Brown traded to Raiders

[sschind]

With all the regard to him quitting the story I heard from AB or his agent was that he had indicated all week he wasn't going to be able to play on Sunday but then he went to Tomlin on Saturday and told him he thought he might be able to play and Tomlin said no. If that is the case I wouldn't say he quit. I'd put that on Tomlin. Leaving the game early was not a good thing to do but if your coach is the one who wouldn't let you play (or try to play) again, its frustration and in some ways I can't blame him much. Its not like he retired at halftime of a game he started Now that is quitting.

I don't know what is true or not but that is one version of what happened that I heard.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

"Significant" draft capital isn't a second or third round pick when it's being spent too acquire the inarguable best WR of the past 5 years.

Is it guaranteed to work out? Nope, but if it does it's ONE move that immediately makes the Packers a Super Bowl contender next year. No other combination of moves will achieve that same goal.

And this isn't even a big risk. If he's a problem there is ZERO cap hit to cutting or treatin him. You give up a second or third and he doesn't work? I GUARANTEE another team will be willing to trade a fourth a fifth to the Packers to get him.

A second round pick is significant draft capital, just consider the Packers drafted Adams in that round.

How did having two elite receivers work out for the Steelers last season??? If memory serves correctly that didn't make them a Super Bowl contender but they missed the playoffs as well.

I guarantee that if the Packers acquire Brown and decide to move on from him there won't be any other team interested in trading for him.

 

[Croak]

So you think he is gonna like Aaron Rodgers?

Certainly makes one wonder.

 

[Mondio]

With all the regard to him quitting the story I heard from AB or his agent was that he had indicated all week he wasn't going to be able to play on Sunday but then he went to Tomlin on Saturday and told him he thought he might be able to play and Tomlin said no. If that is the case I wouldn't say he quit. I'd put that on Tomlin. Leaving the game early was not a good thing to do but if your coach is the one who wouldn't let you play (or try to play) again, its frustration and in some ways I can't blame him much. Its not like he retired at halftime of a game he started Now that is quitting.

I don't know what is true or not but that is one version of what happened that I heard.

I had read a similar version, sounds an awful lot like this guy Marty I knew.

They can sanitize it however they want.

 

[brandon2348]

I had read a similar version, sounds an awful lot like this guy Marty I knew.

They can sanitize it however they want.

Martellus Bennett played for 5 teams in 9 years. Antonio Brown has been with the same one over that time. On top of that it is well known that Antonio Brown works as hard as anyone training to become the best. Antonio Brown is going to the HOF and Marty B is not.

I don't see the comparison. This quitter thing has been blown out of control by the media.

 

[brandon2348]

A second round pick is significant draft capital, just consider the Packers drafted Adams in that round.

How did having two elite receivers work out for the Steelers last season??? If memory serves correctly that didn't make them a Super Bowl contender but they missed the playoffs as well.

I guarantee that if the Packers acquire Brown and decide to move on from him there won't be any other team interested in trading for him.

Your leaving out these ones though. Sorry but I do not trust the Packers to "draft" a player in the second round as significant as Brown.

Quinten Rollins
Jason Spriggs
Josh Jones
Josh Jackson
Devante Adams


Adding Brown alone does not make us a Super Bowl Champion but with the right supplemental moves along with acquiring him certainly puts us in a better position then we are in now with that potential.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Your leaving out these ones though. Sorry but I do not trust the Packers to "draft" a player in the second round as significant as Brown.

Quinten Rollins
Jason Spriggs
Josh Jones
Josh Jackson
Devante Adams

Adding Brown alone does not make us a Super Bowl Champion but with the right supplemental moves along with acquiring him certainly puts us in a better position then we are in now with that potential.

The Packers definitely have missed on several second round picks as well but there's no doubt an early day two selection should be considered significant draft capital.

As has been mentioned several times this offseason it might make sense for teams that are one move away from being a legit Super Bowl to trade for Brown.

