Comparing 2008 Packers Roster vs 2023 Packers Roster

[tynimiller]

My problem with your theory of secretly wanting Love to fail is then they are not really Packer fans.

Very valid thought for sure!!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But the narrative is (by some), had Love not been drafted, Rodgers would have been happy and content in Green Bay and played well into his 40's.

Rodgers was pretty adamant about wanting to do exactly that before Love was drafted.

As Captain eluded to its really hard to get a player who’s effective enough to change games at #26 overall. The % is very small at Offense and Defense. Even smaller inside 2 seasons. That’s why I said it’s not the player (or the position) it’s more the later draft placing. By #26 and beyond (#30 etc) you iften get a high potential player, but rarely an immediate game changer.
Clay Mathews was the most recent outlier as he caught fire immediately, but most need a year or 2 to rise up. Even Clay cost dearly as we used 3 selections to move up.

While it's true that it's not easy to draft a game changer late in the first round taking a look at the numbers it's even more difficult to select a prospect who does less than Love has in his first three seasons in the league.

Can you please name these so called Love adversaries? Just because one did not like the pick and feel the team would have a better chance to win with AR they are not automatically hoping or predicting he will fail. I am sure there are some that are, but IMO Packer fans fall into one of these categories.
1. He will suck.
2. He will be above avg.
3. He will be good enough to win if...........................D, run game, STs, coaching, blah blah blah
4. I don't have a clue, but I hope Gute was right.
5. He will be better than Favre and Rodgers combined.

Put me down for #4.

Definitely put me down for #4 as well.

 

[OldSchool101]

Some simply cannot envision someone who wasn’t for the pick but also being a fan of the player Love is as an example which is what I fall into…fact is very few people are hoping Love sucks…IMO at least.

However I do believe a lot of Packer fans secretly want him to fail because they either hated the pick, are love drunk for Rodgers or hate Gute OR all three.

BUT there is also I believe a lot of Packer fans that are massive Love fans because they simply hate or hated Rodgers of late or always.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

That’s totally me above and many others. I didn’t like the selection, but I’m smart enough to discern between that and having to unfairly diminish the player because of my hurt feelings. My hurt but has absolutely nothing to do with Jordan

 

[OldSchool101]

From my own personal experience (next someone will try to convince me I shouldn’t have an experience like this) the bulk of those (not everyone but a good portion) not liking the Love selection have either:
1. Directly and repeatedly tried emphatically to diminish Jordan.
2. Often agreed with those in #1
3. Flip flopped once they realized they had little choice because Rodgers was out.
4. A combination of at least 2 or more of the above.

This isn’t meant for you at all Tyni I’m just sounding off

It’s called guilty by association. Birds of a feather flock together and all that. If you don’t want to be mislabeled then start by not agreeing with those that malign our QB before he’s ever had a chance. That might help, just say you hate the pick and can’t stand our QB and be bold. Matter of fact, I respect the one doing the direct maligning more than the one that sheepishly agrees with them and then attempts to deny that association as if we’re all unintelligent in here. We don’t need to be Dale Hinman, FBI profiler to see the correlation above. I know some of you guys better than my own spouse, I’ve been sparring with you longer too

 

[Deleted member 6794]

From my own personal experience (next someone will try to convince me I shouldn’t have an experience like this) the bulk of those (not everyone but a good portion) not liking the Love selection have either:
1. Directly and repeatedly tried emphatically to diminish Jordan.

I ask for the umpteenth time, please show me a single post in which a poster diminished Love. As mentioned repeatedly most posters criticizing the selection of him has nothing to do with the player at all.

3. Flip flopped once they realized they had little choice because Rodgers was out.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Rodgers was still around for another three seasons after Love was selected, wasn't he?

 

[SudsMcBucky]

I ask for the umpteenth time, please show me a single post in which a poster diminished Love. As mentioned repeatedly most posters criticizing the selection of him has nothing to do with the player at all.

