Comparing 2008 Packers Roster vs 2023 Packers Roster

[milani]

I

I'll play.
O #12
D #8
ST #10

I have the offense as above average, because even though Love will make some mistakes due to lack of experience, the tape breakdown shows that he can accurately read his keys, go through the progression and deliver an accurate ball to the open target on time. That's enough to make this a solid offense, with no hero ball needed. Without all the obscure hand signals from Rodgers to remember, receivers can just focus on the play.

The defense has a ridiculous amount of draft capital spent on it. If it's not top 10, the DC must be sent packing.

Special teams are ascending (when's the last time we could say that), and just having Nixon returning kicks the whole season is worth a jump of several spots. If the new kicker is decent this will be a good unit.

I will go with: O# 18
D# 16
ST# 14
D will be on the field a lot and I believe we will lose the turnover battle for the year.
Special teams will be better in some areas but still a lot of question marks. If we punt more and return kickoffs more we should get a real test.

 

[PikeBadger]

well, he is

But I still don't get why everyone thinks this is such a negative? Seriously. I believe it to be supremely overblown by many. For pretty much his entire time here it's been, do your work, work hard and get looks. Don't do your work, don't work hard, do the wrong things, you don't get looks.

you run your offense your way I guess, I'll take the prior way. Drops have never mattered, in fact if you were one of those working hard and doing what you're supposed to, he has a long history of going right back to that person in a game.

The whole "trust" thing I think is seriously overblown. it all boils down to doing what you're supposed to do in the offense. Period. What's a QB, any QB supposed to do? Throw it to guys NOT doing their jobs? Jordy had a great example in a fairly recent sit down I saw with him where he missed a read and Rodgers tossed the ball out and went sailing over everyone's head in the regular season. He said he knew he'd never make that mistake again, oh BTW, they saw the same thing in the Super Bowl and he remembered the read and it went for a TD.

It's not like it's some secret society and you have to gut a goat on the alter or something to have this mystic trust meld with the QB. It's just do your job and work.

Rodgers' strength has always been his ability to recognize things instantly and adjust accordingly with the offense. If there aren't WR's that can be ready for that the QB isn't going to look at that good. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't even matter the position. More often than not, if those around you aren't doing their jobs within the offense or defense, you're going to look worse as well. When you're anticipating gap A or B to be open because of how the offensive line is supposed to be blocking as a RB, but they block it completely different, most times you're not going to win as a RB regardless of how talented.

ROdgers and his new WR's have work to do, no doubt about that and people expecting just seamless transition and 4600 yards and 50 TD's are likely to be very disappointed by years end.

Hmmm.... I must have hit a tender nerve. There is no denying his status. I just believe his self awareness of his status sometimes gets in the way of adapting to changing circumstances around him.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'll play.
O #12
D #8
ST #10

I have the offense as above average, because even though Love will make some mistakes due to lack of experience, the tape breakdown shows that he can accurately read his keys, go through the progression and deliver an accurate ball to the open target on time. That's enough to make this a solid offense, with no hero ball needed. Without all the obscure hand signals from Rodgers to remember, receivers can just focus on the play.

The defense has a ridiculous amount of draft capital spent on it. If it's not top 10, the DC must be sent packing.

Special teams are ascending (when's the last time we could say that), and just having Nixon returning kicks the whole season is worth a jump of several spots. If the new kicker is decent this will be a good unit.

I'm admittedly more nervous about the wide receivers and tight ends inconsistent play and penalties from those groups putting Love and LaFleur in bad down and distance situations. I think Love is going to be fine for the most part in decent down and distance situations.
Totally agree with your defense assessment. It's totally on the defensive coaches this season. There are no excuses that could possibly save them imo.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'll play.
O #12
D #8
ST #10

I will go with: O# 18
D# 16
ST# 14

I'll play too

Offense: #26
Defense: #8
ST: #11

Very young receiving group, Love being a first year starter. The running game will be the Packers bread and butter, but the passing game will be inconsistent and lead to turnovers. Teams will stack the box to stop the run and intimidate Love, lots to learn for the offense this season.

 

[OldSchool101]

We picked up James Jones that season. He helped but he was a step slower than his early years. And we did not use Adams the way we did later.