With the Packers having several more pressing needs there's no reason to take that risk though as the draft pick(s) and cap space necessary to acquire him are better spend on multiple players.

 

[brandon2348]

The Packers definitely have missed on several second round picks as well but there's no doubt an early day two selection should be considered significant draft capital.

As has been mentioned several times this offseason it might make sense for teams that are one move away from being a legit Super Bowl to trade for Brown.

With the Packers having several more pressing needs there's no reason to take that risk though as the draft pick(s) and cap space necessary to acquire him are better spend on multiple players.

We cannot move in rebuild mode here with a soon to be 36y/o QB with injuries piling up. The Packers can make the necessary moves to be contenders and teams in the past have proven it(example Saints or Colts)

The last thing we can afford is another "re-do" trying to build some championship defense. It just isn't in the cards. We need to make moves that make up for multiple roster deficiencies and Antonio Brow would be a step in that direction.

 

[brandon2348]

Pretty soon there will be nothing left to risk.

 

[Stanger37]

We cannot move in rebuild mode here with a soon to be 36y/o QB with injuries piling up. The Packers can make the necessary moves to be contenders and teams in the past have proven it(example Saints or Colts)

The last thing we can afford is another "re-do" trying to build some championship defense. It just isn't in the cards. We need to make moves that make up for multiple roster deficiencies and Antonio Brow would be a step in that direction.

I think I would be more on board if this was next season. Packers would have another year of Pettine defense, which is another year of development with the young guys, 4 picks in the first 76 picks. MLF 2nd year with Rodgers and the offense. I think there are too many questions with THIS season to throw in such a wild card in AB. So again, if this was 2020 season, I think this would be a dream scenario for the chance to add him to the roster. Too much to risk right now. It's all timing.

 

[Mondio]

I think I would be more on board if this was next season. Packers would have another year of Pettine defense, which is another year of development with the young guys, 4 picks in the first 76 picks. MLF 2nd year with Rodgers and the offense. I think there are too many questions with THIS season to throw in such a wild card in AB. So again, if this was 2020 season, I think this would be a dream scenario for the chance to add him to the roster. Too much to risk right now. It's all timing.

That's a great point. The entire staff outside of Pettine is new. We have no idea how this team will line up or even how the current players respond to what we're doing. This team has more than a hole at WR and Rodgers is locked up for the long haul. They didn't sign him to that extension to blow it all now.

Sure it could work but those many variables usually end up in disaster not championships. MaLF doesn't even really know what kind of team he has yet, he hasn't coached them a single day. They need to get their feet under them and get some new young players to go forward with.

 

[brandon2348]

I think I would be more on board if this was next season. Packers would have another year of Pettine defense, which is another year of development with the young guys, 4 picks in the first 76 picks. MLF 2nd year with Rodgers and the offense. I think there are too many questions with THIS season to throw in such a wild card in AB. So again, if this was 2020 season, I think this would be a dream scenario for the chance to add him to the roster. Too much to risk right now. It's all timing.

These type of opportunities don't come around "every year" is where your missing the ball. AB has plenty tread left on his tire so with his contract he falls under a "3 year plan" with a team friendly deal. If 2020 is your "Golden Year" then best to have AB work with Rodgers for a year leading up.

What's funny is these "GOLDEN YEAR CRYSTAL BALL THEORIES" never usually work out with so many moving parts of building a championship team. "TIME KILLS DEALS". We have go heavy every year in the last years of Rodgers career like it or not.

 

[Stanger37]

These type of opportunities don't come around "every year" is where your missing the ball. AB has plenty tread left on his tire so with his contract he falls under a "3 year plan" with a team friendly deal. If 2020 is your "Golden Year" then best to have AB work with Rodgers for a year leading up.

What's funny is these "GOLDEN YEAR CRYSTAL BALL THEORIES" never usually work out with so many moving parts of building a championship team. "TIME KILLS DEALS". We have go heavy every year in the last years of Rodgers career like it or not.