This is absolutely correct. It's not hating Love the player. It's hating the selection at the actual time the pick was made. Two completely different situations.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Winner winner chicken dinner!

That’s totally me above and many others. I didn’t like the selection, but I’m smart enough to discern between that and having to unfairly diminish the player because of my hurt feelings. My hurt but has absolutely nothing to do with Jordan

I remember that draft night really well. I was all excited about Patrick Queen still being on the board as it got closer to the Packers pick. Then when they traded up, I "knew" they were selecting Queen! I about lost my sh*t when I heard the Love pick. "WTF Gute, you have a FHOF QB and you are picking a QB when our defense is in desperate need of an ILB?" Felt the same way about the Gary pick. We had just signed the Smith Brothers, WTF was Gute doing using a high pick on another OLB, that scouts said wasn't ready for the NFL?

Once I came down off of anger mountain, I read up on both Love and Gary. Listened to some pressers of Gute talking about each player. Quickly, I realized why each player was selected and the value of the picks. So far I haven't been disappointed. Gary is looking like he is shaping into a potential Pro Bowl caliber OLB and the Packers now need a starting QB, one they would not have, if Gute had not had the foresight in 2020 that the time for #12 was nearing its end. Hopefully, Love will turn into a great QB and those Packer fans that are still on top of anger mountain, will finally see the light. Even if Love doesn't pan out, I will always understand the pick and the risk of the investment into a QB, that could end up being another FHOF player.

 

[Schultz]

If Love could end up being a future HOFer does that also mean Higgins could end up being a future HOF? FTR, I also thought and wanted them to select Queen at the time. If they had gone WR, I would have understood the pick.

 

[tynimiller]

If Love could end up being a future HOFer does that also mean Higgins could end up being a future HOF? FTR, I also thought and wanted them to select Queen at the time. If they had gone WR, I would have understood the pick.

First on Higgins absolutely - either one of them have a TON of chapters left in their careers.

Queen was a thought but I was so fixated on it being Pittman I never even realized in the moment Love was even out there LOL

That is how infatuated I was with Pittman...he hasn't become the WR I personally put on him though.

 

[Schultz]

I will completely admit that after Queen I had Claypool as the WR I wanted. I felt a trade back might have been the move and still get him.

 

[milani]

From my own personal experience (next someone will try to convince me I shouldn’t have an experience like this) the bulk of those (not everyone but a good portion) not liking the Love selection have either:
1. Directly and repeatedly tried emphatically to diminish Jordan.
2. Often agreed with those in #1
3. Flip flopped once they realized they had little choice because Rodgers was out.
4. A combination of at least 2 or more of the above.

This isn’t meant for you at all Tyni I’m just sounding off

It’s called guilty by association. Birds of a feather flock together and all that. If you don’t want to be mislabeled then start by not agreeing with those that malign our QB before he’s ever had a chance. That might help, just say you hate the pick and can’t stand our QB and be bold. Matter of fact, I respect the one doing the direct maligning more than the one that sheepishly agrees with them and then attempts to deny that association as if we’re all unintelligent in here. We don’t need to be Dale Hinman, FBI profiler to see the correlation above. I know some of you guys better than my own spouse, I’ve been sparring with you longer too

I still have nightmares thinking about ALL the QBs we hoped and dreamed would succeed between Starr and Favre. It was hopeless although Lynn ****ey put up numbers with a body that went through a saw mill.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I still have nightmares thinking about ALL the QBs we hoped and dreamed would succeed between Starr and Favre.

I think just about every NFL team/fan base can say that, with not many of them having 3 QB's to talk about. Which is one of the big reasons that all 3 Green Bay HOF QB's have been "small miracles", considering how and when the Packers obtained them. I look at the last 20 or so drafts and all the QB flops that have occurred, with many of them being high picks. So if Love pans out, miracle #4 and if he doesn't, welcome to the NFL and the difficult task of finding a future HOF QB.