Yes. The main point of all my rambling is that Love has near or less proven receivers than going into 2015. Our most tenured veterans at WR are Watson, Doubs and Toure and put up 1,118 Yards and 11 TD’s receiving last season.
VS
Cobb, Jones and Davante put up 2,339 yards and 21 TD’s receiving in 2014 (season leading up to 2015). Might as well be an NFL level vs College level comparison. But James Jones and Randall Cobb and Davante were all suddenly washed up severely injured and of course what worse is that Jordy missed out.
Rodgers apologists can all Cry me a River of excuses.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'll play.
O #12
D #8
ST #10

I have the offense as above average, because even though Love will make some mistakes due to lack of experience, the tape breakdown shows that he can accurately read his keys, go through the progression and deliver an accurate ball to the open target on time. That's enough to make this a solid offense, with no hero ball needed. Without all the obscure hand signals from Rodgers to remember, receivers can just focus on the play.

The defense has a ridiculous amount of draft capital spent on it. If it's not top 10, the DC must be sent packing.

Special teams are ascending (when's the last time we could say that), and just having Nixon returning kicks the whole season is worth a jump of several spots. If the new kicker is decent this will be a good unit.

I’d be elated if we did that. That’s a Divisional level (4-5th seed) type team.

 

[MadScientist]

I'm admittedly more nervous about the wide receivers and tight ends inconsistent play and penalties from those groups putting Love and LaFleur in bad down and distance situations. I think Love is going to be fine for the most part in decent down and distance situations.
Totally agree with your defense assessment. It's totally on the defensive coaches this season. There are no excuses that could possibly save them imo.

I wouldn't expect much in the way of penalties from WR's and TE's in the passing game. There might be a few on the rookie TE's in the running game, but the bigger concern is not getting their blocking assignments correct. I think the MLF scheme, freed from the Rodgers audibles and hand signals will help the inexperienced receivers, but there is still a big learning curve.

 

[MadScientist]

I’d be elated if we did that. That’s a Divisional level (4-5th seed) type team.

After watching the breakdown of Love by Kurt Warner, I'm convinced that the Packers can be decent this year. Too inexperienced for world beating but good enough for 9-10 wins. Winning the division would not surprise me because the division is pretty weak, but they won't go deep due to the inexperience. The real window will open for this team starting in 2024.

 

[OldSchool101]

After watching the breakdown of Love by Kurt Warner, I'm convinced that the Packers can be decent this year. Too inexperienced for world beating but good enough for 9-10 wins. Winning the division would not surprise me because the division is pretty weak, but they won't go deep due to the inexperience. The real window will open for this team starting in 2024.

I just saw that! Kurt kinda burned Jordan in his first evaluation a year or so ago. That new breakdown was a 180 degree turn.
Jordan had at least 3 passes that were in that 20-40 yard range that were dropped that were absolutely perfection. He had another throw to Cobb that was a TD drop, but it was clearly Pass interference on replay. The defender was draped on Cobb while the ball was 6 feet away. Someone in that officiating crew either 1.got paid off or 2.needs to renew their contact prescription or
3. Grew up in Philly.

 

[Team Ronny]

Yes. The main point of all my rambling is that Love has near or less proven receivers than going into 2015. Our most tenured veterans at WR are Watson, Doubs and Toure and put up 1,118 Yards and 11 TD’s receiving last season.
VS
Cobb, Jones and Davante put up 2,339 yards and 21 TD’s receiving in 2014 (season leading up to 2015). Might as well be an NFL level vs College level comparison. But James Jones and Randall Cobb and Davante were all suddenly washed up severely injured and of course what worse is that Jordy missed out.
Rodgers apologists can all Cry me a River of excuses.

James Jones was very underrated in his younger days..yeah..he had some drops..but when he was on..he was on!

 

[pacmaniac]

Not really. I think he was speaking to the potential of Jordan and considering we just saw a pretty mediocre 2023 performance by Rodgers. He said he didn’t see a big difference, maybe he sees first hand what you and I and others think is impossible.
He said he didn’t see a big difference if I recall? Rodgers ranked 14th last season. I’d laugh if Love is anywhere in the teens ranking because we’d all be wrong and Doubs will look brilliant.