I don't totally disagree with you. But there are too many questions marks and holes right now in my opinion. AB across the field from Adams SOUNDS great, on paper there may not be a better 1-2 punch. But like I stated in this thread a few pages back. AB is 5'10" 180lbs and will be 31 by the time the season starts. What happens to his production when he slows down a tad? He isn't a big WR like Fitz, Julio, Green, Evans, or Anquan Boldin was at the end of his career that let him prolong his playing. I don't want to discredit AB by any means, but his quickness and speed is a huge reason for his production.

So Packers bring him in THIS year, first year with MLF and they go maybe 8-8, 9-7, just miss the playoffs but looked promising for the start of a new era in Green Bay. Now AB is 32 and he lost a step, not getting nearly as much separation and he is just a mediocre WR now that is getting paid 12mil a year putting up stats that someone the Packers drafted in the 3-4 round could have put up for almost free. Look how fast DJax fell off. I know they're not the same player, but speed kills for as long as it lasts.

 

[Pkrjones]

We cannot move in rebuild mode here with a soon to be 36y/o QB with injuries piling up... The last thing we can afford is another "re-do" trying to build some championship defense.

Since 2011 the Packers have had a Top-5 offense 4 times and a Top-10 offense another (2013). They were knocked-out of the playoffs 3 times by a Top-3 Defense, and the other 2 times our Defense was ranked 22 & 25 and couldn't stop a Top-10 offense ('11 NYG & '16 Atl).

Doesn't matter if the offense is loaded and Top-3 if the defense isn't at least in the Top-10 GB won't make noise in the playoffs. Gute needs to use Free Agency AND the draft to shore-up BOTH sides of the ball. Burning 1/3 of the cap AND a day-2 draft pick on AB isn't good use of GB's assets ($ & picks). Gute needs to effectively bring in a few FA's to plug glaring holes and hit on 2/3 of his picks to both play now AND be core players for future years, IMHO.

 

[brandon2348]

That's a great point. The entire staff outside of Pettine is new. We have no idea how this team will line up or even how the current players respond to what we're doing. This team has more than a hole at WR and Rodgers is locked up for the long haul. They didn't sign him to that extension to blow it all now.

Sure it could work but those many variables usually end up in disaster not championships. MaLF doesn't even really know what kind of team he has yet, he hasn't coached them a single day. They need to get their feet under them and get some new young players to go forward with.

Seriously? He has been coaching in the league awhile and should know what we have from a talent stand point. He knows what Rodgers is and knows we were 6-9-1. Once again if it's gonna take him a year to just figure out what we have then we got the wrong guy.

 

[brandon2348]

I don't totally disagree with you. But there are too many questions marks and holes right now in my opinion. AB across the field from Adams SOUNDS great, on paper there may not be a better 1-2 punch. But like I stated in this thread a few pages back. AB is 5'10" 180lbs and will be 31 by the time the season starts. What happens to his production when he slows down a tad? He isn't a big WR like Fitz, Julio, Green, Evans, or Anquan Boldin was at the end of his career that let him prolong his playing. I don't want to discredit AB by any means, but his quickness and speed is a huge reason for his production.

So Packers bring him in THIS year, first year with MLF and they go maybe 8-8, 9-7, just miss the playoffs but looked promising for the start of a new era in Green Bay. Now AB is 32 and he lost a step, not getting nearly as much separation and he is just a mediocre WR now that is getting paid 12mil a year putting up stats that someone the Packers drafted in the 3-4 round could have put up for almost free. Look how fast DJax fell off. I know they're not the same player, but speed kills for as long as it lasts.

Please don't mistake my urgency for lack of patience but like I keep posting at some point were gonna have to take a chance or risk. I feel better about AB having a few years then I do about MVS, G-MO, St. Brown or anyone else being able to produce at his pace. Steve Smith is small guy who played very well for years. Nobody works harder taking care of his body then Antonio Brown so I feel safe in this regard.