 

[Poppa San]

I think just about every NFL team/fan base can say that, with not many of them having 3 QB's to talk about. Which is one of the big reasons that all 3 Green Bay HOF QB's have been "small miracles", considering how and when the Packers obtained them. I look at the last 20 or so drafts and all the QB flops that have occurred, with many of them being high picks. So if Love pans out, miracle #4 and if he doesn't, welcome to the NFL and the difficult task of finding a future HOF QB.

Psst. AR12 will be the fourth Packers QB in Canton.

 

[OldSchool101]

I ask for the umpteenth time, please show me a single post in which a poster diminished Love. As mentioned repeatedly most posters criticizing the selection of him has nothing to do with the player at

@captainWIMM

“Jordan Love threw more interceptions than that in his last season playing in the MWC”

“Love leading the FBS in interceptions thrown while playing in the Mountain West conference is reason for concern as is him struggling against Power-5 opponents in limited action”

“That depends on if Love can stay ahead of Benkert on the depth chart this season”

“That was another reason selecting Love last year was a head-scratcher.season playing in the MWC”

It just occurred to me I’m not even 1% into the very first thread. This will become exceptionally long very quickly.

Chronological?

By Thread?

In Various Colors intensity representing the increasing levels of Jordan disparagement?

Just Let me know ok

 

[Schultz]

I for one am actually glad you are doing this. I am interested if (and how many) times I may show up. I do not think many if at all, but my memory is not what it used to be. One thing tho, is stating stats (and or facts) to be considered disparaging him?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Psst. AR12 will be the fourth Packers QB in Canton.

I never knew Arnie Herber.

 

[OldSchool101]

I for one am actually glad you are doing this. I am interested if (and how many) times I may show up. I do not think many if at all, but my memory is not what it used to be. One thing tho, is stating stats (and or facts) to be considered disparaging him?

I’m not here to purposely make you or anyone else look bad. Yet @captainWIMM is by and large the most distinguished Anti-Love opponent and it’s not even close. He repeatedly made this request and I’ve repeatedly looked the other way. I’m not the Jordan Love police, but his anti-Jordan posts are repetitive to the point of nauseous. Now Captain forcefully calling me out and by his own admission, repeatedly

Stats can be found both positive and negative. Yet when it’s 100% negative stats on a continuum in effort to diminish a guy (Jordan Love is human you know and he doesn’t deserve this) then it has the foul scent of being disingenuous. So the answer to that level of disdain is yes. Yes I will include those if they are consecutive across broad spectrums. I’ll tell you what, if I see even 1 positive stat offered by him I’ll include it only to honor your requests, to be fair I’ll warn you I think it’s highly doubtful though. I’m in here enough to know better.

 

[milani]

I’m not here to purposely make you or anyone else look bad. Yet @captainWIMM is by and large the most distinguished Anti-Love opponent and it’s not even close. He repeatedly made this request and I’ve repeatedly looked the other way. I’m not the Jordan Love police, but his anti-Jordan posts are repetitive to the point of nauseous. Now Captain forcefully calling me out and by his own admission, repeatedly

Stats can be found both positive and negative. Yet when it’s 100% negative stats on a continuum in effort to diminish a guy (Jordan Love is human you know and he doesn’t deserve this) then it has the foul scent of being disingenuous. So the answer to that level of disdain is yes. Yes I will include those if they are consecutive across broad spectrums. I’ll tell you what, if I see even 1 positive stat offered by him I’ll include it only to honor your requests, to be fair I’ll warn you I think it’s highly doubtful though. I’m in here enough to know better.

And even for arguments sake why criticize Love. He is just here not really by his choice. If someone wants to criticize go after those that drafted him depending on how he performs. That would be like me criticizing Adrian Klemm and William Whitaker for being the starting guards in 2005. It was not their fault they were stiffs. It was Ted Thompson's fault for putting them there. And rightfully that is who I criticized then and thereon out.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I will completely admit that after Queen I had Claypool as the WR I wanted. I felt a trade back might have been the move and still get him.