Yeah, Doubs saying that Love is as good as the 2022 Rodgers isn't actually saying much, since the 2022 Rodgers was pretty average. I see 8 wins based on that, plus maybe a couple more if the defense improves.

 

[rmontro]

Yeah, Doubs saying that Love is as good as the 2022 Rodgers isn't actually saying much, since the 2022 Rodgers was pretty average. I see 8 wins based on that, plus maybe a couple more if the defense improves.

Just so we know what we are talking about, Rodgers was 11th in yards, 7th in TDs, and 17th in passer rating last year. I'm actually a little surprised Rodgers was as high as 7th in TDs.

 

[Schultz]

IMO Love has a chance to be in that 17th passer rating range but it will be a tough ask to match yards and TDS, unless they are behind all the time and have to throw. That could lead to a long season. Hopefully the D keeps them in most games and Love is not forced out of the game plan due to the score.

 

[pacmaniac]

Just so we know what we are talking about, Rodgers was 11th in yards, 7th in TDs, and 17th in passer rating last year. I'm actually a little surprised Rodgers was as high as 7th in TDs.

And tied for 7th in INTs as well.

 

[OldSchool101]

IMO Love has a chance to be in that 17th passer rating range but it will be a tough ask to match yards and TDS, unless they are behind all the time and have to throw. That could lead to a long season. Hopefully the D keeps them in most games and Love is not forced out of the game plan due to the score.

That’s right. I’d call that a huge success as far as 2023. It’s logical we could see a bit more running that could lower his yards ranking.
I suppose we should be looking at Comp % and TD:INT ratio and maybe Yards per target this season. Maybe Matt let’s him go full throttle idk

 

[OldSchool101]

If it’s true that Musgrave is working regular with the first team, I suspect he could get involved early and often as a receiving target. I suspect we’ll press Musgrave and Reed a little faster than our typical 2nd Rounders might see in a Rookie season. Particularly if Defenses disrespect us and bring 5-6 regular.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Totally agree. Rodgers and McCarthy did a very poor job imo of adapting to that catastrophic injury. That was the time frame when many of the knee jerk fans on this forum were proclaiming Adams a bust and were calling for his release, Lol.
This also became the time where I started to believe that Rodgers was extremely slow in adapting his thought processes to changing circumstances.

I don't think that a quarterback and head coach can make up for losing an elite wide receiver only weeks before the start of the season solely by adapting their thought process.

Yeah, if we're a run first team, and opponents key on the run, and Love doesn't make them pay for it. Honestly, I was a little disappointed in Dillon last year. He's supposed to be our short yardage guy, but it seemed like Jones was just as good or better at it, although I'm not sure if the stats support that, it was just an impression. Plus Dillon was supposed to run over people, and I didn't think we saw enough of that.

Jones averaged 5.00 yards a carry on runs with three or less yards to go and converted 22 of 32 (68.75%) attempts into a first down. Dillon only averaged 3.34 yards per attempt but had a similar percentage of runs resulting in a first down (26-38, 68.42%).

Sure. Rodgers still had far more proven Receiving targets in 2015 than Jordan has in 2023. If anyone should be upset about not having proven weapons it should be Jordan

I definitely agree that this year's receiving corps doesn't seem to be as talented as the one Rodgers had at his disposal in 2015. That's another reason why I fully expect the offense to struggle.

Not really. I think he was speaking to the potential of Jordan and considering we just saw a pretty mediocre 2023 performance by Rodgers. He said he didn’t see a big difference, maybe he sees first hand what you and I and others think is impossible.
He said he didn’t see a big difference if I recall? Rodgers ranked 14th last season. I’d laugh if Love is anywhere in the teens ranking because we’d all be wrong and Doubs will look brilliant.

Even if Love puts up similar numbers I guarantee there's a huge difference being around a HOF quarterback in his 15th season as the starter compared to a first year starter.

I have the offense as above average, because even though Love will make some mistakes due to lack of experience, the tape breakdown shows that he can accurately read his keys, go through the progression and deliver an accurate ball to the open target on time.

I would be interested in seeing that tape that suggests Love is capable of doing all of that on a regular basis against NFL defenses that don't play prevent defense.

I think the MLF scheme, freed from the Rodgers audibles and hand signals will help the inexperienced receivers, but there is still a big learning curve.