And just for the record I am not one to normally jump on risks like Antonio Brown but the fact that the Packers have ignored the position for so long other then dumpster diving puts us in this situation.

 

[sschind]

I had read a similar version, sounds an awful lot like this guy Marty I knew.

They can sanitize it however they want.

Its not sanitizing at all if there is any truth to it. I'm not saying its true at all and it may be just them blowing smoke but it would be an easy story to discredit, or at least deny, by Tomlin but I haven't seen anything to that effect.


On a side note I wonder how many fans who don't want AB because he quit wanted Josh McDaniels as the next head coach. Not saying anyone here is like that but I am sure there are some out here somewhere.

 

[brandon2348]

Since 2011 the Packers have had a Top-5 offense 4 times and a Top-10 offense another (2013). They were knocked-out of the playoffs 3 times by a Top-3 Defense, and the other 2 times our Defense was ranked 22 & 25 and couldn't stop a Top-10 offense ('11 NYG & '16 Atl).

Doesn't matter if the offense is loaded and Top-3 if the defense isn't at least in the Top-10 GB won't make noise in the playoffs. Gute needs to use Free Agency AND the draft to shore-up BOTH sides of the ball. Burning 1/3 of the cap AND a day-2 draft pick on AB isn't good use of GB's assets ($ & picks). Gute needs to effectively bring in a few FA's to plug glaring holes and hit on 2/3 of his picks to both play now AND be core players for future years, IMHO.

They can move on from Graham next year so cap allocation would be fine. Getting Brown would actually free us up to go after the "Already Fan Favorite" Hockenson that everybody just has to have so I don't know why everybody hates the move.

If we had Brown i could live with not getting Campbell or drafting a receiver with a top pick for that matter. The move would also put our younger receivers in a better position to succeed IMO.

Right now I would take 2011 or 2016 teams with a chance to win it all over what we have now. With Rodgers age there are no guarantees and we need to treat it as every year is a blessing or we will FAIL.

 

[sschind]

Your leaving out these ones though. Sorry but I do not trust the Packers to "draft" a player in the second round as significant as Brown.

Quinten Rollins
Jason Spriggs
Josh Jones
Josh Jackson
Devante Adams


Adding Brown alone does not make us a Super Bowl Champion but with the right supplemental moves along with acquiring him certainly puts us in a better position then we are in now with that potential.

Every move we make, including NOT signing Brown and using the money and draft picks elsewhere will put us in a better position than we are now. Right now we are no better off than when we played our last game and I would argue we are even worse off because we have even more holes to fill with the FAs (although some will argue we are better off without some of them)

You are proposing using the #30 pick and 13 million dollars to bring in one player at a position of need when we could use that money and draft pick to fill two positions of need with perhaps and equally impact player or even 2. It is not a question of is a person of Browns talent worth that because he is. It is a question of is the money better off spent elsewhere? Some people think it is. Its not a question of will we fill one need with one talented player because we will. It is a question of possibly filling 2 needs with two very talented players and some people think that is a better way to go.

I don't think anyone is criticizing you for having your opinion. I know I'm not. People are criticizing you because you are so adamant that this is the ONLY way the Packers have a shot at winning the SB for the next how many years.

You did say Antonio Brown alone would not would not guarantee a Super Bowl (which is smart) but you have also pretty much said that without Antonio Brown there is no way we win a Super Bowl (which is not so smart.)

 

[Mondio]

Its not sanitizing at all if there is any truth to it. I'm not saying its true at all and it may be just them blowing smoke but it would be an easy story to discredit, or at least deny, by Tomlin but I haven't seen anything to that effect.


On a side note I wonder how many fans who don't want AB because he quit wanted Josh McDaniels as the next head coach. Not saying anyone here is like that but I am sure there are some out here somewhere.

It is sanitizing when you say you didn't think you'd be able to play, but then decided you could. It's an ENTIRELY different scenario if the training staff said, AB, you likely can't play this week, but now you can. Then AB saying, I can't play,I'm not coming to work, leave me alone and I'm staying away. oh wait, I really do want to play this weekend so I've shown up for work today, put me in coach.

