should be a professional and play as well as he can regardless of matters that are out of his control.

And this whole the WRs are not talented because they were drafted late is just silly. We can use the same argument to say that Rodgers isn't very good either as many of the current QBs were drafted higher than he was.

Adams was drafted in the 2nd and the pack got lucky with Aaron Jones. He wasn’t even the first RB taken by us in that same draft. Yes, you can get receivers late but the odds lessen after the first 3 rounds. 2019’s top 16 receiving yards leaders were all drafted in rounds 1-3. You’d have to go all the way down to #17 (Stefon Diggs 5th) to find someone drafted after the first 3 rounds. Ps Jimmy G was also drafted in the top 3 rounds.

your statement about Rodgers makes no sense since he was a first rounder. Your take on Rodgers is ridiculous. He’s a hall of fame QB who has a Super Bowl, 2 league MVP’s, and 8 pro bowls despite the FO failing him yearly.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Well, I mean I can agree with Amish's point on that late round WRs can be good, there definitely are not very many of them who are tearing up the league right now on any team, other than Tyreek Hill (5th rounder).

Plus add to that, take a look back at all the wide receivers we have had over the last 28 years or so who have been star contributors to the team, and almost all of them except for Donald Driver were drafted in the first three rounds, or were big free agent signings like Don Beebe or Andre Rison.

I think what just drives me nuts is yes it might have bad optics for Rodgers to react the way he does sometimes, but Favre was way worse about it. He was given way more weapons on offense throughout his prime than Rodgers ever has been, and therefore had no excuse for forcing interceptions and constantly threatening to retire.

Rodgers carried this team for years so it’s really sad to see fans throw him under the bus when the FO has given him zero help.

 

[rmontro]

None of this adds up in any way

I said IF the front office thinks Rodgers is not buying into MLF's system, MLF would want to bring in his own guy, which would explain the Jordan Love pick. What about that does not add up?

Rodgers carried this team for years so it’s really sad to see fans throw him under the bus when the FO has given him zero help.

Seems like the team has spent the better part of the last decade trying to fix the defense, so it does seem like they haven't invested enough in the offense.

 

[Mavster]

Seems like the team has spent the better part of the last decade trying to fix the defense, so it does seem like they haven't invested enough in the offense.

You could say that again. With the amount of investment the FO has poured into the defensive side it's surprising we haven't even been able to at least stumble into an elite unit for one season.

 

[rmontro]

You could say that again. With the amount of investment the FO has poured into the defensive side it's surprising we haven't even been able to at least stumble into an elite unit for one season.

Yeah, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then

 

[Fat Dogs]

I said IF the front office thinks Rodgers is not buying into MLF's system, MLF would want to bring in his own guy, which would explain the Jordan Love pick. What about that does not add up?


Seems like the team has spent the better part of the last decade trying to fix the defense, so it does seem like they haven't invested enough in the offense.

It’s absurd. Rodgers did what he did on arm talent alone. Management finally uses a first rounder on offense and it’s to replace him. Had to feel like a smack in the face.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I said IF the front office thinks Rodgers is not buying into MLF's system, MLF would want to bring in his own guy, which would explain the Jordan Love pick. What about that does not add up?

I think I just misread your point, but I see what you're saying now. Yeah if that were true, perhaps they would go with a new guy they felt would better excel in our current offense. But I don't see any evidence that Rodgers is not working with or seeing eye to eye with LaFleur. So far all reports I get would seem to indicate things are mostly going pretty well.

Rodgers carried this team for years so it’s really sad to see fans throw him under the bus when the FO has given him zero help.

Yup, it's understandable to spend maybe a couple offseasons trying to prioritize fixing the mess Capers made, but that excuse doesn't fly now when we spent picks on several offensive positions this draft that were unneeded. I know we gotta let the season play out and let the chips fall where they may, but any failures in where this team finishes are going to have blame right where it belongs on Benedict Arnold Gute's head. This should have been Elliott Wolfe's job and not his.

 

[rmontro]

It’s absurd. Rodgers did what he did on arm talent alone. Management finally uses a first rounder on offense and it’s to replace him. Had to feel like a smack in the face.

That's a really good point.

And since no one has brought this up yet (that I've seen), I'll post this link here. Rodgers says he wasn't thrilled by the Love pick, but understands. And says he may not be able to finish his career with the Packers because of factors out of his control. I take it those factors are the front office possibly wanting to replace him. Of course MLF denied that, so who knows?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...desire-stay-packers-entire-career-not-reality

I don't see any evidence that Rodgers is not working with or seeing eye to eye with LaFleur.

I agree with that. They did have that one little on field argument about Rodgers not taking the open throw, but competitive people aren't always going to agree. If MLF wanted a game manager type quarterback, it really wouldn't make sense for Gute to hire him in the first place, considering we have Rodgers. Unless Gute was planning for a future without Rodgers even then. But since he resigned Rodgers to that big contract, I doubt that was the case. Although I guess you could argue he had no choice.

 

[Fat Dogs]

I think I just misread your point, but I see what you're saying now. Yeah if that were true, perhaps they would go with a new guy they felt would better excel in our current offense. But I don't see any evidence that Rodgers is not working with or seeing eye to eye with LaFleur. So far all reports I get would seem to indicate things are mostly going pretty well.



Yup, it's understandable to spend maybe a couple offseasons trying to prioritize fixing the mess Capers made, but that excuse doesn't fly now when we spent picks on several offensive positions this draft that were unneeded. I know we gotta let the season play out and let the chips fall where they may, but any failures in where this team finishes are going to have blame right where it belongs on Benedict Arnold Gute's head. This should have been Elliott Wolfe's job and not his.

Using 3 firsts and 4 seconds on DB’s the past 6 years is a little excessive...

 

[Fat Dogs]

That's a really good point.

And since no one has brought this up yet (that I've seen), I'll post this link here. Rodgers says he wasn't thrilled by the Love pick, but understands. And says he may not be able to finish his career with the Packers because of factors out of his control. I take it those factors are the front office possibly wanting to replace him. Of course MLF denied that, so who knows?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...desire-stay-packers-entire-career-not-reality


I agree with that. They did have that one little on field argument about Rodgers not taking the open throw, but competitive people aren't always going to agree. If MLF wanted a game manager type quarterback, it really wouldn't make sense for Gute to hire him in the first place, considering we have Rodgers. Unless Gute was planning for a future without Rodgers even then. But since he resigned Rodgers to that big contract, I doubt that was the case. Although I guess you could argue he had no choice.

One doesn’t draft a QB in the first for any other reason.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well it's Begelton, and no one is saying he is going to light the world unfire. It is a very logical stance to take that he has as much if not more of a chance to catch on than a Day 3 WR picked this year given all his experience on the professional level albeit in the CFL; which is a higher level of competition than quite a few college football programs see, especially the smaller school guys.

Begelton most likely has the same chance as a day three pick to have an impact this season. Of course fans were advocating for selectibg a wide receiver prospect in the first two days of the draft.

MVS is a burner....a BURNER.

Unfortunately he can't run the correct route to save his life.

He also has one of the best WRs in the NFL and a top notch receiving RB.

While Jones significantly improved as a receiver last season he's not a top notch player in that regard yet. He ranked 14th among running backs in receptions in 2019.

He was given way more weapons on offense throughout his prime than Rodgers ever has been, and therefore had no excuse for forcing interceptions and constantly threatening to retire.

Rodgers had a lot of talent at wide receiver and tight end for a long time. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case over the past few years.