It's mind-boggling there are truly fans suggesting Rodgers' ability to read a defense and make changes based on it at the LOS was a bad thing.

IMO Love has a chance to be in that 17th passer rating range but it will be a tough ask to match yards and TDS, unless they are behind all the time and have to throw. That could lead to a long season. Hopefully the D keeps them in most games and Love is not forced out of the game plan due to the score.

In my opinion Love might be able to match the yards Rodgers put up last season. I fully expect him to struggle more with turnovers though resulting in his passer rating to drop though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If it’s true that Musgrave is working regular with the first team, I suspect he could get involved early and often as a receiving target. I suspect we’ll press Musgrave and Reed a little faster than our typical 2nd Rounders might see in a Rookie season. Particularly if Defenses disrespect us and bring 5-6 regular.

Given the lack of talent in the TE room prior to the draft, I would expect Musgrave or possibly even Kraft, to be the starting TE moving forward. That isn't to say that Deguara won't see a lot of snaps either, but I don't see him getting more targets than a healthy Musgrave or Kraft.

 

[Schultz]

Yeah, I agree the #42 & #78 picks in the draft could have an impact as rookies and even more so by their 2nd season. I am also thinking Reed a WR picked at #50 will be the same. Somewhere between the impact Watson, pick #34 and Doubs, pick # 132 had as rookies. IMO it only makes sense those 2 should have even more of an impact this year.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yeah, I agree the #42 & #78 picks in the draft could have an impact as rookies and even more so by their 2nd season. I am also thinking Reed a WR picked at #50 will be the same. Somewhere between the impact Watson, pick #34 and Doubs, pick # 132 had as rookies. IMO it only makes sense those 2 should have even more of an impact this year.

That. Plus Reed really doesn’t have much competition. I think I read so we here (don’t quote me) that the bulk of snaps at Slot last season came from Cobb, Lazard and Tonyan. I seem to recall Wes H. Speaking to there were like 500+ Slot snaps available to go around now to their replacements (speaking to MLF system vs 2008)
If we go back to 2008, those Slot snaps were going to more entrenched starters.
Oddly because of similarity,
Jordy, Patrick Lee and Finley were all Rookies drafted between #36-#91 overall. Driver was a regular and was going to get the bulk. Donald Lee and Jordy combined for 669 but I’m not sure what the Slot breakdown was.
We don’t really have that scenario in 2023, she’s Wide open compared to even those Rookies in 2008

 

[Schultz]

Great post. It does make me wonder why you are so adamant about posters who see the possibility, not the certainty, or even the probability, but the possibility that a #30 pick (T. Higgins) and a #135 pick, let's say LaDarius Sneed could have helped the Pack reach another SB.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Great post. It does make me wonder why you are so adamant about posters who see the possibility, not the certainty, or even the probability, but the possibility that a #30 pick (T. Higgins) and a #135 pick, let's say LaDarius Sneed could have helped the Pack reach another SB.

Simply because you can use hindsight and say that same thing about pretty much every pick. I haven't see one poster talk about how the Packers should have traded up to take Reagor or Ruggs. Why didn't they take Hamler in the 2nd round? Doesn't have to be round 1, 2 or 3. "Why didn't the Packers take this player", has been around forever. Some just keep bringing it up when it comes to Love, because they fail to understand the value that Gute saw in Love and apparently still sees.

 

[OldSchool101]

Great post. It does make me wonder why you are so adamant about posters who see the possibility, not the certainty, or even the probability, but the possibility that a #30 pick (T. Higgins) and a #135 pick, let's say LaDarius Sneed could have helped the Pack reach another SB.