I was a big Claypool fan as well. Word out of Chicago is that he's not very self motivated and so far has been a disappointment. Who knows though, maybe going to GB would have been better for him and he's a Pro Bowler by now.

I'm a firm believer in "The Butterfly Effect". One event can change the path a person takes and ultimately effects them and those around them. Henry Ruggs doesn't get drafted by the Raiders, he may still be playing football, but more importantly, Tina Tintor and her dog are still alive.

 

[PikeBadger]

If Love could end up being a future HOFer does that also mean Higgins could end up being a future HOF? FTR, I also thought and wanted them to select Queen at the time. If they had gone WR, I would have understood the pick.

Where do YOU think that Gutekunst had Love, Queen and Higgins on his draft board? I suspect that is the answer to why we saw Gutekunst trade up 5 spots to get Love.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Where do YOU think that Gutekunst had Love, Queen and Higgins on his draft board? I suspect that is the answer to why we saw Gutekunst trade up 5 spots to get Love.

3rd round, but he saw a great opportunity to piss off Rodgers and took it.

 

[Schultz]

I was a big Claypool fan as well. Word out of Chicago is that he's not very self motivated and so far has been a disappointment. Who knows though, maybe going to GB would have been better for him and he's a Pro Bowler by now.

I'm a firm believer in "The Butterfly Effect". One event can change the path a person takes and ultimately effects them and those around them. Henry Ruggs doesn't get drafted by the Raiders, he may still be playing football, but more importantly, Tina Tintor and her dog are still alive.

Claypool started out just fine in Pitt, I don't know what happened.

 

[Schultz]

Where do YOU think that Gutekunst had Love, Queen and Higgins on his draft board? I suspect that is the answer to why we saw Gutekunst trade up 5 spots to get Love.

Hopefully he had Love much higher than anyone else on their board. I am a believer in need playing a factor when guys are close, and if you don't believe me ask Old fan, Amish and Poker, I did not consider QB a need at that time.

 

[Schultz]

@captainWIMM

“Jordan Love threw more interceptions than that in his last season playing in the MWC”

“Love leading the FBS in interceptions thrown while playing in the Mountain West conference is reason for concern as is him struggling against Power-5 opponents in limited action”

“That depends on if Love can stay ahead of Benkert on the depth chart this season”

“That was another reason selecting Love last year was a head-scratcher.season playing in the MWC”

It just occurred to me I’m not even 1% into the very first thread. This will become exceptionally long very quickly.

Chronological?

By Thread?

In Various Colors intensity representing the increasing levels of Jordan disparagement?

Just Let me know ok

IMO 1& 2 are not disparaging. 3 is. 4 I would need to see that reply in context. You have explained to us your reasoning, that is much appreciated. I guess I take into account that the individual you are speaking of almost always includes stats along with his posts. I also see that you edited your initial response. I was not going to respond until you did that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I am a believer in need playing a factor when guys are close

Yup, a no brainer for me. Which is why I believe Gute had Love pretty damn high on his board, maybe top 10-15? I don't deny that at the time, there probably wasn't a "need" at QB or at least not one that fans were aware of. That said, I think Gute thought otherwise, on need and he saw a potential franchise QB slide down the first round, to a point where he could not pass him up. I can't stress this enough. AR was 36 years old, an age that most are done with football by. So scooping up what appeared to be a guy that within 2-4 years might be ready to replace Rodgers, made sense. Those saying "but he wanted to play into his 40's" and "look at him now at 39", should keep in mind that Aaron himself said that he was 90% ready to retire after the 2022 season.

Calculated move by Gute and yes, not a popular one then or even now with some. Yes, we had "NEEDS" at other positions, but I would have been happier had actual "right now needs" be addressed in Free Agency. Rookies at most positions, especially late 1st round and beyond rookies, don't always contribute a whole lot in year 1. I look at a lot of SB winning teams and they often have older FA vets, that were signed that season. So if you are a SB contender, sign some FA's for immediate needs, but keep drafting for the future.