Comparing 2008 Packers Roster vs 2023 Packers Roster

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I understand. No matter who the Packers took in round 1 in 2020 they were not going to win the SB because they just weren't good enough in 2021 or 2022.
Justin Jefferson? Maybe gets us a SB win. Slight but more realistic chance there in 2020 or 2021 (35% etc)
Tristan Wirfs? Maybe maybe like 20-25% chance (due to Bak injury)
CeeDee Lamb?10-15% being generous

Past that your statement is correct. Lol. We would’ve had to strike Gold or Silver in that draft.
 
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milani

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Given the lack of talent in the TE room prior to the draft, I would expect Musgrave or possibly even Kraft, to be the starting TE moving forward. That isn't to say that Deguara won't see a lot of snaps either, but I don't see him getting more targets than a healthy Musgrave or Kraft.
The job is there for the taking. Lots of other teams do not have that opportunity.
 
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tynimiller

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Really the same situation at S and WR.

While Watson is pretty much assured to be starting, the 2-6 spots are up for grabs.

Strongly disagree. Doubs and Watson both are certain I believe starters - Doubs in many ways did more than even Watson last year as the room was massively more depleted and he was our WR1 without Watson or Lazard or Cobb even I believe a few games.
 

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You do not have to explain to me why Gute picked Love. Then and now I completely disagreed with the pick as I did the picks of Dillon and Deguara. All 3 have the chance to prove to be anywhere from good to great picks. Or not. Time will tell. FTR I didnt like Reagor, Ruggs, or Hamler. At that point in the draft I liked Higgins, Claypool or Pitman in that order. Go Pack.
Those wanting only immediate impact players to be drafted, should add the 2019 #12 pick, used on Rashan Gary, onto their lists. Of course, what they fail to see is how a GM thinks and how drafting for the future is just as important as drafting for the present.
 

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Strongly disagree. Doubs and Watson both are certain I believe starters - Doubs in many ways did more than even Watson last year as the room was massively more depleted and he was our WR1 without Watson or Lazard or Cobb even I believe a few games.
No doubt Doubs has a leg up on most of the other WR's. However, if both are healthy, I'd say Watson is the #1. Doubs kind of disappeared halfway through the season. That said, I think if he continues to have the offseason that it sounds like he has had, he will no doubt get a lot of playing time.
 

milani

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Really the same situation at S and WR.

While Watson is pretty much assured to be starting, the 2-6 spots are up for grabs.
Although unlike S and WR the Packers have not really had a bona-fide TE since Finley or maybe Jared Cook. Unless we want to say Tonyan.
Really the same situation at S and WR.

While Watson is pretty much assured to be starting, the 2-6 spots are up for grabs.
 
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I think I read so we here (don’t quote me) that the bulk of snaps at Slot last season came from Cobb, Lazard and Tonyan. I seem to recall Wes H. Speaking to there were like 500+ Slot snaps available to go around now to their replacements (speaking to MLF system vs 2008)

You're right about that. Cobb, Lazard and Tonyan combined to line up in the slot on a total 555 snaps last season. That accounted for 57.2% of all snaps in the slot.

Jordy, Patrick Lee and Finley were all Rookies drafted between #36-#91 overall. Driver was a regular and was going to get the bulk. Donald Lee and Jordy combined for 669 but I’m not sure what the Slot breakdown was.

Nelson and Lee combined for 154 receiving yards when lining up in the slot in 2008.

I never said 0% chance. As long as we’re comparing. Let us look inside our own house.
Jordy Nelson was selected at #36 overall by us.
2008
366 yards 2 TD’s
2009
320 yards 2 TD’s
2010
582 yards 2 TD’s

Is Jordy Nelson a bad WR? No

Nelson was the #3 or #4 wide receiver early in his career behind Driver and Jennings who both put up several consecutive 1,000 yards seasons though. The Packers were in need of a legit #2 receiver in 2020 though.

Then Tee went to arguably one of the better QB’s leaguewide and all I’ve heard so far are excuses why he can’t get off the 1000 yards per season plateau even today. If were having to make excuses (Captain) is it just possible we have serious doubts that he’s our answer for a SB victory? The truth is Tee turned into a good WR2 and I’m being generous, but he’s not a game changer at WR imo

Why on earth would anyone need to make excuses for a wide receiver putting up 1,000 yards in a season??? Especially when comparing him to a player who hasn't had any impact so far.

Those wanting only immediate impact players to be drafted, should add the 2019 #12 pick, used on Rashan Gary, onto their lists. Of course, what they fail to see is how a GM thinks and how drafting for the future is just as important as drafting for the present.

Unfortunately the Packers' front office hasn't focused on the present enough for quite some time.
 