It's sanitized, don't kid yourself. I don't care if Tomlin told him he wasn't playing because it was absolutely the correct call. If you worked at X and told them you weren't coming in anymore then decided to come in one day, you'd likely find someone at your desk already.

 

[sschind]

It is sanitizing when you say you didn't think you'd be able to play, but then decided you could. It's an ENTIRELY different scenario if the training staff said, AB, you likely can't play this week, but now you can. Then AB saying, I can't play,I'm not coming to work, leave me alone and I'm staying away. oh wait, I really do want to play this weekend so I've shown up for work today, put me in coach.

It's sanitized, don't kid yourself. I don't care if Tomlin told him he wasn't playing because it was absolutely the correct call. If you worked at X and told them you weren't coming in anymore then decided to come in one day, you'd likely find someone at your desk already.

Did he say he wouldn't play on Sunday and then changed his mind or did he say he couldn't play on Sunday then changed his mind. Big difference. If he made up an injury to get out of practice then yeah but there is no evidence of that, at least I don't think there is.

From the way I understood it he did not think he could play on Sunday but on Saturday he felt as though he could and Tomlin said no. That's the gist of what I read. I never heard where he said he wasn't going to play anymore.

 

[Mondio]

He wasn't hurt, he took his ball and went home. Actually, he threw a ball, then walked out of practice and left the team. he skipped the walk thru the day before too. he wasn't even hurt. that was the excuse the team gave to take the heat off of him in the first place rather than say it was discipline heading into week 17. he just didn't want to show up, then thought he was just going to show up and play.

 

[brandon2348]

Every move we make, including NOT signing Brown and using the money and draft picks elsewhere will put us in a better position than we are now. Right now we are no better off than when we played our last game and I would argue we are even worse off because we have even more holes to fill with the FAs (although some will argue we are better off without some of them)

You are proposing using the #30 pick and 13 million dollars to bring in one player at a position of need when we could use that money and draft pick to fill two positions of need with perhaps and equally impact player or even 2. It is not a question of is a person of Browns talent worth that because he is. It is a question of is the money better off spent elsewhere? Some people think it is. Its not a question of will we fill one need with one talented player because we will. It is a question of possibly filling 2 needs with two very talented players and some people think that is a better way to go.

I don't think anyone is criticizing you for having your opinion. I know I'm not. People are criticizing you because you are so adamant that this is the ONLY way the Packers have a shot at winning the SB for the next how many years.

You did say Antonio Brown alone would not would not guarantee a Super Bowl (which is smart) but you have also pretty much said that without Antonio Brown there is no way we win a Super Bowl (which is not so smart.)

Well let me "clearly say" then that getting Brown is a golden opportunity that only comes around so often and I believe the timing for adding him is perfect.

Its not that I don't think we can't win a Super Bowl without Brown but it's more of a matter of getting serioulsy lucky in the draft and also have a willingness to draft differently in the draft which I won't believe until I see.

Lets not be mistaken here that Brown doesn't just fill a need but also makes us "Elite" at the WR position. It remains to be seen if the Packers can do that without trading for Brown.

 

[brandon2348]

He wasn't hurt, he took his ball and went home. Actually, he threw a ball, then walked out of practice and left the team. he skipped the walk thru the day before too. he wasn't even hurt. that was the excuse the team gave to take the heat off of him in the first place rather than say it was discipline heading into week 17. he just didn't want to show up, then thought he was just going to show up and play.

@Dante takes his ball and goes home almost every day. I don't see you calling him a quitter.

 

[Dantés]

@Dante takes his ball and goes home almost every day. I don't see you calling him a quitter.

If you want me to get the notification, you have to get my handle spelled correctly.

Now that said, if me taking my ball and going home means that you leave the conversation alone in my thread, then yes absolutely I do.