I never said 0% chance. As long as we’re comparing. Let us look inside our own house.
Jordy Nelson was selected at #36 overall by us.
2008
366 yards 2 TD’s
2009
320 yards 2 TD’s
2010
582 yards 2 TD’s

Is Jordy Nelson a bad WR? No

You wanted to reach a Little for Tee (so did I considered him justified at around #30 overall) but recall that no other team did so. You heard it right, ALL 32 teams passed on Tee Higgins on Day1. Now you wait until 2023 to play GM in a redraft? Are all 32 GM’s wrong? No
Then Tee went to arguably one of the better QB’s leaguewide and all I’ve heard so far are excuses why he can’t get off the 1000 yards per season plateau even today. If were having to make excuses (Captain) is it just possible we have serious doubts that he’s our answer for a SB victory? The truth is Tee turned into a good WR2 and I’m being generous, but he’s not a game changer at WR imo

We can’t wait for 4 seasons to get WR1 production in a win now and thus far Tee is NOT a WR1. He’s a solid WR2. Gutey guessed correctly, he already had Davante and a pretty good WR in Lazard. Tee was not going to take us over the top and overcome 3 phases of shortcomings. Very very little chance.
Is it possible? Sure. Like 3-5% chance. But now you pay the price for playing Roulette.

You would’ve been better off arguing for Jefferson at #20 ish in a hard trade up. He’s a game changer. I’d buy that Davante (AP1,AP1,AP1)+ Jefferson (AP2,AP2,AP1)combo? That’s lethal, which CB2 covers who? In a do over I’d trade my 2nd/3rd/4th for that. 60% chance we’d make an appearance, 50/50 we’d have a Lombardi. Btw that 2021 contest in the tundra skewed the pass, a slight upgrade at WR doesn’t overcome 9 degrees and windy. Nor does it overcome our horrific ST units. You’re only legitimate argument was 2020 and it’s a longshot. I never said 0% just terrible odds.

 

[Schultz]

Simply because you can use hindsight and say that same thing about pretty much every pick. I haven't see one poster talk about how the Packers should have traded up to take Reagor or Ruggs. Why didn't they take Hamler in the 2nd round? Doesn't have to be round 1, 2 or 3. "Why didn't the Packers take this player", has been around forever. Some just keep bringing it up when it comes to Love, because they fail to understand the value that Gute saw in Love and apparently still sees.

You do not have to explain to me why Gute picked Love. Then and now I completely disagreed with the pick as I did the picks of Dillon and Deguara. All 3 have the chance to prove to be anywhere from good to great picks. Or not. Time will tell. FTR I didnt like Reagor, Ruggs, or Hamler. At that point in the draft I liked Higgins, Claypool or Pitman in that order. Go Pack.

 

[Schultz]

I never said 0% chance. As long as we’re comparing. Let us look inside our own house.
Jordy Nelson was selected at #36 overall by us.
2008
366 yards 2 TD’s
2009
320 yards 2 TD’s
2010
582 yards 2 TD’s

Is Jordy Nelson a bad WR? No

You wanted to reach a Little for Tee (so did I considered him justified at around #30 overall) but recall that no other team did so. You heard it right, ALL 32 teams passed on Tee Higgins on Day1. Now you wait until 2023 to play GM in a redraft? Are all 32 GM’s wrong? No
Then Tee went to arguably one of the better QB’s leaguewide and all I’ve heard so far are excuses why he can’t get off the 1000 yards per season plateau even today. If were having to make excuses (Captain) is it just possible we have serious doubts that he’s our answer for a SB victory? The truth is Tee turned into a good WR2 and I’m being generous, but he’s not a game changer at WR imo

We can’t wait for 4 seasons to get WR1 production in a win now and thus far Tee is NOT a WR1. He’s a solid WR2. Gutey guessed correctly, he already had Davante and a pretty good WR in Lazard. Tee was not going to take us over the top and overcome 3 phases of shortcomings. Very very little chance.
Is it possible? Sure. Like 3-5% chance. But now you pay the price for playing Roulette.

You would’ve been better off arguing for Jefferson at #20 ish in a hard trade up. He’s a game changer. I’d buy that Davante (AP1,AP1,AP1)+ Jefferson (AP2,AP2,AP1)combo? That’s lethal, which CB2 covers who? In a do over I’d trade my 2nd/3rd/4th for that. 60% chance we’d make an appearance, 50/50 we’d have a Lombardi. Btw that 2021 contest in the tundra skewed the pass, a slight upgrade at WR doesn’t overcome 9 degrees and windy. Nor does it overcome our horrific ST units. You’re only legitimate argument was 2020 and it’s a longshot. I never said 0% just terrible odds.

I understand. No matter who the Packers took in round 1 in 2020 they were not going to win the SB because they just weren't good enough in 2021 or 2022.