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Those wanting only immediate impact players to be drafted, should add the 2019 #12 pick, used on Rashan Gary, onto their lists. Of course, what they fail to see is how a GM thinks and how drafting for the future is just as important as drafting for the present.
Or maybe some fans like a mix of drafting for the present as well as the future. As I have stated numerous times I like when the Packers win games. I also realize to be on the run they have been on takes a mix of present and future when drafting. IMO QB is it's own entity. Our starter was firmly entrenched, no need to trade up and reach. Also in my opinion the mix is just a little too much future over present. If they had money for FA to address present I would be more on board with the current future over present draft philosophy. FTR IMO Gute is an above average GM. Nobody is going to be perfect. I just happen to like to give my opinion on a mostly opinion based message board. I plead guilty to that.
 

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Or maybe some fans like a mix of drafting for the present as well as the future.
To be blunt, if a fan doesn't understand that, they really don't understand how to maintain long term success. I get the notion of "going all in to try and win a SB", but if doing that puts a team in a bad position for the future, I would question doing it. It takes some luck to actually win a SB and just a few key injuries can derail a season.

I too like wins and would love to win a SB as well. But I will take winning a SB once every 15 years, if it is accompanied by a lot of "successful" seasons in between. Which is really what the Packer franchise has been able to do in the last 30 or so years. Of course those 30 years were greatly aided by having back to back HOF QB's and it is my hope that Love makes that 3.
 

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Although unlike S and WR the Packers have not really had a bona-fide TE since Finley or maybe Jared Cook. Unless we want to say Tonyan.
Fully agree. Which is why I think Gute finally addressed the glaring need at TE. I get it though, under Gutes watch. Tonyan has a breakout season in 2020, then gets injured in 2021, so they really weren't sure what they had in him.
 

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Our starter was firmly entrenched, no need to trade up and reach.

I actually think that is they key part of all of this and where a lot of us differ in opinions.

While I don't think Rodgers had gotten to a point where Gute was looking for an immediate replacement, he was 36, coming off of 3 inconsistent seasons and maybe showing his decline. I also think that we all don't know the full story behind Rodgers and his relationship with the front office and coaches. We hear bits and pieces of things, but generally speaking, it didn't sound like a perfectly harmonious situation existed.

We can use hindsight to see that Rodgers wasn't declining all that much, back to back MVP seasons. We can also use that same hindsight to watch his relationship with the Packers erode. Why did Gute and the Packers extend him then, which you and a few have asked. I think they felt that Love wasn't going to be ready and the Packers were very close to winning it all, but only with Rodgers.

Fast forward to 2023. Love's development, along with an 8-9 season and Rodgers way of dealing with things, made the Packers comfortable to move on.
 
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Why on earth would anyone need to make excuses for a wide receiver putting up 1,000 yards in a season??? Especially when comparing him to a player who hasn't had any impact so far.
I literally agreed with everything you said in that post and thank you for the stats you researched.

In response to the part? I don’t know why anyone would do that, but you were the one who was defending Tee, so do some self soul searching. Sorry I could resist! :laugh:

Btw Chase regressed in 2022, so what was Tee Higgins excuse in 2020? Or 2022?

I’m not saying Tee is not a good WR. I’d even love to have him, so please don’t spin this, he might even eventually hit WR1 just not quite there yet.
Tee Higgins was not so dynamic that he could overcome our Defense or ST getting gashed. It would’ve taken more than Tee Higgins. Hold Tampa <= 21 points and then we can talk about how ~15 yards per game increase (over Lazard) takes us into a SB Champion. Captain, we can’t allow teams to come into Lambeau and score 31 points or embarrass us in ST all day and still expect to Win. Those are games that you need to get stingy in D and at least hold opponents under 20-24 points max. Then I’d agree with you.. That’s an area a WR2 can come in and make a big difference. I have nothing against Tee Higgins I even thought we might grab him at one point.
 
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milani

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So what you are saying is Gute should have drafted a defensive player instead of Love. I get it now. TIC.
Now if that would have happened when WOULD we have drafted a replacement for Rodgers? If it was in 2022 he would be an awfully green Green Bay Packer starting in 2023.
 
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To be blunt, if a fan doesn't understand that, they really don't understand how to maintain long term success. I get the notion of "going all in to try and win a SB", but if doing that puts a team in a bad position for the future, I would question doing it.

The Packers selecting a player at a different position in the first round of the 2020 draft would hardly have qualified as going all-in though.

We can use hindsight to see that Rodgers wasn't declining all that much, back to back MVP seasons. We can also use that same hindsight to watch his relationship with the Packers erode.

You ignore that drafting Love was the reason the relationship between the Packers and Rodgers eroded though.

In response to the part? I don’t know why anyone would do that, but you were the one who was defending Tee, so do some self soul searching. Sorry I could resist! :laugh:

Btw Chase regressed in 2022, so what was Tee Higgins excuse in 2020? Or 2022?

I’m not saying Tee is not a good WR. I’d even love to have him, so please don’t spin this, he might even eventually hit WR1 just not quite there yet.
Tee Higgins was not so dynamic that he could overcome our Defense or ST getting gashed. It would’ve taken more than Tee Higgins. Hold Tampa <= 21 points and then we can talk about how ~15 yards per game increase (over Lazard) takes us into a SB Champion. Captain, we can’t allow teams to come into Lambeau and score 31 points or embarrass us in ST all day and still expect to Win. Those are games that you need to get stingy in D and at least hold opponents under 20-24 points max. Then I’d agree with you.. That’s an area a WR2 can come in and make a big difference. I have nothing against Tee Higgins I even thought we might grab him at one point.

I'm sorry but Higgins has averaged more than 1,000 receiving yards per season since entering the league in 2020. I have never suggested he's one of the best receivers in the game but he's an excellent #2 who would have been a significant upgrade over everyone the Packers had over the past three years behind Adams. There's no excuse needed for his performance though.

I agree the Packers can't allow teams to score 31 points in the NFCCG at Lambeau or give up a blocked punt returned for a touchdown in a close, low scoring game in the playoffs. But they were close enough in both games to have a chance at winning them. It's possible that having Higgins on the field would have been good enough to score enough points to do that. As I have mentioned repeatedly I don't know if it would have been good enough but neither do you that it wouldn't have.

As a side note, Higgins averaged 28 yards more per game than Lazard did in 2020 and '21.
 

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Now if that would have happened when WOULD we have drafted a replacement for Rodgers? If it was in 2022 he would be an awfully green Green Bay Packer starting in 2023.
But the narrative is (by some), had Love not been drafted, Rodgers would have been happy and content in Green Bay and played well into his 40's. :rolleyes: So by that theory, the only reason Rodgers is not a Packer, is that he just couldn't get over being jilted by Gute during the 2020 draft.
 

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Now if that would have happened when WOULD we have drafted a replacement for Rodgers? If it was in 2022 he would be an awfully green Green Bay Packer starting in 2023.
As Mr. Mom Michael Keaton might say: 2020-2021-2022 whatever it takes.
 
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So what you are saying is Gute should have drafted a defensive player instead of Love. I get it now. TIC.
Actually that would’ve had about the same effect. As Captain eluded to its really hard to get a player who’s effective enough to change games at #26 overall. The % is very small at Offense and Defense. Even smaller inside 2 seasons. That’s why I said it’s not the player (or the position) it’s more the later draft placing. By #26 and beyond (#30 etc) you iften get a high potential player, but rarely an immediate game changer.
Clay Mathews was the most recent outlier as he caught fire immediately, but most need a year or 2 to rise up. Even Clay cost dearly as we used 3 selections to move up.
 
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milani

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But the narrative is (by some), had Love not been drafted, Rodgers would have been happy and content in Green Bay and played well into his 40's. :rolleyes: So by that theory, the only reason Rodgers is not a Packer, is that he just couldn't get over being jilted by Gute during the 2020 draft.
I do not believe he would have been happy nor Gute unless the team won a SB in that window. And the cap issues would have still been there and at this point except for the hurt feelings the Packers would still be looking to move on kind of like Brady but a few seasons earlier. At which point we would be floundering like New England is now with no real heir to Brady in a division in which 3 other teams are better than yours. Garropolo could have been the Brady replacement but he was there too soon. We could argue that Love got here too soon, too late, or at just the right time. If he is to succeed this is the right time.
 
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I think we could be shaky for 1st or 2nd Qtr of the season. I also think Love is going to look good. Maybe Not great but good or better than his adversaries project on him. One guy said he’d win 1 game. I think our 4th Round Rookie can Win more than 1 game. I think our Defense can win 1 game, so that’s just insulting. Our chances of 1 Win are about the same as 15 Wins, I wouldn’t lay a $$ bet on either wild projection
 
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Can you please name these so called Love adversaries? Just because one did not like the pick and feel the team would have a better chance to win with AR they are not automatically hoping or predicting he will fail. I am sure there are some that are, but IMO Packer fans fall into one of these categories.
1. He will suck.
2. He will be above avg.
3. He will be good enough to win if...........................D, run game, STs, coaching, blah blah blah
4. I don't have a clue, but I hope Gute was right.
5. He will be better than Favre and Rodgers combined.

Put me down for #4.
 
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tynimiller

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Can you please name these so called Love adversaries? Just because one did not like the pick and feel the team would have a better chance to win with AR they are not automatically hoping or predicting he will fail. I am sure there are some that are, but IMO Packer fans fall into one of these categories.
1. He will suck.
2. He will be above avg.
3. He will be good enough to win if...........................D, run game, STs, coaching, blah blah blah
4. I don't have a clue, but I hope Gute was right.
5. He will be better than Favre and Rodgers combined.

Put me down for #4.

Some simply cannot envision someone who wasn’t for the pick but also being a fan of the player Love is as an example which is what I fall into…fact is very few people are hoping Love sucks…IMO at least.

However I do believe a lot of Packer fans secretly want him to fail because they either hated the pick, are love drunk for Rodgers or hate Gute OR all three.

BUT there is also I believe a lot of Packer fans that are massive Love fans because they simply hate or hated Rodgers of late or always.
 

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